Clay Bennett's moving vans soon will box up every gadget and trinket of value belonging to the Seattle SuperSonics and begin the long trek across the Continental Divide.
Advertisement
Diesel prices being what they are, efficient packaging is absolutely required. So here's a tip for Clay:
That replica NBA championship banner and Larry O'Brien Trophy? Those symbols of the Sonics' lone title, in 1979?
Leave them in Seattle. Better yet, cancel the order. If they're already packed away, stick them in some closet where only some Ford Center phantom can find them.
Leave the originals, as planned, in Seattle, at some museum or in the KeyArena lobby or at one of Howard Schultz's Starbucks. Maybe the extra attraction will keep the coffeehouse doors open.
Oklahoma City doesn't want banners or trophies that belong elsewhere. Doesn't want them or need them.
Banners and trophies are about memories, and memories of those '79 Sonics, coached by Lenny Wilkens and led by Gus Williams and Jack Sikma, are Seattle's and have nothing to do with OKC or even Bennett.
Bennett bought the Sonics, which gave him the right to move the franchise anywhere the NBA would let him. He bought the roster and the contracts and the corporate agreements and even the brand.
But you can't buy memories, as J. Peterman discovered on Seinfeld.
The NBA in OKC is about making our own memories. That banner and trophy was won two time zones and three decades away.
So to that order, add this. Unretire the Sonic numbers that are out of commission for distinguished service.
Williams' No. 1. Nate McMillan's 10. Wilkens' 19. Spencer Haywood's 24. Fred Brown's 32. Sikma's 43.
If Seattle's next franchise wants to honor those numbers, swell. Either way, Haywood and Downtown Freddie Brown don't mean anything special to Oklahoma City other than magical names from the NBA's dusty historybook days.
If Russell Westbrook or D.J. White want to wear No. 1 or No. 43, let them. That history is there, not here. You can't load memories into a moving van.
Oh, lots of franchises have tried.
The Tennessee Titans keep retired numbers 34 and 65, even though Earl Campbell and Elvin Bethea were Houston Oilers and not, so far as we know, even country music fans.
The St. Louis Rams try to have it both ways. They hang from the rafters of the Edward Jones Dome the retired numbers of Larry Wilson, Dan Dierdorf and Jackie Smith, old stars of the St. Louis Cardinals. Those jerseys are mixed in with those of Bob Waterfield, Norm Van Brocklin, Eric Dickerson, Crazy Legs Hirsch, Tom Mack, Merlin Olsen, Deacon Jones, Jackie Slater, Tom Fears and Jack Youngblood, who anyone with a scent of NFL history will recognize as Los Angeles Rams.
That's nuts. There are no real memories of Merlin Olsen in St. Louis, other than flower commercials. No association with Bob Waterfield, other than octogenarians who recall he was married to Jane Russell in one of Hollywood's early celebrity marriages.
This is how we get to the madness of Indianapolis and Baltimore. In Indy, the Colts retain the retired numbers of seven old Baltimore warriors. And in Baltimore, the Ravens give Lenny Moore's 24 to David Pittman, Raymond Berry's 82 to Jake Nordin and Gino Marchetti's 89 to Mark Clayton.
And the utter nonsense in Los Angeles, where among the many Dodgers honored on the outfield wall are the names of Jackie Robinson, Duke Snider, Pee Wee Reese and Roy Campanella.
Has any group of ballplayers ever been more associated with a city than those Boys of Summer with Brooklyn? Yet there they sit, honored on the coast a world away from Flatbush Avenue.
Leave the honors where they belong, with the memories.
The statistical history is another thing. You can't change facts. Kevin Durant is not changing franchises. Virtually the same dreadful, but intriguing, team that played in Seattle last season will be in OKC this season.
You can't pretend otherwise. The NFL went too far when the Browns moved to Baltimore, declaring the Ravens an expansion franchise and the eventual expansion Browns to be the same franchise as the original.
That's kooky. You can't make declarations contrary to fact.
But memories are more precious than stats. More precious than records.
Memories live in the minds of the people who experienced them. Oklahoma City doesn't need duplicate banners or trophies. The search for our own will make plenty of memories.
