Immigration battle heats up
Immigration battle heats up

Where can I find the story? ............... You didn't just call me a name, did you?

you must have missed the story of the man who was illigal and had 3 out of his 4 kids serving in IRAQ! do YOU> I think not,,they almost deported him , you sick witch! guess what they looked retarded and had to try to get him a green card,,I support blacks who wont serve and will keep thier money from racist whites, who dont appreciate us and dont have fair laws,, I will also keep consumption down, to punish!

I just spoke to Specialist Tommy Thresher from our local Army recruiting office. He looked up the regulations. Only US citizens and LEGAL PERMANENT residents, who read and write English fluently, can join our military. He mentioned they do require proof, also.

allision did u support the iraq war as most amerians did? I did not ,I was correct, and on this issue most ameiricans are again wrong,sadly it will cost us again,whos gonna fight the fake wars? lots of illigals in iraq right now, good enuff to fight for ya but not to have citizenship? wierd stuff

allison, that is not reality, noncitizens serve in the military, so your opinion is obsolete.

Keith, I do believe that only citizens may serve in our Armed Forces. There IS an issue of loyalty otherwise.

again you are ill informed, caucasian is an outdated classification, it refers to people from regions or originating from regions, from europe to india, and range in hair , eye and skin color, from white to dark brown! either way that means most caucasians are brown, not white! Science has thus concluded that those terms are outdated. race is not scientific,it socially constructed , meaning made up, fiction and such,you can be racist towards others if you believe in the concept of race,and dont realize that thier is one race. Most Americans dont get that.jan you do make good points, mexican vets were discriminated against by law in this country, we dont have a good history of how we treat all people, so forgive me if i dont trust our methods , are our beliefs. ok

And before you call me on it I should say, Caucasian, Asian and Negro (not politically correct but I would hate to be called on not attributing the proper terminology to the races). The race is defined by genetic markers and physical characteristics which do not include skin tone. Skin tone is not agreed upon to be a racial feature although most blacks do have black skin there are some that are lilly white and there are some Caucasians that are darker than some black people that I know. There are also certain diseases which cause people to lose pigment in their skin like vitiligo and albinoism and those can be seen in many races, cultures and ethnicities. That is why skin tone is no longer used to 100% identify varying races. Mexicans are Caucasians so how can I be racially inflammatory against a piece of my race? It is about right and wrong and the right way is the ONLY way to maintain any kind of civil obedience and order.

None of this is about race Keith, last time I checked, Middle Eastern nor Hispanic were a race. Black, White, Asian and that's about it. There are cultures, there are ethnicities and that's about it. So, if you know so much please stop telling us that we're racist. We aren't racist, but we are realistic and the country cannot continue to support the illegal aliens and their "families".

The truth hurts, race card is a real reason to why you feel the way you do. Not loving others as you love yourselves is also. I have great reasons to why we should enforce our laws , I am not for open borders. I just do not agree with how the issues is conflated and how we are going about it. The simple fact is that if you are married to an american , or have an american relative , or were born here you are an American. The only thing that makes Us ALL Americans is that we were born here. Also if you serve in military and or have family members serving , you should be automatically made an American. JUst look at history, blacks were not allowed to vote! why cause of the race card, was it right ,NO! America will again figure it out, I just wish we did not have to get a black eye, doing things in an unjust unfair and hypocritical uneven way. IF you want the solutions to the problem , let someone with no denial write the laws. The Bile and what jesus taught instruct me and I dont think its right to punish Americans and children ,by sending their families back to Mexico , in many cases they dont speak spanish and or cant survive or wont have the life they can here. Stop further immigration by all means , but to take away Americans rights is just like saying that only whites have rights, as it has been for too long in America. I know to much, you cant fool me. There are good reasons to limit lots of activities in America, but you dont do it by destroying the true intent of America. WE have overcame a lot in this country and eventally we will get it fixed, with good leadership. unfortunatly we keep electing rednecks.

Keith, families don't have to be broken up. Any responsible and loving parent would take their children wherever they were going to live.

as always,the race card,the bible or insults.if you dont have a good reason that covers all sides of the debate of why its ok to break the law then let it go.

rhetoric, typo,lol

mark, you are amuzing. your words ring hollow , your rethoric is empty and your logic nonexistent.And Frankly you make me laugh. Again Scapegoating wont solve our problems, isnt that what we are trying to do? Makes a rational person like myself question your motives, I think its bigotry 101, no more no less. Oklahoma is only going to hurt herself, remeber Oklahoma was set aside for native americans, so if you think about it , the law was broken and written in a bad spirit.You can enforce the law , without breaking up families , like our ansestors did to Indians, jews, slaves, and now mexican, tearing children from thier families, satan would be proud of us.so sick, I pray jesus sends all of you straight to hell, were you belong, and trust me he will!

Quote: "This amnesty will give citizenship to only 1.1 to 1.3 million illegal aliens. We will secure the borders henceforth. We will never again bring forward another amnesty bill like this."

-- Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy on the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

1. The Federal Immigration Reform Act of 1986 made employing undocumented workers illegal, but the federal government regularly underfunded enforcement. So US citizens willing to break the law by hiring undocumented workers profited from illegal activities.
2. The undocumented people hired by the US citizens also broke the law.
3. Why does this law only choose to punish those assisting one group of "law breakers"?
4. Those who are afraid the country may change seem to prefer focusing on half of the people who broke the law, but fail to hold the other half accountable.
5. The fears written in the paragraphs below mirror things written about any group of aliens that has ever entered the country: as a group they are more criminal than the rest of the country; they spawn and encourage illegal activity; their cultural difference is disturbing; the only way to manage them is to assure swift and severe consequences for unpermitted acts. These ideas are no more true for the current group than they were for the Germans, Italians, Irish, and other groups previously targeted.
6. Unless an author can cite a reliable source for the reported numbers, the numbers reported are merely opinions, not facts.
7. A meaningful lesson from the Bible charges Christians with the responsibility to stand up for the poor, the widowed, the orphaned, and the alien.
8. Civil disobedience has a long, honored history in our country - people who have stood up for their beliefs and were willing to go to jail for them have gained our national respect: Thoreau, Parks and King, to name a few.
9. Human beings have the ability to rationalize any behavior - and the ultimate evil results when we choose to look at evil and call it good.
10. Christ taught us to discern the value of the tree by looking at its fruit. The fruit of this law is: divided families; increased social intolerance; criminalization of compassion - punishing those who see a "human being" where others choose only to see a "criminal."
11. The magnificence of the first amendment is that anyone can say what they believe and still be an American - the framers of the Constitution believed unrestricted political dialog insured the nation's well-being.
12. Our nation learned during the Viet Nam War that our soldiers were hurt by the dishonor heaped on them by protesters who did not differentiate between the war they hated and the soldiers fighting in the war.
13. Although we learned that lesson, and all sides now make efforts to recognize the soldiers are patriots serving their country, some have reinterpreted the lesson to require nothing short of total agreement with their own "patriotic" ideal - but that is not an American ideal - that is an ideal of a dictatorship, a totalitarian regime, or fascist state.
14. To live up to our national heritage, we must value and respect each other's opinions.
15. Those of us who are Christian must also value and respect the teachings of our leader.
16. When the two conflict, the most patriotic thing to do is to point that out - by civil disobedience, if necessary.
17. The willingness to risk jail for important truths represents part of what made this nation great.
18. Failure to respect each other, unwillingness to enter into social dialog, choosing to resort to name calling, and refusal to try to see the other's side, all reflect the unpatriotic actions tearing this nation apart.
19. We can continue to protect the heritage we were given, or we can choose to let is slip away by belittling those who don't agree with us.
20. Ultimately, THAT fundamental choice decides the national legacy our children and grandchildren will receive.

Hart-Celler Act hearings 1965 Quote: Senate immigration subcommittee chairman Edward Kennedy (D-MA.) reassured his colleagues and the nation with the following: "First, our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually. Under the proposed bill, the present level of immigration remains substantially the same ... Secondly, the ethnic mix of this country will not be upset ... Contrary to the charges in some quarters, [the bill] will not inundate America with immigrants from any one country or area, or the most populated and deprived nations of Africa and Asia ... In the final analysis, the ethnic pattern of immigration under the proposed measure is not expected to change as sharply as the critics seem to think." Sen. Kennedy concluded by saying, "The bill will not flood our cities with immigrants. It will not upset the ethnic mix of our society. It will not relax the standards of admission. It will not cause American workers to lose their jobs." (U.S. Senate, Subcommittee on Immigration and Naturalization of the Committee on the Judiciary, Washington, D.C., Feb. 10, 1965. pp. 1-3.)

Wow, the Internet and a computer in the hands of some people is a very dangerous thing. Oh and nice thoughtful post Dave but I would think that the illegals entering is higher than 500k.

