Why don't all the people who came to this country illegally just sign up to become U.S. workers and citizens?
Advertisement
It's a simple question.
The answer is complex.
Let's say an Oklahoma City restaurant owner has a great cook working for him who slipped into this country illegally from Mexico five years ago.
The owner would like to keep the cook, so he decides to sponsor him for a work permit, also known as a green card, under employment-based immigration law.
The first obstacle may be cost.
Immigration filing fees tripled on July 30, said T. Douglas Stump, an immigration attorney with more than 24 years experience who practices in Oklahoma City and Tulsa.
The filing fee for an employer-sponsored green card is now $1,485, Stump said.
Attorney fees and other costs may add $5,000 or so to that cost, said Vance Winningham, another Oklahoma City immigration attorney with about 35 years of experience.
That can be an obstacle, but it's not the biggest one, Stump said.
The U.S. only grants 140,000 employment-based permits a year, and that includes spouses and children, he said. Preference categories favor highly skilled doctors, researchers, people with master's degrees and the like. And only 7.1 percent of the permits can be granted to persons from any specific country, Stump said.
There is a huge backlog of applicants.
So, even if the employer can show there is a shortage of U.S. workers available to fill a cook's job, there is still a 6
year wait just to get a green card for Hispanics from Mexico, Stump said.
But it gets worse.
"Under U.S. immigration laws, if you entered the country illegally, you can't get a green card here,” Stump said. "You have to go back to your home country.”
And, under a 1996 law, if a person leaves the country after having been in the U.S. illegally for more than a year, they can't come back for 10 years, he said.
"It's a terrible situation,” Stump said.
Family members who are U.S. citizens can sponsor relatives to come across the border to work, but there are long waiting lists there, too, Stump said.
It costs $1,365 to apply for a family-sponsored permit, he said. Attorney fees and other costs typically might add about $2,500, Winningham added.
Winningham said he has received a number of calls from Oklahoma U.S. citizens who are married to Hispanics who came here illegally. Many have lived together for several years and have children.
"Because they came here illegally, they cannot get a green card in the U.S.,” he said. "They would have to leave the U.S. and they are supposed to stay out 10 years before they can return unless they can obtain an extreme hardship waiver.”
How it gets tougher
Winningham said Mexico has been fairly good about granting extreme hardship waivers when children are involved, but it still takes months to process the requests, which can be awful for separated families living paycheck to paycheck.
Families have struggled with the situation for years, but now it gets even harder.
Today, one of the most stringent immigration enforcement bills in the nation takes effect in Oklahoma. It makes it illegal to hire, house, transport or conceal illegal immigrants.
"People are panicking,” Stump said. "We're being flooded with calls from panicked Oklahoma employers, scared landlords and worried health care professionals.”
Stump said he believes much of the fear is unfounded, but huge numbers of Hispanics are responding by making arrangements to leave the state.
"It's going to be in the tens of thousands,” he said, adding they are fleeing to Arkansas, Texas and other states they view as more friendly.
"It's going to have a terrible impact on the housing market and shopping in communities,” he said. "It will have a domino impact.”
Winningham agreed a lot of people are scared, but thought Stump's estimate of the number who would leave the state was high.
"I don't think it's going to be in the tens of thousands, but it could be 1,500 to 5,000,” he said.
So far, there is no evidence of any mass exodus from Oklahoma City schools, said Donald Claxton, spokesman for the district.
"We're down 76 kids across the district,” Claxton said, referring to all students, not just Hispanics. "We have 81 schools, so that's less than one per school, and some of those kids were suspended.
"We keep hearing that and we're watching, but we haven't seen any evidence of it yet.”
Thank you for joining our conversations on newsok. We encourage your discussions but ask that you stay within the bounds of our terms and conditions. Please help us by reporting comments that violate these guidelines. To review our rules of engagement, go to Commenting and posting policy.
I believe you will find it takes at least 2 million unskilled/low skilled laborers to provide food for 300 million citizens, not to mention the construction & landscape industries. I simply used 2 million, because it is 1/10th of the alleged illegal population in the US.
Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 8:33 am
Why do we need 2 million unskilled workers in the U.S.? I just read that the drop out rate in high schools is on the rise. That means we'll have plenty of unskilled laborers to take those jobs. Or would someone prefer that our unskilled labor force hit the streets become dependent on the government or rely on the drug trade, much of which is brought in by the illegals? Until the unemployment rate in this country reaches near "0" we don't need to import unskilled labor.
