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David Stanley Ford

Boom and Bust
Two towns. Two companies. Two different ways of life. Their fates both hinge on immigration.
Fates of two towns, two companies hinge on immigration

By Devona Walker    Comments Comment on this article79
Published: October 31, 2007

GUYMON — On a recent weekday, at least five of this agricultural community's hotels were booked. Room rates ranged from $54 — for motor lodge-like accommodations — to $80 at the Comfort Inn.

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Hooker City Clerk Linda Holbert, Mayor Rod Childress and Police Chief Larry Hinds stand on Glaydas Street on Tuesday. By John Clanton, The OKlahoman

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A block behind U.S. 54, makeshift campgrounds were also full. Some RVs carried heat-seeking snowbirds. Most campers were construction crews from as far away as New Mexico. Seaboard Farms already employs about half the 10,000-person town. The out-of-state construction crews were in Guymon to help build a bio-diesel plant for the company.

"I'm grateful for Seaboard,” said Judy Beasley, of Guymon, who manages a local restaurant there. "If it weren't for Seaboard, Guymon would be a ghost town. Guymon would be just like Hooker.”

Tale of two cities
Guymon is booming. Just 18 miles northeast on U.S. 54 is Hooker, population 1,733. Its downtown, just three blocks long, is empty. Out-of-business signs cover the fronts of a dozen businesses.

In the high plains of the Panhandle, many rural agricultural communities like Hooker and Guymon struggle to reinvent themselves. In some cases, immigrant workers and the industries that employ them have been the difference between boom and bust.

Here, immigration is not just about politics. It's about opportunity, economic development and change. It's about survival.

Hooker: Bust town
Hooker, like many rural Southwest communities, is aging. It's diminished a bit further with each funeral. Children grow up and move away, few return. Those who remain commute for work: Some off to Guymon to work at Seaboard, others to Liberal, Kan., to work at National Beef.

There, hopes of reversing the trend of dwindling population and commerce has hinged on immigration.

Plans dry up

Smithfield Foods had planned to open a meatpacking plant in Hooker. It would have brought revenue, about 3,500 employees just to work the plant, and up to as many as 10,000 new community residents.

A few months ago, however, Smithfield abruptly shelved those plans. Company officials stopped returning phone calls from Hooker city leaders about the same time its North Carolina meat plant was busted in a massive Immigration and Customs Enforcement raid.

Recently, a message appeared on the company Web site about indefinitely delaying construction in Hooker and blaming the delays on "worker shortages.”

Industry experts and Panhandle residents assume it is immigration worries that have Smithfield jumping ship.

"Here, we have an unemployment rate of less than 2 percent, so those workers had to come from somewhere,” Assistant Police Chief Raymond Holbert said. "They're just not here.”

Within the past few years, Hooker has watched several businesses close their doors, including the lumber yard, a few insurance companies, a construction firm and a furniture store.

Commuting for everything

"Some went away, and some just died,” said Hooker City Clerk Linda Holbert, who is married to Raymond Holbert. "We've been trying really hard to bring in business.”

These days, residents find themselves commuting for just about everything other than groceries and religion. Hooker is still home to one grocery store and three churches.

During the time that Smithfield was courting the town, however, the phone at City Hall was ringing off the hook. There were inquiries from national chain restaurants and retailers, all looking to purchase or lease commercial space in Hooker.

When federal immigration officers raided that North Carolina plant, it all came to a screeching halt.

City leaders reluctantly are continuing to prepare for Smithfield's arrival, but many are now skeptical.

Guymon: Boomtown
Much of Guymon's growth and industry has been fueled by a largely immigrant work force, residents said. Thousands migrated to the area to work at Seaboard. Dozens of businesses opened to serve them, as well as Seaboard's growing management team.

For a time, Guymon was fiercely divided on the subject of Seaboard. There were ranchers in the outlying areas who were apprehensive, knowing the huge plant would consume much of the area's precious water resources. There were homesteaders who balked at the stench. And there was a vocal minority who resented the scores of immigrants that came with the plant.

At Eddie's Steakhouse in Guymon, a steady flow of dinner customers filed through the door. Among them were a party of Scots, some Australians and a table of Japanese men in town to do business with Seaboard.

"More money is coming in. It's been good on tips,” said Janna Horner, 25, who works as a bartender. "If they weren't here, this would be a little ghost town. It's good for us. The more tips, the better.”

Billy Scarborough, 31, runs the Hide Out, a local bar. Its customers are primarily college students from nearby Oklahoma Panhandle State University. He also gets a fair number of "cowboys,” hunters who gravitate to the area during deer season.

He has lived in Guymon his whole life. He has watched it grow. He's also felt some of its growing pains.

He also says there's been a slight increase in crime, specifically vandalism and gang activity. Last year, there was even a drive-by shooting.

