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David Stanley Ford

Does immigration law unfairly affect students?
Does immigration law unfairly affect state students?

By Susan Simpson    Comments Comment on this article52
Published: February 20, 2008

STILLWATEROklahoma's immigration law unfairly punishes some of the state's greatest assets: young people with the ability and desire to gain a college education, a University of Houston law professor said Tuesday.

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The law that went into effect Nov. 1 makes it harder for illegal immigrants to qualify for in-state college tuition and bars them from state scholarships.

Michael Olivas said that is unfair because it targets the children of parents who brought them here illegally. Some teens do not know they are illegal until they are asked for proof of residency when they apply to college.

"You can't simply punish the kids in hopes that their parents will go home,” Olivas said during his Kamm Lecture address at Oklahoma State University. "These children are here simply because their parents brought them here.”

What have colleges done?
The state Regents for Higher Education changed some policies in October to bring them into compliance with the new law.

Undocumented students who have lived in Oklahoma for at least two years and have graduated from high school remain eligible for in-state tuition if they have applied with the federal government to legalize their status or pledge to do so as soon as they are eligible.

But illegal immigrants no longer qualify for state scholarships such as Oklahoma's Promise and the Oklahoma Tuition Assistance Grant, unless they had already applied and were covered under a grandfather clause.

In the 2006-07 school year, 244 undocumented students attended Oklahoma colleges, mostly at Oklahoma City Community College and Tulsa Community College. While they cost the state $112,000 in tuition waivers and state aid, they contributed $238,785 in tuition and fees.

What students said
Olivas said the stricter standards to college access are "mean-spirited,” because giving illegal immigrants in-state tuition does not take away that right for other Oklahomans.

But one international student at the lecture complained he has to pay out-of-state tuition although he's been in the United States legally for several years.

Brenda Morales, OSU's Hispanic student coordinator, said students are unclear about the new rules. Morales said many don't know they can still go to college by paying out-of-state tuition, but that is probably too expensive for most families.

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David Stanley Ford





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We are seeing everyday people under fire for the color of their skin and the inflection of their speech. I wish I could say this was an Okie problem but it's an American problem.
Steve, Oklahoma City - Mar 21, 2008 at 2:34 am
Basically what is happening is that Pro illegal supporters are trying the "confused" game. "oh no! I was born in Oklahoma and do not have illegal parents but I'm Hispanic. I better leave Oklahoma or I will get deported."

Come on Ms. Simpson. Anyone that still cannot understand the law is either trying to cause controversy or is just plain retarded. There is plenty or available information about the law and who it affects. Illegal Aliens have no business being enrolled at OSU and why would any legal student be frantic about the law?
Kent, Glendale - Feb 22, 2008 at 6:41 pm
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LOL Susan Simpson. Waaah Waah. Here we go again with another daily desperation article by the Liberals in the press. It's now becoming funny.
Kent, Glendale - Feb 22, 2008 at 6:35 pm
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I would have to say no, because illegal aliens are not "state" students.. Just because their parent snuck them in does not change that fact.
Rufus, spencer - Feb 22, 2008 at 11:51 am
As a college grad who paid my own way as I went by working. I know it can be hard. But I cant sympathize with children of criminals who do know they are here illegally (how could they not?) who also have a hard time earning a degree. Personally I don't understand why any state charges more for 'out of state' tuition. But for illegals to come here and expect to be treated better than citizens it ridiculous.
Anton, OKC - Feb 21, 2008 at 8:24 am
Right Larry,
it means you can't give in-state tuition to a illegal alien unless you give it to anyone else which includes legal immigrants or someone from other states.
Dave, Blue Rapids - Feb 21, 2008 at 7:41 am
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How can an illegal get in-state tuition? Our brainiacs in the Oklahoma Legislature made it the law a year or two before HB 1804. The author of the bill said he was mislead as to what it would do. Excuse me, you are the author of the bill, doesn't that imply you wrote it? How can you mislead yourself into writing something you didn't mean????
Larry, Oklahoma City - Feb 21, 2008 at 5:09 am
Dave, I think the the fed law you quoted makes it SOUND like its illegal for an illegal to get in-state tuition, but if I am reading it correctly, they can get it as long as citizens and legal immigrants can get it too?
Larry, Oklahoma City - Feb 21, 2008 at 5:05 am
Another story you never here of: AP - More than 1,500 immigrants tramp
across the Tohono O'odham reservation every day, making it one of the
busiest illegal entry points in the country. So far this year, 27,130
people have been arrested in this remote desert. Federal agents have
seized a staggering 179,300 pounds of narcotics since October.

