Clergy seeking voice in immigration talks
Clergy seeking voice in state immigration talks

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By Michael McNutt
Published: February 12, 2008

Religious leaders should be included in the mix with politicians and business officials in discussions involving the state's immigration law, a Lutheran bishop said Monday to members of the Oklahoma Conference of Churches.

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"The jury's still out” on the state's immigration law, House Bill 1804, that took effect Nov. 1, said the Rev. Floyd Schoenhals, bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America's Arkansas-Oklahoma Synod.

"The voices of fear are dominant,” said Schoenhals, who lives in Tulsa. "It has caused a lot of fear among those immigrants who are among us and many of them have left because it's raised the issue of fear.”

Several business groups have filed a lawsuit against Oklahoma's immigration enforcement law. The suit claims the Oklahoma law undermines federal immigration law and imposes unreasonable burdens on state businesses.

Legislation has been filed to repeal HB 1804, but legislative leaders have said chances of those succeeding are slim.

"More people need to be brought to the table in terms of discussing the issue and trying to take a look back at what was done in November and what ought to be changed about that and what ought to be done in the future,” Schoenhals said. "Faith leaders, business leaders, more people need to be invited into the conversation to find a way to hear all the voices on the matter.”

Schoenhals said an increasing number of immigrants are going to Arkansas because of that state's poultry industry.

Speaking to more than 100 during the Oklahoma Conference of Churches annual legislative day at the state Capitol, Schoehnals said the same approach should be used with immigration that was used with prohibition.

Prohibition laws, he said, were aimed to regulate alcohol in a workable way and the state should use the "same sensible approach” to deal with immigration instead of passing laws that can cause harm.

Death penalty discussed
Also during the session, Lydia Polley urged members to support Senate Bill 2193.

The bill, by Sen. Connie Johnson, D-Oklahoma City, would create a task force to study the state's death penalty procedures to see if it complies with U.S. constitutional standards and if it disproportionately affects minorities. The measure calls for a moratorium on the death penalty during the study.

Similar studies have died in committees. Polley urged lawmakers to let the bill advance out of committee "so it can be on the floor to be debated.”

Church Women United in Oklahoma presented its human rights award to Johnson and to Nathaniel Batchelder, director of the Oklahoma City Peace House.


 