TA, of Moore, you must have read something into my statements that I did not intend. I happen to agree that illegal immigration MUST be stopped. I'm simply trying to understand the larger issues at play, because I don't think we (the country) can arrive at a solution without understand almost all of the aspects of the problem. Apparently you are not of a like mind. Now as to your criticism of my “made up statistics”, I did not make up any of the times & quotas that I posted. I did what my parents taught me & looked up the information myself. You can do the same at www.state.gov (the US State Dept. website.) So.. .. .. Just so you know how I arrived at 201 years to process 2 million unskilled or low skilled workers under the current system: I used (1) the figure from this article of 140,000 work visas issued yearly by the US, (2) the figures from this article and the US State Department website of no more than 7.1% of these visas can go to any one country and (3) simple mathematics. So if you take 2,000,000 applicants, multiply by 0.071 (which is 7.1%) you get 9940 work visas issued to any one country's citizens in a year. If we suppose that there are 2 million people from one country on an application list & you want to issue a visa to the 2 millionth, that is 2,000,000 applicants divided by 9940 applications allowed per year. With that you have 201 years until you get down the list to that person. You can use a calculator & check it out yourself. Not magic at all.. .. .. (And actually I thought I explained this in my previous post. Guess you didn't bother to read or understand it.)
Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Nov 1, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Teresa: I agree with what you are saying. My Mother, who is 87 years old, draws Social Security. She gets a measely $10.00 a month in food stamps. Can you believe DHS did an audit on my Mother,just over that $10.00 in food stamps? My Mother lives in a small town, 190 miles from Oklahoma City and they sent someone from Oklahoma City to do an audit on someone getting $10.00 a month in food stamps.
Teresa: I agree with what you are saying. My Mother, who is 87 years old, draws Social Security. She gets a measely $10.00 a month in food stamps. Can you believe DHS did an audit on my Mother,just over that $10.00 in food stamps? My Mother lives in a small town, 190 miles from Oklahoma City and they sent someone from Oklahoma City to do an audit on someone getting $10.00 a month in food stamps.
Knowing who is using one's SSN and being able to catch them and have them arrested are two different things. Especially when there are so many employers out there willing to protect their cheap labor.
Concerned, are you saying then that you believe these illegals aren’t contributing anything good to our society? I believe the condition of your heart is self describing when you continue to argue in support of invaders to this country using made up numbers and false information. You claim I cannot argue a legitimate argument or keeping things in context and then toss out a number like 201? Why don’t you make up a few more statistics and we’ll go at it again?
Thank you, Bud, for being a voice of sound reason and wisdom in this mess. We need more people like you who will speak truth. If my grandparents had been forced to go through the maze and expense of immigration as it currently stands, they would have died in Russia or been murdered in Germany. Ellis Island was bad enough; I recall my grandmother's stories, and how my great uncle was held back and almost deported because he was handicapped. Every generation has had its racial immigrant scapegoats, especially when the economy slumps. Why is it we never look at what the real issues are?
Robin, of Yukon, I don't feel there's anything wrong with skilled workers being first in line for visas, and it seems they are, under our current system. In fact the nearest I can tell, the quotas on workers with skills are higher, because 3 of the 5 types of employment visas are for highly skilled & skilled workers (extraordinary ability, advanced degrees, bachelor’s degrees, & technical trades.) Those three visa categories comprise 85.8% of our US work visas issued (3 x 28.6% each). The other 2 types of employment visas are: one visa class for investors ($0.5-1M required & employing at least 10 people) and one visa class for media, ministers & foreign nationals working for the US government. I think you have to go to the temporary agricultural worker visa to see anything available for unskilled workers. As I think about this issue we are all grappling with, it looks to me like we are talking almost entirely about low skilled workers (people don't talk of illegal lawyers, doctors, accountants, scientists, athletes, entertainers, missionaries, etc.) From the US state Department's website, it also appears that the highly skilled and skilled worker visa classes are filled first & any left over slots are carried to the next visa classification. Now, I think if business needs are driving the federal government’s reluctance to enforce the immigration rules, then those same businesses should start pushing for reform of the system that has, according to them, left them without a general laborer class of employees.
Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Nov 1, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Earth to newsok.com....get over it...move on. Your media blitz didn't work and didn't succeed in giving Oklahoma the impression that the majority was against the bill (a paltry 1001 signatures???). I can only lay blame at the editor's feet... move on to a different paper.
TA, just out of curiosity.... if you have been unable to track down the person who is using your social security number, how do you know it's an illegal using it? And if you do know it was an illegal, what harm was caused by their paying in additional social security taxes under your number? Or did they use it for something more and assume your identity as well?