Years ago everyone wanted population control in the US.Now we allow in around 2,000,000 legal immigrants a year plus their extended families,(Mother,Father,Sister,Brother and their children.)That adds millions more.Then you have the 12,000,000 illegal Aliens that Congress wants to give Amnesty to.If that's granted,then you have their extended families,which will add millions more.Then you have the 500,000 that still cross our southern border illegally each year.The US current population is 300,000,000,not to long ago we exported our surplus food,now we import half.Some studies show the US population at 450,000,000 by the year 2050.Has anyone ask their Congressman and Senators what quality of life our Children and Grand Children will have? Social Security,in 1996 the Social Security Administration signed an agreement with Mexico that will give Social Security payments to the 12 million illegal aliens once they are granted amnesty, total cost over 50 billion dollars.This type information is at both the FAIR and the Heritage Foundation Web sites.Add the billions the American tax payer pays for illegal aliens free medical care,food stamps,rent assistance,translators at schools and we have a ticking time bomb.Amnesty for 12 million illegal aliens and endless immigration is not the answer.I encourage everyone to write their Congressman and Senators and ask them what the total cost to the American tax payer will be if they grant amnesty to 12 million illegal aliens,after all you and I and our children will foot the bill for their decision! "

Keith,what other laws do you feel it's OK to break,just because you don't agree with them?

keith....not verry bright at three a.m are you,do you even read what you write?no kidding there are black gangs, duh.but the point is you stand up for illegals and since it is known that the mexican 13 rapist and murders cross illegaly into our borders everyday and you aprove of them.i am starting to think maybe i was right.i bet you did march in may.dude you are an air head.every thing you write is pure bull cr@p.the truth is your brain is a wmd.dumba$$.your easy lol.

mark.. its called not all people are nice 101 dipshit~~!!

mark.. its called not all people are nice 101 dipshit~~!!

mark i bet you still believe that iraq had wmds, and that saddam attacked us on 911,your the type thats dumb as hell, not I.

mark you have to much stupidity to address at once, its amazing how dumb you are. there are black gangs and they are not illigal, so again you scapegoat as most do and at same time show your ignorance and bigotry, so all you words have zero credability , cause they have no facts or logic behind, those social issues. your the real traitor to the constitution ,the truth , logic , and realism, sadly enuff ,you are a typical ignorant bigot.again scapegoating makes things worse, what dont you get about that. nothing you said makes sense. I submit get a brain,please, mark have a nice day

mark i am not on your side and neither is God, take a hint, as if you are not a sinner. not all gangs are illigal,,boy you are real dumb. i mean real dumb, there are black gangs are the illigal,,mark repeat after me i mark am a retarded bigot,

keith..... its called not all illegals are nice 101 dude!

keith.......and as far as being on my side.....i dont really think you have to worrie your self about that since you made the statment you stand up for illegals.that means that you dont mind the mexican 13 gangs or any of the ones that will commit rape and or murder sneaking into our country.standing up for illegals you will have to include these as well since these are illegals that will cross with your blessing as well.that means harm to the U.S people and that is really called a trader.my side.........you are not.

keith,WOW...you are right, i am so sorry.i said you march instead of they march and your action instaed of there. got cought up.so sorry.and far as the name calling,your the man. it hurt deep.moment to recover........and why would i say a white with an suv were drug dealers unless i seen it. and if i did i would call it like it is.what i have seen is alot of hispanics driving big nice new suv's and trucks and what led me to beleive illegals is maybe the fact that they could not speak english and were all parents at the school needing interpiters. ya maybe i am wrong for asuming but you sorta gota put two and two together.we are having sorta of a problem here or this discussion would not be taking place.and as far as breaking up families why would you put your child in a situation like that.i am thinking if i am here illegaly i am not going to take a chance on putting my child in jepordy.No, illegals are not wanted by the people. just by big buisness and some small greedy jerks. if they were you would have way more people with your veiws.immoral and wrong?? just how many laws is it o.k to break to be here in the name of illegals? stealing I.D's,no driver license,no insurance.i watched an hispanic girl t-bone another girls car because she could not read the yeild on green.yep,no license and no insurance.the other girls first car she just bought with her saved money.if your on the same side why would you condone the huge influx of illegals coming trough the back door instead of the front were the can be reconized.thats why you go to the front door at someones house and knock.more than not when sombody tries to go through the back door its not for the right reasons.i am just saying AGAIN,come through the front door of america and i will bend over backwards to help if i can no matter what country your form........... jack a$$.couldnt let you have all the fun with name calling

mark, your comments ,show the bigotry. Just cause they are driving nice cars ,? wtf , you dont know how much they make ,how hard they work . have you ever heard the saying its not how much you make that makes you wealthy its what you SAVE! personal finace 101,dude this is why I say the things I do, I have a low tolerance for stupidity. nazis broke up families , these laws do the same, yes I said nazi like ,no exactly nazi, but in some ways similar. Tell me that you realize that many whites who have nice trucks are major drug dealers, please ,cause its also true!And dont adress me as if I am mexican or illigal,you arrogant prick! My spanish ancestors on my moms side, settled northern new mexico and colorado at 1600 thats 407 years as american blood, my anglo ie german side english side , has been over here way less time,! we brought columbus over here, cause he had no BOAT!ie captain of santa maria,I am just a person who believes in what the constitution and the bible stand for.Illigals are wanted , or else they would not be solicited , dipshit, they are just unwanted by jeoulous people and bigoted people, who support wars based on lies and policies that are consequential to Americans. I look at whole picture b efore judging other> I realize the realistic concerns, but the way we are going about it is immoral and wrong. I am sure you supported the trail of tears, no genocide there, so therefore your better than hitler , no,it was genocide, I can admit that my spanish and other imperialistic ancestors did the same, dont glorify history. and dont justify current evils with your minimizations of what is happening.scapegoating makes things worse,look at iraq, they did not attack us,bin ladden did,yet we scapegoated saddam ,and bam things are worse for us. make the same mistake domestically, wow, not wise! well hope you enjoy paying massive taxes, cause that is what your hate fear and lies will bring. sad, I am on your side, and my countries side, that is why I am a patriotic American~God bless us is we do good, God curse us when we do evil!PEACE JUSTICE MERCY

keith,your not making since.the law is nothing like nazi.the land is nothing like nazi.we are not invading mexico or rounding up hispanics and killing them.we may not like whats going on with bush and his war but that is no reason to sit back and let the country be invaded by mexico.you say they do the low paying jobs americans wont.but yet i see them driving verry nice suv's and trucks.can you work for minimum wage and afford these.i cant.i may not like whats going on outside our country but i dont like whats happenig in our country either.when i see hispanics waving there flag and telling the americans to leave the u.s i think we are having a problem.once a neighborhood is taken over by hispanics americans are not welcomed in there own country.how can you have tens of thousands march on the u.s country and think americans wont have a problem with it.you threten to march and walk out on jobs to teach us a lesson.your actions are well read.come trough the front door and be reconized do not break in the back door.bottom line illegal's are unwanted guest.

DAVe. so much for freedom of religion and freedom of conviction. that bill is nazi like, hateful and sick. Thats the problem ,since when did our great land become , nazi germany, and when did the flag turn into the nazi symobol? sad sad sad, sounds like the laws hitler passed to round up the jews,,so sad

DAVe. so much for freedom of religion and freedom of conviction. that bill is nazi like, hateful and sick. Thats the problem ,since when did our great land become , nazi germany, and when did the flag turn into the nazi symobol? sad sad sad, sounds like the laws hitler passed to round up the jews,,so sad

DAVe. so much for freedom of religion and freedom of conviction. that bill is nazi like, hateful and sick. Thats the problem ,since when did our great land become , nazi germany, and when did the flag turn into the nazi symobol? sad sad sad, sounds like the laws hitler passed to round up the jews,,so sad

The legal path is not really just ,fair or effective. Its set up to be slow , so that we can exploit these hard working people. In the same way corporations dont have to pay taxes when they outsourse. When we fight against exploitiations of others, we fight against it , when they come after us! Justifications for the wrongs America is doing, cause we continue to repeat it over and over again. We are seen as an occupying force by the people of Iraq, and people want to wave the what dont you understand about the word illigal, well what dont you ? Yes America does right , thanks to liberal ideologies, that uplift the masses and stand up for all. Im glad i stand up for illigals, I know they dont make the laws, and I know our social ills are not thier fault. When everyone admits it, we can solve the problem , reasonably, logically and with family values.

at some point in the future it will be inevitable to clear up this immigration issue with a path to citizenship. my "conservative" friends told me i was wrong way back in 2003-2004 for saying we were stupid for going into irag instead of Pakistan and Afghanisthan. society and the world has leaders and followers. thankfully in our democracy each is afforded an equal voice. the downside to that is that sometimes it takes longer to do what is logical and right (ending slavery, womens rights, crushing the genocide in europe in the 30's and 40's, civil rights, fighting the cold war, getting out of vietnam, getting out of iraq, etc.) i'll be patient. logic sometimes takes the long road, but will eventually prevail and justice and pragmatism will be done.

Keith,if I'm not mistaken Oklahoma just passed LB 1804?

