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David Stanley Ford

Immigration battle gains strength
Immigration battle gains strength

By Devona Walker    Comments Comment on this article894
Published: November 2, 2007

Some carried bilingual signs or U.S. flags. Others carried small children. More than a thousand, primarily Hispanic, protesters congregated Thursday outside the state Capitol in objection to House Bill 1804.

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More than 1,000 people came to the state Capitol to express their opposition to the new immigration law that went into effect Thursday. By JIM BECKEL, THE OKLAHOMAN

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It went into effect at 12:01 a.m. Thursday.

It is one of the toughest immigration enforcement measures in the nation. It prevents illegal immigrants from obtaining driver's licenses or public services. It requires law enforcement to detain and coordinate the deportation of illegal immigrants arrested for felonies or DUIs.

It also criminalizes harboring, concealing or transporting illegal immigrants.

Jose Sifuentes is an American citizen who has worked for the same company for 20 years.

He attended the rally with his wife — who is in the process of becoming an American citizen — and extended family members and friends.

"Mr. Terrill is making criminals out of all of us,” Sifuentes said of Rep. Randy Terrill, author of HB 1804. "American citizens are married to people without papers, or their parents do not have papers. He has made them criminals because we are not going to turn in our family and help to have them deported.”

About a dozen Hispanic community leaders and Catholic clergy addressed the crowd, also admonishing the bill and those who voted for it.

"Today is a sunny day, but it is the darkest day in Oklahoma history. Today, we will break up more families. Today, children will be harmed. Today, the Oklahoma economy will suffer,” said Franco Cevallos, the publisher of a local Spanish-language publication. "This is a racially motivated bill by an unscrupulous politician who has pushed it for his own self-interest.”

"I think a lot of the horror stories are highly unlikely and unprobable. At this point, I would think they would stop the inflammatory rhetoric,” said Terrill, R-Moore. "This fear and anxiety has been whipped up by the leaders of the Latino and Hispanic community.”

Around the perimeters of the crowd, there was a small but vocal group with some rhetoric of its own.

Three self-proclaimed Minutemen drove around the edge of the parking lot, shouting for the crowd to go home. As the Oklahoma Highway Patrol intervened, the truck sped away. Another man attempted to walk into the crowd, yelling for "all illegals to go back to Mexico,” but troopers quickly removed him. He set up across the street with his sign.

Then, TV crews caught a shouting match between a Hispanic Realtor and a white U.S. armed services veteran.

Among the loud but few counterprotesters was Jack McBrayer, 43. He wasn't yelling. He wore a baseball cap with the word "Mexico” written on it. But the word had been crossed out by a black marker.

"They got their signs and I got mine,” McBrayer said.

"We've got people who come here legally that follow immigration laws, that learn to speak English and that want to become American citizens,” McBrayer said. "But these people come here illegally. They don't respect our laws. They refuse to learn our language. The problem is they are coming here and trying to make this country theirs.”

For the children
Carmen Sanchez, a legal resident, has lived in Oklahoma for 27 years. She thinks if most Americans knew about the poverty and political corruption in Mexico, they would better understand why so many risk coming here. In Mexico, she and her family lived in extreme poverty, but in Oklahoma they found work and prosperity.

"When I think of this law, my heart cries for the children. So many children are being separated from their parents because of this,” Sanchez said. "We just come to make a better life for our families.”

For other citizens of the United States, such as Carol Soto, immigration fears have hit even closer to home.

Two weeks ago, she said, her aunt was deported.

"They went to her house. They told her they would wait until she picked up her kids,” Soto said. "When she came back, they took her away.”

The aunt left behind a husband and four children. The husband, also illegal, recently drove the two youngest children back to Mexico. He will try to sneak back across the border so he can work and pay for his family's return, Soto said.

Meanwhile, the two older children remain here with extended family members.

"It's been very hard on the children. They are so scared,” Soto said.

Here to work
Others who were at the protest are not here legally but came here to work.

"This country is not ours. But since we are here, we are gong to fight for our rights,” said Isobel, an illegal immigrant who came to this country about five years ago. She was at the protest with 10 other immigrants from work.

"When I came across the border, I already knew this might be the case,” Isobel said of the possibility of deportation. "But I came to work, that's the reason I came here. We don't come to hurt anyone. And I will keep working.”

Walk it alone
Among the crowd of so many were about a dozen black people. Some wore NAACP T-shirts. At least one even carried signs.

Also present were a handful of black community leaders, including state Rep. Mike Shelton and Roosevelt Milton, president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People's Oklahoma City chapter.

"This is how change happens. They are not the first group to come to the south side steps of the Capitol to change things,” Shelton said. "I'm a firm believer of Dr. Martin Luther King, and it's like he said, ‘Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere.'

"And it's important that people don't have to walk alone. The black people didn't walk alone in their struggle,” he added.

Milton, too, pointed to the common struggles of Hispanics and blacks. But he also noted that the black community itself is still divided on the subject.

A few days ago, he attended a news conference standing beside Hispanic leaders, protesting HB 1804.

It sparked some controversy in the community, he said.

Some said he should focus on the many Haitian immigrants whose plight has largely been overlooked while others praised him and joined the NAACP, Milton said.

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Carolyn, you may want to re-read my post. Either you didn't get what I wrote or I'm confused on your comment. As an AMERICAN I took it upon myself to view illegals like I see them....scroll back down and re-read the comment. Everything I list is what illegals do here in America. To break it down a little bit: When you are an illegal - you are considered an guest/lightly said and if you are a guest in my home and/or country - you need to act accordingly. I dare you demand that I speak your language in my home and/or country. And they really messed up raisng their flag/that represents their country in our home/ our country. Love the bill and will be very pleased with the SON of the bill. Having english the official language... Now Hopefully our children will not be picked over on jobs that was preferring bilingual
language.. ENGLISH - ENGLISH - ENGLISH..
LEGAL - LEGAL - LEGAL -- WELCOME - WELCOME - WELCOME.
T- , Spencer - Nov 10, 2007 at 1:34 am
Elvia and Carol in Tuttle: The American people tried the civil approach and it did not work, so now it is time to get "DOWN AND DIRTY." Maybe the illegals will understand that approach better. As my opinion of George Bush, I put the blame more on him than anything else for the illegal mess we are in. If George Bush would take more interest in his own country, and keep his nose out of other countries, we would all be better off. Even members of George Bush's own party has said he is delusional. I, for one, along with the majority of people in this country, do not believe one word that George Bush says!!!!
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 4, 2007 at 10:09 am
Thanks Carolyn, that was something that I wasn't aware of. But it doesn't mean that the Mexican people are the "only" ones who bring it here...It's about all the other cuntries as well. And as for Jodie, Janice and all others who blame, point fingers, and are full of hatred and bigotry against Us Mexicans. Just because we have a beautiful tan color skin, it does not mean that we are here illegally and live of the goverment and taxpayers money. People like my self, work and pay taxes, and yes Janice, I have a driver license and isurance, and health insurance. Like I said before 1804 might help and maybe this will become a better Country, maybe not. But here is something from the President of the United States, to refresh your minds: (President Bush addresses the nation:
Some in this country argue that the solution is to deport every illegal immigrant, and that any proposal short of this amounts to amnesty. I disagree," he said. "It is neither wise nor realistic to round up millions of people, many with deep roots in the United States, and send them across the border.
President Bush believes that, there is a rational middle ground between granting an automatic path to citizenship for every illegal immigrant, and a program of mass deportation."
“The U.S does not plan to militarize the southern border. Mexico is a neighbor and friend, Mr. Bush said. The U.S. will continue to work cooperatively to improve security on both sides of the border, confront common problems like drug trafficking and crime, and reduce illegal immigration.
President Bush believes illegal immigrants who want to stay should have to pay a meaningful penalty for breaking the law, pay their taxes, learn English, and work in a job for a number of years. The President also believes that there are differences between an illegal immigrant who crossed the border recently and someone who has worked here for many years, and has a home, a family, and an otherwise clean record. Those who meet the conditions should be able to apply for citizenship but approval will not be automatic, and they will have to wait in line behind those who played by the rules and followed the law. )
Gosh, to me that sounds like a great idea. But of course! Some of you have made this about race. Mexico isn't the only country where illegals come from. There are many others.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 4, 2007 at 9:39 am
So T Spencer basically you would continue to break the laws of the United States of America and now Oklahoma. You would do all these things to stay hidden and illegal. You would do everything except to abide by our laws, go back to your country and start the process to come here legally. You and several million other lawbreakers who say they "have done nothing wrong except come here to get a job" when in fact, every move they make in this country is an illegal act. FREEDOM is secured, protected, revived, assured, and demonstrated by the laws of that FREE country. When they are broken, it is by people who PLAN on not being FREE at some future date.
Carolyn, OKlahoma City - Nov 4, 2007 at 8:00 am
I think illegal immigrants have it relatively easy considering the fact that they've broken the law in GETTING here and have defied the law in STAYING here and have evaded the law in HOMESTEADING here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------If I were unlucky enough to have been born in a poor country that's turned its back on me and my family (through no fault of my own or my parents), and I had an opportunity to cross the border to the USA to prevent myself or my family from starving, yes, I might do it.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But, knowing what I know as an American:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**** I wouldn't live in the new country as if it were mine.
*** I would behave as if I were a guest in someone's home, and the worst kind--an uninvited one. In other words, I would make sure my behavior was impeccable.
*** I wouldn't take liberties that are not mine to take.
*** I would be extremely careful to take care of the property where I live.
*** I wouldn't make demands of the people or the government that are not mine to make.
*** I would make sure that I toed the line in terms of every ordinance and law.
*** I would have a contingency plan for myself and my family if any of us were to get deported, and if that occurred, I would acknowledge that such an occurrrence is our responsibility and no one else's.
*** I would realize and acknowledge that in this new country where I'm working and living, I'm taking advantage of all the things I didn't have in my own country:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*access to free medical care if I need it and can't pay for it,* public education for my children,,*
*welfare for my American-born children, if I should foolishly or accidentally have any and they should need it,, * free public representation in court if I stupidly commit a crime, language translators in court, and every other due-process protection during criminal and civil proceedings, ** consistently clean and safe water, ** vaccinations and control of diseases (including ones I might have brought with me)
**indoor plumbing,
**affordable public transportation
**a sympathetic local government that has acknowledged it will shield me with sanctuary if necessary,
** good roads,
** reliable electricity,
** public parks for our weekend parties and cook-outs,
** police protection where no one is allowed to ask my immigration status,
** garbage pick-up and sanitation services,
** free ESL classes courtesy of local school districts or churches,
** graffiti abatement if my children are so stupid as to deface public property,
** abandoned grocery cart retrieval if I can't afford a car or a baby stroller,
** basic traffic and pedestrian training programs since I don't know all the rules about walking in busy city traffic, or driving without a license, registration or insurance,
I would not be so stupid as to alienate myself any further from my American hosts by calling them names, disrespecting their customs, or calling them racists, bigots and hatemongers. If I want to succumb to the temptation to do so, I will understand that I am not the kind of permanent resident or citizen they want in their country. I will understand their anger and resentment of me.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the things listed above that I'm now enjoying took a lot of money, time and effort and ongoing civic and personal responsibility to build and maintain.-----------------------------------------------------------------In other words, under the circumstances, they have the upper hand, and WE don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------






**


















T- , Spencer - Nov 4, 2007 at 12:35 am
And to be clear...I took offense particularly to Janice's vitriol and negative characterization of the Mexican culture as a whole. You don't have to act like an a@@ to be in favor of putting a stop to illegal immigration and the industry it creates as insidious as the illegal drug industry.
Carol, Tuttle - Nov 3, 2007 at 10:49 pm
I'm confused Jodie. I support the new law. I don't support people taking advantage of the occasion to spew hatred and bigotry. The law is necessary. The hate ain't.
Carol, Tuttle - Nov 3, 2007 at 10:45 pm
I have read several post today on the immigration issue, and have come to the conclusion, the ones that are against H.B. 1804 are in this country illegally or is harboring someone that is. I am referring to people like: Cale, Elvia, Carol and Keith.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 3, 2007 at 9:01 pm
To Elvia...I said the disease of "lawlessness", however, since you brought up the subject,... our incident of leprosy use to average less than 10 cases per year. With the influx of illegals, we had over 1,000 cases in 2005.
I am not against immigration, legal immigration, but I do believe we need to change the 14th amendment to stop the "anchor baby" syndrome. If someone comes here illegally and that is of any race/nationality, through our ports as stowaways or across any of our borders illegally, if they have children here once illegally on our soil, our constitution should NOT automatically give those children citizenship. If I could change it, children who are born in this country of illegal immigrant parents would NEVER get citizenship status. There ought to be a hue and cry for such an amendment instead of the flag amendment or marriage amendment.
If we don't close our borders,...ALL OUR BORDERS and patrol/police our ports much better we WILL be wipin' our weepin' eyes again over another attack like 911. No it won't be from illegal immigrants coming from Canada or Mexico or Central and South America or China it will be from non-Western hemisphere terroists who will easily bribe their way through lawless countries on our borders into our southern/southwestern states and this time the attack could very well be nuclear as in "dirty bombs".
My heart goes out to those people who have waited for years to get into this country. They have dotted every "i" and crossed every "t" and yet we let illegals get benefits and jobs and keep these worthwhile, law-abiding, future Americans sit and twirl in their home country.
For those in this forum who ask why there are not more of us who are FOR the immigration law out protesting for the bill, I assure them, that for this one opinion email in an Oklahoman Newspaper forum, I have sent a dozen emails to others with political clout expressing my gratitude that our democratic system is working, at least on this one particular issue in the State of Oklahoma. The bill is law because lawmakers were the SERVANTS or EMPLOYEES of the MAJORITY of Oklahoma Citizen who hired them with their votes. They are not our RULERS/LEADERS. They have done as they are supposed to do and SERVED us by passing this law that the MAJORITY of people wanted,...to NOT encourage ILLEGAL aliens in to our Country. I know you who are here illegally do NOT understand this, but that is DEMOCRACY. It is not a Fascist State controlled by a minority elite on the Right. It is NOT a Socialistic Union, controlled by a minority on the Left. It is a law because a MAJORITY of Oklahomans voted for those who would indeed do their bidding.
I bet anything a MAJORITY of these same people would vote to get most of the LEGALLY waiting immigrants from all countries of the world into our country if we could get it to be a national vote. The only thing that might keep me from voting for immigrants who have done everything legally to get in to this country and now sit and wait, sometimes for years, is if they were convicted of ILLEGAL acts in their country. Ah, there's that word again ILLEGAL.
And like someone has pointed out, I too work 6 days a week and am barely able to afford car insurance on what I make.
Carolyn, OKlahoma City - Nov 3, 2007 at 6:18 pm
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_researchd66d