"That's something we never had around here before. But personally, I think, you've gotta take the bad with the good,” Scarborough said. "Anytime a town grows, it's good for everybody.It brings in tax revenue. Property values double. It brings money into the town.”

As the population grew from about 7,000 to 10,000 people, the increase in crime was expected, he said. At the bar, there has been trouble, but usually not with immigrants.

"The thing I like about this place is that we are able to bring all these races together without there being trouble. We play rap, Mexican music, rock and country,” Scarborough said.

"To tell you the truth, the only ones we ever have problems with are the cowboys.”

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David Stanley Ford




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First of all, I'm from Hooker. You people need to check your facts about Hooker before writing a whole story about how the town is almost empty. We have many more than 3 churches. There are at least 7 that I can think of off the top of my head. Recently we have gained a few businesses downtown. But yes we have lost some important businesses. I could rant about the illegals for days, but my main point right now is that you need to check your facts before writing a story.
Sarah, Hooker - Nov 3, 2007 at 11:51 am
That would be a lot more believable then Dave. But, I think that a lot of that number is from sources other than illegal immigrants. There are millions of TIN numbers that have been issued to date and the people that have those do not have to be legal and are collecting returns.
Jan, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:40 pm
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Jan,the bill was signed with Mexico in 1996.
Dave, Blue Rapids - Nov 1, 2007 at 5:46 pm
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Right number but not the right information concerning the 520 billion being for one year. I would be curious to know what time frame the 520 billion is spread over though. I didn't think there was any way possible for it to be a one year time frame.
Jan, Norman - Nov 1, 2007 at 11:33 am
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Quote: Illegal Mexican Workers Could Receive Billions of Dollars from U.S. Social Security System

January 4, 2007 (Washington, DC) – After numerous refusals over three and a half years, the Social Security Administration (SSA) has released the first known public copy of the U.S.-Mexico Social Security Totalization Agreement. The government made the disclosure in response to lawsuits filed under the Freedom of Information Act by TREA Senior Citizens League, a 1.2 million member nonpartisan seniors advocacy group.

The Totalization Agreement could allow millions of illegal Mexican workers to draw billions of dollars from the U.S. Social Security Trust Fund.

A loophole in current Social Security law could allow millions of today's Mexican workers to eventually collect billions of dollars worth of Social Security benefits for earnings under fraudulent or "non-work authorized" Social Security numbers, putting huge new pressures on the Social Security Trust Fund.

If an illegal worker working in the United States today gets a "work authorized" Social Security number through guest worker immigration legislation, the Totalization Agreement, or perhaps just over time, that worker could eventually apply for Social Security benefits once he or she has met eligibility requirements.

In addition, that worker could be able to claim credits for work performed while in the U.S. illegally. The SSA maintains an "earnings suspense file," which tracks wages that cannot be posted to individual workers' records because there is no match for a name and Social Security number. Once an immigrant gains access to a work authorized Social Security number – whether a legal citizen or not – wages earned while in the U.S. unlawfully could be reinstated to the worker's new Social Security account.

The Congressional Research Service reports the earnings suspense file currently stands at approximately $520 billion. According to the congressional testimony of SSA Inspector General Patrick P. O'Carroll in February 2006, "We believe the chief cause of wage items being posted to the earnings suspense file instead of an individual's earning record is unauthorized work by non citizens."

