The Oklahoma Corporation Commission this morning praised utility companies for their efforts to restore power, but added it intends to undertake an evaluation of whether it would be beneficial to require electrical lines to be buried.
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"We have had two storms of the century already this calendar year," Commissioner Jeff Cloud says. "Everybody is busy by doing what they need to do, and they are doing a great job in extremely difficult conditions.
"But we cannot be the only state with above-ground lines that faces ice storms, so we are going to get together and start comparing notes about how other states do this.
"This is about starting a discussion and doing some serious analysis about what the costs are, and what the positives are. One question we definitely will ask is whether burying lines would help us in storms like we are experiencing now."
Cloud said he has friends in areas where lines are buried who only marginally have been inconvenienced by this storm, and others in historic areas of the city who suffered through outages lasting 24 hours and longer.
"This is not meant to be a distraction. This is something we are looking at long term to hopefully address a major problem," he said.
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All of our utilities are underground where I live in MWC but it's a tree down further on Reno at a rent house that has knocked out our power. There's no one there to even call it in. OG&E was there a couple of days ago but so far to no avail...... I wish FEMA would quit giving money out to folks who can afford generators and give generators to the ones who can't. They can have our FEMA assistance money to help someone who really needs it and can't afford to be off work......
Just leave everything alone like it is, it is fun to have an ice storm and for the power to be knocked out for a while lets people get back to reality and slow there lives down. plus you get some time off work also. So stop knocking it folks enjoy it. I cant wait for the next ice storm to come through hopefully we will have more next year.
Stephanie (MWC), unless you do it your self brnach by branch, you're going to have to hire a pro to remove it. Otherwise, you take risk of having it crash onto your house if it doesn't kill you first. Man, that would be some really nice wood for fireplace or smoking a brisket.
Mike.. you're totally right. I forgot about gas stoves since I haven't had one in so many years. They can keep the kitchen pretty warm although last time I slept in the kitchen was during my college years and it was the closest room to the front door to pass out in. I only brought it up because it tickled me when Margaret said something about having a gas heater and made me think of my wonderful mother in law who always provides loads of interesting conversations.
Oh.. btw... anyone can have buried electric lines ... from the service poll to their meter. You can did the ditch, and O.G. and E. will drop the lines.. and (a contractor can hook them up). Not expensive, but only takes care of your house and not the transmission lines themselves.
I sure didn't want to say anything.. blah.blah..blah.. but Jan, bless your heart, you can't think outside the box. My kitchen can stay pretty darn warm..I have a gas stove and oven. But, I'm not even sure why you even brought it up. This isn't about substitute heating sources. Maybe it should be, but wind turbines, and solar panels etc. etc. oh well.. I guess we always tend to do what's easiest.. not best.
Lori, no one is claiming it would be "simple," but it can be done. And has been. When I was in the Air Force all the power lines on our base were buried underground. Despite being stationed in a country that has five hundred times more snow and ice every year than Oklahoma could ever dream of - Germany - we never experienced a "power outage" even ONCE anywhere on my base. Funny thing, neither did the surrounding German cities, towns, and villages: their power lines were buried underground, too. Now, I live in an Edmond neighborhood that has all its utility lines buried underground, and I haven't lost power throughout this ice storm. Call me a simple-minded observer of the world around me, but it's a funny thing that...hmmm, stationed while in the service in one of the most snow and ice-prone countries in the world where they bury all the electric lines - and never lost power while living there. And, a further Hmmmm...living in Edmond where most of the power lines are buried underground, and have yet to lose power in this ice storm. Somehow, I'll take my experiences over your silly rants to the contrary, and continue to advocate that power companies do the right thing and bury their utility lines. Thanks.
