Fear may cause revenue drop, treasurer says
Fear may cause revenue drop, treasurer says

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By Michael McNutt
Published: December 9, 2007

The apparent exodus of thousands of Hispanics due to fear of Oklahoma's new immigration law could explain the recent drop in sales tax revenue, a top finance official said.

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"If it is true that a lot of people left this state because of that bill, as we're hearing anecdotally, then you would expect to see a dip in your sales tax collections,” state Treasurer Scott Meacham said.

"From a state revenue standpoint, there may be an impact.”

The House author of the immigration law, state Rep. Randy Terrill, said the downturn in tax collections was expected.

However, Oklahoma will have a net savings because less money will be given to illegal immigrants or spent on expenses caused by them, he said.

"There appears to be significant anecdotal evidence that illegal aliens are leaving the state of Oklahoma, particularly in the northeast part of the state in and around the Tulsa area” and the Panhandle, Terrill said.

"So certainly there is some indication that House Bill 1804 is having a contingent effect of causing illegal aliens to leave the state of Oklahoma by denying them access to jobs, as well as taxpayer-funded benefits.”

An estimated 100,000 to 250,000 illegal immigrants have been living in Oklahoma, he said.

House Bill effects
Sales tax collections fell below last year's collections in October, just as the state began receiving reports of Hispanics leaving Oklahoma because of fears over the immigration law.

House Bill 1804 took effect Nov. 1.

Meacham, who serves as Gov. Brad Henry's Cabinet secretary of revenue and finance, said it will be interesting to note sales tax collections for the next few months to see whether the dip in sales tax collections continues.

The next revenue report on state tax collections is expected Tuesday.

Last month's report showed sales tax collections for September produced $123.7 million for the month of October.

That amount was $400,000, or 0.3 percent, below the same month last year and $6 million, or 4.6 percent, below estimates.

It was only the second time in the past 12 months that sales tax collections failed to exceed the amount of money collected for the same month the previous year.

The earlier downfall in sales tax activity for January was blamed on bad ice storms.

The timing of October's lower-than-expected sales tax collections could be just "coincidental” to the implementation of HB 1804, Meacham said.

Labor supply issues
Unofficial tallies show that 20,000 to 50,000 Hispanics have left the state in the past couple of months because of fears over HB 1804.

Exact figures are difficult to obtain because it's unknown how many illegal immigrants have been living or continue to live in the state.

The loss of that many people would result in fewer goods — food, clothing and supplies — being bought, Meacham said. The state collects sales taxes on those items.

It's clear a significant number of Hispanics have left the state.

"The problem right now that I'm hearing out there is labor supply issues in the ag sector, in the energy sector, in the construction sector, in various pockets around the state,” Meacham said.

Landscape contractors are having difficulty hiring employees, even when offering jobs at $15 an hour, or about twice the minimum wage, he said.

Terrill, R-Moore, said figures compiled last year by a House study gathering information on preparing HB 1804 indicated illegal immigrants contributed about $21 million a year in tax collections — about $11 million in income tax and about $10 million in sales tax.

"I would compare and contrast that with the direct cost of illegal immigration that came out of that interim study that showed the direct cost was in excess of $200 million,” he said.

The cost of illegal immigrants is a drain on the state's public schools, health care, prisons and welfare system, he said.

"That doesn't even count the cost to private individuals who get smashed into by an uninsured illegal alien,” Terrill said. "It's pretty clear that when you compare the $200 million in direct costs versus the $21 million that illegal aliens contribute that illegal immigration is a net financial drain to the state of Oklahoma.”

Meacham said the state could save money in the long run by having fewer illegal immigrants. But the state has to get through the immediate struggles of having less sales tax revenue and labor shortages that will see construction and other costs increase.

"Like a lot of things you may have to live through some short-run pain,” he said.

"The question is how long does the short term last, how many years, and what does that do to the economy in the meantime.”


 