Just thought I would share.. what the real cost and projectec cost are... to Oklahoma
C, Noble - Nov 3, 2007 at 4:13 pm
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well email me .. me I understand your views Cale, just like them I want to be heard to... we are becoming the minority in our own country... our laws were meant to protect the citizens of the US.. to come and joine a melting pot.. which means assimilate into a new nation.. not back to third world countries.
C, Noble - Nov 3, 2007 at 4:13 pm
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Bush, just wants more people to add to his army...
C, Noble - Nov 3, 2007 at 4:09 pm
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no, I am not going anywhere either... but why won't they go to their own country... and fight this? Why don't they become legal and join the rest of us hard working citizens... I wish I could work and not pay taxes and get handouts... But I can't .. how can we get on that bandwagon? It didn't make anything difficult my daughter can't even get a decent education because we spend thousands and millions of dollars for people taht DON"T WANT TO BE AMERICAN... but WHAT Those rights.... I don't get it?
C, Noble - Nov 3, 2007 at 4:09 pm
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Call it what you want, they are not going anywhere and this bill just made the issue much more difficult. I can't believe I'm actually saying this but the Bush plan was the best plan for for dealing with illegal immigration. Hey, one decent idea in 7 years is better than none.
Cale, oklahoma city - Nov 3, 2007 at 3:57 pm
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THis is what it will cost us if we keep them... A LOT MORE Then if they left... FAIR’s projected annual fiscal costs to Oklahoma taxpayers
for emergency medical care, education and incarceration resulting if an amnesty is adopted for illegal residents.

Current $207,000,000 billion... does it look like if they were gone it really wouldn't hurt us it would save us a lot.





C, Noble - Nov 3, 2007 at 3:46 pm
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this isn't prohibition cale. That is called slavery.. and if that is how low illegals will make themselves ... so be it... you would think the culture would stand a little better then that... oh wait.. there country is so RICH.. huh? No, businesses will thrive.. they won't be undercut by illegals... and that fancy home you live in is probably built by them... I will give you a hint.. they use every place in that home for a bathroom.. there is probably crap and pee all over it.. because they aren't very sanitary...
C, Noble - Nov 3, 2007 at 3:05 pm
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Illegals are not going anywhere and no one is going to enforce this law. Randy Terrill is the only person that will benefit from this obfuscation of reality. Thousands and thousands of people believe that Randy solved the problem while in reality these people will move further underground and the smarmy citizens will make even more money on the backs of the unfortunate. Now instead of tax dollars and social security dollars that have always gone unclaimed will be non existant because these people will be paid not only under the table but laundered to the extent that it will be almost untraceable. Nice work pin heads.
Cale, oklahoma city - Nov 3, 2007 at 2:59 pm
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When illegals can become true citizens the proper way by LAW... only then will they have rights.... if not go back to your country and fight for these liberties with their own government.. and stop coming here for us to fix the problems. Were not your parents.
C, Noble - Nov 3, 2007 at 2:24 pm
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Ketih, Oklahoma did not cut their throats... you must be married into them... illegals do not have rights in the United states, even if married into the family.. Are you a hillbilly? Our econmics will go up... business that couldn't compete before because of "cheap, scavengers"... This is actually called "CHANGE" guess what it Happens it is life full of changes.. Keith your like the person that sticks his hand in a light socket and gets burns adn sues the electric company aren't you?
Most of our money is going to pay for freebies for all the illegals... while our own can't find jobs, afford health care and can't get it because the system that was meant for citizens of Oklahma are going to illegals... Keith.. I hope you work, because I guess that 30 to 35% of your check goes to the government for taxes... and for illegals to get freebies... if they want to stay here they can do it right... no one wants them to be harmed... or ignroed.. people want them to be hard working tax, and law abiding citizens... OH< WAIT OUR ECONOMY WOULD FAIL IF THEY DID THAT WOULDN't it KEITH? If the became tax payers.. oh who cut who's throat?
C, Noble - Nov 3, 2007 at 2:22 pm
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Since businesses are the ones who benefit and are actively involved in the hiring of illegal people to come to our country to work at low wages, then BUSINESSES need to be the ones who provide the transportation, food, language classes, living quarters, health care, education, social security and every government service that U.S. citizen tax payers are required to pay. Businesses who have hired and continue to hire illegals are the culprits to have created this mess. If they need extra workers, then they need to go to Mexico, provide the visas only for the workers, transportation, food, living quarters, health benefit...etc. Then when the work is complete, the companies will be responsible in returning the workers back to Mexico. If the workers want to become citizens, the businesses can pay for those expenses as well. I am sure this will raise the price of items, but it is going to be a whole lot cheaper than the taxes that the U.S. citizen taxpayer has to shell out. Let's end the businesses abuse of local, state and federal government services.
Karen, Oklahoma City - Nov 3, 2007 at 11:21 am
The economic contributions of just illigals is 19 to 1 , benifit to cost ratio! THat does not mention thier legal counterparts that will lose civil rights and profits, wow, oklahoma you have cut your own throats! hey did you factor in the costs? nope! just like in iraq, dumb dumb dumb and you call yourselves patriotic and christian,i call you bigoted and satanic!
keith, oklahoma city - Nov 3, 2007 at 9:44 am
This law violates the civil rights of Americans, whom have family members who are not citizens, and dishonors family values, breaks up families, over a misdomenor, its cruel and unusual! And is actually counterproductive ,moraly , economically or anyway you measure it.
keith, oklahoma city - Nov 3, 2007 at 9:39 am
Brenda, as I've said before. There aren't many citizens out there protesting the protestors because the citizens are all working their tails off to support their families and the families of the protestors.
T. A., Moore - Nov 3, 2007 at 7:47 am
Correct T-, just think how much better our economy would do when we're not giving illegals freebies. We're a socialist nation but none of its working citizens gets free medical or free childcare. We socialist towards everybody but its own citizens. No wonder we're headed towards a recession. Illegals only compound the problem.
Richard, Oklahoma City - Nov 3, 2007 at 7:29 am
ahh... okay, so I go to work everyday and provide a service but I still pay my childs day care in full with no assitance, I get no food stamps, pay out this world for medical insurance, no welfare money... what do I get? Hmm..I think the wrong people are asking for freebies and handouts?
C, Noble - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:58 pm
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Service guarantees citizenship. Would you like to know more?
Anonymous, The Internet - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:50 pm
why must we get them legal... ??? why should we just let it happen? Why can't they do like the rest of us Earn it and work for it just like all the others? Why are they more special then the others? It is like "the good son vs the bad son"..

Like I said... why aren't they fighting their own country for the rights the have there? Oh, wait they might get killed there?
C, Noble - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:48 pm
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Brenda is also right for the other side. It's time those of us who believe this law to be immoral and economically unsound to do what we can to get these people legal. By almost everyone's admission there is no problem with legal immigrants (Janice excluded) so we need to also get out from behind these screens and put our butts where our mouths are.
Cale, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:42 pm
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The definition of citizenship... would illegals be willing to do the following?
Citizenship includes Civic Virtues and Duties that prescribe how we out to behave as part of a community. The TRUE citize KNOWS THE LAWS and OBEYS them. Citizens do more then their "fair" share to make society work, in other words a true citizen GIVES more then they TAKE.
Most illegals, do not give more then they take, nor abide by the laws... but want this right? You don't pay taxes, I watch my tax dollars pay for your welfare... and that makes me very upset, while you pay no taxes... to give to anyone.

The economy will change, it means real citizens will be able to get the jobs the illegals have taken... It will take a turn for even better, because people will get paid normal wages and will be able to spend more... visa versa.. if you stay or go .. we are America we will survive... how come your not chanting the same for your own Country, you think so little of your country to come take over another??? I am a little lost there. If your culture is so great, why not go back home? Please tell me that? Why is Mexico so far behind??? Why not take this fight to your own Government and Make your Country Just like this one that REAL CITIZENS FOUGHT and DIED FOR... ??

C, Noble - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:24 pm
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I have been reading these comments intermittently during the day and some people have made good points, however, there is one question that I have....if there are (500 or 1000 depending on what news article you read)Hispanic protesters against the Law 1804 then why aren't there tens of thousands of us taking to the streets instead of sitting in front of our computers being armchair opponents of illegal immigration? I am opposed to Mexicans taking control of our country. They have already told us they will do so, not by arms, but by numbers. I think they showed that at the Oklahoma Capitol. Now, are we ready to rally?
K, Edmond - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:22 pm
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I'm ashamed to have someone like Janice claim to be a fellow human.
Cale, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 8:53 pm
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To heck with that...*I* rebuke you....you ain't no baptist, unless you "claim" membership of that charlatan "baptist" church falsely so called that recently got sued for violating those military funerals. I am ashamed to have someone like you claim to be a fellow baptist!
Carol, Tuttle - Nov 2, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Janice, my 67k a year far outshines your earnings for a lifetime. You can buy alot of sheets with that...Martha Stewart even.

However, you never did reconcile how you can be a baptist with a jewish savior. I would think your racism would have prevented you from getting saved. Your "fruit of the spirit" sure shows your "savior" comes from much further south of the boarder...and I ain't talking Mexico.... Start acting like an "older woman" in being sober, chaste..etc. Your pastor would be rebuking you right about now.
Carol, Tuttle - Nov 2, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Speaking in the vernacular of Janice. I am curious about something however, Janice, in an earlier post, you stated that you were a great-grandmother yet you're not old enough for social security. You and yours kind of drop them early huh? How do you keep them all in sheets for the meetings?
Cale, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 8:12 pm
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Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column titled, "Mexican visitor's lament" -- 10/25/07.

She interviewed Mexican journalist Evangelina Hernandez while visiting Denver last week. Hernandez said,

"They (illegal aliens) pay rent, buy groceries, buy clothes...what happens to your country's economy if 20 million people go away?"?????????????????????????

That's a good question – it deserves an answer. Over 80 percent of Americans demand secured borders and illegal migration stopped. But what would happen if all 20 million or more vacated America? The answers may surprise you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In California, if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico, it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupted hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English became the dominate language again.
In Colorado, 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and grand-kids – would move back "home," mostly to Mexico. That would save Coloradans an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 BIL) annually in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.
Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.
Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67 percent drop out/flunk out rate via thousands of illegal alien students speaking 41 different languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked cities in Colorado. Denver's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.
In Florida, 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State back to America, the rule of law and English.
In Chicago, Illinois, 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals, schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free experience.
If 20 million illegal aliens returned "home" --

If 20 million illegal aliens returned "home," the U.S. economy would return to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they wouldn't be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401 billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for local state and city coffers.

No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion in American schools that now must content with over 100 languages that degrade the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would lose more than two million illegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL and free breakfasts and lunches.

We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country. In cities like L.A., 20,000 members of the "18th Street Gang" would vanish from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans! No more foreign rapists and child molesters!

Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded highways and gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by illegal aliens!

Drain on America's economy; taxpayers harmed, employers get rich

Over $80 billion annually wouldn't return to their home countries by cash transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further drains America's economy – which currently suffers an $8.7 trillion debt.



At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us $109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California, Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupted out of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act. Americans wouldn't suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases rampant in our country—brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders.

Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and grid locking our cities. It would also put the "progressives" on the horns of a dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11 percent of our greenhouse gases

Over one million of Mexico’s poorest citizens now live inside and along our border from Brownsville, Texas to San Diego, California in what the New York Times called, “colonias” or new neighborhoods. Trouble is, those living areas resemble Bombay and Calcutta where grinding poverty, filth, diseases, drugs, crimes, no sanitation and worse. They live without sewage, clean water, streets, electricity, roads or any kind of sanitation. The New York Times reported them to be America’s new “Third World” inside our own country. Within 20 years, at their current growth rate, they expect 20 million residents of those colonias. (I’ve seen them personally in Texas and Arizona; it’s sickening beyond anything you can imagine.) By enforcing our laws, we could repatriate them back to Mexico.
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High integrity, ethical invitation

We invite 20 million aliens to go home, fix their own countries and/or make a better life in Mexico. We invite a million people into our country legally more than all other countries combined annually. We cannot and must not allow anarchy at our borders, more anarchy within our borders and growing lawlessness at every level in our nation.