Troy, generally I'm pretty reserved with my statements but KISS MY BUTT. Gas will not allow you to have a heat source other than hot water. Tell me, how much heat did that gas fireplace produce without any kind of system to force the heat out? Very very very little. I wasn't putting Margaret down rather I got tickled thinking about having to explain to my mother in law why her gas heat was not going to prevent her water pipes from freezing or keep her house warm. You should really get a life. It doesn't take that much common sense to know that your heat is useless when it's gas without an ELECTRIC fan. My sister too has a gas fireplace and she wasn't able to stay in their homes because it was just too cold if you were more than 12 inches away from the fireplace. They have been without power for 4 days and cannot go home because of the lack of electricity. I also grew up with a gas heating system AND a gas fireplace and without electricity again, you're just SOL. The hot water is a good thing but still doesn't help keep your entire body warm although if you happen to have enough old Douche Bags laying around you might can pack them around your body.
First of all, let me tell you, I know for a fact that the CEO of OGE lost power during this storm. We have the LOWEST electricity prices in the nation, but everytime OGE has asked for any price increase, customers pitch a fit about prices. Do you truly think that all it would take is to dig ditches and trenches in order bury the lines..if it was that simple, don't you think that it would be done by now! I say -- hats off to the tireless line workers who are working in these cold conditions in order to get our power restored. Thank you very much!
OK, Kelly. How much money do you think this storm is going to cost everybody? How much did it cost us in 2002? Let's see - repeat this disaster every seven years... Kinda adds up on this end. Bury the damn lines.
Our neighborhood power is underground direct to the substation. We lost power for a total of 5 minutes these past couple of days. Many european countries do it. Many states do it. It's time to formalize long term planning into a robust infrastructure. Or we can just sit on our keesters and ignore it until the next big one.
Jan, Idiots should not be putting down Margaret. Gas power will allow you to still have hot water, and my parents have a gas fireplace which gave them some heat. Quit talking about what you know nothing about.
Are you kidding, we can't even get our city streets repaired correctly, and you want them to attempt to dig a bunch of holes around and across roads! Wait..maybe they will put in some more of those pretty brick walking paths between the potholes they have patched 20 times already!!
Cmon OG&E, someone come on here and explain why we have had several ice storms in the past few years, yet not once do you trim trees back from lines during the summer/fall. You'd save a lot of time and heartache if you did this. Admit you dropped the ball..you had several days advance notice of this storm, yet no one from OG&E was out in the days before this storm doing ANYTHING. I love it how Gary Englund predicts a major storm but the forces that be sit on their hands and don't do squat until after the fact.
Bill, you may indeed be right and I might be all wet as regards these matters. Still, I wonder what kind of neighborhood the OG&E execs and VP's live in: one like mine, where the power lines are buried and the lights are still on, or one like the vast majority of their customers who are currently without power? I think it would be a very interesting--and telling--anecdotal survey.
Jason,
I do not think the OG&E distribution system is not poorly designed. I also do not think that regulated utilities are interested in short term gain. They are here to get us the power as economically and as reliably as possible - and the corporation commission is there to make sure they do.
c, you put your finger on part of the problem: OG&E doesn't give a fig what it costs THE STATE, meaning the taxpayers, or their customers when the entire grid collapses under the weight of a poorly designed system; they would care very much what it would cost THEM to install a proper system, even if it would be a one-time expense that would work out better for everyone in the long run. Monopolies are by their very nature much more interested in short-term gain than long-term planning, which is why they're monopolies in the first place. Just ask TR.
Economic damage? Tell that to all the motels, restaurants, hardware stores, tree trimmers, etc. It's rarely as clear cut as you indicate. Some get hurt and others prosper. The other thing is that OG&E is NOT making a dime if the meters aren't turning. They want the power to stay on as badly as us. I'm not sure I understand the logic of your last statement. It's likely that the trees were not a problem when the lines were built. They grow up there. In any case, I'm not advocating NO underground - just a bit of common sense and the application of some sound engineering economics.
And by the way, the lines in my yard are already buried because I don't want them hanging through my backyard. Many people in the center of town are already for OGE to do what we did decades ago.
Bill, don't try to tell me that the cost of burying the lines is any more extraordinary than the cost we are paying right this minute! The economic damage to the state is year alone would have buried the lines in most of urban OKC. And OGE should quit blaming the trees - the problem is the lines are in the trees, not the other way around!