Who really cares that OKC has an NBA team now, besides people in OKC. OKC is making it out to be like "it's their city against the world", "oooo" we have to prove everyone wrong, we have to support the NBA team even if we have to go broke. How long does the NBA have to stay in OKC to claim success, 5yrs? 10yrs? 40yrs? I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter because I am hear to say, most people don't care, and if you ask Seattle, they'll tell you, THE NBA DEFINITELY DOESN'T CARE EITHER... as for Fantasy BasketbALL, I will be drafting Durant around 35th, is that too high?
Go Huskers!
Amen to this article. The Sonics move to OKC isn't the first time I have been witness to a Pro team leaving. I am from Houston. Bud Adams should have been tarred,feathered and ridden out of town way before he left Houston. But that's another story. What I have learned is that the University I went to should receive ALL of my support. I know that (now the booing starts)The University of Texas will never leave Austin. Be careful OKC Bennett could be like Al Davis- move to LA to Oakland to LA to Oakland...
Remember pride in a city comes from the quality of life for all, not from a bunch of spoiled jocks. Good luck in the upcoming seasons. Oh that's right, your new star comes from UT. Hook'em Horns
Well, Dallas is a large city that doesnt need okc fans to survive. How far away is Dallas, 5 hrs? Thats really far. Thats the distance from Sac to LA, and we have a hateful blood rivalry, not support!
Ryan, sorry if you misread my post and I sincerely apologize. It was Mr. Tramel in an earlier column that said when the team moves, OKC shouldn't feel guilty because it is "just a business". This was after an earlier column of his where he said Seattle should be doing everything it can to fight to save their team. I agree with you completely. I know there is not just a sense of community ownership in a team, but a real, tangible "ownership". Granted they don't legally own it but they do have a stake in it none the less, it is the public tax dollars that subsidize the arenas and stadiums in which they play (even though 5 NBA arenas have 0% public financing, 9 have 100%, and all of the others are a mix, at a low of 3% on up). The fans pay good money to see the games in the arena they helped pay for, they buy the merchendize etc, etc.
I a big fan of college sports, but as far as Professional sports are concerned, I question most of it's legitimacy (due to money, drugs, commissioners, referees, etc). Being from Lincoln, I can say that I have no side on this matter, but my take on this whole Sonics move is the following: 1) Bennett is a weasle (but that's nothing new), 2) the NBA is corrupt(a new commissioner should come in and clean things up, it's become too predictable), 3) why would some cities allow such businesses to threaten them ("build us these arenas or else"?). I agree that businesses have the right to move if they want to (it's their business), but do it the right way. I just hope that if the Sonics pull this crap again in OKC, they better hope it's "sooner" rather than later, because it's harder for a city to let go of something that has established a history (supported or not). Lastly, I do enjoy the NBA for Fantasy Basketball, because you don't feel as bad when they cheat your team of a win ;-)
I am big fan of college sports, but as far as Professional sports are concerned, I question most of it's legitimacy (due to money, drugs, commissioners, referees, etc). Being from Lincoln, I can say that I have no side on this matter, but my take on this whole Sonics move is the following: 1) Bennett is a weasle (but that's nothing new), 2) the NBA is corrupt(a new commissioner should come in and clean things up, it's become too predictable), 3) why would some cities allow such businesses to threaten them ("build us these arenas or else"?). I agree that businesses have the right to move if they want to (it's their business), but do it the right way. I just hope that if(when) the Sonics(NBA) pull this crap again in OKC, they better hope it's sooner rather than later, because it's harder for a city to let go of something that has established a history (supported or not). Lastly, I do enjoy the NBA for Fantasy Basketball, because you don't feel as bad when they cheat your team out of a win ;-)
You're too funny TU. What are you going to do all fall? Most Okies will remember how much Chris Paul enjoyed living here and playing here, same with Byron Scott. BOOHOO Seattle.............BOOHOO.
here it is oklahopeless, NO PRO ATHLETE WILL WANT TO LIVE IN A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY, Player to agent: "Get me off of this team and out of this god awful place, trade me anywhere, I dont care just get me out of here"
First off I know I'll probably catch flack for posting on this board being that I was born and raised in the burbs of Seattle. Trust me when I say that Howard Shultz is just as much of a villian in our eyes as Clay Bennett. It's people like Larry (posted below) that make me absolutely sick. Maybe to him the NBA is just a business, I wonder how he'd feel if the team he grew up rooting for and watching was being ripped away from him. 41 years of history is a lot to just give up on some busted business deal.