Dave, Blue Rapids - Nov 1, 2007 at 8:30 am
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Kathy what source did you get the information from regarding the amount of taxes paid in 2005 that were unmatched with social security numbers? It's an absolute impossibility that the number is that high. There are only 300 million people in the united states, when you subtract the number of people from that who are not working you are left with probably 200 million or less. Now, figure in that a great MANY people working in the US have a TIN number that they use to file taxes. I think that at last count there were 50 million TIN numbers issued over the last 5 years. But, even if you take 200 million eligible workers paying taxes and subtract for the legitimate people that are paying taxes with correct social security numbers or TINs you would be left with maybe 50 million illegal workers. I don't think it's anywhere near that high. But, they would have to PAY in a minimum of 10,000 each in taxes. That's just not happening and you cannot in any intelligent sense think that it is. I don't even pay in that much and I make a great deal more money than what the illegal immigrants are rumored to be making. There is also the fact that over 22 billion was issued in refunds to non US citizens holding a TIN number and the fact of whether they are illegal or not was not counted by the IRS so they could have been mostly illegal or mostly not. We'll never know.
Jan, Norman - Nov 1, 2007 at 7:37 am
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christiana and rufus, your characterization of the issue , is both shallow and weak. Plenty of Americans work low paying jobs. from an economic,moral, argument it is actually counter productive to scapegoat illigals, and it wont solve social problems such as crime or lack of jobs, actualy it will make these problems worse! Just because most Americans take the bully side of the argument ,does not mean they are correct. for example most Americans supported the IRAQ war, wow, look at the counterproductive results, why ? cause it also was based on misinformation and half truths and out and out lies. America is on the decline , why>? the way we write laws, the way the law works etc, all geared at making a system that will fleech the taxpayers for corporate want ,needs and greed. America if you want to get your problems solved,,get a heart and or a brain!
keith, oklahoma city - Nov 1, 2007 at 6:10 am
Here's a solution. The jobs that illegals are doing for low pay that no one else wants - when they go, put our inmates to work and they can do it....FOR FREE
Christina, Shawnee - Nov 1, 2007 at 4:45 am
The only jobs in Guymon go to illegal aliens and the businesses that cater to them. Good riddance. The crime rate will drop by 95% once they are gone.
Rufus, spencer - Oct 31, 2007 at 10:32 pm
the corporations have created this problem, tax them, or the taxpayer can shoulder it ,cause they dont have the balls to stand up to the corporations and the rich, and instead pick on the poor, lol,sad wont change a thing, you all are peons , serfs and have to bully illigals whom neither write the law or enforce it, to make y our selves seem big,,well guess what you are really nothing to those whom own this country,
keith, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 7:05 pm
destroyed that is,lol
keith, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 7:03 pm
cale , I am impressed you totally distroyed these rightwinged bigots , whom neither know American history nor God, easy as apple pie,,great job!
keith, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 7:02 pm
If a company locates to a region that does not have near the workers to staff their business they are idiots bound to go out of business anyway. Anyone knowingly renting houses to illegals is already breaking the law it doesn't matter their age. you might inform your grandmother to find some legal tenants before she has legal problems of her own. Marianna, why is it impossible to obtain a legal work permit in the USA? I understand it takes many years to become a citizen. One example of illegals affecting me is that most of them drive - illegally and with no insurance - so every month my insurance premium is higher because I have to pay for uninsured motorists. That is a crock although its not entirely the fault of illegals, but a majority (not necessarily the fault of the illegals but due to current laws it is a fact). Also, by not having tighter control of the borders, it is compromising the safety for citizens in the USA. I am totally in support of making it affordable and attainable for anyone from any country to be able to visit, go to school, or work here in the USA from another country; but to be documented and do it LEGALLY.
Lawerence, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Well Jakey-boy, The Nazi analogy seems a bit harsh does it? Well, let's look at our own country. Harriett Tubman broke the law with the underground railroad. It was illegal to harbor "negroes" about the same time. Let's not forget that Rosa Parks broke the LAW in Alabama by refusing to give up her seat to a white man. So what do you think Jake, are all laws to be followed reguardless of the morality behind them? I'm quite sure that had anyone "taken a vote" in the south after the civil war that those states would have legalized slavery but guess what, the federal government trumped that nonsense. I can go on and on about the LAWS that this country enacted to make sure that minorities were left sucking hind tit. Were those laws moral Jake? Would you have broken those laws? Burning draft cards used to be illegal but enough people broke that law and look what happened. The law was changed and lily-white, not get our hands dirty people like you never had to put your ass on the line for this country. And IF I'M wrong about that, at least you had the option of fighting an unjust war. It's only when laws get broken that change occurs not tacit nodding. Again, ask the black man in this country or ask a jew in Nazi Germany. I'm pretty sure that they were damned glad that some people refused to obey an unjust law.
Cale, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 6:47 pm
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who has to pay to house the illegals in jail, and for them to get back to mexico, nigeria, korea, japan, canada, germany, scotland, italy, etc...? is oklahoma going to just pay for any illegal in the country that wants a free trip home? well im for it if they take me on vacation too..its going to cost us one.
Randy, Moore - Oct 31, 2007 at 5:45 pm
What I dont understand is where the HB states that illegals will not get free public assistance. The Health Care Authorities just passed a bill stating that they will provide free medical care for pregnant illegals! Can someone explain that? Thanks
violet, yukon - Oct 31, 2007 at 5:20 pm
This pretty well says it all! Quote: Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.
Dave, Blue Rapids - Oct 31, 2007 at 4:56 pm
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jakey,no need to give any hardcore statistics, people believe what they choose to believe, besides many people are on my side and from what i have read are very capable of making your side look as foolish as you are. I never make stuff up sir, get over it!I research.
keith, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 4:48 pm
I had a roommate my freshman year of college from Guymon. From everything she told me, the Seaboard factory brought a lot of jobs but the town smells like dead pigs and that crime is huge up there. She moved to the city for college and she couldn't believe how little crime she actually saw compared to home. She knows that crime is high here in the city but she said per capita it seems like it's a lot less. The only thing she didn't like about the city was the traffic. She also said there were so many people living in her town that could not speak english that some of their kids had to translate for them just to get checks cashed from work. That's how bad it is up there. Some of those kids don't even go to school because they can't get enrolled because parents can't fill out the forms. So tell me how this will hurt exactly?
Rachel, Del City - Oct 31, 2007 at 4:35 pm
http://www.hb1804.org/ This is a web site that shows a vote (obviously not a complete vote). 61% agree with HB 1804.