It's all a matter of money. Overhead has its advantages and so does underground. Underground is much more expensive to install, maintain, and troubleshoot. Every house with an overhead service would have to be re-wired for an underground meter base. Underground does prevent ice storm and other severe weather damage. It looks better, but there are boxes on the ground that would require a bigger foot print than a pole.
Now, that said, it's the TREES that are failing under the ice load - not the pole lines. If folks would let us trim the trees back where they need to be, we'd be a lot better off.
Personally, I think the best, most economical solution is a combination of several distribution types.
I respectfully suggest that Commissioner Cloud is in a "reactionary" mode at the moment. This issue is long debated and the price tag for a wholsale overhead to underground conversion is extraordinary.
Margaret.. Your comment about having a gas heater tickled me. I spent about an hour explaining to my mother in law why her heater was not working even though it was gas. She didn't comprehend that she has to have electricity to make the fan blow the hot air. She finally got it and realized that she was stuck until OEC got her electricity back on.
My only purpose in "rubbing it in" is to stress to people the utility and benefits of having power lines buried underground. That is also know as "making an argument." By "rubbing it in" I'm in essence urging folks to pick up their phones and put pressure on their power companies to do the right thing, and bury the lines. And if those companies won't do it without a little governmental prodding, then I urge people to contact both the corporation commission and their state legislators and express their views to them. That is how democracy works.
Gee, Margaret, nice to know that clear out there in Holdenville you know better than I do what the storm was like in Edmond. I only live here, after all. In point of fact, the ice storm was every bit as bad here as the rest of the state. One of my next door neighbors huge, landscaped trees split in half. I live in an area with a lot of trees, and a good many of them have left branches all over the ground. But, guess what? Since there aren't any power lines for them to land on--they're underground--we kept power in our neighborhood. Part of Edmond with lines above ground did lose power for a time. I know I only live here and all, but, folks, trust me: I still think I know more about what's going around here than some savant out in Holdenville.
Make sure your house has a gas heater. Almost every home in the older areas have gas lines available. Jason, very few people in Edmond lost power whether their lines were buried or not. The storm was not as bad in Edmond.
Not trying to rub it in - unlike Jason in Edmond, but like Jason in Edmond, my subdivision in SW OKC hasn't had as much as a flicker in our power, and yessir, our power lines are underground. I feel really bad for the folks who are suffering - the elderly, the poor, and those with medical problems whose lives depend on electricity - these people can't "tough it out" every few years or go out and spend several hundred dollars on generators and hook them up themselves. Very sad our society won't fully take care of this basic necessity. This isn't the 1800s! People don't have wood-burning stoves to cook over and keep warm with anymore! The power companies and home builders have made sure we are dependent on electricity to survive. Well by golly, it ought to be there come hail, high water, or ice storm!
Roberta, here in my part of Edmond none of us lost power - and all our power lines are buried. OG&E COULD bury their customer's lines if they wanted to, they just don't want to. If I were a customer of theirs I think I'd be asking them why. I think you'll find the answer will basically boil down to short-term $$$$$ in their stockholder's pockets as opposed to what's good long-term for their customers.
I can not believe that I was told by a csr for OGE that it will be 7-10 days for some OGE customers to get electric back on.
I say that OGE needs to look at what they have paid so far for this storm to get our electric back on compared to what it would cost to have them bury the lines underground. It might cost them alot to bury them but at least it will be more cost effective in the end. I know that on new homes there lines are underground and it should be like that all around OKC.I say bury them underground.
I can not believe that I was told by a csr for OGE that it will be 7-10 days for some OGE customers to get electric back on.
I say that OGE needs to look at what they have paid so far for this storm to get our electric back on compared to what it would cost to have them bury the lines underground. It might cost them alot to bury them but at least it will be more cost effective in the end. I know that on new homes there lines are ounderground and it should be like that all around OKC.I say bury them underground.