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Redneck? No, try again Nocona. Racist? You don't even know any of us. I'm not racist in the least bit. My significant other is Native American, many of my friends are from various other cultures, even some from other countries. This is what I am so furious about. There are those that do the RIGHT thing and come here LEGALLY, and then there are others who come here ILEGALLY and WE simply do not want them here. If Canada were doing the same, I would not hesitate to react in the same manner. Oh, and another thing. If they come to this country (anyone for that matter) SPEAK ENGLISH IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A CUSTOMER FACING JOB!!! It's ridiculous! If I were going to live in Germany, I'd learn German. I wouldn't go over there and expect everyone to cater to my every need and get me an interpreter just because I didn't care enough not to learn their language. So no, I'm not racist and I doubt the majority of my other Oklahomans are either!
Elizabeth, Norman - Feb 13, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Tom, you got it !! This lady or whatever is a nut job & accuses people of the strangest things, although there are a couple of people on here that do steal your identity from time to time . I think for the most part it's someone with no life. As for this paper, it in my opinion has just hit rock bottom & this is the only story that can draw a crowd.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Feb 12, 2008 at 8:03 pm
what a bunch of crybaby rednck, racist. 2050 get used to it.
nocona, santa fe - Feb 12, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Ron, you said it! You are soooo correct! Which is kind of funny, because if the bible is correct, "God" gave us free will, the ability to choose. Yet some of his extremist followers choose to try to constrict what society can and can't do.
Elizabeth, Norman - Feb 12, 2008 at 6:03 pm
sue, seminole - Feb 12, 2008 3:48 PM post: As of 4:46 pm, 90 % would equal 10.8 people (11or 10 because there can not be a .8 of a person). As of 4:46 pm there were 12 posters. So, you and I posted and we know that we are not duplicating by different names. Therefore , what you are saying is that one other person has made all the posts to 4:46 PM. However, I am sure of my post, but I am not sure of yours. How do I know that you are not one person making all the posts except my one as of 4:46 PM? The point is, could it be that maybe you ….?
citizen, Edmond - Feb 12, 2008 at 5:16 pm
I'm always worried when a minister starts telling folks what they really meant about anything. "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."-Thomas Jefferson 1814
Ron, Oklahoma City - Feb 12, 2008 at 4:46 pm
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Ed Kelley is a shill for the Chamber.All that sicko apologist for illegal aliens cares about is cheap labor. Boycott the Oklahoman.the Oklahoman doesn't speak for the mainstream of Oklahomans.
charles, tulsa - Feb 12, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Also, these surveys are a joke. I do know that the same person can vote several, several times. So give this a rest too.
sue, seminole - Feb 12, 2008 at 3:54 pm
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The problem with all of this is that 90% of the people posting on this are the same person and this person loves to get a stir out of the one other person that is a real person. Give this a rest and go onto something else, 1804 is a law so who are you arguing with?
sue, seminole - Feb 12, 2008 at 3:48 pm
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Ed Kelley and all other pro-illegal slave traders don't ever concern themselves with the truth... Fact is, any politician that comes out pro-illegal is committing polical suicide... That says it all..
Rufus, spencer - Feb 12, 2008 at 2:39 pm
What's wrong with 'fear'? We live in fear everyday. We fear for our lives if we speed in our cars; we fear of imprisonment or fines if we break the law; we fear of failing a test if we don't study; we fear of losing our homes if we don't make our mortgage payments; we fear of being burned if we stick our hand in the fire. These PC bumpkins spew their flowery bs and think people pay attention to them. That's why many of our young people don't know how to behave - because they fear no consequence for misbehavior. We're too busy about worrying about self-esteem rather than responsible behavior and humbleness. I want these illegals to fear the law; they broke the law by coming here and should fear the consequences. If a person of Hispanic origin is here legally, he or she have nothing to fear from this law.
Gary, Oklahoma City - Feb 12, 2008 at 2:08 pm
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Also, why did the amnesty bill get shot down a year ago? Well, people of all walks of life, not just Oklahoma - people of all political parties and ideologies - were outraged and lit up their representatives. This is why we have states from Missouri, Kansas, Minnesota, Michigan, Arizona, Colorado, Nebraska, Idaho, Oregon, and Iowa stepping up with legislation to combat the problem of illegal immigration. Like I said, simply doing some 'qualified' research would show what the majority wants.
J.T.(I), Norman - Feb 12, 2008 at 2:01 pm
This gets more hilarious each day. Did anyone look at the Ed Kelley spew on 'Majority Rules'? What is he talking about? He says the majority of Oklahomans don't want 1804 and had it thrust upon them without any support. I guess when someone's a journalism major, they don't have to do research or check sources for accuracy. All of his claims are totally ridiculous. As for his 'Tulsa World Survey' anyone knows who has conducted research that surveys can be manipulated to serve the purpose of the research. Examples, the people that you ask, the questions you ask, or simply misrepresenting data. If that 'survey' were true, then why was the other Tulsa World survey of the English language bill in legislation at 88% approval. I'm willing to bet the percentage is much higher than that. It had both political parties in support of the bill with Dems at 84% and Reps at 93%. So, it's hard to see how the 'Agendahoman' keeps coming up with it's 'DATA' in support of its overall agenda. Let's face it, this bias rag doesn't care what the majority of Oklahomans think or want. It wants to produce bias filth and present one-sided stories because they want to shape the political landscape.
J.T.(I), Norman - Feb 12, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Schoenhals is a stooge and rank apologist for the illegal alien invasion. He is marinating in his politically correct garbage.This"minister" specializes in the sour condescending self-righteousness of some of the clergy.HB 1804 is the law and it is very popular.
charles, tulsa - Feb 12, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Tom, BJ, I agree with you both 100%!
Elizabeth, Norman - Feb 12, 2008 at 11:01 am
More people need to be brought to the table? Are you kidding me?! Maybe I'm to naïve to understand, seeing as I'm only 23, but what happened to separation of church and state? People talk about crooked politics, but take a moment to think about it for a moment. The more "they" have a say in legal matters, the more the nation is going to go the route of extremist conservatism. They'll be banning rated R movies, abortions (not that I would get one), and controlling every other aspect of our lives. I'll admit, it's a little far fetched, but there are so many reasons why religion and government do not need to mix. Not only that, but are these same "organizations" going be prosecuted when they continue to harbor illegal immigrants? They should, but I don't see that happening.
Elizabeth, Norman - Feb 12, 2008 at 10:59 am
You remember it was just a few days ago when the OKC Chanber of Commerce, the Tulsa Chamber of Commerce, the Oklahoma (state) Chamber of Commerce and the National Chamber of Commerce banded together to file suit against HB1804(now Oklahoma Law) to have the meat of the law set aside. It (1804) interfers with their promotion of Oklahoma as a state with a large and cheap labor pool. It appears to me that they don't really care about anything but their members' desires to enrich themselves at the cost of law and order and the common person's wage status. Do they not realize that this cheap (read illegal) labor pool affects all of us? Low wages at the bottom are a factor of all wages above them. Even if the illegals are only doing work that no others will do (not true), their willingness to worke for less affects us all, and that is not a welcome position. It is really strange that these Chambers want our support for various things including an upgrade to the Ford Center, but want to dump on us about an issue we feel so strongly about. Maybe their lack of support for what we want (1804) will turn into a lack of support for what they want (Ford Center).
doncha, d - Feb 12, 2008 at 10:58 am
“The voices of fear are dominant,” said Schoenhals, who lives in Tulsa. "It has caused a lot of fear among those immigrants who are among us and many of them have left because it's raised the issue of fear.” Well duh! If one is here illegally, then can one expect that the illegal be fearful of being caught and one who aids and abets an illegal also be fearful of being caught?
citizen, Edmond - Feb 12, 2008 at 10:47 am
Great Artical from the Pittsburg Tribune....
Illegals and the courts: Sanity returns..