It’s time to stand up for our country, our culture, our civilization and our way of life.




T- , Spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Janice, I hope you saved them squirrel brains. I sure do like em scrambled in my eggs.
Anonymous, The Internet - Nov 2, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Finally got my chores done. I had to slop the hogs, milk old Jersey, so I can have some milk in the morning to make some lick-dob for breakfast. Found a squirrel, killed and skinned it, then I fried it for supper, sure was good. Then I guess I will get the wash tub and washboard out and wash some clothes. I hope I have enough lye soap left to wash clothes. I had better check around the house and see if I can't find a bucket of lard, so I can make some more lye soap.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Janice, you and Allison need to take your personal one on one debate to myspace, or Instant Messenger. This is a forum to make comments on the article concerning the new Oklahoma law on illegal immigrants. ON THAT NOTE.....Janice MAY VERY WELL be unfamiliar with a retirement plan since for the past 12 years the Republican party has flooded the country with illegal workers, shipped jobs overseas, attacked and dismantled unions with retirement plans, and allowed every major corporation in America to simply steal all the money in their workers retirement plans and declare them "no longer available". A COMPANY RETIREMENT PLAN HAS BECOME VIRTUALLY EXTINCT UNDER THE REPUBLICAN GREED MACHINE. It would be nice if the retirees who had saved billions into these plans, and were simply ROBBED by their own employers, to be able to have the luxury of falling back on other jobs, BUT THEY ARE ALL TAKEN BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!

GET OUT ILLEGALS! TAKE YOUR CHILDREN, WIVES AND UNCLES, AUNTS, NIECES AND NEPHEWS AND GO HOME AND FIGHT FOR A BETTER MEXICO!
David, Sulphur - Nov 2, 2007 at 7:33 pm
"you need to be deported to back where you come from. 1855!" This is great; nice grammar Cale. You should proof read before you post. That was then and this is now, we can't change the past, and most of us in this post were born here I'm sure. So your rant isn't very well thought out since most of us were born in America. We can't be deported back to where we already are. Now go have another drink.
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Allison: I do not draw Social Security retirement. Have you never heard of a company retirement plan? I draw retirement from the company I worked for. I am not old enough to draw Social Security. Doesn't the company you work for have a retirement plan, if not, maybe you had better go with a company that does have one. Do not depend on Social Security, that would not be enough to live on.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Let's stay on topic Allison. For example, in the article, "This country is not ours. But since we are here, we are gong to fight for our rights,” said Isobel, an illegal immigrant who came to this country about five years ago. She was at the protest with 10 other immigrants from work.

ISOBEL has only the rights of a Mexican citizen, not the rights of an American citizen, and she does not have the right to demand that we in the US provide her and her family a better life. In all fairness, if I had to put up with the Mexican government, I would be the next Pancho Villa......where are their hero's now? I suggest the Mexicans all pickup something to read on Simon Bolivar, the liberator of South America, because they do have a problem, AND IT IS NOT OUR PROBLEM - WE HAVE OUR OWN.

David, Sulphur - Nov 2, 2007 at 6:48 pm
Carol from Tuttle: Janice said she was "drawing a pretty good retirement check". I've never thought of Social Security as a pretty good retirement check. 100 to 1 isn't correct, and it depends on how long you draw SS benefits. I guess you don't plan on drawing your SS, after the remark you made? .......................... Janice, I enjoyed many of your earlier posts. Please don't let it get so personal.
Allison, Noble - Nov 2, 2007 at 6:40 pm
My last comment was for Kirby....but Dave in Blue Rapids has a powerful point.
David, Sulphur - Nov 2, 2007 at 6:39 pm
Well, that's a stretch, BUT "Last year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released a report titled "Trends in Tuberculosis Incidence - United States" saying the number of tuberculosis cases among foreign-born persons in the US increased in 2006, and approximately half came from five countries, Mexico being the leader with 1,912 reported cases."

and

"Citizens of the United States should be rightfully concerned with the alarming rate at which infected immigrants, who have not gone through any medical screening processes, are coming into this country. According to a Pew Hispanic Report, illegal immigrants make up for almost 30 percent of the foreign-population inside the United States."
David, Sulphur - Nov 2, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Bud,If some of us complaint about illegal aliens then we're called racist.But the facts are that illegal aliens do come here illegally and get jobs with stolen Social Security numbers.They then sent 25 billion dollars a year back to Mexico, at the same time holding out their hand for public assistance. It costs the American tax payer around 50 billion dollars a year to pay for their Free medical care,Rent assistance,Food stamps,Translators for their children in our public schools and Free lunches. American cities along the border provide free emergency medical care for Mexican citizens, and what do the pregnant Mexican women do in return? They come across the border to have their babies ( American Citizens).How about Elvira Arellano and her child,she was deported came back,had the child and return to work with a stolen Social Security number,she also had been in our country for 10 years,but had to have a translator at her news conference! Earlier this year illegal aliens demonstrated in the streets of our cities demanding amnesty by flying the American flag upside down below the Mexican flag and carrying signs saying "this land is ours Gringo" I would ask the supporters of illegal aliens what do you tell the millions of immigrants waiting in other countries that want to come here legally? Just because we share a common border that they can wade across to get here,does not give them the automatic right to American Citizenship Its worth more than that! "
Dave, Blue Rapids - Nov 2, 2007 at 6:32 pm
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Janice, you need to be deported to back where you come from. 1855!
Cale, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 6:32 pm
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Kirby...wow, just wow. *Head asplodes*
Anonymous, The Internet - Nov 2, 2007 at 6:31 pm
And they brought AIDS over the border, its all horrible. Please leave while some americans are still alive.
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 6:27 pm
I don't care who you are or where you came from. If you came here illegally then GET OUT NOW because I plan on reporting every single illegal invader I find, as well as their landlord and their employer.
T. A., Moore - Nov 2, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Carol from Tuttle: Don't worry too much about me being retired. Your day will come, MAYBE. You are not paying one penny toward my retirement. I paid more into the system than you will ever EARN in your lifetime. Now, get out there and feed and water that goat.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Elvia: Your comment: I am better with my fist than with my mouth." Spoken like a true Mexican. Now, does that not prove the point that Mexicans are physically violent and barbaric???
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Elvia: Your comment: I am better with my fist than with my mouth." Spoken like a true Mexican. Now, does that not prove the point that Mexicans are physically violent and barbaric???
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Man wanted in ‘94 Austin murder arrested
Friday, November 2, 2007, 03:44 PM

From the Austin Police Department:

Rio Grande Valley Sector Border Patrol agents have arrested an individual with an outstanding homicide arrest warrant in connection with a 1994 Austin murder.

The arrest occurred Tuesday, Oct. 30, 2007, when agents assigned to the McAllen Border Patrol station interviewed several subjects at the La Joya Police Department for possible immigration violations. Agents questioned a subject who identified himself as a Mexican citizen and determined that he was illegally present in the United States. The subject was taken into Border Patrol custody and transferred to the McAllen Border Patrol station for further processing.

During processing, the subject’s fingerprints were submitted to the Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System. Record checks identified the subject as Jose Luis Vences-Maldonado, a 47-year-old Mexican citizen with an outstanding arrest warrant for homicide out of Travis County. The subject was arrested and is set to be extradited to the Travis County Sheriff Department.

On Nov. 20, 1994, police responded to a residence at 1212 Westheimer on a “shots fired” call where they found the body of Fabian Ponce. It appeared that Ponce suffered and died from gun shot wounds on the right side of the head.

On Nov. 21, 1994, the Austin Police Department issued a warrant for Jose Luis Vences-Maldonado for intentional murder. <<<<think ahead to a day when this will be the rule rather than the exception ,Viva la Raza Blanco !!!
mister, bogata - Nov 2, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Bud, I have no problem with people working on changing the immigration laws. I wish they would do that, instead of focusing on keeping the illegals here. But I have to draw the line at amnesty. When there are no more people in other countries waiting on getting in here LEGALLY, then we can talk about it. But until then everyone who is not currently in the legal line to get in, needs to go to the back of the line and wait like everyone else. They should not be rewarded for breaking our laws.
Teresa, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Envoy declines to criticize U.S. treatment of illegals


By Stephen Dinan and Jerry Seper
The Washington Times

WASHINGTON -- Mexico's ambassador to the United States yesterday said previous Mexican officials made a "dumb mistake" by issuing comic books to aid illegal aliens crossing the border, and said his government cannot criticize U.S. treatment of illegal aliens as long as Mexico has harsh laws on its books.

"It's very hard for Mexico to preach to the north what it does not do to the south," Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan said in a meeting with editors and reporters at The Washington Times, referring to Mexico's felony penalties for, and sometimes cruel treatment of, those caught crossing its southern border.

"Unless we correct the fundamental challenge of the violation of human rights of Latin American or Central American migrants crossing the border into Mexico, it's very hard for me to come up and wag a finger and say you guys should protect the rights of my citizens in this country," he said, adding that changes to the Mexican law are now pending.

J.T.(I), Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 5:19 pm
Janice is retired? So I am paying for her to sit here and spew her hate on these boards at a ratio of 100 to one of what she paid in to the SSA system? Who's the freedloader here Janice? My baptist preacher would kick your butt out of church with your hate. I bet you cause all kinds of trouble for the missionaries to mexico from your church..IF they could get out from under their hoods long enough TO sponsor a missionary to mexico. I'm sure you weren't saved from your sins to become a vitriolic bigot, now were you? I hope you don't find out Jesus was jewish...
Carol, Tuttle - Nov 2, 2007 at 5:16 pm
I fully understand why Mexican run from their own country into ours. The poverty and corruption is unbearable there. The Mexican people run away from their problems to escape into a country that fought against the tyrants and corruption of the English who used to rule US! It is time for the Mexicans to stand up to the Mexican Elite and demand change. Running away to a better land is a cop out.....If you didn't stand up for a better life in Mexico, you're exactly the kind of cowards we do not need to be importing.

Instead of standing with your friends and Neighbors an family in Mexico and trying to end the madness of the Mexican government, you left them to drown in the chaos you ran away from. What kind of ME ME ME people are you anyway?

Don't try to accuse me of not understanding, either. When the Telecom Industry tanked in 2000-2001, I spent 3 years unemployed. Because I had been a middle class American, paying high taxes, my family was refused assistance by the very government that pays for the health care, food, and housing for the poor and the illegals. I tried falling back on my skills as a framing carpenter, but all the construction crews were staffed, managed, and run by Mexicans for the express purpose of hiring and promoting Mexicans and illegal immigrants. There was no where to turn for me because of the flood of Mexicans in Texas. When your family has been in America since it's inception, and your family is threatened with homelessness and starvation due to the swarm of the invading hordes from the South, you tend to get a little perturbed. I promise you I am not the only one with a story like this in our country.

Mexicans are taking jobs by the millions in concrete, construction, carpentry, factory and machinery, ranching, farming, road work, parks service and dozens of other professions that used to employ our native citizens.

And why are they getting those jobs? So that business owners can make higher profits than at any point in history. So that they do not have to support health care, unemployment insurance, pay social security taxes, provide retirement benefits or do any of the other things that have previously characterized this nation as a beacon of hope for all mankind. WELL IT IS TIME FOR CORPORATE CITIZENS TO BECOME REAL AMERICANS and to work WTIH the citizens to make a better life together, not just more PROFITS FOR THEIR OWN FAT POCKETS.

Go home an fight for your own country. We are fighting to get ours back, and YOU Senor and Senora Mexican Illegal Immigrant are an unfortunate casualty in the collateral damage.

