Tribes could lose big with rule changes
Tribes could lose big with rule changes

Comments Comment on this article43

By Tony Thornton
Published: February 11, 2008

Oklahoma's casino-owning tribes would lose millions of dollars annually — along with an important bargaining chip — if proposed federal restrictions take effect, a new study indicates.

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However, the state's education system stands to reap a windfall from the proposal.

The rules will be debated during a congressional field hearing in Oklahoma, perhaps later this month.

In essence, the National Indian Gaming Commission wants to create a greater distinction between Class II games based on bingo and Class III, or Las Vegas-style slot machines.

Technology has blurred the difference between the types.

The distinction is important because states can only collect a portion of tribes' profits from Class III games.

Indian gaming experts have said the vast majority of existing Class II machines would become illegal in 2013 if the new regulations, as proposed, take effect.

Tribes have almost universally denounced the plan as an unfair imposition on their sovereignty.

Two Oklahoma congressmen seem to agree, according to their recent letters to the commission.

"I remain deeply concerned that there has not been sufficient consideration of the economic impacts of these proposed regulations,” U.S. Rep. Dan Boren, D-Muskogee, wrote in a Dec. 20 letter.

Boren said Indian gaming has an economic impact "of hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars” in Oklahoma.

He urged the commission to shelve its plan "until such time as you have adequately consulted with all affected tribes.”

Boren joined U.S. Rep. Tom Cole, R-Moore, in a second letter asking that the comment period be extended until June.

However, a letter signed by 10 other congressmen urges "prompt adoption” of the proposed rules.

Both Boren and Cole are on the House Natural Resources Committee, which oversees Indian gaming.

That committee will discuss the matter during a hearing tentatively scheduled in Miami, OK. Boren requested the hearing, his spokesman, Cole Perryman, said.

Oklahoma corners Class II market
Oklahoma tribes own more than half of the 160 Class II gaming locations in the U.S., economist Alan Meister reported in a study prepared for the Indian gaming commission.

The 30,044 Class II machines in Oklahoma at the end of 2006 represented 59 percent of all such machines in the country.

In 2004, Oklahoma voters approved compacts allowing tribes to offer modified Class III slot machines. In return, tribes must pay the state 4 percent to 6 percent of the revenue.

That money goes to fund teacher pay raises and other education programs. Tribes paid the state $54.5 million from Class III machine revenue in 2007, according to the Office of State Finance.

Most state tribal casinos have incorporated Class III games, and a few have moved solely to compacted machines. However, Class II machines still comprise a large majority of the games available in Oklahoma, Meister reported.

Regs could expedite shift
Meister said the proposed Class II restrictions would force tribes to use only compacted machines by 2013.

If that happens, Oklahoma tribes would have to pay the state an estimated $122.3 million a year in revenue-sharing costs, Meister reported.

That's in addition to what tribes pay for running card games. Oklahoma tribes paid the state nearly $13.6 million last year in card game fees.

Meister said tribes also would lose the leverage the existing Class II machines provide when negotiating revenue-sharing compacts with states for Class III gaming.

Oklahoma's current tribal gaming compacts expire in 2020.

The proposed Class II regulations will make games slower and less attractive to many gamblers, Meister reported. That could force some marginal casinos to close unless they can offer a Class III alternative, he said.

Nationwide, Meister's study predicts a 42-percent decrease in Class II revenue, or $1.2 billion less in gaming revenue and $127 million in non-gaming revenue.

This is the second set of regulations proposed by federal regulators. Their first proposal, released in May 2006, met such opposition that the agency pulled it in February 2007 and spent eight months revising the plan.

The new proposals are considered less restrictive than the first set.


 


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After reading through all the comments made, I think there are many strong points for both sides. I do agree that Native Americans need to be educated, that is the ONLY true way we will survive in this world. I am Native American woman everyday of the week, and I don't have to link myself to my grandparents to prove that. I graduated college with plans to attend Law School in the near future and have an eight to five job right now which I enjoy. There were some comments made about us being "repaid," okay I can agree with you to some extent, BUT I will have to argue that as of right now, the government owes the Tribes of the United States atleast 1 billion dollars which many are fighting for, from back checks they never got distributed unto the tribes. Does that sound like repayment? Anyways, that's all I wanted to say.
maygan, ponca city - Feb 14, 2008 at 1:10 pm
you forgot to mention that the Class II vendors get 20 to 30% of Class II profits. You have the nerve to report that the state get 6% for schools.
Creek, Oklahoma City - Feb 14, 2008 at 10:16 am
So Grant, you propose to pass a law that every vehicle entering or driving on Oklahoma roads be tagged in Oklahoma and that tourists pay income taxes to our state because they happen to drive through Oklahoma on their way through the state?
This is exactly the case with Native American's if they live on Indian land and use their tribe's license.
I think it might just work but then again, perhaps even more would avoid the greed of Oklahomans.
Phil, Yukon - Feb 12, 2008 at 9:03 pm
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John and Pete, I a native american and I can guarantee I paid more in state and federal taxes than probably the both of you combined, so i've paid for the roads I drive to work on every day.