Jesus crossed the rio grand, signs of the end times, peoples hearts will wax cold towards each other,and people will be lovers of lies, ie, iraq war and immigration issuses, I guess it should not suprise me ,Satan is alive and well in the heart of man, me for one will follow christ. May jesus remove the blinders that satan has put on you God mocking COnservatives of mans principles, and satans ways of greed war hate and fear. The End is Near, PEACE justic and mercy and love for others , amen,in Jesus name I pray is all i have to say AMEN,ill keep praying for our country ,so that one day we will turn from OUR EVIL WAYS , REPENT ie say sorry for genocides and racism and murder of others and thievery, and slavery and all the evils we do, and then God will heal our land,but it wont happen cause of people like rightwingers ,who think they are so good,when they support doctrines of devils, amen!

Cost of wars based on lies 12 billion per month, and you really thing illigals are the blame,lol..again look in your mirror, yes you are more to blame than them, illogical,scapegoating will never solve the problems of mankinds foolishness and lack of love for each other ,or at least the TRUTH! you keep selling and believing misinformation, you know not what you do, You are the ones destroying our country with the scapegoating! again look in the mirror!

I think I will stay in Oklahoma and give you conservatives hell.Seriously every county here went for Bush, doesnt that show how stupid you people are. You worry about taxes and now the debt is doubled, and you want to blame illigals,lol..blame your own stupidty. Bush plays you people like tools and fools , how sad. you live by hate and fear, and as you do make your standard of living fall. dollar is falling ,costs of everything is going thru roof, and many social ills cause by discrimination, and all you have is Scapegoating, no wonder empires fall,arrogant pricks!

Rich, it looks like your friend may not get to keep his license in Oregon much longer. Due to the overwhelming amount of fraud being perpetrated in the state by illegal immigrants their state government is looking into a way to eradicate the issues of illegal immigrants gaining access to things that they are not entitled to. This is due to pressure from the federal government because Oregon has become a breeding ground for all kinds of illegal immigrants due to their lax regulations concerning proof of identity and residence. Basically, an Asian immigrant could walk in speaking very little English, present forged papers that he is Joe Smith and as long as they weren't drawn with a crayon he will get a license as Joe Smith. So, although your friend may have a valid license he did obtain it illegally because if he is here illegally he could not provide verification that he was here legally. So, again, your friend is a CRIMINAL and should be deported on the next plane to wherever he came from.

Man Rich,my point was there is a big difference between what (I can't swim Kennedy) said and the number of legal and illegal aliens here today!

Rich, I think I've made several extremely valid points withing this blog. First, I discussed the TIN numbers and the number of illegal aliens that are filing taxes and getting a refund from this practice. Two, I discussed the taxing drain that illegal immigration has had on the school systems. Three, I have discussed ways to remedy the situation to immigration and allow it to happen for those that are so willing to break the law because they want a better life. Four, I have stated the more than obvious but most are way to ignorant to grasp the concept that it is not a racial issue. Five, I have discussed why today's immigration situation is very different than the situation where Europeans immigrated here 300 years ago. What have you contributed to the blog other than to defend illegal actions and whine about how we as a nation should support another nations citizens? Now, to address your last post and questions. I speak two languages in addition to English. I learned one in high school and one in college. I did it because I wanted to learn the language and not because of a requirement. In order to function in France for an extended period of stay, Yes, you would need to learn French in order to integrate into society. It's that simple. I don't go into someone's house and expect them to conform to me when I am a guest. Your friend cannot have a valid drivers license if he is here illegally unless he has a TIN and if he has one of those he can file his taxes and get any refund due to him according to what he paid in and what his exemptions are. If he does not have a TIN and paid/filed taxes and did not get a refund then pardon me but he should be deported for stupidity for throwing his money down the drain.

the speeding example is the PERFECT scenario. a law is a law. if you don't get caught then did you break the law? i think you did. what you're talking about is a degree to which the law is broken and who does it hurt or affect? i'm sure you'll never understand what he's going through or been through. but how will it change your life if he stays? how will it change your life if he goes? it won't either way but it will affect his. do you think canada should adopt one language (french or english)?

Speeding if you are caught then you pay the price! Illegal immigrant if you are caught then you pay the price! Immigration-- is easy! Do it the right way and you have no problem. The law is the law meant to be obeyed by all,If I went to a foreign land I would make it a point to do it legally first of all & then I would definitely learn the language of the land that I am in. And as for the immigrant his license is not valid because he is an illegal alien that has not been caught yet !!! He sounds like he could be a productive citizen so why not do it the right way? He has been here six years he has had the time by now to get it taken care of, but because he has not been caught he continues to disrespect our laws!!! The language may not be important for his job ,but it is important to be able to communicate with the people you deal with everday. The languages required to go to college, I am sure if you dug deep enough would have been set-up this way for just such a scenerio as you have written about taking a job in a foreign country or being able to communicate with others that you may have to be doing business with! English is the language of America if you cant abide by this then you do not need to be here in my opinion , some call this ignorance but I for one am sick of pushing 1 for english in a country I was born in! Rich, if you went to Mexico or any other country wouldn't you have the inclination to learn the language???? If this person you know is not legal why have you not talked to him about becoming legal & do what you can to help him get legal so that he can take advantage of his tax refund?? Rich, if you care about this guy then help him do it right so he can benefit from everything that America has to offer him !!!

man, dave... you have google too? that was a great point. a quote ted kennedy made 21 years ago is going to help so many problems today. did lewis and clark have any good advice on how to stop these wildfires? how about abraham lincoln on the tech bubble bursting in 2000?

"read my lips... no new taxes." --candidate for president of the united states of america george h.w. bush - campaign 1988

"...intelligence reports indicate they are attempting to purchase uranium from africa". -- president george w. bush -- state of the union 2004

"look at the big brain on bret, you're a smart mother f%$*&er". -- samuel l. jackson pulp fiction 1994.

"This amnesty will give citizenship to only 1.1 to 1.3 million illegal aliens. We will secure the borders henceforth. We will never again bring forward another amnesty bill like this."

-- Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy on the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

but speeding IS breaking the law. and what does FIRST language mean? how many do you speak? you have to speak more than one to have a FIRST. if you only speak one then thats the ONLY language you know. my point is that if you are speeding and nobody pulls you over you still broke the law. that's the point many try to make about undocumented immigrants. the parallel i am making is that if you are speeding and you get in an accident because you were speeding then the way to reduce all accidents caused by speeding would be to eliminate speeders.
but its not that simple, just like immigration. if you were offered a job for $1,000,000 per year and accepted it but it was in France would you first have to learn french even if it wasn't important for your job? and jan, last time i checked you hadn't made a decent point in all your postings on this blog. what if i told you i knew an undocumented immigrant that came here with his parents at the age of 9. he has a valid (oregon) driver's license, auto and health insurance that he pays for and has been gainfully employed for 6 years. he pays in $5600 per year in taxes and gets $0 back (even though if he were a citizen he'd be ebtitled to get 80% of it back). should he be subject to this? this is a REAL example. 100% accurate. what do you think you should do in this case?

Rich, last time I checked any time anyone causes a fatality due to speeding they are penalized with anything from manslaughter to murder depending on the circumstances and/or speed. I also think that we should have cultural diversity but English should be the FIRST language of any person that is benefiting from the American government in any way, shape or form.

don't you people get it? speeding is breaking the law. if its 56 in a 55 or 32 in a 30 its still BREAKING THE LAW. we need much tougher penalties on speeding. if you jailed the speededrs then traffic fatalities would be reduced by 83%. if you're a speeder then you're a killer. its just that simple.

maybe every time someone is pulled over for speeding we should take away their car, driver's license and put them in prison for 20 years.

Too true what others wrote about this. The church likes Hispanics because they are a large part of the church membership; it doesn't hurt their popularity within the church that they breed quickly and are very likely to be 'good' Catholics and support the church.
I agree with Rufus but go even further. In my opinion, all religions should be taxed just like any other business. Many, and not just Catholic, churches expound information about voting and support of certain politicians from the pulpit. If they are concerned about laws and politics, they should be willing to pay taxes.
Perhaps, since these people are 'so willing to work hard for an existence', they should be arrested and used to mow, paint, clean, etc., public streets and buildings for room and board but without actual pay. How many would stay then?
Entering the country is illegal. If laws are unenforced, the law itself becomes impotent and anarchy becomes the law.
If one wants to talk about racism, explain the idea behind "La Raza" to me.

Illegal Mexican Workers Could Receive Billions of Dollars from U.S. Social Security System

January 4, 2007 (Washington, DC) – After numerous refusals over three and a half years, the Social Security Administration (SSA) has released the first known public copy of the U.S.-Mexico Social Security Totalization Agreement. The government made the disclosure in response to lawsuits filed under the Freedom of Information Act by TREA Senior Citizens League, a 1.2 million member nonpartisan seniors advocacy group.

The Totalization Agreement could allow millions of illegal Mexican workers to draw billions of dollars from the U.S. Social Security Trust Fund.

A loophole in current Social Security law could allow millions of today's Mexican workers to eventually collect billions of dollars worth of Social Security benefits for earnings under fraudulent or "non-work authorized" Social Security numbers, putting huge new pressures on the Social Security Trust Fund.