http://www.gorena.org/OK-HB1804.htm This is a link to the actual bill. It's a good thing. We need this to stay a law and it needs to be enforced!
Pam, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 4:13 pm
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Jake you are so right!
Pam, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 4:08 pm
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Keith, do you ever do anything on these forums but babble and make stuff up? I have yet to have seen you do otherwise.
Jason, Edmond - Oct 31, 2007 at 3:59 pm
I also live in the panhandle and no that seaboard is having a hard time finding employess because of the oil field right wages right now. Seaboard does have a lot of white people (so to speak) working for them as well, they are not all spanish. Yes unemployment is 2% right now but would not be that low without seaboard. People need to understand that the panhandle is not going to get a computer chip plant or car plant, we do not have the infustructe for it. So ag related is all is going to be. I have friend in other parts of that state that will tell you that without illegals commerce would close down. Because most people do not want to do the jobs that illegals do.
Rick, Guymon - Oct 31, 2007 at 3:59 pm
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Kathy, all that silly blubbering of yours is pointless. Your position would mean that we could justify the breaking of any law if only the "economics" somehow justified it. The bottom line is this: Illegal means I-l-l-e-g-a-l. If you don't like the current law, lobby Congress to get it democratically changed to let anyone in the world in who wants in (which is your position). Until then, follow the law. What is so hard to grasp about that simple proposition?
Jason, Edmond - Oct 31, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Cale, comparing the actions people took to hide Jews from the Nazi death camps to this situation is highly offensive, and renders you intellectually unfit to be involved in a conversation with decent people. I swear, you pro-illegal alien types are beyond hysterical, you're actually unhinged. -TRJFE
Jason, Edmond - Oct 31, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Well Pawpaw, at least you're not playing the smarmy race card like you were the other day on this topic, now you're just whining. That's an improvement, I'd say. -TRJFE
Jason, Edmond - Oct 31, 2007 at 3:49 pm
The fate of a LOT more people depends on these people leaving this state. I'm tired of hearing how tough it is for them and how it's going to negatively effect us if they leave. What utter propaganda. I want them all out and I want them out today.
T. A., Moore - Oct 31, 2007 at 3:45 pm
There are many statistics that I believe people are not taking notice of with this issue that may have an adverse affect on everyone.

According to this very newspaper, and I qoute "the National Academy of Sciences, Cato Institute, and the Social Security Administration have all stated that illegal immigrants contribute substantially more in taxes than they consume in services. For instance, the Social Security Administration's "suspense file,” containing paid-in taxes that cannot be matched to a Social Security number, was at $519 billion in 2005." That is just in 2005! Take away 12 million people who are in this country illegally, but also have taxes taken out of their paychecks, but never claim anything, and what happens to Social Security? It is already in distress.

According to Monica Rhor of the Associated Press, there are other complications that will arise with deportation. She writes "Under pressure to crack down on illegal immigrants, ICE (US Immigration and Customs Enforcement) has intensified enforcement activity around the country. The efforts have yielded results — since last May (2006), one particular crackdown, called Operation Return to Sender, has snared 13,000 people, while other federal initiatives have caught thousands of others. But the raids have led to a growing outcry from immigrant advocates and activists who say thousands of families are being split apart." (see www.voiceofwitness.com/news_archive5.html These children are US Citizens! When their parents are deported, the children are put in the social service system if there is not appropriate childcare available. Families will be torn apart and the already over-burdened social service agencies will be flooded with new cases.

For those that may not be informed, almost all immigrants here in this country want to become legal. Some have been here since they were children themselves. This is the only country they know. There is NO CLEAR path for them to follow to obtain citizenship. They want to be here as citizens. They are already a productive member of our society. All they want is a better life for themselves and their families that is not available in their original country.

May I also remind the readers that this state was built on people that wanted the same thing - to build a better life for themselves and their families. They participated in the run of 1889. Some of them broke the law to achieve this. Many readers may be decendants of those very people that broke the law (therefore nicknamed "Sooner".