And everyday, when my Movado strikes 4:00, I get into my Mercedes and drive home from the casino to my house in the suburbs and squeeze my girlfriends big fake boobs that you helped pay for. LOL (Sorry, I watched Mr. Deeds last nite and have been dying to use that line, but its true)
Johnny, Oklahoma City - Feb 11, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Grant, I apologize if I insinuated your arguments were racially motivated by my previous post. My point is there isn't varying degrees of sovereignty and the situation between the tribes and state or federal governments isn't as unique as you think. How about Puerto Rico? You must admit that they have an even sweeter deal with the US than the tribes. Also, IGRA specifically permits gaming on Indian lands if certain conditions are met, so I don't how you can continue to say its a loophole, other than the fact that it has been much more successful for the tribes than its authors had envisioned. In an earlier post, you declared the "things the "white man" did to set all this up are becoming ancient history". These "things" you refer to are treaties between the US and the tribes and they did not come with an expiration date, just like the Constitution, which is more "ancient" than most of the treaties.
Johnny, Oklahoma City - Feb 11, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Amen John..If they are going to drive on the soverign white mans highway they need to pay for white mans tags etc. Otherwise stay on the reservations
pete, holdenville - Feb 11, 2008 at 8:34 pm
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C, it's a loophole. It's a weird arrangement. Just because the gov't passed it, doesn't mean it's any less weird. Government does lots of weird things. You know exactly what I mean when I refer to sovereignty. Being relocated, and subject to the laws of the USA (because, thats where you are) but getting to have your own government to do things too, name another "sovereign" nation that lives under those conditions. What I'm saying has nothing to do with white, black, blue or green people, but thanks for adding that. Israel is fishy, sure, in my opinion. And you may be right, that situation may be "repayment" in the same way. Does that make it fishier? Does that make them equal? Are you really going to try to argue a Israel verses the Shawnees in Pott. County angle? My (obviously goofy) reference to Germany and France was talking about what is or isn't true sovereignty. I didn't know I was laying out any theories, disputable or otherwise. I wasn't trying to. Just illustrating a point.
Grant, Edmond - Feb 11, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Come on Grant, we only have to go back 70 years to come up with examples that dispell your theories. According to your logic, the Germans are conquered people, so why is their sovereignty any more valid than native americans? How about the Jewish people? Haven't they been repaid for their hardship by the establishment of Israel, complete with a full military arsenal? Or do those examples not count because they involves white people? Also, IGRA (google it if you don't know what it is) is not a loophole in which to run casinos, but a federal law pass by your elected leaders during your lifetime.
Johnny, Oklahoma City - Feb 11, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Indianz. You're gonna have to do better than that. Native Americans may claim some level of "sovereignty" but it isn't true sovereignty. France is sovereign. Germany is sovereign. Pakistan is sovereign. France could never force all of the Germans to walk to Luxembourg and settle there. Native American sovereignty is something else. It's like being in a glorified club or something... and I'm not trying to be insulting. It's blood, it's heritage, it's history, and it's much deeper and stronger than anything in my ancestory... at least as far as I know. The point is, Indians are repaid (which is weird... name another people group that has been repaid for hardship), and Indians are repaid with... ta da!... the loopholes in which to run casinos, and sell tobacco under different tax laws, and other such nonsense. These are not the elements of a legacy for a people. They are sad. And the things that the "white man" did to set all this up are becoming ancient history. How much longer should this status quo go on?
Grant, Edmond - Feb 11, 2008 at 7:05 pm
I think we can all agree that the majority of customers in Oklahoma Indian casinos are non-natives. If the non-natives are so concerned about the tribes paying their fair share, then simply boycott the Class II games when you go to the casino and play Class III games instead. When Class II games stop getting played, they will be replaced with Class III games. It's simple supply and demand people. I don't know how we can hold tribes responsible for their customer's gambling preferences. The popularity of Class II games is unique to Oklahoma and was not anticipated by neither Gov. Henry, nor the tribes when the compacts were negotiated. The fact is a typical Class II game has greater payout percentage than any Class III game you'll find on the Las Vegas strip and the non-natives want to take advantage of this, only to turn around and whine about the tribes not paying their "fair share".
Johnny, Oklahoma City - Feb 11, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Outlaw and Gnat (I know how to spell grant) are both very mis-informed children. They try to speak as they know something, but only idiotic remarks come out. The Native Americans ARE Sovereign Nations, and have entered into Gov't-to-Gov't relations w/ the U.S. since 1700's and 1800's. If you do any research on Treaties w/ Native Americans by the U.S. Gov't, you will see what they are bound by. Learn all the FACTS before you speak. Knowledge is Power, not ignorance as you two have been showing.
Indianz, Winnebago - Feb 11, 2008 at 6:40 pm
This will be my final comment for the day as these comments are getting way off the subject of the original article. I do own my home, I do pay federal, state and property taxes as well as sales tax, etc. and always have. Not EVERY Native American qualifies for assistance just as not EVERY person of any other race qualifies for different types of assistance. We can sit and write and knock each others ideas and thoughts for the rest of our lives and it will only continue to cause the same reactions as is witnessed in some of the comments posted here today. May God bless you all, no matter what race you are.
Becky, Park Hill - Feb 11, 2008 at 5:22 pm
I'm going to have to agree with Grant on this one Betty, your lack of specifics and childish name calling only make you look like a fool. Your welcome to show off your education by writing and expressing yourself any time you feel like it, I would relish the opportunity to take the air out of the tires of your turnip truck. Until then I can only guess at the number of teeth in your mouth, I'm putting the over/under at 10.
Outlaw, Edmond - Feb 11, 2008 at 4:34 pm
It's not a matter of how much a tribe spends on a communtiy. They need to pay more in revenue-sharing cost because if there some way of the public actually knowing the exact figures that those casinos take in everyday of the week, it would probably blow your mind! The Indian casino are no better than any other casino and they just need to realize that and pay what is expected of them. They make billions of dollars yearly and they do not have that much pay-outs from there casinos. I have seen individuals put as much as $500.00 to a $1,000.00 dollars in one machine and not get a cent back out of it. So they are ripping Oklahomans off. Bottom line they are making money and that is ok but to just keep ripping people of isn't right either. They want to advertise that they give so much away but no one ever see's it or hears of it from some of these casinos. You can go in one and sit for hours and never hear a machine go off. I am not saying it's their faults for us spendingn our money that is not what I am saying, all I am saying is they need to step up to the plate and pay their part. Just because their Indians doesn't means they shouldn't pay. I wish the Indians would stop whinning about every little thing.
glenda, oklahoma city - Feb 11, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Wow, Betty, you still haven't said anything about the issue. Only me. My invitation to join in the actual conversation is still available, unless you continue to not know what to say.
Grant, Edmond - Feb 11, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Becky, I agree (and live by) with your logic.