I live in a part of Edmond where all the power lines are underground: I did not suffer so much as single second of outage during this entire ice storm. I think that answers the question of whether we should bury the power lines or not; all you morons who want to keep them hanging up on poles where they are not only unsightly but also fall at the first hint of ice or a breeze above fifty mile per hour are welcome to your days without power. I'll keep my buried power lines, and me and my neighbors will enjoy having the lights on while you power pole enthusiasts shiver in the dark.
scott tthth; you have no idea of who I am or whom I blame, lets not start picking on each other, all I'm saying is, we pay our share of good money to OG&E to be having this sort of problem every other 3 to 5 years. It don't matter where I used to live, I'm here now.
so let me get this straight- once every 5 years the lights go out and we have the ability to get it back up and running in give or take 3 days time, sometimes sooner. Most people have been complimentary of how fast OG&E has responded to fixing it. But now we want to invest millions into burying them so we don't have this "inconvenience" every 3-5 years? Not worth it, imo. If you have a life or death situation, buy a generator, but if you are mad because you can't watch deal or no deal, you need to just suck it up.
Just leave everything alone like it is, it is fun to have an ice storm and for the power to be knocked out for a while lets people get back to reality and slow there lives down. plus you get some time off work also. So stop knocking it folks enjoy it. I cant wait for the next ice storm to come through hopefully we will have more next year.
So j3lly, you're a landscaper, eh? Any suggestions on a cost-effective way to remove a very large oak tree from my backyard? It's huge and has been around a lot longer than I have. Keep in mind I don't have hundreds (or possibly thousands) to hire a company to do it.
Scott/tthth, while the other utilities may not involve electromagnetic fields, they certainly involve resistance & loss of pressure over distance. They also have to address leakage issues, just as I imagine power companies would for service underground. I have a hard time believing it is SOOO highly complex to put residential power underground. You may be correct about the expense, I have no frame of reference for that, but the technology to bury power is already widely available throughtout the world. Like many other modern problems, ability to do it is not the problem, it's just a question of whether someone will pony up the money for a better system.
Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Dec 12, 2007 1:05 PM
Oklahoma used to be the cheapest. By that I meant below the national average (i.e. gasoline). However, in the last two to three years, Oklahoma has consistently been higher than the national average when it comes to energy resources. I don't know where people are getting their information from. But, when I see gas prices in other states 10 cents lower per gallon than Oklahoma, then I know we're not the cheapest!
It shouldn't be OG&E responsibility to trim trees in someone's backyard. It's the idiot people who planted trees that shouldn't have been planted. Most people are clueless as to how wide and tall a tree will grow into. I'm a landscaper and most people I tried to explain about the height and size, their response is "Why do I care? I won't be living there when it grows to that size." So, if OG&E have to come out and trim back the tree branches, they should pass on the cost to the home owner. Just like if the city has to come out and mow your yard, they'll charge you 200-300 dollars.
I don't "want" to pay higher gas prices either but I do. After a time you will become accustom to the higher prices and in time the average wage will go up as cost of living goes up. The fact is that Oklahoma has the cheapest power and fuel cost in the country. A little raise won't hurt us that much and after it is all said and done we will come out the better. Just like Oklahomans always have.
Herb, the electric system is much more complex than any gas or water system. You are right in the fact that the others are below ground, but they don't have things like electromagnetic fields and resistance losses to deal with. I am not saying that it can't be done. I am saying it will be very expensive, and the comsumers will pay for it. I don't want to pay higher electric prices.
And for those of you who think trimming the trees is enough, well obviously you were wrong. No matter how much you trim the trees it will not keep outages like this from happening. There is no telling how far a tree will sway and in what direction it will bend until there is an inch of ice weighing it down. OG&E, PSO and all of the coops pay for the trimming services. So, therefor you pay the bill on it as they pass those prices on to you.
Scott, do you have your water and gas lines above ground? If water and gas services can justify the cost issues, I am sure the electric companies can do the same.