Take your children with you. Now that they have seen the reality of the way people CAN live, THEY WILL HELP TO PAVE THE WAY for liberating your people from the corruption, poverty, crime, pollution, and overpopulation that is Mexico.
David, Sulphur - Nov 2, 2007 at 5:03 pm
I am reading the immigration laws of Mexico. I was going to wait and just move there when everyone had left; I hate cold. The Bureau of immigration can call upon any law enforcement officer to assist in their mission. Any Illegal entry is a crime in Mexico subject to impresonment for up to 2 years. Anyone who is not able to prove citizenship shall be arrested. Mmmmm, let's just forget making or enforcing our immigration rules and use theirs. Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-entery without permission can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed. Any Mexican who marries a foreigner with the objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. These from Mexico look pretty good.
Thoughtful, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:51 pm
janice I hope to meet you in person some day...You'll love me!!!
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Well since I do have an 8 to 5 job, it's time to go and have fun now, With you all's "money"....yea I wish..
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Stick to the issue instead of pointimg the finger. Carolyn.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Carolyn, who told you that the disease comes from Mexico.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:46 pm
This is fun until everyone starts attacking each other instead of the issues. (Harv, you take the brunt of it, poor guy.) Name calling isn't debating. Ana Maria, you really should examine your heart and deal with this mask of hatred you hide behind. I don't know what your motives are for coming out at me like you have in this post, but hopefully you'll be able to sort out your anger. I hope it's not really how you feel. Thanks Elvia. BOOMER SOONER!
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Carmen Sanchez in the article says we don't understand the corruption back in Mexico. That's wrong. We do understand and by allowing illegals to break our laws and come here illegally we simply spread the disease of lawlessness from Mexico to here.
Carolyn, OKlahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:43 pm
janice where did you go?
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Have a good weekend Mike.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Thanks, I glad you are leaving. You are a HUMMER.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:40 pm
that's what thought, that we could say whatever we felt like, but seems like Janice don't approve of that.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Wow, all from people who don't even know me. You have NO IDEA who I am or where I come from. It would probably shock you to no end if you did. I actually do have a truck, (Hummer) and a job, (high paying) and a family. I'm outta here and have GOT to find something more constructive to do with my time. You guys enjoy your arguing.
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:38 pm
He is just a useless person.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Now, now ladies, this is the beauty of America we have a right to say anything we choose, we just can't yell fire in a crowded theatre when there is none.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:29 pm
Mike can't afford a Truck, his big head wouldn't fit in it.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:29 pm
Mike, I wish I could Rrrooww!! her...I'm better with my fists than with my mouth...
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:28 pm
reaRrrrrrOOOOOOWWWWW!
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:27 pm
and instead of looking for excuses for your sad ass, why not get a job, so that you can own a truck.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:27 pm
CATFIGHT!
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:27 pm
excuse me, my bad!...If we would of had good English teachers when we were at school, maybe my spelling would of been better...and I didn't ride here on a goat, but if you like, you can take me back on your back...and you are not the only one who has been working here, since a very young age. but since you have no idea who I am or what I do, or have been doing, then you have no right to point fingers and call names. You started this with me, I did nothing wrong, but express what I felt. Now if you like, I told you this before, meet me somewhere and tell me all of this to my face.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Elvia: No, it was not me that told you to go back to Mexico on your burro. My saying is: "Why don't you get on that goat that you rode in on and ride right back out. As far as my working, I have worked all of my life, yes, at 3 years old I was pulling a cotton sack, picking cotton. I have put in my working years and am now retired, drawing a pretty good retirement check due to hard work. As far as me thinking that illegals are from another planet, well if the illegals did not ACT like they were from another planet, maybe I would not think that.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:16 pm
KEEP TALKING BUD. Finally, someone with a workable solution, maybe someone will hear and take note.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Teresa,
To add to what I wrote... if we paid more for the jobs the illegals are doing, that would fix some of the problem. But the reality is, most whites have moved on from lawn mowing and cabbage picking and wouldn't do it even at $15 an hour.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:08 pm
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OH! let me correct myself. Good! because I never told you I was not.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Jeff, see my response to Teresa below. I think those that were brought here as children should get special consideration. What we need to concentrate on is the future, not the mess we have now.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:05 pm
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And I'm not getting graded on this, am I?
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Good, cuz i never told i wasn't. and that is called slang.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Teresa,
First off, I think the current immigration quota systems are at the root of the problem. It's simple market based economics to me. If there were not enough jobs here to support these illegals, they would not be here. With that said, I think we need to increase the quotas and shorten the waiting period. But from a practical standpoint, it's logistically impossible to deport all the illegals currently living in Oklahoma, let alone the entire country. HB1804 tries to remedy this problem by making Oklahoma inhospitable to illegals hoping they will leave on their own. The reality is this will most likely not happen, as it becomes clear to the illegals that there is no practical way to arrest or detain them all and illegal ways to get around some of paperwork problems. Remember, these people already live using fake documents. So, with all this said, I think the only rational thing to do is simultaneously increase visa quotas and shorten waiting times while granting some sort of earned amnesty to a majority of those already here. At least that way we'll know who they are and the system of taxation we have will work as it's supposed to. It may not be "fair" to those who are waiting in line, or those that did it legally, but it is practical. I don't see any other way out of this mess. But if we don't fix immigration at the same time, and increase quotas and shorten wait times to meet our market demand for workers, we'll be at this same place 10 years from now.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:04 pm
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If people would pay as much attention to criminals as you do to this, we would still have crowed jails, full of child molesters, thieves, murderes, etc...
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Elvia: I can tell you are a Mexican from the way you write your post, such as: "YOU SO OLD." That should be: "YOU ARE SO OLD.'
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:01 pm
But like Janice, she believes that illegals are from another planet or something, cuz just the other day she asked me for my driver license and asked if I have insurance.....Well to top it off, she told me to go back to Mexico on my burro...We all are HUMANS.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 4:00 pm
SSDD!! The arguement is the same. "I have rights!" Uh, No you don't! Illegal is ILLEGAL. I don't care where you come from. The system is broken. Maybe this begin the job of fixing it. I am not racist,(husband is black I am white, make something of that). Fact is illegals are a drain. They have to have special classrooms because they refuse to learn English. Why should they be in a room of 15-20 and my daughter is in a room of 30 or more? ASSIMILATE and get your papers straight!! This law will not even be an issue UNLESS you are caught breaking another law. Welfare and government benefis should be CUT OFF after 12 months. It is a HAND UP - NOT A HAND OUT!!
K, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:59 pm
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And how would you know? Actually if you'd have read my previous posts over the past few days, I am a card carrying Native American. Cherokee tribe to be exact.
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Where is Fernando! What did you all do send ICE after him?
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Hey Mike, mine are too!
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:57 pm
At least someone here knows what I'm talking about. Thanks :)!!
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Elvira, Truth be told, my tax dollars are squandered on quite a few things I don't agree with.
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Your about a Big D---A-- Mike. It's people like you that make American look bad. Maybe they should kick you back where you came from, cause you sure are not a native American. Are you. Mr. illegal.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:56 pm
NOT!!
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:55 pm
then I must be asking the wrong persons...duhh! You think that it's only your tax dollars? what about ours? Where are the tax dollars that they pay and never get back....you want a round point amount?
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:55 pm
NOT!!
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Okay-all of you win. I have made my personal transformation to become just like my worldly fellow citizens of the dominate culture. From now on it is all about me and what I can get. If I can deprive someone of something along the way, I will. I will learn how to work every system to take advantage of it. What my gain will be someone else's loss. This is exactly what the world needs and YOU ALL WANT! Now that it is all about ME, I am just one more selfish, stingy, uncaring, pathetic, miserable excuse for a human being like everyone else. ME, ME, ME.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:54 pm
That's right Elvia. People have what they have when they work hard.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Yeah, they work hard to break the law. That sure is something to be proud of.
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Janice, I guess you don't work hard enough. But look at the hispanics. they work hard and drive good cars and truck. Aint that something.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Janice, don't worry about it...you know, not owing a truck and all... you'll get you turn whenever you start working and earning your own money...you're here all day, might as well and get a job here...oh! no, you can't, you're to old....what do you people think? first they take your jobs, then your money, cuz oh yeah you are the only ones who work....dumb ass people...GET a LIFE!!! We are equal, and yes some illegal and yes I understand they should come here legally so that they won't break the law...gosh! God knows we have lawbreakers as it is, we don't need anymore...Yes I agree, try to get legalized and then come here....but as far as them living of the goverment and taking your jobs, that "you don't want". Please!!!
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Maybe if some of the illegals leave our ablebodied welfare people can find a job. What happend to the law that was put in place several years ago that said you could only draw welfare for a 5 year maximum? I for one am not an not feeling kinkly toward illegals today. Last evening I was rear ended by a car driven by a young lady. (not Mexican) No insurance, no drivers license. She spoke English when she was cussing me out for stopping too quick, when the police got there she spoke no English. So, friends don't worry that the police will carry off the illegals. She was let go and I have $3700 dollars worth of damage to my car. Her so called brother said she was upset about the new law. Seems he walked to make a phone call and never came back. The young lady didn't say a thing when ask about this young man. Just pretended she didn't know what was said. Anyone can get a international drivers license if they have a legal license in almost any country.
Thoughtful, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Elvia: The answer to your question about illegals on welfare, the illegal females have their babies in this country, then they qualify for welfare benefits. The illegals know how to work the system better than any American ever could.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Bud, It's not right. I agree with you. It's not right for those kids tht were drug here by their parents. But you have to draw the line somewhere. At what point do you think it should stop?
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:45 pm
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By reading all these comments, I agree that everyone has a point to prove or is attempting to prove a point. But people like Rufus and Janice, you show your ignorance by your unnecessary remarks, you are the type of people that make this bill be racists. You are not any better than "illegal immigrants". Being Mexican doesn't mean you are illegal, that shows your stupidity. Solving illegal immigration issues does not begin at the state level, it should begin at the federal level. Yes the influx of illegal immigration needs to stop, but trying to get rid of the millions that are already here..... yeah that doesn't work! To what extent will it be enforced??Illegal immigrants do pay taxes and their children that are U. S citizens have every right to an education and other services just like all others. Why is it that everything is pinpointed at them, "they use up welfare, get free services, get paid under the table, have alot of kids, they are all into gangs"... and so on, thats just stupid. Open your eyes and look around we see that in every race and color you ignorant racist people. This bill will not have a postive, but a negative effect, and you will see that sooner that later.
myra, OKC - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:45 pm
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Good thing my represenatives opinion does.
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Bud, you still didn't answer my question. Why should those here illegally get amnesty and become citizens ahead of those waiting in line to do it the legal way?
Teresa, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:44 pm
You're only trying to stir the pot, it's pathetic.
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Jeff, You said it wasn't the slaves fault since they were forced here. I say the same about the illegals that were brought here as children and have spent most of their life in this country. It wasn't their fault they were brought here illegally, but now they are the ones who will pay. Just doesn't seem right to me.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:42 pm
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Mike, I really don't care what you think. Your opinion doesn't count.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Elvia, no one is arguing that many different kinds of folks are on government assistance. The difference is, they are here legally, but now it won't matter, because illegals can't get it....
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Harvey: You are so very right, I am very particular with whom I choose as friends and I will continue to do so. Harvey, why don't you be the spokesperson for the illegals, oh, I meant to say, I think now it is, "unauthorized migrants." Sorry, Harvey, I have to walk, I can't afford a pickup truck. I had to pay too much into the system to help support moochers.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Well shouldn't the president stop helping other countries and concentrate on his? Stop sending all of "your" money to other countries and maybe this one wouldn't have such an issue. Mexicans aren't the only ones on DHS...how can they, "they're illegal".
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:37 pm
I get sick of these same old tired, hate-filled posts from both sides of the debate. It's done, it passed, now get over it. And ana maria, it's easy to spew your racial b.s. on a post; try doing it to someone's face. I'm personally disgusted by your comment to Rufus about Church's Chicken.
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:36 pm
And the slaves are stil breaking the rules by killing and robbing. Poor little slaves.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:32 pm
Harvey, we don't care about that. If you want them, Please take them!!!
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:32 pm
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Harvey, you should seek professional help.....
David, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Janice, you so old that you can't even drive....why not make a law about that.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Boy Howdy-that must eat you supporters of HB 1804 up to know that it don't mean squat on certain property in Oklahoma.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:29 pm
Hey illegal girl-read my previous posts and I am sure someone will figure out who I am and point you my direction. I do know Pastor Teno and have been to that church before.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Who was that woman that said she was illegal? Being single I could marry her, anyone know her name? What am I gonna do about it? Marry her and move her on to tribal trust property where the HB 1804 don't mean squat! I don't know her age, but that shouldn't matter, a 21 yr old Mexican American citizen flirted with me at Family Dollar and was surprised I was older than her father. She don't look like one of the Univision hoochie mamas, so I guess her suitability looks pretty good. I have already been married to mean, ornry Cheyenne woman. I think the illegal would be a lot less hassle even with HB 1804!
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:26 pm
I guess rufus is the perfect citizen. Ha!! Ha!!!
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:25 pm
For one thing, you are comparing one generation to many many generations ago. One generation from a kid to their parents is a far cry from 100+ years ago. But still it would make more sense to pay reparations for slavery than to give Amnesty to illegals. The slaves were forced here. They did not willingly break into our country and demand work, and housing, and healtcare. etc etc.
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:24 pm
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Nother will change my mind on the illegal issue. I have felt this way for as long as I can remember. I have already informed ALL of my family about the new law. If my Baptist minister did not abide by the law, then he should not be a minister and he should go to jail.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Oh come Ken, you are not Jewish, if you are what is the Anti-defamation Leagues position on this?
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Jeff, Well, you can certainly feel that way. But that sure flies in the face of the arguments I see here that the actions of our ancestors are not our fault. It's' the grown children that have lived here all their life that will pay. Using your logic, you need to start saving for reparations payments for slavery.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:16 pm
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Elvia: Oh gosh, I needed to go to the store today, but I am so scared to get on the highway because of you Elvia. Please, someone go to the store for me. I am such a victim.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Elvia, we don't live in a perfect world. Nothing is going to be perfect. No law either way is gonna make everyone happy. You have to draw the line somewhere. We can't help everyone. Look at all the money we send out to other countries to help them. The more money we send out the more they hate us. I live in the real world. NO AMNESTY !!
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:16 pm
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Elvia, we don't live in a perfect world. Nothing is going to be perfect. No law either way is gonna make everyone happy. You have to draw the line somewhere. We can't help everyone. Look at all the money we send out to other countries to help them. The more money we send out the more they hate us. I live in the real world. NO AMNESTY !!
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:15 pm
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What's flawed about it? For starters, from a practical standpoint it actually only changed two things. 1) That illegals can't get certain types of assistance (they can still get WIC, a free education for their kids, headstart, etc.) and 2)it made felons out of people offering humanitarian aid to someone that is illegal. The rest of the law is mostly fluff and political pandering. The police aren't going to start rounding illegals up and deporting them and ICE is not going to deport anymore of them from Oklahoma than they did before. What I have the most trouble with is making it a felony to give humanitarian aid to someone who has committed a misdemeanor. To me, that flies in the face of justice and the American sense of fairness, is cruel and unusual punishment, and morally wrong. But I think the good people of this state will begin losing their zeal for this law the first time a member of the clergy, especially if their Baptist, is sentenced to a year in jail for letting an illegal spend the night in the church. Assuming such a case ever makes it to court.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:13 pm
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Jeff, with all that you are saying, makes me think that you are person who will never need aid or any kind of help from anyone. Good...keep it that way.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Bud, that's on their parents for making that mistake. Why should we have to pay for the mistakes of everyone else? So to answer your question, No It doesn't matter !
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:07 pm
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Thanks.
violet, yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:07 pm
I bet church's chicken stinks now.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Violet,
The police do not have the authority to arrest someone simply because they say they are illegal. That's why she wasn't arrested.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:06 pm
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So how many of you are on here just because It's Friday afternoon and you are ready to go home?? That describes me for the most part..
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:06 pm
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What's flawed about it?
Ken, Anytown - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:04 pm
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Jeff, I doubt as a child they had much to say about where their parents brought them. But I guess that doesn't matter, right?
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:04 pm
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Oh, and Teresa. You can be against illegal immigration while still being against this law. It's a dumb and flawed law, and time will prove me right. But to write that doesn't mean I'm pro-illegal immigration, even though a lot of you probably think I am.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 3:03 pm
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Teresa, I'm only arguing Dave's logic. I'm not saying who should get to stay here or not. But the truth is, if this was just a legal vs. illegal question, the easiest way to answer it is to make them all legal. But I don't think that's really the problem. If it was, you'd all be in support of Bush's plan and expanded guest worker programs. Instead, many of you carry on about them not adopting the American culture (whatever that is), or not learning our language, or taking benefits away from us, or taking those good lawn mowing and maid jobs away from honest Americans.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:59 pm
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Did you all see that woman at the protest, to the man in the truck? She said "Yea, I'm Here. I'm illegal, what you gonna do about it?" Why didnt they arrest her? There were police there.
violet, yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:58 pm
Bud, Not our problem what they have to do when they get shipped back. They should have thought of that before trespassing here in the first place. A lot worse would happen to us if we were in their country illegally. And we wouldn't have some action group to take up our cause either.
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:55 pm
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That's fine with me Bud, being a lawbreaker most of their lives should put them at the front of the line for deportation.
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Amnesty is wrong, in any shape or form, NO AMNESTY!!!!! Deportation is the only answer!!
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Is it just me or does the pro-illegal alien side seem to be sinking lower and lower? Name-calling, accusations and barely readable tirades.
Teresa, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Are you talking about the good ole boys in the pickup, Rufus? It seemed the ones that we'd deport (or rather ICE would deport) could speak English just fine. Maybe it's because they'd lived here most of their lives. If they're deported to Mexico, assuming they were born in Mexico, they'd probably need to study Spanish- the language you probably refer to as Mexican...
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:52 pm
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Beware of who? and Old gramma janice I see that you are back....now how about that ride???
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Bud, you asked "If you give Amnesty to all these illegals, and make them legal, won't they be paying into the tax system just like you and me?" You tell me, why should the illegals here get to become citizens ahead of those waiting to come here legally? The ones that did the WRONG thing get rewarded and the ones that do the RIGHT thing get shafted?
Teresa, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Stephen, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Stephen, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Stephen, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Stephen, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Stephen, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:49 pm
I think it's about time we had a law that stands up for LEGAL rights. I believe that if you want to come to our country, you should come legally. If I was told not to enter another country because it was illegal, I wouldnt go. And if I did go and get caught, I would concede that, since I was there ILLEGALLY, I should be sent home and/or not given the same rights as a National.