Of everything that has happened the worst is this idea of "shared history". Mr. Tramel hit it right on the head by saying you can't buy memories, I couldn't agree more. Those are OUR memories and OUR championship title and OUR retired numbers. Just because Clay Bennett bought the team he didn't earn the right to steal OUR memories. Seattle will have an NBA franchise again...a new Supersonics and that team, and only that team will have the right to be called the 1979 NBA champions. Earn your own memories! OKC already hijacked OUR team, at least let us keep OUR history and memories.
What a hideous and totally wrong attitude. We now have this great and historic franchise as OURS, and should be proud of the history and the trophies. The team that EARNED them is now here, and it's insulting to that team and it's players, past and present, to just throw them away. It's also totally unneeded. This isn't an expansion team, it's a team with a rich history, and we should embrace and support it.
I love what they've done in St. Louis, where the Ring Of Fame honors the great players in Rams history AND the best of St. Louis. No reason that the greats of Sonics history be forgotten, Oklahoma City fans who now love this team should learn about and celebrate that history, not just throw it away because it happened somewhere else.
Think LA Dodger fans don't care about Jackie Robinson and Duke Snider?
You can not move history, no one is ever going to talk about how OKC won the 79 season. No one is ever going to talk about Paytom, Kemp, Wilkins, Haywoodor Allen playing in OKC. Those players in the Hall of Fame are never going to have there bio's changed to read OKC Sonics. For years it will be a reminder to everyone how dishonest Bennett got your team. As a Sonic fan and season ticketholder, I don't want the NBA back in Seattle ever and will work to make sure they never come back. Thanks Bennett and OKC for teaching us how your folks in OKC and the NBA do business.
Hi Mason, the disconnect was straight forward if you read the rest of the post. In your opinion, 2 teams that MIGHT be available = plenty? Inconsistencies abound, maybe instead of a logic course, you might want to invest in a good dictionary.
This is one area where I think OKCers and Seattleites generally agree. The OKC team should and would like to form it's own history. The truth is, history is one grey area in these franchise moves like this. I mean, sports historians will always say "the Seattle Supersonics, now the OKC whatevers won.. " etc. Generally speaking, if you leave the name and colors in Seattle, the semantics of how the history is handled is generally just that. However putting a phoney title banner in your rafters is not going to make OKC fans feel like they won a title. More than likely it is going to make them fell hollow and strange, maybe cheap. Find some class Bennett or Stern. I know that is a stretch, but look at the reality here.
Larry, how is what Jess said necessarily indicative of a disconnect? Charlotte and Memphis both have NBA teams, and neither is doing particularly well. They might be available for Seattle. In short, NBA teams can be available without expansion. There's no disconnect. Also, Tramel is being perfectly consistent when he says Seattle has a right to fight for their team, and then says they should get over it. Similarly, someone could say to you, "Larry, you have a right to say want you want, but you should really shut up," and there's no inconsistency. I think you need to take a basic logic course.
Cody, feel free to ignore my posts and not respond to them in any way (but I guess it is hard to tell others not to without responding yourself). Also feel free to refute ANY of the "same complaints over and over" that I have made. Since my opinions and conclusions have been based primarily on the self-conflicting statements of the people involved, they have no one to blame but themselves. Few people have any attempted it, other than to further spin the half-truths and lies of the Mayor's office, the Chamber and Bennett and Co.
Jess, please explain what you wrote...there seems to be a disconnect: "There will be plenty of NBA teams available...And I agree that waiting for an expansion team, when the majority of the owners are against it is just plain stupid." Where are the "plenty" of teams going to be coming from if there is no expansion? If there IS going to be expansion, why not put the expansion team here? That IS what folks like Jill have agreed they wanted all along (but are more than willing to take a team from another city to get what they want).