If an illegal worker working in the United States today gets a "work authorized" Social Security number through guest worker immigration legislation, the Totalization Agreement, or perhaps just over time, that worker could eventually apply for Social Security benefits once he or she has met eligibility requirements.

In addition, that worker could be able to claim credits for work performed while in the U.S. illegally. The SSA maintains an "earnings suspense file," which tracks wages that cannot be posted to individual workers' records because there is no match for a name and Social Security number. Once an immigrant gains access to a work authorized Social Security number – whether a legal citizen or not – wages earned while in the U.S. unlawfully could be reinstated to the worker's new Social Security account.

The Congressional Research Service reports the earnings suspense file currently stands at approximately $520 billion. According to the congressional testimony of SSA Inspector General Patrick P. O'Carroll in February 2006, "We believe the chief cause of wage items being posted to the earnings suspense file instead of an individual's earning record is unauthorized work by non citizens."

hey... don't you guys think we should stop teaching anything except english in our public schools. god forbid anyone learn some cultural diversity. last time i checked you needed a year or two of spanish, french, latin or german just to get out of high school. Randy Terill thinks anyone in the 50 united states should only be able to communicate in english, so what do we need these language courses for?

another great example of what we're (the responsible, patriotic, realistic) up against.

ok. violet and martha. i actually don't have time to make up "funny" rhymes about real issues. the bottom line is that you have no way of being able to understand the problem. martha said fernando was "sleasy, scumbag and greasy" i guess you both condone that kind of irresponsible hyperbole.

Hey everybody I am all for getting the illegals out of here, but werent you a little hard on Fernando? He did it back asswards but he did say that he and his family became legal, isn't that what we all want??? And he said his brother was serving in Iraq. I think that deserves a little respect. I am no bleeding heart and I am damned tire of our government letting people take this country over but give this guy Fernando a break he turned it around. I know I will catch hell for this but I just feel bad for him.

Violet, Thanks for that remark to Rich. Sorry about leaving the part out about the illegal immigrants selling their pills.
As for Dave's comment about the anger being directed more at illegal Mexicans, they are the only ones that are causing all of the problems. All this talk about them "LIVING IN THE SHADOWS" is a bunch of hogwash. Anyone that commits a crime and then marchs up and down the streets yelling about it can not be too afraid of anything.

We have a first in Yukon. Some type of mexican establishment is here. On the corner of Czech Hall & Reno. I don't know what it is, because I don't speak Spanish. I think one of the words is Familia -family. I'll get a better look next time I go past it.

Most of the anger is directed at illegal Mexicans because that's all the news media shows on TV climbing over the fence on our Southern border!

Martha, you left out one part. wife need pills; we get them free; then we sell them for money.

Rich, I had rather be an idiot than be what you are.

Martha is not an idiot Rich. This is a heated topic. Some of us have been injured personally be these illegals. I, too, am sick to death of illegals clamoring for their rights when they are breaking the law by being here!

HOW VERY TRUE THIS IS:
I come for visit, get treated regal, so I stay, who care I illegal? I cross border, poor and broke, take bus, see employment folk. Nice man treat me good in there, say I need to see welfare. Welfare say, you come no more,we send cash right to your door. Welfare checks, they make you wealthy, Medicaid, it keep you healthy. By and by, I got plenty money, Thanks to you, American dummy. Write to frieds in Motherland, tell them to come, fast as you can. They come in rags and Chubby trucks, I buy big house with welfare bucks. They come here, we live together, more welfare checks, it get better. Fourteen families, they move in, but neighbor's patience wearing thin. Finally, white guy moves away, now I buy his house and then I say, find more aliens for house to rent, and in the front yard I put up a tent. Send for family,they just trash, but they too draw the welfare cash. Everything is much good and soon we own the neighborhood. We have habits, called breeding, welfare pay for baby feeding. Kid need dentist, wife need pill, we get free,we got no bills. American crazy, he pay all year to keep welfare running here. We think America darn good place, to darn good for the white man race. If they no like us they can go, got lots of room in Mexico.

Allison.. All you have to do to get a TIN number is fill out a form that the IRS can provide. It asks on the form what your particular case is and ranges from a NonResident Alien required to obtain an ITN to claim tax treaty benefit to Nonresident alien filing a tax return to Spouse of a Citizen. So basically, they are just asking if you're in the country and then handing out the number. I worked for a man that was from Turkey and he incorporated in the U.S. he was not a citizen and was never going to be a citizen yet he was able to get a TIN so he could apply for credit cards to use for his "company". The only thing a person with a TIN cannot do on a tax return is claim an earned income credit but they can benefit from ALL other tax benefits and credits including getting a nice FAT return. I promise you that this is black and white as simple as it gets. Not only did I graduate with a masters in accountancy but I do know how to use the Internet to research the current laws on IRS.gov. I still don't see any response from the pro illegal supporters concerning the tax returns filed and collected.. Makes you wonder why they won't answer valid questions and statements that are cold hard facts that illegal immigrants are not using the system to their advantage. Oh and for those that have never had the privilege of getting a tax return typically a low income tax return is double or sometimes triple what they pay into the system.

martha. you are an idiot.

It is so nice to know you can sue the government when you are ILLEGAL. If you don't have your affairs in order get ready to go home and come back the right way. I don't mind immigration, just lawbreakers. NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE FROM!!

I have heard it all now. I just heard on the news that the illegal immigrants are suing the Governor and the Attorney General over House Bill 1804 It is time we Oklahomans put our foot down and do something about this outlandish garbage that those criminals are doing. If I was the Govenor and the Attorney General I would show those scun bags that are in this county illegally just what racial profiling really is. If they can not show proof they are here legally, then slam them into a bus, van, suv or anything else and transport their no good behinds right back across the border.

It might not have crashed yet but they won't put an injunction in place to keep the law from being enacted so it's a mute point.

anybody up for a day at the capitol to suport our hb 1804?

you said law suits.did the second crash?

Let's just sit and wait and see what happens on November 1. I will be laughing at who actually turns out to protest the enactment of it considering the lawsuits have been thrown out of court.

Those who do not support HB1804 are going to protest on Nov.1st on the south steps of the Capitol. I wonder if the illegal that ran into and totaled my daughters car, ran, and got away will be there. This should be interesting. I wonder where the supporters of the bill should go to celebrate the passing of it will go? Anyone know anything?

If illegal immigrants are willing to work SO MUCH HARDER than our citizens, why do they complain that it is TOO HARD (takes too long) to apply for legal immigrant status? Their supporters repeatedly claim they are HARD WORKERS, but our rules are too hard? Explain that.

Jan, How does an illegal immigrant get a TIN? I know some are paid cash, under the table, and do not pay any taxes. Others have fake Social Security cards (fake documents or Identity Theft) and do pay taxes, possibly into someone else's account. But how does one just get a TIN and receive a refund, without a legal SS number? ......................................................
You also made some good points. While I read ALL of the previous posts, I kept thinking that not all of the USA was taken from the Indians. You said it well when you posted "Now, as far as everyone saying that the Europeans took the land from the Indians there is one MAJOR difference between now and then. The land was largely inhabited and there was room and resources for new inhabitants and there weren't 3 million Europeans entering the U.S. every year as there are with illegal aliens." Thanks!

I think he is still illegal. He keeps flipping back and forth between I am legal and we illegals come here to work.

Sorry, I thought Fernando was illegal. I read below where he was talking about illegals, and included himself.

Fernando were you better off before you became legal than you are now ? How have things changed for you ?? I thought earlier that you understood that illegal was not the way to go !

Fernando, you are breaking the law yourself. You sure don't seem too concerned by that. Knowing you are here illegaly, and protesting for your rights? None of you should have any rights! mark said it perfectly.

FERNANDO - As I Said the 1st time...I don't care about the right to bea rms. I have no guns in my home. I don't see the need for them. I ahve not shot a gun since I was an 8 year child at my grandparents house. The Ten Commandments, however, are God's law not mans. Again, by only commenting about the automatic citizenship for babies law, that tells me which one you are most worried about. So maybe you are not as legal as you say? Find another retort, I have laid that one to rest. Good Points Mark.

Sharon- You think that law is outdated than lets take your right to bare arms. that law in my own opinion is old. If you are christian, than lets abolish the ten commendments, they are several thousand years old. A law can never be to old.

Hey Fernando, what would you do if I were to come into your house without asking and told you hey sorry I am here uninvited but I like what you have here and I want it. Oh, by the way my family will be staying as well with you. My wife will be having a baby shortly but don’t worry you will pay for the hospital bill, you do not mind do you? You know I am sorry you really don’t like the color of my skin it being purple and all. What ? its not my skin you have a problem with. Oh it’s the fact I moved in without permission. Oh, sorry about that but I cannot see the problem. I think I will be staying so get used to it. By the way, my cousin is dropping in today. I hear he’s a bad apple but don’t worried just keep your kids locked up safe. You know I will mow your yard and do your laundry and all those things you do not want to do. Therefore, that will be my reason you should not call the cops or kick me out.this is o.k with you right?