As far as workers goes........

I think there are plenty of rehabilitated criminals and former drug addicts that would gladly take all these jobs that the hispanic community is complaining about.

Let we forget that this is NOT AN ANTI-HISPANIC law. This is an ANTI-ILLEGAL law. I wouldnt care if you were hispanic, Irish, Italian, African, or Canadian. If you arent here legally, BEWARE...

Stephen, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:48 pm
Maybe they can teach english to the locals when we deport them back home Bud..
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:44 pm
One thing I noticed watching the news was that those illegals that many of you say don't want to learn our language seemed to have little trouble speaking English to the good ole boys in the pickup, or at the rally at Sacred Heart.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:41 pm
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Ken, Anytown - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:34 pm
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I'm Jewish. Therefore since Harvey doesn't agree with me, he's Anti-Semitic.
Ken, Anytown - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:34 pm
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"The last refuge of a scoundrel is to decry racism"
Ken, Anytown - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:33 pm
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I know some Americans of Mexican descent who have been here in Oklahoma since state hood. They do not like this illegal situation any more than us gringos.
My wife is a school teacher in the Okla Metro system and over half her class cannot speak adequate english and are disruptive to the other students.
I know catholics who are deciding to leave the church because the catholic preist hood has decided to support law breakers.

Do I dispute that our southern neighbors are good hard working and family oriented. No.
What I dont understand is the mentality that it is better to flee their country rather than make it better.
I read a quote in the paper just yesterday where an Illegal said "Its not our country but we must defend our rights" Other than basic human rights what else is there not granted by the state.
You mock our country and our culture, you show disdain for our laws, you fly our flag in disrespect and yours properly, than you condem us as being "rascist" because we as americans have the terminity to say "enough is enough"
We have a president who blithfully says you are onlyd doing the jobs americans wont do and trys to convice us that no americans are now willing to mow the lawns, pick the fruit and do the construction.

Show me through word and deed that you want to be AMERICAN and proud of it.
Dont be construed as puppets of the political elite and the business and religious special intrest.

Do respect our ways and dont condem us for transgressions of our fore fathers because frankly, your forefathers truly wernt much better if that....

Dont tell me that my Abraham Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt was bad and then in the same breath ty to convince me that your Pancho Villa was so good.

To have a respect for your roots and your old countyr is ok, but show that same respect for our country if you truly want it to be your new country.

Reject out of hand the concepts put forth by "La Raza and Atzalan. Do not squall in self pity that the great south west was stolen from you in the war between our countries................Admit there is blame to go around for all and remember that you, as I are of European descent and culture with a strong kinship of shared culture based on mutual respect and then....only then...would we middle Americans be willing to listen to your plantive cry for help.

Have no doubt that Americans are a generous to a fault people.....we always have been.....but to spit in our face.....that is an insult, as it would be to you. Ask for our help dont demand it and perhaps the outcome would be more equitable.

Your in a bad situation and trying to tell me your getting screwed by the system just doesnt touch my heart at this point.

I hope you read this and take the suggestions to heart.

Mark, Del City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:32 pm
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Janice-then shut your mouth! Maybe together we can pick on fat people with your svelte body and my 32 inch waist. Oh wouldn't we be so priviledged! Us 37% fit people in the country can make second class citizens out of the other 63%. We could pass laws that we get the best seats at public events and that anyone requiring 2 seats on an airplane be required to ride in the cargo area. Didn't someone ask you if you drove a red truck, on your way to family reunion, drinking coors, hoping for a hot date? No, I'm not picking on fat people. I just want to bring into rememberance that this great-grandma Janice don't tolerate or associate with anyone she considers inferior.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Harvey, Rufus is spot-on in his commentary. Your pitiful posted offerings, on the other hand, could use some work...
Jason, Edmond - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Every day I venture back over here as the day starts to wind down and never cease to be amused by the pro-illegal alien apologists and their non-stop hysterics. The feeble arguments never change: "Racist! Think of the children! Hard Workers! Bigots! My wife is a good person even though she's, ah, ummm, never mind! My daddy's baby is a great father, so what if he can't speak a lick of English and hasn't payed taxes since he got here! Racist! Economy crashing! Ignorant Okies! Backwards! Racist!" and blah, blah, blah, blah.... By the way, yesterday on the Channel 9 news at Six we saw the REAL face of those "hard-working" illegal immigrants: on camera one of them threatened an HB1804 supporter, saying twice "take you out." That's the genuine face the pro-illegal alien apologists hope you will ignore, until OKC is just like Los Angeles with the MS-13 gang members running the place.
Jason, Edmond - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Jeff, I've already been to the local Church's chicken and noticed the hispanics working there are gone and black kids are working there now. The food and service was great!!!
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Milton doesn't speak for me and most of the black community anymore that jesse jackson or al sharpton does. We think for ourselves.
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Wow.. Someone needs to take a pill. We would be fine without Illegals, Just give us the chance and we'll see what happens. Our kids can actually have jobs mowing lawns and at the fast food places like they used to. And we will actually get some tax revenue off of them instead of sending it to another country..
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:23 pm
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Can I get a witness? Rufus, it must gladden that cement block you call a heart to see other people persecuted in the year 2007. I can't believe you of all people would be against the president of the NAACP speaking against discrimination. Shame, Shame, Shame.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Harvey: I think you know that you people have lost. All of your mouthing is not going to change it. If that short, fat man that is doing all this mouthing that he is doing at your meetings in Tulsa keeps it up, the Tulsa Police Department will haul his short,fat $$$ off to jail where he should be. You people are going to keep on until you are going to cause a riot.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Jaime, I didn't know I could go into Mexico now without "watching my back". isn't kidnapping and theft running rampant down there? Not that I ever had a desire to go there..
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Your racism is showing people! Now we know! There is the opportunity to help what amounts to 1/4 of the population of the state of Oklahoma. See how blessed we are? Then we have the nerve to begrudge our fellow man. Ken Liberal Crap? Call it human compassion, I hope the heck an F-5 don't take out anytown and you personally require assistance. Oh I forgot, the author of HB 1804 is from Moore and Moore took a direct hit from the May 3rd tornado. Apparently he was spared. I can't believe none of you people have never been brought to your knees by anything. If you were, you sure as heck didn't learn anything. Where is compassion and love thy neighbor as thyself. Before you ask me the same questions, my friendships tend to be and have been long term and no none of us are perfect. It just goes to show that I have learned to be human. Get a grip Ken, your hardened heart needs to be softened and that goes for the rest of you hate filled, racist people.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Dave, Blue Rapids, If you give Amnesty to all these illegals, and make them legal, won't they be paying into the tax system just like you and me? From your arguments it would seem it's not a question of whether or not they are illegal, it's just a question of how many are coming here, and there's too many. After all, you give them Amnesty and suddenly they are all legal. Also, one of the ex-leaders of FAIR was in favor of sterilization of women in third world countries to limit their populations. Are you for that also? You know, the whole, "they breed like rats" issue. Of course, our not too distant ancestors bred like rats also. My mother had 7 brothers and sisters. My grandmother had 8 siblings. But I digress. For those of you that don't know, FAIR authored the language in HB1804.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:20 pm
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its ok deport everybody that you want you.Because in the end its the white people and the black people and all the other people that live in this country that are going to be cleaning restrooms, picking fruits,and cutting lawns. Lets see this time next year how all the white people are complainig because "Pedro" isn't here to keep their lawns mowed. And all the black people complaing because the white people cant find any "Mexicans" to pick on so the pick on the blacks.Oh, you think its bad now, wait until you realize that you cant any longer go into Mexico without having to constantly watch your back, because every "mexican" is going to try to rob you. Wait until your food supply depletes and the food prices triple, because now farm workers can no longer find cheap labor. Just wait when our national debt rises because now we have to give welfare to all the children left behind by the deportation of immigrants. Wait until social security ceases to exist, because 20% of incoming taxes are no longer coming in. Wait until the government raises taxes because of jail overcrowding. O yeah, I cant wait.
jaime, oklahoma CITY - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:19 pm
Harvey, the Mexican government sent 35 trucks, that was it, and that was to help out the illegal mexican nationals affect by Katrina, not US citizens.
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Oh come on now, lets help those poor suffering law bidding good Mexicans that chose to stay in their homeland and not come here and violate our precious laws or spend our precious tax dollars. They should be rewarded for doing the right thing and not burdening us, or it okay, or is that US or OK. The reality is that America will respond HA! HA! maybe the almighty seen to it that there would be no savings from an unjust law. He said his ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts, his are far higher. Rufus, I know you know how to type and get on the net, but your lack of recall is questionable. The Mexican Army sent a whole company over to help the Katrina victims. This made national news beings it was the first time any foreign military came on American soil. These were water purification, contruction, and heavy equipment operators. They even brought their own equipment.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Mary, Coweta: I get tired of people saying the Bible teaches us to obey the law when talking about HB1804. Jesus clearly, and on multiple occassions, openly defied both Roman and Jewish law when the laws were unjust. That's the position of the clergy who oppose this law- the law is unjust. It's not a law in the spirit of "what would Jesus do?" that makes a felon out of a person for giving a person in need a place to rest their head. Illegals are only guilty of a misdemeanor. They are not hardened criminals. The churches are not aiding or abetting criminals when they provide humanitarian aid to illegals. They are only living their lives as Jesus' teachings tell them. When the woman who committed adultery was brought before Jesus for stoning, in accordance with the law of Moses, Jesus said, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone..." If you're trying to use the Bible to justify this law you're way off base.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:13 pm
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Good post Jeffrey, Harvey, there are an estimated 80,000 illegals in Oklahoma, they can go to mexico to help out their fellow mexicans affect by the flood. Oh no, that's right, they are at the state capitol crying about our laws.
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Things have changed again. What we are suppose to call the illegals now are, "UNAUTHORIZED MIGRANTS." Good Heavens, if I was not living this, there would be no way that I would believe what is happening.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Rufus, You beat me to the same response on those last two. Good Job. I couldn't have done it better myself!!!
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:09 pm
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Harvey - I know of a labor force we could send to help out.
Jeffrey, Edmond - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Before The Hart-Celler Act of 1965 (Thank you Senator Kennedy)and the 1986 Amnesty Act ( Thank you Senator Kennedy) most Americans wanted population control in the US.Now we allow in around 2,000,000 legal immigrants a year plus their extended families,(Mother,Father,Sister ,Brother and their children.)That adds millions more.Then you have the 12-20 million illegal Aliens that Congress wants to give Amnesty to.If that's granted,then you have their extended families,which will add millions more.Then you have the 500,000 that still cross our southern border illegally each year.The US current population is 301,000,000,not to long ago we exported our surplus food,now we import half, 36 states have a water shortage,Some studies show the US population at 450,000,000 by the year 2050.Has anyone ask their Congressman and Senators what quality of life our Children and Grand Children will have? Social Security,in 1996 the Social Security Administration signed an agreement with Mexico that will give Social Security payments to the 12-20 million illegal aliens once they are granted amnesty, total cost over 50 billion dollars a year.This type information is at both the FAIR and the Heritage Foundation Web sites.Add the billions each year the American tax payer pays for illegal aliens free medical care,food stamps,rent assistance,translators at schools and we have a ticking time bomb.Amnesty for 12-20 million illegal aliens and endless immigration is not the answer.I encourage everyone to write their Congressman and Senators and ask them what the total cost to the American tax payer will be if they grant amnesty to those 12-20 million illegal aliens,after all you and I and our children will foot the bill for their decision! "
Dave, Blue Rapids - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:07 pm
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Harvey, let's send the same amount of Aid that Mexico sent the victims of Hurricane Katrina. How about that??
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Farms are mechanized lynn, one guy on a huge tractor plows and plants thousands of acres by himself. No one had picked cotton in decades, been over 100 years since anyone harvested grain by hand. What farms in Tulsa and OKC are illegals working on anyway? Where do you get your useless information?
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:04 pm
To Harvey, Oklahoma City - what a crock. Typical Liberal claptrap - if you're against condoning the breaking of immigration laws you must be a racist.
Ken, Anytown - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:03 pm
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Can I get a witness?
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:02 pm
There is flooding in Tobasco Mexico. Over 900,000 human beings are displaced. Maybe if we pursued a humanitarian effort in our country which isn't unheard of in times of disasters we could divide this number equally by 50 the number of US states and accept 18,000 legal refugees. Apparently, beings 25,000 illegals have already departed the state, we could accept 18,000 legal refugees. They would have the status of refugee and be legal. There are specified rules governing refugees worldwide and the United Nations High Commission on Refugees monitors these situations. Okay all of you that are not racist, what do you think about that proposal?
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:01 pm
There is flooding in Tobasco Mexico. Over 900,000 human beings are displaced. Maybe if we pursued a humanitarian effort in our country which isn't unheard of in times of disasters we could divide this number equally by 50 the number of US states and accept 18,000 legal refugees. Apparently, beings 25,000 illegals have already departed the state, we could accept 18,000 legal refugees. They would have the status of refugee and be legal. There are specified rules governing refugees worldwide and the United Nations High Commission on Refugees monitors these situations. Okay all of you that are not racist, what do you think about that proposal?
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Coming in illegally is the point. When we make second class citizens, ie illigal immigrants, we tear down the fabric that is America. Also Spanish speaking people who are here legally are also targetted. What a shame for those good people.
Judith, Newalla - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Coming in illegally is the point. When we make second class citizens, ie illigal immigrants, we tear down the fabric that is America. Also Spanish speaking people who are here legally are also targetted. What a shame for those good people.
Judith, Newalla - Nov 2, 2007 at 2:00 pm
to Lynn, Oklahoma City