Seems like the Lincoln quote is better applied to Mr. Tramel, the writer of this article. In an earlier one he said that Seattle had every right and was justified in fighting to keep it's team there...then in another one a short time later, implied the Seattle fans need to give up and get over it, the NBA was just a business after all. Here he seems to contradict himself in the same article. Oh well...
My personal hope is to see them called the Oklahoma City Sonics. Then I would wish they become a dynasty to remind us locals what our Washington politicians did to us. -- Also Jay in Moore, Dennis Johnson was the MVP of the 1979 finals which was a great moment in my life. So up yours.
First--Seattle fans are sounding more and more like OSU fans did after Jenni Carlson dared to reveal why Bobby Reid wasn't starting at QB.
Second--I agree that the Oklahoma (City?) Whatevers have no business or reason to latch on to the history and traditions of the Seattle Super Sonics. Different city, different team name. A whole different franchise in every way but the technical one.
Third--IMO, it's OK when the franchise moves to another city but keeps the same name to continue to honor the old players who played for the same team in the original city. LA Dodgers are the logical continuation of the Brooklyn Dodgers, while the Baltimore Orioles are not the logical continuation of the St. Louis Browns. The Used-to-be-Sonics are in the same situation as the Used-to-be-Browns (baseball Browns) were when they started up in Baltimore--a "new" team in a completely new city.
Bottom line--the team should leave everything connected to the Sonics in Seattle for Seattle to do with as it will.
david: no I am not perfect (no one is) but I wasn't the one in court, was I? You are correct, Clay DID buy the team legally but it was his other actions that have to make you wonder, if he is willing to do everything he did in Seattle, chances are he is going to be willing to do the same things here in a few years (hometown or not), as others point out he is a businessman and the NBA is just a business. As long as this paper and people in these threads keep spinning, spreading half-truths and out right lies....Some are ignorant of the facts and don't know any better...Some know the facts and ignore them anyway....So you better believe I am going to do what I can to correct them when I can with the truth. If you are the same david that has posted in other treads, you must be interested in the truth and doing the right thing (that david often brought God into the mix).
Mason...Mark Cuban has more money than God, and could care less whether a few Mavs fans in OKC adopt a new team. The Mavs are a hobby for the billionaire playboy we speak of, not a business he relies upon to generate revenue.
J, I don't disagree with you but there is a sense of community ownership with sports teams, Mr. Tramel had an earlier article stressing it is only a business and Seattle fans should get over it. IF that earlier article is true and what some have posted in these threads is true (that Bennett didn't steal anything, Bennett bought and paid for the team etc) then Mr. Tramel and the other writers need to stop calling it "your new NBA team", the team belongs to Bennett et al, it doesn't belong to the City or the fans (as Mr. Tramel and others kept pointing out about Seattle). It's just a business.
Larry, you're hilarious. If it were seattle's team, they would own it. Since the city and residents don't own it, I love how people get off on thinking something is 'theirs'. Morons, if you want the team to stay, buy it yourselves. Green Bay did this. Maybe if you actually supported the team, it wouldn't have been sold in the first place.
Mark Cuban didn't want a team in OKC because it would cut into his profit margin. He didn't really care whether the Sonics stayed in Seattle or moved somewhere else, just as long as the move didn't cost him Mavs fans in Oklahoma. Find yourself a new hero.
Hey Berry, Jackie Robinson's #42 is on the outfield wall of EVERY major league baseball team. It's been retired by MLB in recognition of his contributions to baseball. Sure, the Dodgers had it on their wall in L.A. before that happened, but I don't think it's fair to ding them for having Robinson's number in the outfield these days. I mean, he sure didn't play for the Rangers or Athletics or Yankees, and yet they honor him.
I don't even want this team in this city since it was stolen so I'm a Dallas Mavericks fan not an OKC Whatever because Mark Cuban was willing to speak up and say no to this stealing of a team.On another note HOOK 'EM HORNS in the Red River Shootout
Derrick -- Seattle had every opportunity to keep the team. It's over -- the citizens and the city government obviously didn't want the team. Give it up. (On another note: Dennis Johnson belongs to Boston -- not Seattle. And yes, I know he played for the Sonics.)