Why are these points not being brought forward to educate all Oklahomans of the negative effect this bill will have on our economy?
Kathy, Edmond - Oct 31, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Pam: My feelings exactly. Why is it that some of these people just don't get it? Yes, the illegals should have thought of what would happen in the future. You are right, if you or I broke the law, we would go to jail and be separated from our families. The people that are here illegally have a choice, they can go back where they came from.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Harvey: It is too bad that we all can't be perfect like you. At least, I do obey "THE LAWS OF THE LAND." Can you say the same? NO!!!!!! As for that little ole white haired grandmother looking landlady of yours, if she is breaking the law, then she should go to jail. You really do not think she is doing this out of the goodness of her heart, do you? It is all about money!!!!!
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 1:33 pm
I've read every post on here and believe me, this is a subject that hits close to home. I live in Hooker and work in Guymon. I think I may be the only person in this discussion that is on the fence over this issue. I was raised in Hooker, went to college in Stillwater, moved to Dallas after graduation and then moved back to Hooker to work for a bank in Guymon. I CHOSE to move back. I want to raise a family in a small town setting because honestly, I see nothing wrong with knowing every person you graduate high school with. It's true that of the 36 people I graduated with, roughly 5 or 6 are still in the area. The Seaboard issue has opened many, many doors of opportunity here (and I don't just mean working FOR Seaboard). Now, we've taken the good with the bad, which is inevitable in instances like this. Our crime rate has not "slightly increased" over the past ten years but, has skyrocketed. This cannot be blamed solely on the illegals. There are kids of all colors that are trouble-makers...but, there are kids of all colors that are good, hardworking kids. I coach a little league baseball team and I don't have any kids of my own. On this year's team, it was about 50%-50% white kids to spanish kids. All of whom were the best I could ask for. I got to know these kids and would do anything for them. Now, as far as the gang-related activity, yes, it is on the rise. Consequently, it is on the rise in lots of places. Now, the Smithfield plant coming in is another issue. I would say that 95% of the community does not want it to come in. Hooker is a town of 1,200 people. They say they can use 3,500 people to fill jobs. Look at it this way...if all of those 3,500 people have a spouse and 2 children...that's 14,000 people injected into our area. Currently, we have about 20,000 in the county. There is no way we can supply the nessecary utilities for new people. We don't have the money and the state of Oklahoma does not intend to help us out. I have written our elected officials and so have many, many people. From what we can tell, our voices have not been heard and it has done no good, whatsoever. The officials want the tax dollars from the plant, that is the bottom line. Here is my question for them...would they want the plant in Mooreland (Terry Peach, Commissioner of Agriculture), Guthrie, Edmond, Norman, Moore, Lawton, etc? Sorry to have gone on with my rant but, like I said, this is a subject that hits close to home.
Aaron, Hooker - Oct 31, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Keith, I was referring to Harvey's statement about "white women." I am a Caucasian, over 40, pay my taxes, don't break the law (no, I don't even speed on the highway) and I am sick and tired of paying for everyone else's whatever it is they think I should pay for. I am not being self righteous either. I am speaking the truth. These people are here illegally and they know it. They came here with that knowledge. Harvey, I am sorry for your landlady and I am sorry for all the women who will lose their husbands and I am sorry for all the families that will be torn apart. However, before I got married and before I had children, I made sure that I was prepared for whatever my actions might bring me. The illegal immigrans should have also thought about the possiblity of what could happen. I do not feel responsible for the breakup of their families no more than I feel responsible for the breakup of families when some has to go to prison for breaking the law.
Pam, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 1:11 pm
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Breaking News headline! Illegal immigrants only ones willing to work for illegal wages.
Dean, Newcastle - Oct 31, 2007 at 1:03 pm
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Earl-the penalties for someone harboring(renting to), transporting, or employing an illegal is a felony under the law. I am guessing that the owners of businesses and properties here are predominately American whether White, Black, Brown, Red, Yellow. The point is my little no non-sense whitehaired grandma looking landlady will have to evict all her illegal tenants otherwise she is guilty of a felony. You need to clear the cobwebs out before responding. You are so far off base, maybe a little more herb will help. It is medicinal you know.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 12:42 pm
cale i agree, in germany they have swat teams take out racists,, we need to do the same here!
keith, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I agree repeal this crap ,its economically ,morally and logically ,stupid and counterproductive! GOD help us, we have kkk and nazi pushing these laws as usual, we need swat teams to go in and take them out, with a shot between the eyes! GOd bless America!
keith, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 12:20 pm
It was illegal to hide jews from the Nazis too. Hmmmmmm I wonder who took the right path?
Cale, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 12:19 pm
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pam , white is not a race, most caucasians are actually brown, shows what people know, dont believe me , well do some research.white lol,,get real,. its a color,no more no less , your are no different from any other human being, get over yourself!
keith, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Mariana.. Since you can not navigate on this site very well, I will repeat. Native Americans lost their way of life and culture due to us "Anglos" pushing our beliefs and language on them. The EXACT same thing is happening now. We are suppose to conform to their language, beliefs ect. It is also allowing companies to lower wages.
rick - Oct 31, 2007 at 11:58 am
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Where are the supporters gathering? At the same place?
violet, yukon - Oct 31, 2007 at 11:52 am
Harvey: This angry "white woman" will show up! But it will not be for repeal! It will be in support of upholding the law!
Pam, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 11:44 am
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PawPaw for Governor. He sounds like the only non-emotional one on the posts that has an accurate assessment of the situation. REPEAL HB 1804! Janice-read your other blog way to go with keeping control of yourself all these years. I do believe in personal discipline as well.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 11:19 am
Legal today, illegal tomorrow? C'mon Harvey, you're living in la-la-land.