Despite the constant spin and propaganda from the Left about ILLEGAL immigration, the issue is that of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION not legal immigration.

What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand?
Ken, Anytown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:58 pm
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Just showing how much history just repeats itself, Jeff. Actually, history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme ("borrowed" from Mark Twain)
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:57 pm
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We have always benefited from the influx of hardworking newcomers to this country. We do ourselves harm when we think we need to hoard things for ourselves.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:55 pm
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But Deborah, if you make it so complicated that it is not worth bothering with, what do you gain from that? In fact, you make it more likely that people will come in undocumented.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:52 pm
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We don't need them. The reason they are here is because of greed on the part of American business owners to get "cheap labor". The owners of those businesses don't give a rats a$$ about the rest of us tax paying folks. By the way you didn't really make a point with all that plagiarism of a history lesson you were trying to give..
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:52 pm
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Maybe the farming should be returned to regular people instead of the big corporations who bankrupted good law abiding farming families in the first place.
Deborah - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Judith, I'm not worried about farm prices going up. We could always import more food. I'm worried about there being a farm economy at all in Oklahoma if this law is enforced as you dream it will be.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:50 pm
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No one said it wasn't complicated. As a matter of fact it should be complicated enough to keep the bad people of the world out of our country. And I'm not necessarily talking about money either. I certainly think that they should do complete background checks on everyone wanting to enter this country. They risk so much because it is so easy Lynn.
Deborah - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Between 1820 and 1880, political and economic conditions brought over 2.8 million Irish immigrants to the United States. German Catholic immigrants also came during the 1840s. American society did not accept the Irish Catholics and Germans, and movements to limit immigration began to form. After the Civil War, federal law began to reflect the growing desire to restrict immigration of certain groups. In 1875, Congress passed the first restrictive statute for immigration, barring convicts and prostitutes from admission. The 1875 Act also attempted to deal with the problem of Chinese labor in the West. Imported Chinese labor had been used since 1850, and the tension between the Chinese workers and the settlers of European descent ran high. Congress adopted a law outlawing so-called "coolie- labor" contracts and immigration for lewd and immoral purposes. In 1882, Congress took even stronger action in the Chinese Exclusion Act, the nation's first racist, restrictive immigration law. The Act suspended all immigration of Chinese laborers for ten years and forbade any court to admit Chinese people for citizenship. The Chinese Exclusion Act was finally repealed in 1943. Immigration was now seen as a threat to the United States economy, and Congress began expanding the list of "undesirable classes" hoping to upgrade the quality of immigrants and to limit overall entry.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:46 pm
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The people who are talking about our prices going up because of a loss of cheap labor, shame on you. This is the "new" slave system. We don't make people who want to work able to get the benefits of our society, but we want them to work our fields. These workers are under duress all the time and subject to bully's.
Judith, Newalla - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Well, Jeff, we really didn't do fine. The history of immigration goes roughly like this. A new wave of immigrants come to this country, and then they try to keep other immigrants out. They fail and a new wave comes in. Why? Because we need them.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:45 pm
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Then, Deborah, you koow that the whole process if very complicated. My wonder is not that there are so many illegal immigrants in this country. My wonder is that there are any legal immigrants at all. To just say that they are illegal and that settles it tragically begs the question. Why do these workers feel they have to risk so much to come to a strange country and find work. I would not do it, but then I don't have to.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:43 pm
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I have compassion for the people who are looking for work and want to better their families. BUT we have to stop the illigal immagration. If our Federal government can't get together then we will have to begin state by state making it too difficult to live here. When enough states make the hard decisions, THEN the government will make a ruling and have a consensus. Congradulations Oklahoma for your nerve!
Judith, Newalla - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Lynn, I'm not worried about the rest of the farming, or the produce, or the lawn mowing, or the fast food jobs. This country did fine before all the illegals were here. And we would do fine without them again!! The fact is they cost us more than they save us by far..
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:42 pm
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Oh and by the way, just because he was white and spoke english didn't mean he was extended any special favors.
Deborah - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:38 pm
I know first hand how hard it is to obtain legal status for someone. I worked myself to pay fees and lawyers to obtain legal status for my english husband. So in all fairness, I think I have a clue.
Deborah - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:38 pm
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Sandra said "Anyone that is for HB 1804; Do you really think its that easy to cross one border;I know that in 2001 there was a bill for immigration " So FIX THAT! Spend your time and energy toward getting this 'problem' with immigration fixed so that the ones trying to come here legally can do so. Ignoring people here illegally is NOT the answer. We have no control over who comes over. Criminals cross over right next to the nice man who just wants to work. We need to get it under control. How can you not see that?
Teresa, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:34 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:34 pm
It is part of the english language, deborah.
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Why Desiderius...what language!
Deborah - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Who cares Lynn? Most farms are large corporations. it's hard to have sympathy for some rich fat cat who doesn't want to pay a work force a decent wage.
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:32 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:32 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:31 pm
So don't look for California, Oregon or Washington to follow suit with Oklahoma. We are going to stick out like a sore thumb.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:30 pm
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Harvesting is only one part the problem. It's working the farms year round. Try to get the youth of America to do that! Of course, you would never get the produce from the fields to the consumers if you didn't have the help of immigrant labor, most of it "illegal".
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:29 pm
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I'm tired of hearing the illegals claiming they have been wronged or harmed by our U.S.laws. #1 they are ILLEGALLY here, how do they possibly think that they have our U.S. civil rights? I'm tired of being put in the position of guilt because I'm in favor of up-holding our U.S. and Oklahoma State laws. And I'm ashamed of the churches who are joinning the protests. We are taught in the Bible to obey to the laws. Also, if the local media would ignore the hispanic protests maybe they'd give up and go home. Who else is giving them (the illegals) a voice?
Mary, Coweta - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:29 pm
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Oh but Jeff, that was when most american kids could actually work and make money to contribute to their college education. Now days they can't afford to go to college without hocking their future with student loans while we spend billions and more on social programs that our working class people (even those making minimum wage) can't get. But....we are paying for their children's education.
Deborah - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:28 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:27 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Jeff: Go to Google search engine, type in "Oklahoma City police chief and immigration" click on that and it will take you to the page stating that very thing.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:27 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:26 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:25 pm
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That's too bad in Kansas. When I was younger the high school and college kids worked on harvest teams and traveled through the state and elsewhere harvesting wheat, corn. It could be that way again..
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:25 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:25 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:24 pm
WECOME TO UNITED MEXICO..........
Dave, Midwest City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:24 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Oh Desiderius, go back to your dog fighting. We'll deal with you later.
T. A., Moore - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:23 pm
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I think if ANYONE wants to live in this country then they need to respect the rules of it. If someone wants to live in this country then they need to become legal.
Jennifer, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:20 pm
A bill like this was proposed in Kansas, but the legislature buried it once they heard how much it would hurt the farm economy in Kansas.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:20 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:20 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:19 pm
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It is Hush Hush because the media is affraid that other states will adopt this great law finally putting a stranglehold on this crisis we have going on in this country. This will be one of the smartest things the State of Oklahoma has ever done. If they enforce it!! This state will benefit greatly from this. A lot less expense to support them..
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:18 pm
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:15 pm
I think it will be interesting to see how fast those other states enact laws just like this one.
Deborah - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Other states will benefit from the willing workers who leave Oklahoma. We've cut off our nose to spite our faces.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:12 pm
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Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Ken: Has anyone noticed how H. B. 1804 has become a rather, "HUSH, HUSH" topic once it became law. Before it became law, it was talked on national news quite a bit, but now, HUSH,HUSH. One only has to wonder how much money could maybe being offered.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:08 pm
You can bet if the police start arresting the CEO of the companies who hire illegals, we won't have to deport them....if they don't have a job to earn money, and we don't give them tax money that should be going to support legal poor, they will leave.
Deborah - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Sandra, we love the right kind of illegal immigrants. We call them Sooners!
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:03 pm
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Jeff: Yes, the OCPD did say he would not enforce H.B. 1804. Tulsa police and sheriff are enforcing H.B. 1804 100 percent. That is the reason the protesters are directing their anger so much toward Tulsa. If the people of OKC want H.B. 1804 enforced, you had better make sure the OCPD will get off their lazy behinds and do do their job and enforce the law the way they should.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:00 pm
Jeff: Yes, the OCPD did say he would not enforce H.B. 1804. Tulsa police and sheriff are enforcing H.B. 1804 100 percent. That is the reason the protesters are directing their anger so much toward Tulsa. If the people of OKC want H.B. 1804 enforced, you had better make sure the OCPD will get off their lazy behinds and do do their job and enforce the law the way they should.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 1:00 pm
This is rediculous. They came over ilegally. They need to be sent back, and the fact that an illegal was interviewed and openly said she was illegal, just shows how people who are here illegally take advantage of our free natures. They need to understand that yes, we are a free country, but not if you broke the law.
Go through the proper paper work and come legally. It may be hard, but some of the best things in life aren't always easy! Suck it up and reap what you sow. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said the same thing. If you aren't willing to make the sacrifices and deal with the outcome that you will recieve from what you do, then don't do it. If you aren't willing to be deported back, then don't come.
Kevin - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:59 pm
like I said before, racially prejudiced people should start thinking about something else other than themselves.....it's 2007 not the 1800's.
Elvia, Oklahoma - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Wonder why the law enforcement didn't pick up and deport all those who were illegal and attending the "meeting" on the Capitol steps? The fact is if you are here illegal, you are breaking the law. That's pretty simple - not hard to understand at all. Just go through the proper channels! America is not saying you cannot live here - just do it legally!
Lynn, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:48 pm
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Sandra, In you "quote for the day" post since you did not specify, I assume that you were referring to everyone who disagreed with as being "IGNORANT". In a later post to Rufus, you finished with "oh but you ar i...." I have to assume that the with the "i", you were calling Rufus ignorant. Correct me if I am wrong.
Bobby, Edmond - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Did anyone else hear that the OCPD police chief said he would not enforce this law ? Did that really happen?
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:39 pm
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As I recall who did I name call
SANDRA, OKLAHOMA CITY - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:29 pm
Sandra, left out a word