I agree. Keep everything related to the history of the Seattle Supersonics in Seattle. We'll start our own history to which I will be a witness in my own reserved season seats. Can't wait for tipoff.
I agree that everything should be left in Seattle, not out of guilt but I believe the Sonics will be back. Seattle got what they wanted and this probably spurred the interest to get moving on upgrading or replacing Key Arena. Seattle can pay off the debt with Clay's money and then work on an NBA approved arena. There will be plenty of NBA teams available and Seattle will be a lot better market than they are currently in. Plus with the team relo to OKC, it forced Microsoft boy and others to put up their money. Seattle will have a team in the near future with the same name and a shinny new Key Arena. This is what Stern wanted all along and I think he had to make his point clear with the move of the current Sonics. And I agree that waiting for an expansion team, when the majority of the owners are against it is just plain stupid. Nothing good happens when you wait around for someone to offer it to you.
Larry you are so full of ****... You are going to cry foul about what went down, yet I can bet my house, all 903 of the videogames I own, all 600+ DVD's I own, that you have done something wrong in your life, and not just slap on the hand **** either. So don't throw stones at ANYONE until your **** is clean itself. EVERY human does wrong things, the funny thing though is, Clay bought the damn team with cash, and last I recall, that was legal.
Vegas? They're 3rd or 4th in line for an expansion team at best. And maybe if everyone quits responding to Larry in any way, he will attach his parasitic annoyances onto another subject since this one is getting very tired. He really doesn't have much to say except the same complaints over and over. If he wants to complain, he can talk to himself.
Larry's an idiot. Clay didn't steal anyone's team. It was for sale, he purchased it, and moved it. Sounds like stealing to me. Some people just aren't going to get over this for a long, long time.
The team formerly known as the Seattle SuperSoncics have moved to a new city. All of the records, history and memories have not and will not. Next year's (and the years that follow) Kevin Durant trading cards will all have his rookie stats listed as SEATTLE, as will all the official record books. The fact remains that those stats were made when the team was officially located in SEATTLE not OKC. Make no mistake, Bennett owns the team, OK, OKC and the citizens do not. The franchise would never have gone to San Jose, however, there is a real possiblity they will be playing in Las Vegas in the not so distant future. Viva! Las Vegas!
Absolutely. The NBA franchise in OKC should have its own name, colors, banners, trophies, retired numbers, mascot, etc. It's an insult to Seattle and OKC to pretend that Clay Bennett's team is the historic heir to the Seattle Supersonics.
"'The NBA in OKC is about making our own memories.' Too bad we didn't insist on doing that, waiting for an expansion team." First of all, Larry, we know you don't like basketball, or at least have never been in the Ford Center, so I assume you don't like it. Secondly, you apparently don't know how hard Bennett and Cornett tried to get an NBA expansion franchise and for how long. Ask David Stern why he calls Cornett "the mayor who won't go away". Perhaps there's a reason OKC came to mind when the Hornets needed a place to play. I doubt many of us wanted Seattle's team. But, since it was probably going to San Jose if Bennett didn't buy it, we'd now be watching the "San Jose Sonics" and still trying to talk Stern into an expansion team. There's a good chance the Sonics would not be in Seattle regardless. That doesn't mean we cannot feel bad about what happened. Unlike Barry, I do feel some guilt. I always hoped a deal would be brokered where we got an expansion team, but it sounds like the other owners nixed that idea. What has happened, has happened. So, let's move on. I agree completely with Barry, I do not want to see a Sonics' jersy, banner or trophy in the Ford Center. There should be no retired numbers. Not out of guilt do I feel that way, but out of respect for what happened in Seattle for 41 years and not in Oklahoma City. Yes, "you cannot buy memories", nor should you try.