In a state that experience, wind damage, tornado damage, Ice storms, snow storm, electrical storms, fires and floods, its irresponsible for us not to put the power lines under ground. While the initial cost may and probably will be expensive, think of all the lost production time the buisnesses in the state are experiencing. A move to put these line under ground will benefit the state and more than make up for the cost. It will help to attract new buisness to the state, be safer, keep people from the discomfort and cost of going sometimes days without power in sub freezing temperatures, it will also help beautify the city in which we live. How would it not be a win win situation for us. I would for one support a state tax and or higher utility prices for such benefits.
Elvia, I think that you are one of those people who would blame their own foot if they tripped. You need to wake up and see that everything is not soo bad. Move to California, and then come back and tell me that power is expensive in Oklahoma.
FYI, YES. I have lived in LA, TX, UT, KS, IL, and now OK. And NO they are not 4 times of what you pay here. I'm sad to say that, OK has the worst power outages.
Burying the power lines would not only reduce this type of situation in the future, it would also do wonders to beautify the community. No more overhead power lines to ugly up the sky.
I read a news story where a house fire started when the electric lines went down. Burying the lines in residential areas makes sense just to decrease these hazards, and more trees are in residential areas to take the lines down in ice and wind. It might be too expensive to bury lines in other areas.
Elvia, How many states have you lived in? Have you ever lived in California, Texas or anywhere on the east coast. Well I have and we are lucky to have the cheap electric that we have in Oklahoma. My bill in some of those places was 4 times what I pay per a month here in Oklahoma.
First, OG&E has trimmed trees all over my neighborhood over the last year and we didn't lose power thankfully. Now, we did lose all of our Cox services so we were without communication/entertainment for that period of time but we were warm and could eat. Second, I don't advocate burying the lines at this juncture because of the added cost that we would see. It would affect our bills year round for the rest of our lives yet the power outages due to weather is negligible. This year we have only spent about 6 hours without electricity. I know that some areas have spent a larger amount of time and weeks in some instances but if you compare a few days or a few hours with an 80% hike in electric bills that seems to pale in comparison. I for one do not wish to spend upwards of $400 a month for my electric services in the summer.
I just want to say how extremely grateful I am for the men and women of OG&E who are working round the clock to restore power. I am sure some of them are without power also but they are working in extremely cold weather to get us all back up and running. You guys are doing a great job! Thank you!!!
The lowest electric rates in Oklahoma? Don't make me laugh. Even in Utah are cheaper than here. Oklahoma has had the highest from everywhere that I have ever lived. And the worst with outages.
This wouldn't have been an issue if OG&E had started trimming back limbs from power lines months ago. OG&E dropped the ball on this one, and I'm not the only one who thinks so.
As a Power Engineer let me shed some knowledge about why lines are above ground and not buried. Fist off it is 3 times more expensive to put a line underground. If the existing lines were put underground, the cost of everyone's electrice bill would go up. Oklahoma has some of the lowest electric rates in the Unites States. Second, there are outages with underground also. When the temperatures are up and the load is high, faults can and will happen on underground cable. When there is an outage on a undergound cable, the time to repair is much longer. Yes underground is less prone to storms, but ther will still be outages on it. Long outages. Overhead lines are our best bet because of the low cost and they are more easily fixed. All the public needs to do is let the electric utility trim the trees and the outages will be much less. Just get the trees away from the lines.
I heard that the cost is close to one million dollars per mile to bury the lines. That's a lot of money, folks. Our bills are going up because fuel is going up - ie natural gas (since they cant use coal anymore thanks to our elected officials and Chesapeake oil co).
Gary has nailed it - we SHOULD have started burrying powerlines 80 years ago, but it is more expensive. Burrying the lines is obviously a good idea, but be prepared for huge increases in your electric bill, on the order of 50 - 80 percent!
I have to laugh at the ignorance of some - you'd think that OG&E was some robber-barron company out to line it's pockets with unneeded fees. Electricity costs money, folks. And the Okla Corp Commisson exists to assure that the power companies only make a guaranteed profit margin (like 6 or 7 percent).