Hey Fernando, what would you do if I were to come into your house without asking and told you hey sorry I am here uninvited but I like what you have here and I want it. Oh, by the way my family will be staying as well with you. My wife will be having a baby shortly but don’t worry you will pay for the hospital bill, you do not mind do you? You know I am sorry you really don’t like the color of my skin it being purple and all. What ? its not my skin you have a problem with. Oh it’s the fact I moved in without permission. Oh, sorry about that but I cannot see the problem. I think I will be staying so get used to it. By the way, my cousin is dropping in today. I hear he’s a bad apple but don’t worried just keep your kids locked up safe. You know I will mow your yard and do your laundry and all those things you do not want to do. Therefore, that will be my reason you should not kick me out.this is all o.k with you right?

I don't care about the right to bear arms. The Ten Commandments, however, are God's law not mans. And by your comment, I can see that is the law you are most concerned about.

Sharon- You think that law is outdated than lets take your right to bare arms. that law in my own opinion is old. If you are christian, than lets abolish the ten commendments, they are several thousand years old. A law can never be to old.

Fernando, Why do you keep saying it's a race thing? How can it be a race thing when Hispanic is not a race? Oh, and you must have missed my post where it pointed out the amount of money that TIN holders have collected over the last 6 years in tax refunds. 23 BILLION! That's a LOT of money to people who are supposedly losing the taxes that they supposedly pay. There may be some illegals that aren't filing taxes but I would bet my new car that there are far more that are and collecting on that tax refund.

I amtrying to remember the last time I travelled to a foreign country and flew the American flag while I was there.....HMMMM

but if you were to come in legally we would be able to take the bad apples out of the basket.and tell anybody you know that might have the mexican flag displayed that it is rude.

Fernando - the hijackers of 9/11 were illegal, just not Hispanic. Also people are constantly saying, "They/We are just trying to better ourselves and provide a good or better life for our families." Guess who else says that, drug dealers and traffickers. It's illegal, but hey if it is ok for one group to break the law and GET AWAY with it why not let the druggies out. Most of them would probably say they didn't see any other way to rise above the poverty the were living in. Yes, most Hispanic illegals are hardworking, but ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL and if we get rid of that ridiculous outdated law that states you are a citizen by birth, they would not be coming over here to reap the benefits of the birth of their child(ren). I am all for immigration and if it takes "10 years" to get it one legally, part of that problem probably lies with your government..talk to them!!!

Jeff, we do as immigrant do pay taxes, legal or illegal. So we don't need HB1804. HB1804 is one of the most racist bill since "seperate but equal" went into effect.

HB1804 - Thou shalt pay taxes.

It does matter what people think. I will never grow tired of saying it is about race. Illegals don't come here to blow up some building. They, mmm we, come here to work. We are not terrorists. Terriorist are Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, the hijackers of 9/11, the bombers of the USS Cole, the Unibomber, radical religions who think that violance is the way to go. How about the person who threw explosives into the Mexican Consulate in NYC? are they terrorist? You bet they are! The only thing the illegals have done is entered the country illegal and yes there are bad apples.

It does matter what people think. I will never grow tired of saying it is about race. Illegals don't come here to blow up some building. They, mmm we, come here to work. We are not terrorists. Terriorist are Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, the hijackers of 9/11, the bombers of the USS Cole, the Unibomber, radical religions who think that violance is the way to go. How about the person who threw explosives into the Mexican Consulate in NYC? are they terrorist? You bet they are! The only thing the illegals have done is entered the country illegal and yes there are bad apples.

Now what self respecting slum lord would evict anyone?? That would be cutting off their nose to spite the face!! If there were not greedy Americans giving out the job's & renting out the houses , there would be no demand for the illegals. I am for them doing it the right way, but by the same token I am for putting the greedy American out of business !!!

does any one think there will be a third suit if the second goes down? i herd they were going to wait until it went into efect and then have the latino sue squad come in again.

My guess is it will be shut down because it was filed with "John Does" being the victim. They can't sue on behalf of a John Doe because John Doe is illegal and illegals have no right to sue in this country for rights that do not belong to them. It's just a smoke screen to once again use more taxpayer dollars and bilk the system and bog down the system that Americans need.

It will, it's just as frivilous at the first one. This one claims "john does" were evicted because of the law. They'll have to produce "john doe" which will be hard to do since they probably don't exist. Religious leaders lying their azz's off is all it is.

but what about the second lawsuit the latinos put up today? did it get shot down as well?does anyone know

It matters not what pro-illegals think. The people have spoken, the law was passed and the judge threw out their frivilous lawsuit trying to stop the will of the people. In 6 days penalties will start to hit greedy employers that hire cheap illegal labor to undercut the competition..The playing field will be leveled for the honest and the crooked will no longer have an edge.

But again it's the past not the present. There are other issues today than at that time. I'm sorry but immigration has to be a top issue and we have to find a way to tighten all our borders and be tough on immigration. This country has to be safe. After the attacks of 9/11 we finally realized that we don't spend enough time making sure people renew their visas when here to work or for school and can just live here illegally and then find a way to destroy us. I'm not talking about Mexicans or Muslims, I'm talking about them all. So get back to the issue, not the race card. It's a natioanl security issue!

...also Truman lived in an era when most "whites" thought "seperate but equal" was the right thing to do.

...also Truman lived in an era when most "whites" thought "seperate but equal" was the right thing to do.

"are there people who are willing"

"In no other realm of our national life are we so hampered and stultified by the dead hand of the past, as we are in this field of immigration." -President Harry Truman, 1952 I might also add that in no other debate are people who willing to show off their worst sides than in immigration. I guess we have always been more willing to listen to our fears than the angels of our better nature (to quote Lincoln).

Fernando, Then I say welcome to America i am glad you turned it around and became legal. I am also human, I do not spell things right all of the time either. If you are so interested in this subject then go to the illegals you know & have them enter this country the right way at that point they won't be selling themselves short or those that did it right !!! Most of us understand that illegals work hard & for less , but what you don't understand is that this is our country and we have laws for a reason if everyone breaks them then we all lose !

Fernando is legally here now. He's right, he couldn't have done so without President Reagan. Just because one president did something that let gave everyone who was here citizenship once does not mean that every 20 to 30 years we need to do the same. It was different then than it is now. This is not just a federal issue because it strains the individual states and not just the national governement. The state is suppose to have more power than the federal government, that's how this was set up. Go back to American National Government and learn how this is suppose to work!

Robin-I am human and humans are not perfect. I am an American and I did enter this beautiful illegaly. I am not an illegal anymore. Rufus, please don't put GOD into this topic. Thanks. Lets talk to the millions of citizens who don't work because the want to and receive millions from the state.

Steve, you said your business in the southside was booming. What is your business, pawn shop or Auto chop shop??

Fernando if you are a college graduate as you stated; then you need to find out why they let you out without being able to properly spell ??? I am happy your life has turned out well and I appreciate your brothers service to this country, but you are not an American unless you did this legally! You may not mind giving up your tax dollars but some of us do !!! We have problems right here at home.

myra....IT BELONGS TO US NOW.why are you pro ilegal? i got it.we can do like the stores and just put a sighn at the border that say's we Reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. No green card, no birth certificate no service

It will be interesting to see what happens to crime rates in 2008.

It will be interesting to see what happens to crime rates in 2008.

My kids quit going to Crossroads Mall years ago because the mexican gangs had taken over and threaten all the other kids. That's good for business, isn't it Steve??

Fernando, If an illegal pays $2k a year in taxes and it costs us $16k a year to educate 2 of his kids, how does that help? Steve, don't worry, when people aren't afraid to go to the southside anymore your business will improve.

Fernando, the strain Illegals put on the American Taxpayer is well documented (unlike they are).. over 600,000 in our prisons sucking up Tax dollars after committing horrendous crimes to America.. Don't give me all that bull, if you were an Illegal, you should have been deported also and made to come over legally. Why should we give a crap about the length of time it takes? They are not all hard working people either, criminals make up millions of them, hard core gang members invading our country. We have enough of our own problems without letting them come in. Go home!!! God bless HB 1804!!!

Steve, you're saying South side OKC is a paradise? How many drive bys per year? The Southside of OKC is a crime ridden area, you know it, I know it and everyone that has paid any attention knows it. Why is it crime ridden? Please tells us that Steven????

Steve, nobody has a problem with the Hispanic community. Hell, most I'm sure embrace it. People have a problem with the Illegal community, who incidentally does not help our tax base because they are not counted in the official census numbers that determine our congressional seats.

Fernando, you're absolutely right that illegal immigrants are filing taxes and in a 6 year period ending in 2003 they received almost 23 BILLION in refunds. That's because they are getting TIN numbers to help them "appear" legal when they are in fact not following through with becoming legal. Not all TIN number holders are illegal but it is estimated that 74% are illegal. Now, before you tell me that no that's not true. In 1996, 60,000 TIN numbers were issued. Then in 2003, 1.5 million were issued. That increase is NOT due to people following the law or legally earning an income in the US. That increase is from illegal immigration. They are taught to do this so that if "rounded" up they can say that they are trying to comply with the laws and act innocent as if they are doing things the right way. But in reality, they live off the system by using the TINs, making no attempt to establish legal citizenship and using government dollars to help them live their lives. It's wrong and it's illegal regardless of whether you put the Blue "racist" bow on it or the "pink" want a better life bow on it. They are breaking the law and should be punished swiftly and severely. Hey, here's one for you. If they are illegal and don't want to go back to their homelands. Let them serve a prison term equal to their stay in the US and then let them keep a record with a felony conviction and then let them become US citizens. That way they have served time for their crime, cannot collect any benefits from the governments and still get to be US citizens.