Earl, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 11:18 am
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I am aware that these people are here illegally. The way the system works right now makes it impossible for these people to gain legal status. Are you opposed against providing a way for them to gain legal status? BTW, how have illegals affected your "American way of life?" The majority learn/speak english and adapt to the "American life."
Mariana, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 11:18 am
Does anyone recall the term CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE. Today law bidding citizens are not criminals for employing an illegal, or housing, or transporting one. Tomorrow, all of todays law bidding citizens will become potential convicted FELONS under the law. I would encourage civil disobedience. However, a felony would be hard for anyone to overcome. Therefore, for the repeal of HB 1804 to succeed-friends of immigrants legal or illegal, wives, husbands, girlfriends, boyfriends, preachers, employers, anyone that holds immigrants in any kind of esteem needs to scream bloody murder. Tomorrow is a demonstration at the Capitol at 12:00-2:00. The protest before this law came into effect wasn't great enough to prevent its passage. Don't be complacent and let a chance to REPEAL this law slip away. I hope thousands of angry women show up. HA! Yes, that includes White Women-(accusation toward me from previous blog)
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 11:11 am
These breathing people you are referring to are CRIMINALS. They are here ILLEGALLY! Make yourself legal or GO HOME.

And for PAWPAW. I have a job thank you. A very good paying one. One of the requirements is to be a US Citizen, and the other is to speak English. I'm not worried about losing my job to an illegal immigrant. What I am worried about is the safety, security and well being of my family, my neighbors, and my way of life. You should try pulling your head out and looking at what you are supporting, the destruction of the "American way of life as we know it".
rick - Oct 31, 2007 at 11:01 am
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some of these comments make me sad to be from Oklahoma, these are breathing people we are talking about, i know it makes it easier to look down your noses at these people when you call them illegals, and i would be willing to bet that most of the hateful comments are coming out of the mouths of self proffesed Christians. Jesus was all about love, which it seems gets thrown to the wayside for some of people. Also I find it laughable to talk about guymon as being a rough city, full if gangs running the streets. Take a stroll through parts of NE OKC if you wanna see gangs running the streets. Terrill referring to this as modern day slavery is probablly the most irresponsible and idiotic thing I have ever heard, terill is nothing but a cancer. But above all else this is a federal issue, which doesn't seem to matter to any of you dedending this bill and the moron terill. If half of your were this passionate about the huge child abuse problem our state has, I guarnentee we wouldn't be leading the country in child abuse.
blake, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 10:43 am
I find it sadly ironic that Oklahomans, living in what was the Last Frontier, don't see how the immigrants, "legal" or "illegal", mirror the reasons why pioneers moved west (often illegally, just ask any Indian). They want a better life for themselves, their children, and their grandchildren. They are willing to move to a strange land, work very, very hard, and put up with all kinds of hardships. Those who have wanted this bill had better get ready. The Cherokee Strip is about to go back to the buffalo.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 10:31 am
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I find it sadly ironic that Oklahomans, living in what was the Last Frontier, don't see how the immigrants, "legal" or "illegal", mirror the reasons why pioneers moved west (often illegally, just ask any Indian). They want a better life for themselves, their children, and their grandchildren. They are willing to move to a strange land, work very, very hard, and put up with all kinds of hardships. Those who have wanted this bill had better get ready. The Cherokee Strip is about to go back to the buffalo.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 10:31 am
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Pawpaw, of Ardmore, all good points. Way to bring the real issues to the front! Keep asking questions... I also would like to know the obstacles to coming in this country legally to work (not visit). I've tried researching what one would have to do to immigrate here to pick veggies or work in a meat packing plant. I gotta tell you, it's very complex, time consuming & expensive, even when a person CAN qualify for a work visa category. If you’re interested in what visas are out there, here is a link: http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/immigrants_1340.html
Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Oct 31, 2007 at 10:29 am
Steve, thank you for the update on Terrill's muni/country club status. A Republican from the metro area -- I ought not profile.

If what you say is correct, what occurs when a workforce with already record-low unemployment levels (dangerously low in the opinion of some economists), is forced to absorb jobs that are vacated?

Naturally, higher wages are involved. Companies won't simply eat this. They'll pass it along to the consumer -- regardless of industry -- in the form of higher prices. As they should.

Or, companies shut down.

So, golf analogy aside, be ready for higher prices.