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Having a father who was a homebuilder, the illegals were a big part of the construction business. If they are leaving for other parts of the country, they will take their skills with them such as rock layers, brick layers, roofers, concrete finishers, etc and they will do just as well wherever they go, however, Oklahoma with the upheavel already showing a diminished taxing toll will feel the domino effect on the economy.
Candace, Lakeland - Dec 19, 2007 at 7:55 am
Sara, an unforgiving bigot can't enter the Kingdom of Heaven from my understanding of the Bible...
Candace, Lakeland - Dec 19, 2007 at 7:42 am
Would you like to quote where that verse came from and the context of that as well. Don't use the bible out of context and to justify your racist behavior. As far as the tax dollars going to immigrants, I may agree that is wrong for them to do that and that of being a tax burden. It may be you are needy and are complaining about not having a piece of the pie. However, for your FYI, we give billions more to the rest of world anyway in federal tax dollars. So what is your problem?
Alan, Oklahoma City - Dec 12, 2007 at 10:13 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Alan
. The economy has always slowed down this time of the year, and will not pick up again until after April 15, after everyone has paid their taxes, that is, those of us that have to pay taxes. I read in the paper that forty one percent of all babies that were born this past year, were born to unwed mothers, with a third of those biths, to mothers that does not speak English. I bet if the true count was revealed, it would show a much higher rate to the illegals. More freebies for the illegal criminals. I get upset having to pay for our own citizens and the unwed mothers, and it sure irks me to have to shell out tax dollars to the darn illegals and their offsprings. To all you illegals that like to quote the Bible, here is a good Bible verse for you: "A bastard can not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Dec 10, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Harv. I wish I were so enlightened. I guess I see the anchor babies (and there are plenty of them) delivered at the expense of the American taxpayer. I stand in line at the supermarket bahind these food stamp illegals with cart loads of prepared foods and last have had my own experience with the lack of responsibility on their part. You'll have to find someone else to take your agenda to. 1804 is a good bill. If these people are naturalized and allowed to vote, they will rob our treasury with that vote. Look at California for an example.
howard, Oklahoma City - Dec 10, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Repeal Hate Bill 1804!!
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Dec 10, 2007 at 1:41 pm
The shortfall in revenue will be 100 million for the coming 11 months to include Nov 2007. That is a VERY CONSERVATIVE estimate on the sales tax revenue only and this is based on only 25,000 illegals leaving and an economic impact multiplier of 4. We NEED TO EMPLOY and ECONOMIST to help shape public policy in Oklahoma. How much of the state income taxes are paid in and not refunded because of an illegals documents and come on they DON'T all get paid under the table. Like our vibrant, thriving economy was criticized during the Clinton Administration. It was said that all the jobs created were low paying service industry jobs. Well as we will see once more in the economy each and every transaction ADDS UP! Don't argue with me, argue with the principles of economics.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Dec 10, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Ana, because my family is hungry ,I just go the front of the line cut in front of everyone else that has a hungry family & that would be ok???? I stay in my country do what I can to feed my family & then work on finding a legal way to enter someones else's country, to get the better life that you speak of. We have people right here in our own country that are legal US citizen's that go to bed hungry every night & do without healthcare so that you can come on over & use our system because your family is hungry , well what about everyone else that was here legally ? Just pull up the ladder Ana is aboard. God is there for anyone who seeks him & I don't think he would condone breaking the law.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 10, 2007 at 12:49 pm
By the way Ana, I do have an ax to grind with some illegals.You might say I have an vendetta. My wife's car was hit by an unlcensed, uninsured, illegal. I'll let you guess who had to pay my $500. deductable for that accident. That would have taken care of some nice Christmas shopping, but at least we have the car repaired. I'm glad she was not seriously hurt Thank the Lord. Poor guy wants a better life. What about our life?
howard, Oklahoma City - Dec 10, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Ana, Bethany; I can see where you are coming from. Why don't we welcome all comers, you know Africans etc. for a better life. My complaint has nothing to do with Christianity or what the bible says ("Obey the law of the land"). I guess I am thinking how can we afford these parasites. Yes they want a better life; we all do. Long ago Americans learned to work and progress. Do you really believe Americans won't do the work done by these people. That's what some of the business people want you to believe. You talk about Terrills slant. Wake up and smell the roses. Pay an American a decent wage and find out. People in this country worked for a living wage. All that has changed. Now we have been invaded by illegal aliens who work for less and they are breaking the system designed to help the needy. More than eighty emergency rooms in California have been bankrupted by them and on and on. You cant't see what they are doing to your country. As far as some of the rest of not being as good a Christian as you, perhaps you should read your Bible a little more. Start with the seventh chapter of Mat. first verse. I hope that I will never be a good enough Christian to judge another. By the way I speak Spanish and have some idea of the thinking of the illegals. They don't want to be Americans. They want to be Mexicans working here.
howard, Oklahoma City - Dec 10, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Ana, Bethany... Good Lord, same old "song and dance.".. Regardless of what excuse you want to use for breaking the law, ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL !!!! Randy Terrill and H.B. 1804 are the best thing that has ever happened in Oklahoma. Those of us with a sane mind know this.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Dec 10, 2007 at 9:43 am