I have a business on the south side in the heart of the Latino population. This is a thriving commercial area. It is not a wasteland. I do see prostitutes when I drive home each night but they are downtown and north of downtown, which are not Hispanic areas. What people are missing out on here though is that the Hispanic population is a large part of our economy. The Hispanic population is the growth not just in our economy but in the number of voters. Oklahoma lost representation in Washington in 2000 where we went from five congressional seats to four. We need this growth to stay a more vital part of the union. It helps the tax base. It helps the economy.

Race doesn't play a factor here because Mexican is not a race. It's a culture, a nationality or an ethnicity but it isn't a race. Mexicans are Caucasians whether you like it or not and that's simple DNA/Genetics 101. Now, as far as everyone saying that the Europeans took the land from the Indians there is one MAJOR difference between now and then. The land was largely inhabited and there was room and resources for new inhabitants and there weren't 3 million Europeans entering the U.S. every year as there are with illegal aliens. Like it or not this comes down to a situation where we do not have the room or resources to substantiate that kind of population influx without the immigrants supporting the US and taking the burden that they are now placing on us off by learning the language, adhering to the law and paying their own way.

Rufus, you know Fernando is right. Some of the tax dollars we pay, we see it back come tax season most "illegal" immigrants do not and they pay taxes as well. Did you think they don't pay taxes. Everyone posting here has brought up valid points to prove about illegal immigration, some points are just ignorant like most of yours. Why is it that when you bring up illegal immigration, gangs, illicit drugs and all those other things are pin pointed to "illegals" and you say your not racist. Open your eyes you see a a bit of everything in every class and in every color. You know if you look back at history... America didn't even belong to you!! I understand something needs to be done to control the influx of illegal immigration, but seriously do you think you can run out the many that are here. Be realisitc about it instead of talking out of your a**!!

RUFUS- Are you stupid? Illegal immigrants do pays taxes. Taxes are taken out of their paycheck. Do they pay enough taxes? Who knows. Do they file for income tax? Some do and some don't. I came to this country more than 20 years ago as an illegal child w/ my parents & one brother, we were all illegal at the time. What is our status now? Dad is a citizen, mom is a legal resident, brother is a citizen and in the Air Force and in Iraq. What is an ex illegal doing there? You can answer that question yourself. And me?I have a college degree in engineering. How in the world did this happen. Ask the late Ronald Reagen. I owe my life to him. If it wasn't for him I do not know what I would be doing. We need to help ever illegal in the country. I don't mind using my tax dollars helping them. People remember this is land of opertunity. That is why people come here. They can not find that in their own countries. And appling for just to become a legal resident takes years. People grow tired of waiting. Also to apply you need a sponser to even apply. Many illegal immigrants who applied (to become legal)are living in the US have waited enough. Why not shorten the time time a couple of years not 10+ years? This is a RACE issue. I am tired of hearing "this is not a race issue". I bet most who say that are "white" and never been minority. I have.

RUFUS- Are you stupid? Illegal immigrants do pays taxes. Taxes are taken out of their paycheck. Do they pay enough taxes? Who knows. Do they file for income tax? Some do and some don't. I came to this country more than 20 years ago as an illegal child w/ my parents & one brother, we were all illegal at the time. What is our status now? Dad is a citizen, mom is a legal resident, brother is a citizen and in the Air Force and in Iraq. What is an ex illegal doing there? You can answer that question yourself. And me?I have a college degree in engineering. How in the world did this happen. Ask the late Ronald Reagen. I owe my life to him. If it wasn't for him I do not know what I would be doing. We need to help ever illegal in the country. I don't mind using my tax dollars helping them. People remember this is land of opertunity. That is why people come here. They can not find that in their own countries. And appling for just to become a legal resident takes years. People grow tired of waiting. Also to apply you need a sponser to even apply. Many illegal immigrants who applied (to become legal)are living in the US have waited enough. Why not shorten the time time a couple of years not 10+ years? This is a RACE issue. I am tired of hearing "this is not a race issue". I bet most who say that are "white" and never been minority. I have.

Take my advice, move to the upper Northeast or Canada...it's so cold most Latinos don't want to deal with it.

Mexican DTOs and Mexican criminal groups are the primary wholesale distributors of illicit drugs in Oklahoma. The Latin Kings, South Side Locos, and Mara Salvatrucha, which are primarily Hispanic gangs. Gang activity has been observed throughout Oklahoma. The southside Locos are the south OKC gang that rules the Murder inc, drug sales, prostitution and extortion in South OKC. The southside of OKC has become a dangerous wasteland.

Rufus- I drive BY south okc going and coming from work on I-44. I don't drive through many of the neighborhoods often but the last time I did, it opened my eyes. Capitol Hill and U.S. Grant are overwhelmed by hispanic gangs along with Webster, Jackson, Roosevelt, and Jefferson middle schools. It's really scary. I wouldn't send my child to any of those schools.

When are you all going to wake up? BUSH DOESN'T CARE!! The illegals in this country are only making him look better and furthering his party's ticket. Illegals mean more money for big business, more money for the politicians..they could care LESS about the middle class...we're working more, getting paid less, and if you're an illegal immigrant you get more benefits and breaks than those of us who are actual citizens. The time is NOW to take back our country!!!

anybody that does not see this as organized look again.tens of thousands march on the u.s in one day.a state (and not just oklahoma) trys to stop the influx by new laws and are met with law suits

A full 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide, which totaled 1,500 last year in Los Angeles, pointed to illegal aliens. Soberingly, two thirds of all fugitive felony warrants, totaling 17,000, were for illegal aliens. In 1995, a report showed that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in Southern California included illegal aliens. That gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia on drug distribution schemes, extortion and drive-by assassinations. MS-13 Salvadoran gangs from Central America, with over 8,000 members, operate in 28 American cities. They’re the guys offering free drug samples to our kids with the end result being addiction. Taken a ride through South OKC lately?? Oklahoma is almost there, thank good for 1804

The law is called "Oklahoma Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act of 2007".. Illegals and Churches don't need their tax dollars protected, they don't pay taxes, they only reap the benefits of the taxpayers (welfare, schools, police, roads ect.) Must be nice being a freeloader on the Oklahoma citizens..

I do not hate mexicans legal or illegal.I work in a hospital I see on a nightly basis what I am paying for & it makes me sick!! I have no health insurance because I can't afford it , but every illegal alien in town is able to get treated on my dime. So Kieth by all means take your money to a different state .I hear California is great !! This issue is about Oklahoma being tired of the invasion of Illegals & tired of pushing 1 for english !!! Have them come here legally & there is no problem.

It's amazing how the "race card" gets thrown as soon as laws are passed. I would see the illegal immigration issue the same if it was "anglo" Canadians invading our country. It's an INVASION people...wake up! They are just not firing bullets at us.

Here is my point of view that I have never read here on any immigration issue. Mexicans say they come here because they can do better here than at home. How about this: Why don't they try to improve the economy at home. Why do they not stay home and try to change the Mexican government? The country of Mexico is not a poor country. They have a lot of oil and a lot of tourism. Instead of leaving their beloved land, why don't they stay and try to change it. I'll tell you why the Mexican government doesn't want to help stem the flow of illegal immigrants to the U.S. the money sent from the U.S. to Mexico is the second largest "industry" in Mexico behind only the oil industry. Why would they want to stop that. It is the people of Mexico that need to demand better. It is a slap in the face of every hard working "legal" immigrant to have people come here illegally and get the same benefits they have. I ramble, but my point is made.

Now they are listing several "john does" that have been evicted? Should not the lawsuit be against the landlords? OH, that's right, they are illegal (if the john does even exist at all) and can't file a lawsuit..

All this shows is how centered us here in the south are on the fact that it is Mexicans and only Mexicans. In other parts of the country the illegals are from other countries. The Mexicans are the ones that were out on the streets protesting yes but that's because they are in larger numbers in states like California, Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona, and New Mexico. We all know that slavery existed at one point and it's gone now. We have moved on from the beginning of America. The people who first settled here and took over did so in a damaging way for the people that were here first but we are past that point in history. Just like throughout the world. Everybody got lands by conquering. Now let us focus on what is best for this country and the people living here. That would be, everybody obey the laws, those that don't be punished and continue with this Great Nation and allow the citizens of the country benefit from what we do. There are plenty of people who do things the legal way no matter how difficult it is. So everybody can. It's that simple. Do it the right way and you are entitled to the benefits that all other citizens are entitled to.