If you're fine with that, so am I. But let's not pretend we're going to live in a lily-white world and assume insurance savings are going to foot the bill.
John, Ada - Oct 31, 2007 at 10:29 am
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John from ADA if you knew Randy Terrill you would know that he is not a high income guy nor does he hang out on Oak Tree. Don't you think that one of the benefits of this is that companies will now have to pay a living wage to get American workers or go out of business. This will take care of the pressure to raise the minimum wage because the market will raise it now. The number of uninsured in the state will go down as the illegals flee and costs for all of us will be reduced to offset your 'mowing cost increase'.
Steven, Guthrie - Oct 31, 2007 at 10:19 am
To all the right-sided, right-minded, holier-than-thou's reading, who's gonna mow your fairways and rough next spring? Who's gonna water the greens next summer to keep them from burning up? If it's legals, great. But be ready to pay higher green fees and/or country club dues.

When Terrill can't find his Titleist in the Oak Tree's 8-inch bermuda rough, we may have a repeal movement.
John, Ada - Oct 31, 2007 at 10:08 am
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Have these poor not for profit companies such as SEABOARD ever thought about paying a decent wage and benifits and hiring legal workers.
Herron, Blanchard - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:39 am
Racist Chris, you want racist? Well, I find your comment "I'm a builder and I see how hard many of the white folk want to work." to be one of the most racist remarks on this board. I've also worked in construction and there are hard working and lazy people in every race. So your comment is totally racist.
T. A., Moore - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:37 am
Chris: Illegal is illegal regardless of how you try to justify it. If you are dishonest in one area, you would be dishonest in all areas. I would not want you to build a house for me. With your dishonest attitude, you would probably use inferior material and the house would fall to the ground in a couple of years. There is NO excuse that can justify breaking the law!!!!!!
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:36 am
This is jut one more in a long line of boohoo storoes by the Oklahoman that supports the invasion and take over of this state. But the fact that meat in these companies is all being processed by illegal invaders is just one more reason to become a vegan.
T. A., Moore - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:31 am
Pawpaw, you are right. This board is full of people that are down-right racist (like Janice) and make things up to support their position. I'm a builder and I see how hard many of the white folk want to work. I've seen guys complain about Mexicans lowering their wages and these guys were making $14+ an hour. They HATE the fact that Hispanics can do the same work they can do, will work harder, for less money. All of these blow-hards screaming about how illegals are ruining our country will be the same people complaining when prices rise on everything from produce to new homes.
Chris, Warr Acres - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:21 am
I see no reason for any child to starve in this nation. There are far too many resource for that to happen. Most food pantries won't help you unless you have proof of citizenship.There are many jobs out there that US citizens won't take because the simply don't want to work that hard to earn their money.
Mariana, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:21 am
Burt, it wasn't the boom, it was the bust, that got 'em. And since when is it the victim's fault? Did they dress inappropriately and invite it? Towns gotta go with what the towns have (like Rummy said about the army) and most of them do not have the economic advisers and "rainmakers" that are needed to diversify their economies, nor do they have the tax base or tax incentives available to cities like Edmond. How reassuring it is to live in a city with a "suitcase college" handily appended to the state's capitol. Surely would love to see a real solution from people with all those resources. Could be a real help to all the "dumb a's" elsewhere in the state.
Percy F., Ardmore - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:17 am
As a former Guymonite, this is the most hyped up tripe I've read in a long time. The crime rate has sky-rocketed, there are gangs running the streets, it's not safe to even walk after dark anymore. It used to be a safe place to raise kids.
I was there when Swift was in operation. there were some illegals, but INS was there at least twice a month to check and make sure everyone they had deported stayed deported.
And when Swift shut their doors, Guymon didn't become a ghost town, there's too much oil money for that to ever happen.
patti, el reno - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:16 am
I agree with RICK!!!
Thanks
asHLEA, bLANCHARD - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:15 am
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:14 am
TODAY IS THE BIG DAY, "TRICK OR TREAT" YOU RENEGADE ILLEGALS!!! YOU BROUGHT THIS ON YOURSELF!!!
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:13 am
I think that if they are not legal, they need to go back to their own country. ALL illegal aliens.....There are not enough jobs as it is for true US citizens. There are us citizens doing things the legal way and struggling to make ends meet. Our own children in this country are starving and were helping out everyone else, giving free food and benefits that are us and state funded assistance progams to illegal aliens, and those us citizens that really need it can not obtain it, because the money is already exhausted from all the illegal aliens taking it all.
signed,
Concerned US Citizen
asHLEA, bLANCHARD - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:12 am
Burt from Edmond, what in the world do you think a town of 10,000 out in the middle of the pandhandle can do to diversify its economy? A town like Guymon is just darn glad to get what they can! Pull your head out of the sand!
Chris, Warr Acres - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:12 am