As to taxes the tribes pay, they're voluntary. In regard to property taxes, take a look at what is paid "voluntarily" as opposed to what the ad valoreum would bring from a non-tribal entity. I'm not anti-tribe. But let's not be naive to the business advantages the tribes have been afforded.
John, Ada - Feb 11, 2008 at 4:07 pm
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Grant, I can hear you continuing to gnash those teeth of yours all the way from DC!
Betty, Gaithersburg - Feb 11, 2008 at 3:58 pm
John, you live within the boundaries of the Seminole Nation. Have you ever checked into what the tribe does for the surrounding community financially? I live within the Cherokee Nation (am not Cherokee) and I know they spend several million dollars on the very things you listed in your comment as does the Choctaw Nation and several other tribes. This brings another point to mind. If people don't approve of the casinos and smokeshops, QUIT GOING TO THEM hoping to make/save a buck or two off of the Native Americans!!! Simple logic in my opinion.
Becky, Park Hill - Feb 11, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Tribes should have their sovereignty.

However, they should have to provide their own transportation, roads, bridges, schools, etc.

If not, they should be taxed/tolled for the state and federal government providing for them.
John, Ada - Feb 11, 2008 at 3:28 pm
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Thanks, Betty. We all appreciate your participation. So eloquent and detailed, not to mention real substance. You definitely have a future in journalism, politics or law. Actually, I may not be kidding about the politics part.
Grant, Edmond - Feb 11, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Grant, in reference to your response, I rest my case.
Betty, Gaithersburg - Feb 11, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Betty. I see how you work. If I don't agree with you, I MUST be uneducated, racist and a poor communicator. Instead of saying nothing of value, why don't you join in the conversation. Tell me, as briefly as possible, where you think I'm off base, and I'll try to clarify my point for you. Otherwise, your ranting reflects poorly on you, not me.
Grant, Edmond - Feb 11, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Ive never heard idiots quite like Grant and Outlaw. My gosh, get a life and go to school so that you will learn how to write and express yourselves instead of sounding like a bunch of Oklahoma rednecks that just fell off the back of a turnip truck!!
Betty, Gaithersburg - Feb 11, 2008 at 2:39 pm
I have to give proper credit to the wording of my post. It came from a Daily Meditation site, www.whitebison.org, but expressed my thoughts in words I couldn't put together as well. Thought some of you might be interested in the site. Don't get me wrong. I am a 53 year old Native American, and have lived among many of the tribes of the United States and have seen the suffering and still see the suffering but we have to grasp every bit of knowledge to overcome all discretion. There will always be hard feelings irregardless but we must move forward in order to survive. We need to think about things with clear, open minds then decide which is the best path to take. So far as the monies the states receive from the casinos and smokeshops, believe me it is much more than people realize. It does go for the benefit of all people, not only the Native Americans.
Becky, Park Hill - Feb 11, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Good post Becky, now if we could get the nocona's of the world on board the world would be a better place. I never knew that casino's were such a big part of american indian heritage, reading some of the post on here you'd think they were as big a part as horses, bows and arrows, and headdresses. I must have missed that wing of the museaum at Anadarko, I bet the gaming machines were right next to the sweat lodge, LOL.
Outlaw, Edmond - Feb 11, 2008 at 1:16 pm

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