Gary, as far as illegal immigrant supporters go, you are extremely racist and ignorant. In reality, no, you are not a racist bigot, by far. You are simply voicing your opinion that just happens to coincide with the LAW. Too bad more people don't understand this.

I welcome all foreigners to our great country. Just apply legally. Now, am I a racist bigot for say this?

What? A person cannot have an opinion without being called racist. Raise the American flag and leave the mexican flag in mexico.tired of hearing we are all immigrants. I am AMERICAN! Born and raised here. Besides there is a difference between legal and illegal. The difference being legal means you respect the country. Illegal means no respect for the country. In addition, do not talk about what you hear and see keith. I see the hate and racism every time I pick up my kids from school from Hispanic parents. In addition, when my kid comes home and tells me that the hipanics tell her they are taking the country and will run all whites out, well what’s that tell me keith? Parents are teaching the kids young. These kids are five. So you want to talk racism look at your own skin buddy because guess what, the white man does not have that market cornered.

Keith, there is something about this issue which seems to bring out the very worst in many people. Part of this comes down to "I have. You need. You will not have what is mine." I would ask the righteous "haves" what they would do if they were in the positions of the "needs". What did their ancestors do? You will do what you have to do if you faced a life of poverty, a life where you could not provide for the needs of your family by any means necessary.

I don't understand it. Granted, Mexican immigrants are the majority of illegals in this country, but why is it that every single time the illegal immigration debate comes up everybody (on BOTH sides) focuses their attention on Mexicans? Illegal immigration is a concern on ALL sides of the border people.

Mikki (from OKC) seems to have a solid head on her shoulders. "It's not Mexicans people hate, it's illegal activity". Spot on, Mikki. A few others of you also have very valid points, the rest are just ignorant ramblings and proof that some of you aren't grasping what the real topic of debate is.

This is America, EVERYBODY is welcome, all you have to do is follow the proper procedure (easier said than done, I know, but nothing in life is free), but whether you're black, brown, white, man, woman, or child, you're welcome here, that's the glory of America. Just do so legally, your efforts will be rewarded people. America has enough problems of its own, though. Too many legal US citizens are sick, homeless, dying, and hungry. To have a solid America, we need a solid foundation. Too much time, effort, and especially money is spent on illegal immigrants (deportation and border security (ALL borders) are the only fees I see fit) when that money could be better spent feeding our hungry children, in-school and after-school programs, medicines for those who can't afford what they NEED, food for hungry, etc... Completely closing the borders isn't a likely possibility, but things need to severely tighten down, and quick. Until we (US citizens of ANY race, religion, age, or sex) can clean up our home and rebuild our ground floors (getting people off the street, kids back in school, etc) then we might want to think about hanging the "Welcome" mat up for a while.

I'm not Kelly Ogle, but that's my two cents.

I don't understand it. Granted, Mexican immigrants are the majority of illegals in this country, but why is it that every single time the illegal immigration debate comes up everybody (on BOTH sides) focuses their attention on Mexicans? Illegal immigration is a concern on ALL sides of the border people.

Mikki (from OKC) seems to have a solid head on her shoulders. "It's not Mexicans people hate, it's illegal activity". Spot on, Mikki. A few others of you also have very valid points, the rest are just ignorant ramblings and proof that some of you aren't grasping what the real topic of debate is.

This is America, EVERYBODY is welcome, all you have to do is follow the proper procedure (easier said than done, I know, but nothing in life is free), but whether you're black, brown, white, man, woman, or child, you're welcome here, that's the glory of America. Just do so legally, your efforts will be rewarded people. America has enough problems of its own, though. Too many legal US citizens are sick, homeless, dying, and hungry. To have a solid America, we need a solid foundation. Too much time, effort, and especially money is spent on illegal immigrants (deportation and border security (ALL borders) are the only fees I see fit) when that money could be better spent feeding our hungry children, in-school and after-school programs, medicines for those who can't afford what they NEED, food for hungry, etc... Completely closing the borders isn't a likely possibility, but things need to severely tighten down, and quick. Until we (US citizens of ANY race, religion, age, or sex) can clean up our home and rebuild our ground floors (getting people off the street, kids back in school, etc) then we might want to think about hanging the "Welcome" mat up for a while.

I'm not Kelly Ogle, but that's my two cents.

I have a couple of Mexican friends that have been here for years legally. They have and do work hard as do their families to have a good life here in the United States. They have commented to me that if they have come into this Country the 'LEGAL' way, all the others can too, or they can go back to Mexico and start over.
My friends are hard working people that came into the US with nothing, many years ago and have made something for themselves and their families.
The reason we have so many employers hiring illegals is because Mexicans are hard workers and will work from dawn to dusk to get a job done, for alot less money then their American counter part who will not do the job the Mexican will do anyway.
Illegals need to go back to Mexico and come back legally, American's need to get off welfare, realize they are not to good to do the job's Mexicans will do and go to work.
To the many people who use the welfare system because of actual necessity, you are not included in the above generalazation.

Keith - go ahead and take your money to another state -and load up a bunch of illegal aliens to take with you.

Keith, your drinking buddies are probably racist. I grew up in a racist family and saw how twisted and biased it really is. But that doesnt represent the majority, nor does it represent most Americans. I'm sure that some have race as a motivation to promote anti immigration just like I'm sure there are those that do the same for pro immigration. So spam it all you want. Doesnt make it true.

Its funny how pro immigration groups try to pull anything they can to change laws. Its convenient to call uss racists becuase the issue is with a different ethnic group. They tell us that we won't get our laundry clean or our lawns mowed. They tell us that illegals contibute to the economy and removing them would cause a blow to America itself. Each one of these arguements are untrue. They are last ditch efforts to try to immediately impact popular consensus. Here's the fact. It is the American public that sees how the illegals impact our society and we are the ones that want change. Pro immigration groups know that if they dont attack Oklahoma's new policies, they will see the beginning of the end. They will file lawsuits, attack politicians and twist the truth until they win.

But, as a society, we dont want to align ourselves publicly with the reform laws beause we worry about backlash and ridicule. So I say this now. Do more than type your feeling on an anonymous board. Speak out with friends and those in our government and let them know that this isnt about racism. Its about stopping the growing costs and impact associated with illegal immigration.

Lets make the statement, if you want to come to this country, do it legally and love it as we do. You can still respect and love your country of origin and keep your traditions. BUT LEARN THE LANGUAGE, STOP BREAKING LAWS AND CONTRIBUTE AS AN AMERICAN. Do this and be welcome, fail to and your gone.

If you people think , that this issue has nothing to do with Race, you are either delussional stupid or blind,or all three,lol,Its all about race,how do I know,cause I am white with hispanic background, and I know others like me,we get around other whites and all the talk about is Racist, what the idiots dont realize is that many Americans have diverse backgrounds, so sell you lies somewere else bigots or get a brain,either way I dont care, I will take my money to another state, and encourage others to do the same , If hateful unfair laws are passed, Were are the penalties for the slaveowners? very little to none, so tell me it aint discrimination! I wish you knew what I knew, but like the bible says , his people perrish for lack of knowledge, peace justice and mercy is all Jesus wanted, conservatives mock him, sad

If you people think , that this issue has nothing to do with Race, you are either delussional stupid or blind,or all three,lol,Its all about race,how do I know,cause I am with with hispanic background, and I know others like me,we get around other whites and all the talk about is Racist, what the idiots dont realize is that many Americans have diverse backgrounds, so sell you lies somewere else bigots or get a brain,either way I dont care, I will take my money to another state, and encourage others to do the same , If hateful unfair laws are passed, Were are the penalties for the slaveowners? very little to none, so tell me it aint discrimination! I wish you knew what I knew, but like the bible says , his people perrish for lack of knowledge, peace justice and mercy is all Jesus wanted, conservatives mock him, sad

If you people think , that this issue has nothing to do with Race, you are either delussional stupid or blind,or all three,lol,Its all about race,how do I know,cause I am with with hispanic background, and I know others like me,we get around other whites and all the talk about is Racist, what the idiots dont realize is that many Americans have diverse backgrounds, so sell you lies somewere else bigots or get a brain,either way I dont care, I will take my money to another state, and encourage others to do the same , If hateful unfair laws are passed, Were are the penalties for the slaveowners? very little to none, so tell me it aint discrimination! I wish you knew what I knew, but like the bible says , his people perrish for lack of knowledge, peace justice and mercy is all Jesus wanted, conservatives mock him, sad

If you people think , that this issue has nothing to do with Race, you are either delussional stupid or blind,or all three,lol,Its all about race,how do I know,cause I am with with hispanic background, and I know others like me,we get around other whites and all the talk about is Racist, what the idiots dont realize is that many Americans have diverse backgrounds, so sell you lies somewere else bigots or get a brain,either way I dont care, I will take my money to another state, and encourage others to do the same , If hateful unfair laws are passed, Were are the penalties for the slaveowners? very little to none, so tell me it aint discrimination! I wish you knew what I knew, but like the bible says , his people perrish for lack of knowledge, peace justice and mercy is all Jesus wanted, conservatives mock him, sad