Very well put pawpaw. Obviously this country has been fine for the last 5o yrs because the very people you want out has been here all this time.
Mariana, oklahoma city - Oct 31, 2007 at 9:11 am
Any town(s) in this nation that base their economy on a single industry deserves everything it gets when things go "south". Remember the oil boom of the late 70's? Seems like these towns have a very short memory. The now act like a bunch of dumb A's.
burt, edmond - Oct 31, 2007 at 8:51 am
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Wrong, Mike, and you didn't even try a solution! Not a bleeding heart; got no use for law breakers of any stripe (pun), but my tax money is at stake here! If the federal government won't enforce its laws how did Oklahomans get elected to do it for them? Come on, Mike, use that brain of yours, give the expletives a rest and just try to keep up for a change. Challenge time, babe, are you up to it? Maybe you better get Rick to help you; he seems to have about the same inability to deal with genuine argument and needs to make stuff up in order to keep up. Hey, there are three of you now, and all three of you can't come up with a good solution between you? Wow, no wonder the immigrants are taking your jobs--your interviews must suck.
Percy F., Ardmore - Oct 31, 2007 at 8:16 am
Well,it's typical media hype. Companies are all about keeping the cheap labor around to fatten the bottom line. What companies and our government aren't looking at amazes me. If decent paying jobs are taken away, who will buy the products and services? When you outsource all of the jobs to other countries or move the cheap labor here, there will be no one with jobs left to purchase the goods. It's kinda the same boat Mexico is in now. Work for cheap, and only be able to survive. Pawpaw, maybe you should consider uprooting your family and moving to Guymon to go live amongst all of these hard workers and offer your support. That way you can live the lifestyle you are wanting to bring here. I can tell you what it will be 3,500 people barely scraping by and stealing everything you own to better themselves. It's the only way they can because their job barely supports them. They are looking at old "Gringo" who seems to be doing pretty good for himself, so he can share with the rest of us.
rick - Oct 31, 2007 at 7:58 am
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pawpaw.. I hear you bleeding heart, but you know? what did we do before the flood of illegals came. We did just fine if I recall the last 50 years correctly. And we will do just fine without them. The ends by any means and all of the economics of it are just red herrings. Nice try though.
Mike, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 6:52 am
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Let's not forget anything. There is a demand for a product and somebody is going to fill that demand. It works with drugs, alcohol, tobacco, child restraint systems, mousetraps and immigration. We said please stand in line and wait your turn, follow the rules and we might let you come play with us. No matter how impecuniously they are paid here in this country it is a virtual bankroll compared to what they can make in their communities outside this country. Even with the small pittances they make here, they manage to send some back home to support more family! Sensible to get them into this country legally? Of course. Duh. The problem is that it is not working. And to punish some people with felonies for helping some people commit misdemeanors isn't going to work either. If the law is enforced, and I assume you really, really, really want it enforced, there will be so many of these "helpers" and "users" in prison we'll have to hire the illegals to build more! You also want the cheapest labor, right? And the fence around this country will cost a pretty penny, too. I guess it won't be just a stockade fence like in our neighborhoods; probably more like the great wall of China. And the anti-tunnelling devices and the anti-fly-over devices and the anti-breakthrough devices will have to be paid for, and built with something other than our cheapest labor sources, as well. Otherwise, there's just more "smuggling" profit, right? Oh, and don't forget the cost of lettuce and tomatos and celery and cotton and (you put something here if you wish) will all increase, and then transportation costs will have to increase to cover that, and labor costs will go up, and, lordy how do you replace a workforce of 20 million illegals without paying a price? And the law enforcement costs? Astronomical! Better get your checkbook out, just hand it to the government and ask them to return to you whatever they don't need. No, the biggest liars here are those people who have no real solutions to very real problems! Like Oklahoma and Sen. Terril.
Percy F., Ardmore - Oct 31, 2007 at 6:43 am
I think we are now preaching to the choir. Those opposing the bill have no argument. They came here illegaly and they knew it was. It's been a good dance, now it's time to pay the piper.
Mike, Oklahoma City - Oct 31, 2007 at 6:26 am
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Let's not forget the smuggling trade as well. The whole illegal immigrant industry is as immoral as it gets. You have virtual slaves that have to work for next to nothing because they're manipulated into silence by their employers. They're truly caught in the middle. The biggest liars of the bunch are the opponents of the bill who can't just admit the sensible thing to do is get these people into the country LEGALLY.
Carol, Tuttle - Oct 31, 2007 at 4:47 am
"To tell you the truth, the only ones we ever have problems with are the cowboys.”
Percy F., Ardmore - Oct 31, 2007 at 4:14 am
testing
Carol, Tuttle - Oct 31, 2007 at 3:37 am
Ok...now I get it. This media blitz is orchestrated by newsok.com in order to incite protest against the immigration law. Is the entire state so crooked that it ignores our duly-elected representative government and placates and harbors firms that have run on "slave labor" for years? Do the ends really justify the means in order to line the pockets of greedy businessmen and churches that profit off the illegals?
Carol, Tuttle - Oct 31, 2007 at 3:09 am

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