You know you guys sure have much to investigate. I researched Randy Terrill's so called "information" and it was all skewed one way or another or totally false. You're lives may not be going so well, therefore you need someone to point your finger at and blame for all of your problems. Just like you blamed all of the politicians who in short words are defending illegal immigrants you should blame Randy Terrill as well for manipulating information in a dishonest way. Gosh, how hypocritical can you guys get? Open your eyes and look what’s out there. Has it ever occurred to you that all illegal immigrants want to be legal, pay taxes, pay for insurance, and buy their own home just like everyone else? You say go to the back of the line, but when your family is hungry that’s not an option. What would you rather do wait 15 to 20 years so you can enter the U.S. legally or risk your life just to send some cash back home. Please can you be any more ignorant? Where are your ancestors from? Read a history book, maybe you will learn a thing or two. Oh one more thing, all of the people who call themselves Christians, I suggest you re-read your bible, because you’re dramatically contradicting your faith.
Ana, Bethany - Dec 9, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Ana
You're probably right Jason I may live a lot like that but I have to pay for it. When my wife's car was hit on Hefner parkway by an unlicensed, uninsured, illegal alien, who do you think had to pay for the repairs on her car? That guy didn't. My insurance had to take care of it, minus my deductable. Do you think that my premium for that insurance is perhaps a bit higher because of the illegal alien problem. Maybe it's just me because I have an ax to grind. I guess I'm not being fair to the poor guy who is only here for a better life. AT MY EXPENSE. I lived on the west coast where if you had a home built, it was done by skilled union labor. That has been a while back. Now that is all done by not so skilled illegals at a much lower pay. These people are killing many trades in this state and country. Get real $21 mil taxes gets $200 mil services. I'll take a deal like that any day over what I get. Maybe you're better with numbers than I. Tell me how it's done.
howard, Oklahoma City - Dec 9, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Quick somebody call immigration & have them meet the fake jason at wings!!!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 9, 2007 at 7:56 pm
and howard...you allready do live like that...
Randy, Moore - Dec 9, 2007 at 1:59 pm
hey jason...we are heading up to buffalo wild wings...catch the minnesota game...you know spend money...raise taxes..help a sigle mom watress out... you know what i mean...you in?
Randy, Moore - Dec 9, 2007 at 1:58 pm
i was cuddling a bible all night .....alone.....in my apartment.... thanks to you taxpayers..
Randy, Moore - Dec 9, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Good grief, if it's not Meacham it's Edmondson, if it's not Edmondson it's the Governor's dippy "ethnic advisory panel," if it's not those three it's a turncoat Republican from Seminole. Seems nearly every thing that has gone wrong in this state lately has been laid at the feet of HB 1804. What sickens me most about these disgusting little bureaucrats--morons like Edmondson, Meachem, et al--is that they are playing a scummy version of "firefighters first." That is the phenomenon of when a bill is passed or taxes are cut and the bureaucrats, angry about either or both, retaliate by cutting funding to essential services FIRST, and then blame it on the "short sightedness" of the taxpayers they serve. In this case, these officials are pointing to every single negative indicator in the state, and, utterly without evidence, continually putting the blame on HB 1804. Their demagogic actions cannot but disgust decent Oklahomans everywhere.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 9, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Sorry I was addressing your coment, while having a disagreenebt with Margaret. Good sense thinking on your part.
howard, Oklahoma City - Dec 9, 2007 at 1:39 pm
You mean Margaret, that you think that these (honest??) people who hire these illegal aliens and pay below scale wages effect what we make? If you worked and took home your earnings instead of paying income tax and social security, you'd see a lot more in your check, like they do. If you didn't buy car insurance, if you don't pay for medical care, add nauseum perhaps you could manage the way the illegals do. Don't you think illegal is a harsh term for law breakers. Come on try to be a little understanding. What do you expect when you and I are in the position of having to pay their medical bills and buy their food. They live a lot better than you and I. I want to be an illegal alien in my next life, so I can live like that. If I can pay $2.10 and get back $20.00 I'll do it. Don't blame the illegals blame the elected people who allow this to happen. If a criminal is allowed to continue illegal activity with no recourse, he'll do it.
howard, Oklahoma City - Dec 9, 2007 at 1:16 pm
Did it ever occur to these people that average legal Americans may not be spending as much due to the high cost of fuel? The fact that they are trying to pay mortgage payments on top of this & feed a family. Maybe we don't have enough money to shop because our jobs are low paying because they can get the illegal guy to do it instead of paying a decent wage!!! These people make me sick !!!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 9, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Hmmm let's see here. I can pay 21,000,000 and get back 200,000,000 in freebies? I know a good deal when I see one. How do I go about becoming illegal? Pretty good deal. These are some very busy people. When I stand in line behind an illegal alien in the super market and see them load the cart with all those prepared foods paid for by my taxes I get a little bit envious. They must spend all their time working and don't have time to prepare a good meal. Even their medicaid has better benefits than the medicare for us old people who paid for it. Repeat, how do I become illegal? Please publish that information. I have a lot of older American friends who would like to get in on this too. I can understand some profiteer hiring these people to work and be paid under the table. It's a lot cheaper than hiring an American for a livable wage. If I become illegal maybe I'll understand.
howard, Oklahoma City - Dec 9, 2007 at 9:50 am

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