"you are not helping your position....."
Bobby, Edmond - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Did it offend you but I am not trying to offend anyone but if you read everyones comments
SANDRA, OKLAHOMA CITY - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Sandra, you are helping your position by resorting to name calling. Name calling is the last resort for someone failing to convince others that they are right. Grow up.
Bobby, Edmond - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Rufus I dont understand your comment, oh but you ar i....
SANDRA, OKLAHOMA CITY - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:11 pm
I don't see an issue here. 1804 is law, adios illegals!!!
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:10 pm
The protesters are not helping their cause. Immigration is allowed in this country, they have broken the laws of this land, by coming across illegally. All should leave and come back by legal means. Their failure to do so means they are going to continue to break our laws. We do not need more criminals in America. We have enough. They have put themselves in this situation and when they go back, their children should go with them. The separation of families is due to their own lack of responsibility and failure to follow the law. There is no pity for those that continue on a track of lawlessness.
Neva, Wynnewood - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:09 pm
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Oh I forgot pilgrims are WHITE
SANDRA, OKLAHOMA CITY - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Did the pilgrims come here for a better way of life same with people from other countries
SANDRA, OKLAHOMA CITY - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:05 pm
The quote for the day ALL MAN ARE CREATED EQUAL, oh i forgot you are IGNORANT you might not understand the quote duhhhhhh
SANDRA, OKLAHOMA CITY - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Anyone notice how this issue isn't making the national news?
Ken, Midwest City - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:01 pm
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The protesters are not helping their cause. Immigration is allowed in this country, they have broken the laws of this land, by coming across illegally. All should leave and come back by legal means. Their failure to do so means they are going to continue to break our laws. We do not need more criminals in America. We have enough. They have put themselves in this situation and when they go back, their children should go with them. The separation of families is due to their own lack of responsibility and failure to follow the law. There is no pity for those that continue on a track of lawlessness.
Neva, Wynnewood - Nov 2, 2007 at 12:01 pm
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Sandra - yep, gas is expensive, but rent enough busses, it'll get done.
If they really value freedom, illegals will go back to their own countries and fight for their freedom.
The government is paid for with tax money. The people pay taxes.
No benefits, no rights, nothing if you are illegal.
Ken, Midwest City - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:58 am
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Kirby, what the hell are you talking about !!! let me set the record straight I am for the Hb & sick of harvey picking on everyone !!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:57 am
Illegal aliens do not have rights to fight for, they are here illegally, they should be deported. They definitely do not deserve any benefits of the United States. I resent my tax dollars taking care of illegals and their dependents.
Tom, Fritch - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:55 am
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This teacher recognizes the challenge of educating students whose first language is not English. I have several Hispanic and Asian students in my classes. My wife has even more over at her school. We are both English teachers. However, that's our job and our love. These students will follow the pattern that immigrants have always followed in America. The parents speak their home langugage. The children are more or less bilingual. Their children make fun of the funny way grandma and grandpa talk. Their children wish they could talk the way their great grandparents spoke. This is the way it has always been and always will be. This present madness will one day be seen as the travesty of justice that it is. Those who supported it will claim they never did or were misled by others to do so.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:54 am
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Like I said It is easier said than done...............
SANDRA, OKLAHOMA CITY - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:50 am
Same old tired response Sandra, we know not everyone in prison are illegals, only 1 in four are. We would cut our prison bills by 30% if they were not here. Why import trouble, we have plenty of our own.
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:48 am
you know not only illegals are in prison
SANDRA, OKLAHOMA CITY - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:45 am
Well, many more states are doing the same thing. They finally realize how much money is being abused by all of the different services offered. The issue about taxes, I think the taxes talked about aren't income taxes. They may take taxes out of illegal immigrant paychecks, but they certainly aren't the correct amounts. Why? I'm sure they don't have social security numbers or maybe they have them, but they're not valid. So, they may think they're paying taxes, but they also forget about filing income taxes for federal and state. If they did that, they might owe a lot more than they think. Oh yeah, my grandparents came here legally, took the oath, and pledged allegiance to the United States. Grandpa fought in WWII and Korea. So, yes it offends me that people who come here outside of the law and expect everything to go their way. I realize things in Mexico are subpar. Maybe they should focus their energy to fixing Mexico instead of complaining about the conditions. I don't dispute that these people want a better life as they should. However, doing things the wrong way doesn't do any good for anyone. Fill out the paper work and do it the right way.
J.T.(I), Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:44 am
Deportation cost is a lot. But If you look at the long term our country would save money. We would start saving money within 2 years. This would account for all the free medical, housing, education etc. And this would be a safer place to live. Did you know that more Americans are Murdered EVERY YEAR by illegals that soldiers have been killed in Iraq from the beginning of the war to now.....True fact. Look it up !
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:43 am
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"Mr. Terrill is making criminals out of all of us,” Sifuentes said of Rep. Randy Terrill, author of HB 1804. "American citizens are married to people without papers, or their parents do not have papers. He has made them criminals because we are not going to turn in our family and help to have them deported.”

No one made criminals of these people! These people committed a crime and therefore they have done this to themselves.

If I break the law - I will pay the penalty - why should it be different for an illegal? We are a people who respect the law, and anyone wanting to live here should as well.

They don't - they sneak in - their first act in our country is breaking the law.

No one is separating these families except themselves.
They broke the law - no one did this for them. Their own actions have caused their heart aches.
Twana, Crescent - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:43 am
Why all the big talk here and not in your beloved country that you turn your backs on?
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:41 am
Why don't you protest an dchange Mexico instead of mooching here? Explain in 40 words or less.
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:40 am
Robin, Harvey is the boss, because he LEGALLY EARNED IT.
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:39 am
No I do not disown my country as a matter of FACT I am a citizen, No maybe you want to go with me and try to cross the border legally and maybe you will find out why so many people take the risk of crossing
SANDRA, OKLAHOMA CITY - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:39 am
Harvey, I would love it if your employer fired your butt for being on the computer all day, sucking up pay you have not earned . I think an illegal should have your job at least they might get some work done !!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:39 am
Deportation cost the goverment money dont be IGNORANT
SANDRA, OKLAHOMA CITY - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:35 am
Anyone that is for HB 1804; Do you really think its that easy to cross one border;I know that in 2001 there was a bill for immigration called 245i with that bill you could petition for a relative or spouse; if you are a citizen your spouse becomes legal with-in six months but a relative(brother or sister) takes 10-12 years; maybe If you understand immigration laws you would not be that IGNORANT; "are there borders in heaven NOT
SANDRA, OKLAHOMA CITY - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:34 am
Its "teacher", Ana.
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:31 am
Those who are here illegally must go. If you won't go, you must be deported. If not deported, you must be removed forceably. If you resist, violence will insue. One way or another, you WILL go.
Ken, Midwest City - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:29 am
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Gary, you do should like your are Prejudice. You hit it on the spot and they had you for teacheer!!!!!!!!!!!
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:28 am
Richard, You know the Church is upset because of $$$$. They will be getting a lot less If Illegals are not here. It's all about Business..
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:27 am
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koco.com(chanel 5)has a pole going.so far 2516 votes are in.1906 are for HB1804.610 are against.lets all place our vote and see who wants what.
mark, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:26 am
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The illegals are 2-faced. My ancestors worked so hard to come here legally and now illegals want me to spit on their hard work and just give amnesty. Why don't ILLEGALS come here legally, learn English and assimilate just like millions of immigrants before them? I'm so tired of hearing "This is America, speak Spanish". I will not let these criminals continue breaking into our country and using a church to harbor them.
Richard, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:24 am
I agree Gary, you hear all these "ambiguous" solutions, but the fact of the matter is, illegals don't want law enforcement here in Oklahoma. They want to take over what is ours.
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:23 am
We are smart enough to speak several languages how about you.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:22 am
When you have all the facts on your side, the looney left deals the race card to you. I don't know how many times when I was teaching that I was called a racist or a bigot because I had caught a minority student doing something wrong and was told I was prejudiced. Really sickening.
Gary, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:21 am
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Maybe if you can over for dinner you would stay forever, and want title to a bedroom?
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:19 am
I hear ya Rufus !! ( fellow lesbian )
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:18 am
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Ana Maria says "You know I see white people and black people going to eat Mexican food and drinking mexican beer and even going to the Cinco de Mayo at Bricktown. How funny are these two face people" Maybe because, like we have been telling you, we aren't racist! We are against illegals of all kinds. We are not against Mexicans.
Teresa, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:18 am
Enough people have called me a racist too Jeff, I guess I'm one too. I like women also, so I guess I'm a lesbian too.
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:17 am
The difference is, after I go to Mexico, I go back home.
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:16 am
ok. Guys, now this is cool !! I am seeing American flags popping up every ware lots of homes are raising our nation’s flag. I will have mine up this weekend. Who’s with me?
mark, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:15 am
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By the way Lynn, I never said I was not a racist. If not wanting ANYONE here that is not legal makes me a racist I guess that's what I am. I am a Racist towards anyone that is not here legally. White, Mexican, Asian, etc. etc. etc.
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:11 am
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As a retired public school teacher I put much stock into what Rufus is saying. These illegals are flooding Texas public schools with their children and is affecting the learning process to no end. A friend of my teaches in Texas and tells me almost half of all his classes can speak little or no English. He says the quality of education for the U.S citizens kids has gone down the gutter because the teachers spend more time trying to control and discipline the non-English speaking students rather than teaching the subject matter. If the state law can prevent this from happening in our public schools, then I say "RIGHT ON"! You people that want to try to educate all these illegals' children don't know what you are doing to public education in this state.
Gary, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:09 am
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hey anna maria nos puedes decir todo lo que quieran pero aqui estamos y no nos vamos !!!!!!!!
dayanara, yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:08 am
I've worked concrete, restaurants, mowed yards and threw a paper route in THIRD AND FOURTH GRADES, don't cry to me about work.
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:07 am
They would be called Tacanas, Rufus.LOL

Have to go work to support the illegals, tata.
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:03 am
what money would we take from you if don't have none you said it yourself dave!!! is that english enough for you or you just cant read (KIRBY)
dayanara, yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:02 am
The sad part is that companies are complaining that they are having to hire homeless people and ex-convicts, and pay them well. No cacca, that is what they are supposed to do. Also, the jobs that teenagers traditionally did have been taken over by illegal aliens, on the fake notion that teens won't do them. Certainly, as was always the case, aliens that wanted to pick produce were allowed in on temporary visa since I was a kid, and that hard work is never going to be done by white collars, ship people in for those, but otherwise, pay more for the labor, we will pay more for the product, which is fine if my neighbors, the homeless and ex-cons can get the jobs THEY ARE ENTITLED TO, NOT ILLEGALS, and live productive lives.

Also, the notion that employers are paying fica, futa, suta and witholding taxes and remitting them is laughingstockable as they pay them CASH.