Tuesday, February 12, 2008
Perhaps the rule of law means something after all when it comes to illegal aliens:
• U.S. District Judge Neil V. Wake rejected arguments on Feb. 7 that an Arizona law banning the hiring of illegal aliens is an unconstitutional usurpation of the federal government's right to regulate immigration.

• Last month in Missouri, U.S. District Judge E. Richard Webber upheld an ordinance that targeted employers of illegal aliens in Valley Park, Mo.

• In December, U.S. District Judge James H. Payne rejected a lawsuit filed against the state of Oklahoma and its law requiring employers to verify new employees' legal status. In a wonderful spate of sanity, Judge Payne said the illegals who brought the challenge didn't have standing -- because they're illegals, of course.

These rulings stand in sharp contrast to a federal judge's logic-defying ruling last summer that rejected Hazleton, Pa.'s, tough anti-illegals ordinance. That decision is on appeal.
University of Houston law professor Michael A. Olivas tells The New York Times that the recent litigation and rulings show the need for Congress to clarify the situation of illegal aliens.

Sorry, but no "clarification" is required. Here's a big hint -- the word "illegal" means what it means. And given that the judicial climate appears to be turning away what's wrong and embracing what's right, illegal aliens should be making some travel plans.

Rufus, spencer - Feb 12, 2008 at 10:07 am
P.S. The only reason you want to be in the mix in the first place is because your Sunday plate is running a little short.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Feb 12, 2008 at 9:54 am
Let's take it a step further and put this to a vote of the people in Oklahoma . Maybe then you will get the message the illegals are not wanted in this state!! Randy Terril is only the mouth piece for what the people want , we are tired of it & expect the powers that be, to listen to us. Churches should stick to what they do best & that is give spiritual guidance. Stay out of politics you do not belong in any conversation or legistration.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Feb 12, 2008 at 9:22 am
Whites to be minority in US by 2050: study Mon Feb 11, 11:50 AM ET



Immigration will drive the population of the United States sharply upward between now and 2050, and will push whites into a minority, projections by the Pew Research Center showed Monday.

"If current trends continue, the population of the United States will rise to 438 million in 2050, from 296 million in 2005," an increase of nearly 50 percent, the study by the Washington-based think-tank said.

More than 80 percent of the increase will be due to immigrants arriving in the country and their US-born children, who will make up nearly one in five Americans by 2050 compared with one in eight in 2005, it said.

Whites, who currently make up around two-thirds of the US population, will become a minority (47 percent) by 2050, the report said.

The Hispanic population, currently the largest minority group, will triple in size and double in percentage terms from 14 percent in 2005 to 29 percent in 2050, the report said.

The Asian population will roughly double in percentage terms, from five percent to nine percent, while the black population will remain static at around 13 percent.

The projections are based on trends over the past 50 years, during which legal and illegal immigration have played an increasing role in US population growth, the report said.

From 1960 to 2005, new immigrants and their US-born descendants accounted for 51 percent of population increase, and for 58 percent from 1980 to 2005, the report said.

But, the report warned, "possible future changes in immigration policy" could impact the projections.

Illegal immigration has become a top issue in the race for the US presidency, especially among Republican candidates, most of whom favor of a crackdown.
Jack, Oklahoma city - Feb 12, 2008 at 8:58 am
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"voices of fear are dominant" Translation-Illegal criminals don't cotton to the fact johnny law is finally going to do his job and kick their behinds back across the border and punish their slave owning masters that broke the law for decades to bring them here to get out of paying benefits, workers comp and unemployment insurance....
Rufus, spencer - Feb 12, 2008 at 7:36 am
We should combine these two sections and title the article "Death Penalty for Illegal Alliens Discussed!"
Ray, Edmond - Feb 12, 2008 at 7:27 am
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