There seems to be some strings attached by the PBC to Seattle keeping the Sonics' name, etc. in the Memorandum of Understanding that give Schultz incentives to drop his lawsuit:
Here's a excerpt from an ESPN Blog by Henry Abbott (there's a link to the actual MOU document (PDF) within the column) that explains the conditions:
"Intellectual Property
First of all, Seattle can keep all their intellectual property (the logo, name and the like, but apparently not the banners, retired numbers, and team history) without any strings attached, if they do several difficult things:
A "new team" must move to a renovated KeyArena.
Howard Schultz's lawsuit has to be gone.
What we now call the Sonics must be ensconced in Oklahoma City.
The NBA has to approve all of the above.
If all that happens, the next sentence makes clear, the new owners in Seattle can have all the intellectual property rights.
Until then, the team in Oklahoma keeps them, and presumably any revenue that comes from them."
"Leave the honors where they belong, with the memories. The statistical history is another thing. You can't change facts." But didn't you just say that the Banners and trophies and the championship belonged back in Seattle? Those are facts and history too. Please make up your mind.
"Oklahoma City doesn't want banners or trophies that belong elsewhere. Doesn't want them or need them." But we have no problem taking another City's team huh? Wouldn't want any pesky reminders around that might trigger some guilt? Pitiful.
8 things to know about your new NBA team 07/06/2008 1 . When does the season start, and how long is it? The NBA season tips off Oct. 31, with most teams hosting games the first two or three days of the...
NBA in OKC: How good will squad be next season? 07/06/2008 Oklahoma City has been down this NBA road before, ready to graciously welcome a team that will hit town with low expectations and lots of question marks....
50
Go Huskers!
Remember pride in a city comes from the quality of life for all, not from a bunch of spoiled jocks. Good luck in the upcoming seasons. Oh that's right, your new star comes from UT. Hook'em Horns
Of everything that has happened the worst is this idea of "shared history". Mr. Tramel hit it right on the head by saying you can't buy memories, I couldn't agree more. Those are OUR memories and OUR championship title and OUR retired numbers. Just because Clay Bennett bought the team he didn't earn the right to steal OUR memories. Seattle will have an NBA franchise again...a new Supersonics and that team, and only that team will have the right to be called the 1979 NBA champions. Earn your own memories! OKC already hijacked OUR team, at least let us keep OUR history and memories.
I love what they've done in St. Louis, where the Ring Of Fame honors the great players in Rams history AND the best of St. Louis. No reason that the greats of Sonics history be forgotten, Oklahoma City fans who now love this team should learn about and celebrate that history, not just throw it away because it happened somewhere else.
Think LA Dodger fans don't care about Jackie Robinson and Duke Snider?
why would Clay want to have an out clause in the contract with OKC if he is so dedicated??
Second--I agree that the Oklahoma (City?) Whatevers have no business or reason to latch on to the history and traditions of the Seattle Super Sonics. Different city, different team name. A whole different franchise in every way but the technical one.
Third--IMO, it's OK when the franchise moves to another city but keeps the same name to continue to honor the old players who played for the same team in the original city. LA Dodgers are the logical continuation of the Brooklyn Dodgers, while the Baltimore Orioles are not the logical continuation of the St. Louis Browns. The Used-to-be-Sonics are in the same situation as the Used-to-be-Browns (baseball Browns) were when they started up in Baltimore--a "new" team in a completely new city.
Bottom line--the team should leave everything connected to the Sonics in Seattle for Seattle to do with as it will.
I couldn't care less about NBA in OKC or Seattle.
As for Larry...I think Abraham Lincoln says it best: " 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
Here's a excerpt from an ESPN Blog by Henry Abbott (there's a link to the actual MOU document (PDF) within the column) that explains the conditions:
"Intellectual Property
First of all, Seattle can keep all their intellectual property (the logo, name and the like, but apparently not the banners, retired numbers, and team history) without any strings attached, if they do several difficult things:
A "new team" must move to a renovated KeyArena.
Howard Schultz's lawsuit has to be gone.
What we now call the Sonics must be ensconced in Oklahoma City.
The NBA has to approve all of the above.
If all that happens, the next sentence makes clear, the new owners in Seattle can have all the intellectual property rights.
Until then, the team in Oklahoma keeps them, and presumably any revenue that comes from them."
myespn.go.com/nba/truehoop