If you people think , that this issue has nothing to do with Race, you are either delussional stupid or blind,or all three,lol,Its all about race,how do I know,cause I am with with hispanic background, and I know others like me,we get around other whites and all the talk about is Racist, what the idiots dont realize is that many Americans have diverse backgrounds, so sell you lies somewere else bigots or get a brain,either way I dont care, I will take my money to another state, and encourage others to do the same , If hateful unfair laws are passed, Were are the penalties for the slaveowners? very little to none, so tell me it aint discrimination! I wish you knew what I knew, but like the bible says , his people perrish for lack of knowledge, peace justice and mercy is all Jesus wanted, conservatives mock him, sad

If you people think , that this issue has nothing to do with Race, you are either delussional stupid or blind,or all three,lol,Its all about race,how do I know,cause I am with with hispanic background, and I know others like me,we get around other whites and all the talk about is Racist, what the idiots dont realize is that many Americans have diverse backgrounds, so sell you lies somewere else bigots or get a brain,either way I dont care, I will take my money to another state, and encourage others to do the same , If hateful unfair laws are passed, Were are the penalties for the slaveowners? very little to none, so tell me it aint discrimination! I wish you knew what I knew, but like the bible says , his people perrish for lack of knowledge, peace justice and mercy is all Jesus wanted, conservatives mock him, sad

You're not standing up for minorities Keith, you're just flapping your gums. You get your check book out to pay for their food and rent? No, you want hard working Oklahomans to pay through the nose with our taxes to do it.. I'm tired of paying for ripple drinking crack smoking gang members to lounge around on my tax dollars, let their own countries fund that.

Mikki...very good point. Why is it OK for illigal immigrants to break the law just because they are doing it "for a better life". Well, I want a better life than what I have. So, can I go use someone elses SSN? Can I go rob a bank so I can buy better food or a new car or send my kid to college so he can have a better life? NO!!! The end doesn't justify the means.

Americans hate illigal activity,yeah right,Sooners broke the law they are celebrated! We are fighting an illigal War!Bush and his people commited treason, illigals are the scapegoat bigots use to justify thier stupidity! Too bad people who claim to be Christians will never know what Jesus was really taling about.Isnt that why you false christians and fake patriots ,hate liberals , because we stand up for minorities.Some of us American really love our country and what it really means,enforce the law but do it in christ, and take into account fairness. Seems like our great country is in decline due to descrimination ,past and present, too bad, we are overextending ourself both militarily and economically, and now we want to divide at home. Sad so sad. cutting our throats in iraq and at home, why lies and hate and fear, not the spirit of God!

Charles people dont hate Mexicans. Its the illegal activity they hate. They may be hard working, church-going individuals but they have also broken the laws. It interests me that one politician said that these illegals break the law for a good cause. A better life. So would it follow that if my spouse was dying because I could not afford to pay for the medicines he needed to stay alive that I can go rob a pharmacy for that medicine and be forgiven by the laws of the land because I did it for a good cause? I dread if nothing is done this will become the Civil War of the 21st Century. I am not racist I am just a concerned American Citizen who loves her country.

Was I off base about the Catholic Church (priests) running rampant for decades molesting little kids? I think not. It's all a word game with people playing the race card (as always when they make no sense).. Illegal aliens are not supposed to be in this country without prior permisssion. The churches (aka Latino clergy) set up workshops to teach them how to work the system(anchor babies, welfare, medicaid). They can't deny they do it, it's big business for them and they are wealthy because of it.

Well it kinda is when you think about it ..I mean the higher ups/union bosses ( cardinals and bishops) watch out for and cover up after the " little guys " aka pedophile priests. If someone can come up with a better model to describe it I'd like to see it. We need to come up with some better models than religion as it exists today anyway , be it christian or muslim or hebrew. All it does is lead to division and death. There isn't any " god" behind any of this , its just humanity trying to put a holy front on its own horrid behavior.

Sounds like several statements I thought had been gone for good.1. America, love it or leave it. 2. My Country, right or wrong. I just wonder why so many people here hate Mexicans? It seems that everyone wants to enforce the laws but immigration, legal or illegal, is a Federal issue and the hateful state legislators should go back to compassion school.

@ Mister from Bogata: Thank you sir. I now have a new official name for the catholic church.

We need to take religion out of this. God is a spook in the sky as far as I am concerned. A stolen social security number or a car wreck with an illegal alien who doesn't have a license or insurance or a MS 13 gang member with a pistol is however very "here and now" .Dave in Blue Rapids is dead on about Elvira Arellano as well , except that she should have done prison time for using a stolen social security number BEFORE we deported her. What if it had been YOUR social security number ??? What a travesty the child molesters union ( catholic church ) is trying to help perpetuate here, sheesh !

I don't understand how the catholic church can condone breaking the law. First sex laws and now immigration law. Charity is a very important part of society. God gave us free will to help our fellow man or not. Therefore Forced Charity is not gods will.
I agree with Ray who said "The only thing the Catholics are interested in is keeping all the donations they get from Hispanic families". They also prohibit birth control for this reason. More catholics + less education = more income for the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City.
There may be some who support criminals but there are far more who oppose them in OK.

P.S. So very sorry about running some of this together but I am sure you get the point !!!!

I for one am a Catholic! I resent some of the remarks here, not all Catholics think that these people should be here unless they are legal. As far as keeping the church doors open-- the illegals I am sure contribute the Money that they can afford to give ( on the small pay they get ) but it by no means keeps the church going! And yes the Illegals probably attend the church more so than some of us !!! These people are the hardest working people I have ever seen and most spend the sabbath day in church & doing things with the family , I think this is great But they still need to do it the legal way & definitely learn the language . If it is ok to do what they are doing then I think we should just go ahead & take over Mexico & call it even. And as for the idiot that said That Catholics molest children I want you to know that I am Catholic and have never molested a child !!! There are good and bad in every church. I am not against Mexicans I am just sick & damned tired of having to cater to them; because they can't speak english & once they get here legally & learn the language you can bet your ass they wont be holding down the so called crappy jobs the American white man doesn't want to do because at that point they wont have to.Some things Catholics need to stay out of & politics is one of them!!!

Hello, I am a true blue American and also a man of the Christian faith. I agree with many of the posts to a degree yet at the same time I try to understand how a person must feel when thinking about the opportunity to come and better themselves. Are some doing it illegal,,,yes. For many it may be the only way to get a better life. I don't know all the answers to this on going problem. What I do know is that either way there will be people who will argue and disagree. Just some food for thought.....not too many years ago white / caucasion people were the immigrants. Its a good thing the true natives didn't deport them or many of us wouldn't be here today. Think about this, many don't mind spending 300 million a day helping folks in the middle east right now yet don't want to help out a group of people trying to get ahead in life. I don't know I may be wrong but it does appear a little double standard to me. Contrare to what some think or might say, I believe in the power of prayer and will be praying not only for the illegals but for our leaders making decisions that they use sound wisdom.

Has nothing to do with race. It's about being a criminal who breaks US law by sneaking into our country and then breaking a multitude of laws to stay here. The Church should lose it's non-tax status for interfering with oklahoma law.

If some of us complaint about illegal aliens then we're called racist.But the facts are that illegal aliens do come here illegally and get jobs with stolen Social Security numbers.They then sent 25 billion dollars a year back to Mexico, at the same time holding out their hand for public assistance. It costs the American tax payer around 50 billion dollars a year to pay for their Free medical care,Rent assistance,Food stamps,Translators for their children in our public schools and Free lunches. American cities along the border provide free emergency medical care for Mexican citizens, and what do the pregnant Mexican women do in return? They come across the border to have their babies ( American Citizens).How about Elvira Arellano and her child,she was deported came back,had the child and return to work with a stolen Social Security number,she also had been in our country for 10 years,but had to have a translator at her news conference! Earlier this year illegal aliens demonstrated in the streets of our cities demanding amnesty by flying the American flag upside down below the Mexican flag and carrying signs saying "this land is ours Gringo" I would ask the supporters of illegal aliens what do you tell the millions of immigrants waiting in other countries that want to come here legally? Just because we share a common border that they can wade across to get here,does not give them the automatic right to American Citizenship Its worth more than that! "

If the Catholics were really interested in "helping their fellow man", they would stop molesting kids. They would also obey the laws of the land. The only thing the Catholics are interested in is keeping all the donations they get from Hispanic families.

Everything isn't about God.. sometimes it's about the law.

Pray? Law of charity? True Americans? Don't you bigots read the section about the good samaritan? Really read, I mean. True Americans isn't a term I've seen in the constitution, declaration of independence, bill of rights, or anyplace other than racist remarks in these response columns, and maybe Lou Dobbs. I hate to burst your little bubbles, but American means more than United States! Nothing more laughable than a racist, bigoted Christian beseaching the heavens for deliverance from the brown(black, red, yellow) hordes devouring their land, their money and their women. I bet God has an answer for you a little later; with a little luck God won't be one of those colors you refuse to associate with. Do you even remember His standards for entry? Last time I checked, He didn't refuse citizenship for a misdemeanor infraction, like jaywalking and spitting on the sidewalk. Keep praying, but that God doesn't rescind His law!