TA of Moore, just try to find a posting where I stated 'they contribute good things' & that 'immigrants are too ignorant'. You must have confused me with someone else. I have already stated in this thread that I support strict border & port enforcement. And pardon me, but you do not know my history of identity theft, nor the condition of my heart, so don't make assumptions. I simply asked you a question & illustrated by example how many years it would take to process unskilled workers into this country under the current visa program. You obviously don't know how to respond in an open discussion, or else you would have come back with discussion points & not a flame. And just so you can place it in context, 3 years, heck even 10 years, is well within a person's lifetime. 201 years is not.
Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Nov 1, 2007 at 10:59 am
Concerned, on one hand you argue that they are unable to pay the fees to become legal and yet we hear story after bleeding heart story about how they've paid thousands to get a coyote to bring them here. Likewise, you try to argue on one hand that they are contributing good things to our state and then argue that they're too ignorant to fill out the paperwork and go through the legal process. As for your argument that it takes too long to go through this process; well, how many years do you think it takes a legal citizen to get their social security number cleared after some illegal invader stole it so they could work? I’ve been trying for three years now and still haven’t tracked down the illegal invader criminal that’s been using it. So, you can save your bleeding heart stories for someone who's never been their victim.
TA, of Moore, so do you see this as most illegals 'chosing not to do it the legal way' or 'unable to do it the legal way'? In other words, if you want to immigrate from Mexico, and have the funds to pay your way, and you are the 2 millionth person on the US State Department list from Mexico, you'll only have to wait until they process people at a rate of 9940 per year (7.1% of 140,000 visas)to get your visa. At that rate it will ONLY take 201 YEARS to get to your name on the list and grant your visa.
Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Nov 1, 2007 at 10:32 am
It's a shame so many can't see the forest for the trees. Reading the postings here, you'd think illegals were the blame for ALL our social problems. Everything from rising medical costs to why a woman can't get child support is the fault of the illegals. And the Oklahoman even gets a shate of the blame for pointing out the real truth about immigration laws (not the half baked, what your neighbor told you truth), and what effect the law may have on families. Wake up people! Illegals aren't the source of all our problems. We're sending enough money OUT of this country everyday in support of foreign countries to pay for multiple times the number of illegals working IN our country. And by the way, illegals DO pay taxes. The pay sales tax, property tax (which supports those schools you're complaining about), Social Security taxes they'll never see any of (the Social Security Administration has $513 BILLION dollars attributed to false SS#'s sitting in the bank), income taxes, etc., etc. Yes, immigration is a problem, but we're never going to fix that problem by using illegals as scapegoats for our own mess. I'm a native Oklahoman, but sometimes it gets hard to live in a state filled with such closed minded people.
So, their situation in their home country is so bad that they are willing to do and risk anything to come here and make a new life. That is to say, they're willing to do anything but go through the process of coming here legally. This sounds a LOT like the burglar saying he's willing to do and risk anything to have nicer stuff; he's just not willing to go to school and get the education needed to get a good job so he can afford it. Why should either bother when there are so many bleeding hearts ready, willing, and able to argue that you are right for just stealing their way to a better life?
Kenny, of Methville, I agree totally. I also advocate strict border control, but a comprehensive solution to this mess has to involve reforming the visa programs. In discussions with my friends on this issue, I've often asked, "Isn't it better to have all non-citizens in the country go through background checks & have addresses on record with immigration?" Under the current visa limits, I think we will continue to have illegals from many countries, no matter what we do with our borders & ports (air & sea).
Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Nov 1, 2007 at 9:48 am
If there really is a shortage of labor, I have no problem with easing the restrictions on work permits. The point is, it needs to have oversight instead of a flood of people who's background we know nothing about.
We have absolutely no obligation to take in every single person from every country that wants to come here. I'm tired of all the excuses coming from those who support this invasion for their own political or greedy purposes. If the Oklahoman wants to continue to put out all these bleeding heart stories that are in support of these criminals maybe the writers of these stories need to be the first to face a judge for their support.
Fourth of July Page
Share your July 4th photos with NewsOK and view other stories and videos.
Related to this story
Articles
Immigration law to take effect 10/31/2007 Tulsa — An immigration enforcement law, arguably one of the toughest in the nation, will go into effect on Thursday. An 11th hour temporary injunction...
33
Prev
Something to say about this topic? Submit a Letter to the Editor online
Thank you for joining our conversations on newsok. We encourage your discussions but ask that you stay within the bounds of our terms and conditions. Please help us by reporting comments that violate these guidelines. To review our rules of engagement, go to Commenting and posting policy.
Log in below or sign up (it's free).