Go home and revolt your own country or does Mexico suck that bad that you dont want it?
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:01 am
Harvey, go buy an indian reservation and take them all in, Ana will cook them some tacos...
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:01 am
All these people who claim not to be racists (I don't mind LEGAL MEXICANS, just the ILLEGAL ones.), remind me of the days when people claimed not to be prejudiced against black people. (I don't hate Negroes. In fact, one of my good friends is black. I just don't like those pushy people like King and Jackson.) I suppose they think that legal Mexicans are a credit to their race!
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 11:00 am
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Anna, don't you see how racist that last comment was. You imply that eating at a Mexican food restaurant is supporting illegal immigrants. That also implies that all Mexicans are here illegally. I am sure that is not the case, as much those opposed to this law would like us to think.
Bobby, Edmond - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:59 am
There is flooding in Tobasco Mexico. What is the refugee requirements under the United Nations High Commission for Refugee Affairs? Quick, all of you Mexican people that have had family leave or been deported for being illegal, tell them to turn around and come back and claim refugee status for being displaced by natural disaster whether or not they are from Tobasco or not. There are over 900,000 people displaced due to flooding. My fellow Oklahomans that is about 1/4 of the population of our state. See what I mean there is a whole world that exists outside of Moore, OK and Spencer,OK population under 4,000. How blessed are we Oklahomans?
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:59 am
ana do you go to McDonalds.. two faces huh?
C, Noble - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:58 am
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SPEAK ENGLISH..............MY GOD IT'S NOT THAT HARD.
Dave, Midwest City - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:55 am
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Your 100% right Kirby...well said. We would be thrown into a mexican prison and forgoten about unless we had money to give the guards. The problem there is they will throw your a*& in jail for no reason other thatn being an american....I know this for a fact. But here in the U.S. we have to treat all people fair and with just....BULLS*&^. This is the reason america has no money because we give it to the illegals that come in and take over. And I'm tired of heraing all this who will work crap...WE WILL WORK. The govenment needs to cut off the welfare folks and put them in those jobs that need to be filled. You don't work you don't get help.....I'm not racist, this goes for anyone who is illeagl..MEXICAN, ASIAN, GERMAN, CUBAN AND WHAT EVERELSE COMES THROUGH THE CRACKS.
Dave, Midwest City - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:54 am
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Ana Maria, The reason for this is most of us don't have a problem with LEGAL Mexicans. I don't mind supporting them at all. I enjoy Mexican food and beer. I do want them to do it legally like my German ancestors did. And they learned ENGLISH too !!! Imagine that !!
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:53 am
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Anyone who claims to have come here for a better life and didn't go through the legal process of getting here is little more than a thief. I have no pity for them. I do pity their children that they have to suffer because of the bad decisions their parent(s) made. But that's life regardless of who the parents are and where they're located. I have NO legal or moral obligation to overlook their criminal choices and let them simply take what me and my ancestors have worked so hard to build. If they want a country like the United States, then let them all go home and build one for themselves.
T. A., Moore - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:52 am
Ana and Dayanara, please put one sentence together that is proper and spelled correctly.No spanglish
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:52 am
But Ana, at least those races won't be illegals anymore.
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:50 am
You know I see white people and black people going to eat Mexican food and drinking mexican beer and even going to the Cinco de Mayo at Bricktown. How funny are these two face people.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:49 am
Rufus, spencer ....we all know they are not going back to mexico , but if they go to the next state over then that state can see the problems and adopt themselves a law .start with the states all across the top of the u.s and work our way down to the border.no mass deportation but a slow sqeeze play.problem solved
mark, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:49 am
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I hate to tell you Deborah, but you are supporting all the races that file welfare!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:46 am
Mark, that 24 % is the same person voting over and over, it's more like 99.999999 to .000000000001
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:45 am
These illegals say they just want a better life. Ok I don't blame them for that. BUT SO DO WE!!! Our quality of life goes down for every illegal that we get taxed for. It's not our problem their country is not a good place to live but they keep trying to make it our problem. Pisses me off !!
Jeff - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:44 am
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I do Ana, I saw the freeloaders on the State Capitol steps trying to manipulate their way into staying and taking from us free, for free...
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:44 am
hey kerby make sure you dont go into mexico then
dayanara, yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:44 am
one poll shows 76 percent of oklahoma aproves of the bill while only 24 percent disaprove.about the same as most blogs i have seen.
mark, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:42 am
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Really, we have illegals marching on OUR state capitol to protest OUR laws. Why don't they go home and march on their own government for better jobs and conditions??
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:42 am
rufus, you should know.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:41 am
Ok people.....if these people want to live like american's, why don't they just go back home and have their own revolution so that their country can be modeled after ours. There is certainly enough of them. I am probably considered a lower middle class salaried person and it is all I can do to buy a few groceries myself. I would prefer not to support these people with my hard earned tax dollars.
Deborah - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:40 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:37 am
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:37 am
Oh Cletus, you obviously came out of a donkey's ass as a result of your inbreeding
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:36 am
No I wouldn't. I don't want a bunch of illegals doing it either. Farmers can only charge what the market will bare regardless if they have to start paying their help a decent wage. In other words, if they charge to much, no one will buy..
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:36 am
If Americans were doing this in Mexico they would beat our asses and slap us in jail, stealing all of our stuff
Joe Bob, Norman - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:35 am
Rufus would you go and work in fields and pick fruits and veggies cotton and all those things for 6 to 7 dollars and hour and work for more than 8 hrs a day be honest?
dayanara, yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:29 am
Ana, it's the land of free, not freeloader..
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:19 am
Harvey, why should someone who came here illegally get more consideration then someone who is waiting to enter this country legally? Why should the person doing the right thing be told their spot just got taken by someone who did the wrong thing?
Teresa, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:18 am
If wanting illegal aliens out of my home is wrong, I don't want to be right! Kicking illegals out of the State of Oklahoma is our business, and people, BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:18 am
Your people are on welfare too.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:18 am
I can't believe how many dumb people leave in this Great country, we call Amercia the land of the free. Right rufus.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:18 am
As laws are passed and enforced the criminal element of an estimated 80,000 illegals in the state of Oklahoma flee. That 80,000 welfare cases, not employees...
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:17 am
Stop being angry because someone calls you Okie morons..you all can't help it you sleep with your sisters and kiss your daddies.
Cletus, Mayberry - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:15 am
Didn't the illegals who came here leave their families back in Mexico? I prefer to say we're reuniting families...
Chris, Jones - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:13 am
ya no kle hagan caso a eso racisita rufus
dayanara, yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:10 am
Teresa, I wasn't ignoring you. I do have a job that I have to tend to. I don't know what the solutions are and yes I know someone exactly like Carlos. Jose is dark skinned and obviously Mexican, however that is where all similarities end. He being raised on the American diet has every bit of an American built, height, weight, he has no accent and I doubt his Spanish even sounds like the Mexican dialect from the state his family came from. To me he is an American. Years later I find out he was brought here as a child and has no documents. I don't advocate protecting all "illegals" I say if they don't have any roots, they are in a different category. People like Jose need to be given different consideration under the law. I am guessing Jose has been here 40+ years and before anyone says that is plenty of time to get business taken care of. It was, I agree. However, his aunt who was the one that began bringing her family over was busy working, buying property and providing for her family and immediate and extended. American Citizens that chose a mate that was illegal and have children with them need to also be in a separate category. The law needs to protect the immigrant that has a long history here. Rufus, what kind of work do you do? Spencer has no industry. I am guessing that you are an elderly retired man. If not, then you are sitting at home pounding your keyboard, drinking beer, or wine living off of Supplemental Security Income and probably have an Access card for foods assistance. If you are one of the 100,000s of American that are living off the American taxpayers maybe we need a law to rid society of the likes of you. You know a six pack is good, a twelve pack even better, a party ball is acceptable, but you are working on a keg!
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:08 am
though not perfect, the curve of democracy bends towrd justice.
rich, moore - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:06 am
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Desiderius, You forget that Rufus is the only perfect one in this world. He will do everybody's job.
Ana Maria, Yukon - Nov 2, 2007 at 10:04 am
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I am through. I've made my point. In closing, though I don't agree with most of you but I have fought for my country for your right to say what you think.
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:54 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:54 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:54 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:53 am
How can you fight for your rights, when you didn't earn them in the first place. They bring their problems, their diseases, their issues and care them over to us? What would they like for us to do? I don't understand, if you want something for yourself come over legally. You come here to work? You tear our families apart, leave our children hungry, leave our children with out medical care, while you TAKE, TAKE, and TAKE... Is that fair to bring your problems here and make them ours?
If you want to come here legally fight our WAR, fight for your freedom in this country like the thousands and hundreds of men and women over in Iraq... You want your rights, but you can't PICK which rights to have. How can you come here and feel good you are a citizen.. if you want it.. Fight in Iraq.. fight for what AMERICA stands for not for what you want. No one that is a citizen here, has made it because it was easy. Every citizen has earned their right and worked hard, just to be denied from illegals. It doesn't make sense? EARN IT... You have created your problem you knew what you would be getting into.. ???? uhh.. then why fight it.. you broke the law.. and if we gave you automatic citizen ship.. who is to say you will be law abiding since they think they are ABOVE the law now.. why would they be if they are citizens...
C, Noble - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:52 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:51 am
Robert, you are wrong. All human beings have rights whether or not a particular government considers them to be "legal" or "illegal". For example, a child who came to this country illegally with her parents, has a right by federal law to a free, public education.
Lynn, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:50 am
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Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:50 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:50 am
It's a sad dark day how liberals have taken over a once conservative church calling law abiding Americans racist.
Richard, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:50 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:50 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:50 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:50 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:50 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:49 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:49 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:49 am
Poor, poor, bobby. I have made him mad as hell because he doesn't understand economics and is uneducated. Not my problem moron!
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:48 am
This is a reply to the lady at the protest, who said that she was not here legally, but was going to fight for here rights, does she not relize that by being illegal she has no rights in this country. what would here take on the situation be if she was still living in her own country, and I sliped across the border and went to her employer and said I would be willing to take her job for half of what he is paying her.
Not good I'm sure!!
ROBERT, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:44 am
People,you can make a point without the name calling,everyone who posts here is entitle to their own opinion! Please be nice.
Dave, Blue Rapids - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:43 am
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Disiderius, You go from name calling to condescension to obnoxious arrogance. I was willing to ignore the condescension towards me but your response to Rufus was over the top. Do you really believe that you are the only educated poster out there? I must assume that the 20% who are college educated all agree with your point view while the 60% opinionated morons must be the uneducated who don't agree with you. I, for one, do not get off on trading insults with the likes of you. If you have something besides insults and condescension, post away, otherwise go get a life.
Bobby, Edmond - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:38 am
I am of Navtive American and Hispanic decent. I am proud of what I am and always will be. And now that this HB 1804 is the Law, I'm pretty sure I get sterotyped. But I could care less what people think of me. They don't know me... I have been following the Immigration Law since it first came about. But I have two different views on this HB 1804. Reading this article, I have to agree with Rep. Mike Shelton on his quote. "This is how change happens. They are not the first group to come to the south side steps of the Capitol to change things,” Shelton said. "I'm a firm believer of Dr. Martin Luther King, and it's like he said, 'INJUSTICE ANYWHERE IS INJUSTICE EVERYWHERE'. Also, I agree with another quote "THIS FEAR AND ANXIETY HAS BEEN WHIPPED UP BY THE LEADERS OF THE LATINO AND HISPANIC COMMUNITY" I think it is being blown a little out of proportion. I have two very close friends that are married to illegal immigrants. One had contacted me the day before the law went into effect. She was very worried that they are going to come take her husband away. I eased her mind a little, by telling her that it would take WAY TOO MUCH TIME AND MONEY TO GET EVERY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT THERE IS. This is the land of the free and home of the brave. We are a big Melting Pot. But come on, if you want to live here, in America. Lets do it right. I know it takes more time and money to get citizenship than it did when my grandfather came over, God rest his soul. BUT, Let's just get it done the right way.
Jaye, Oklahoma City - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:36 am
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Harvey, you ignored my questions and instead accused me of things. What do you see as the solution? You think that these people living here in America illegal is the way it should be? Give me some answers and solutions here. Yesterday on this site somewhere was a boy named Carlos who said he was brought here at 3. He is a poster child for all that is wrong with this situation. His parents messed up his life. Totally. He doesn't want to leave, but does he really want to live the rest of his life in fear and in the shadows? Or should he do what he needs to do to get in this country legally? Only then will he be free to be a true American.
Teresa, oklahoma city - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:25 am
As the burden of dealing with perhaps as many as 100,000 additional illegals in one year weighs heavily on schools, hospitals, police departments, and social service agencies, Governor Rick Perry soon may be compelled to call a special session of the Texas Legislature to deal with the problem. Special legislative sessions in Texas are permitted to address only the issue for which they are called. Passing a Texas version of Oklahoma House Bill 1804 may be necessary to protect already overburdened public services from being completely overwhelmed by illegal aliens looking for a more hospitable state. Since Oklahoma Bill 1804 has gotten past Federal Court review, passing a bill with parallel language in Texas may be the Lone Star State’s only recourse in the face of the invasion it is now experiencing.
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:19 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:19 am
Looks like the law is working :), if Texas was smart, they would pass one just like it.
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:18 am
As Oklahoma House Bill 1804 goes into effect, tens of thousands of illegal aliens are fleeing across the Red River into Texas. An employee of a Dallas – Fort Worth Metroplex area school district, speaking on the condition of anonymity, stated this morning, “We were already unable to deal with the thousands of children of illegal immigrants in our school district. Now we are seeing an influx of new children being enrolled 2 ½ months after the new school year has already started. These kids tell us that they are coming from Tulsa, Oklahoma City, and other places in Oklahoma. Their families are here illegally, and they are afraid that they will be arrested if they stay in Oklahoma, or that they won’t be able to get ‘off-the-books’ jobs anymore. These aren’t just Mexican kids – we are seeing kids from Central America, South America, Asia, and the Middle East, as well. Frankly, I don’t know where we are going to put them.”
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:17 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:17 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:17 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:17 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:17 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:16 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:15 am
Sorry Rufus, that's the best I can do on one cup of coffee!
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:15 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:14 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:10 am
That's it?? You dissappoint...
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:10 am
Sad Rufus for sure. But, I don't really give a damn what people think of me! I have to look at the source. An Okie from Okiehoma where 20% are functionally illiterate, and 20%, like me, who have college degrees. And the other 60% are opinionated morons!
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:08 am
Come on Harvey, Planet of the Apes? I have to admit you have an active imagination. You're going to buy Spencer from the Kickapoos and let all the Illegals live there, HB 1804 allows women to beat their sons up and now Planet of the Apes. HB 1804 is just a mirror law to Federal Immigration laws to allow us to enforce them because they won't.
Rufus, spencer - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:06 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:04 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:04 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:04 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:03 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:02 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:02 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:02 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:02 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:02 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:02 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:02 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:02 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:01 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:01 am
Desiderius, Uptown - Nov 2, 2007 at 9:01 am
Teresa it is about flesh and blood breathing human beings. You all remind me of the