My husband and I were discussing this exact thing yesterday! You would figure with as many storms, high winds, ice storms and such, that they would have started burying lines a long time ago! Especially with all the charges on our electric bill.
we were blessed, that we haven't lost power, but I think about people, like the elderly, disabled, or with small children, and it breaks my heart that they are going with out power, mainly because the lines are above ground!
A smart society would've buried the power lines long ago. But our society chooses "cost effectiveness" over safety and the consequence is that people suffer. We're lucky it's not 2 degrees outside with people freezing to death in their homes.
First of all, I'd like to thank OG&E to get my electricity turned back on after one night of no electricity! With that being said, there should be something done about this outages crap that happened every year we have an ice, snow, strong wind,,,,blah, blah, blah. We don't live in a third world country where this should be a common occurences/acceptance! Every time I look at my monthly statement, it gets higher and higher. More fees. More Taxes. More this and that. Why? OG&E has asked for more money from our government over the past few years, yet, they've failed to deliver quality service! I'm shocked that Bricktown hasn't gone down.
This is also an argument for localized power generation capacity. Everybody's out buying generators and that is a start. But whole neighborhoods could be ran from units similar to GE Energy rental. The whole system could be ran off of natural gas. You can install a natural gas or propane generator and automatic transfer switch large enough to run the full needs of an average home for about $5000. When figured into the price of a new $150,000 home, it is not that much extra. But it would be more cost effective for localized generation capacity with underground lines in all neighborhoods. Delivery of power to neighborhoods could be eventually moved underground. To put the high tension lines underground would be an engineering feat. They would have to be placed into tunnels.
Fire up the trenchers and get to burying the power lines! If these storms of the century continue to happen every 5 years, Oklahoma will be money far ahead to put the lines underground.
I hope they can come up with something feasible in regards to burying the power lines. It may be costly at first, but it would be a huge investment for the communities in the future. We may not have another devastating ice storm for another 5 years, but we would know it wouldn't cripple the area like it has these past few days. And this would help with year round. Srong thunderstorms and tornados bring down power lines too. Here's hoping something comes of this.
Although I do not share how others view our current situation. I am frankly disappointed to learn that the Tulsa nursing home were without a generator overnight. Yesterday they had cold cereal for breakfast and sack lunches for lunch. How could this happen is beyond me?? Before my disability I used to tough it out when we had an electrical outage, now that I am disabled I see things from a different persective. If OG&E are doing what they can to look into ways to implement, to develope, and to improve living conditions for all involved; I say God Bless them.
70
I do not think the OG&E distribution system is not poorly designed. I also do not think that regulated utilities are interested in short term gain. They are here to get us the power as economically and as reliably as possible - and the corporation commission is there to make sure they do.
Now, that said, it's the TREES that are failing under the ice load - not the pole lines. If folks would let us trim the trees back where they need to be, we'd be a lot better off.
Personally, I think the best, most economical solution is a combination of several distribution types.
I respectfully suggest that Commissioner Cloud is in a "reactionary" mode at the moment. This issue is long debated and the price tag for a wholsale overhead to underground conversion is extraordinary.
I say that OGE needs to look at what they have paid so far for this storm to get our electric back on compared to what it would cost to have them bury the lines underground. It might cost them alot to bury them but at least it will be more cost effective in the end. I know that on new homes there lines are underground and it should be like that all around OKC.I say bury them underground.
I say that OGE needs to look at what they have paid so far for this storm to get our electric back on compared to what it would cost to have them bury the lines underground. It might cost them alot to bury them but at least it will be more cost effective in the end. I know that on new homes there lines are ounderground and it should be like that all around OKC.I say bury them underground.
I have to laugh at the ignorance of some - you'd think that OG&E was some robber-barron company out to line it's pockets with unneeded fees. Electricity costs money, folks. And the Okla Corp Commisson exists to assure that the power companies only make a guaranteed profit margin (like 6 or 7 percent).
we were blessed, that we haven't lost power, but I think about people, like the elderly, disabled, or with small children, and it breaks my heart that they are going with out power, mainly because the lines are above ground!