The
sheer volume of criminal activity and law-enforcement response has
made some Indians feel as if they are living in a combat zone.

High-
speed chases are so frequent that residents rely on police scanners to
know when it's safe to go outside. Burglaries are so common that
people leave homes unlocked to save doors and windows. Overhead, Black
Hawk helicopters hunt drug runners while camouflaged agents prowl the
bush.

"Our people fear for their lives," said Vivian Juan-Saunders,
tribal chairwoman.

The reservation, roughly the size of Connecticut,
shares a 75-mile border with Mexico. The most formidable obstacles are
three or four strands of rusty barbed wire.

"The Tohono O'odham
Nation sits in the busiest corridor of illegal immigration in the
nation," said Andy Adame, Border Patrol spokesman. "They are getting
run over. The option is to let it go crazy or bring in the manpower to
get it under control."

The Department of Homeland Security this
month announced a $10 million plan to help secure Arizona's porous
borders, now the main gateway to the United States for illegal
immigrants and smugglers.

The money will pay for hundreds of new
agents, aerial surveillance drones and additional detention space. The
reservation will get an additional 60 Border Patrol officers.

Many
of the 11,000 residents here live in trailers or ramshackle adobe
houses surrounded by the twisted saguaros and fragrant mesquite of the
Sonoran Desert.




As more illegal immigrants cross, they are
increasingly fearful of letting their children play outside. Tribal
elders no longer gather ceremonial plants in the desert. Fences are
going up and people are packing weapons.

Some Indians are forming
armed citizen patrols, occasionally shooting over the heads of
immigrants and smugglers to scare them off their land.
J.T.(I), Norman - Feb 20, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Praise the Lord. Jesus is coming and all you haters are going to burn in the "Lake of Fire and Brimestone.
The Devil has taken over your souls---- PRAY---PRAY--- OH you sinners of evil. Praise be to the Lord. Cast the Devil out of your souls you wicked ones. PRAY---PRAY----PRAY----
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Hurray for FEDERAL Judge Neil Wake!!!
K, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 8:15 pm
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I'll go ahead and post it since the agendahoman doesn't want to: AP - "Judge upholds Arizona law on illegal immigrant hires" - PHOENIX — A federal judge on Thursday upheld an Arizona law that prohibits businesses from knowingly hiring illegal immigrants and yanks the business licenses of those that do. U.S. District Judge Neil Wake's ruling was a defeat to employers who argued the law was an unconstitutional attempt by a state to regulate immigration, traditionally the federal government's responsibility.

J.T.(I), Norman - Feb 20, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Would the one person,please step forward?

Quote:
You know what is so wrong with all this is that 90% of the people posting here are one and the same person. They are only trying to stir up all you other 10%"
Dave, Blue Rapids - Feb 20, 2008 at 7:24 pm
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"but one international student at the lecture complained he has to pay out-of-state tuition although he's been in the United States legally for several years."


How can illegal alien students get in-state tuition? Quote" There is a conflict between Federal and State law regarding the eligibility of undocumented students for in-state tuition rates. Federal law passed in 1996 prohibits illegal aliens from receiving in-state tuition rates at public institutions of higher education. Specifically, Section 505 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (Title 8, Chapter 14, Sec. 1623(a)) states: "an alien who is not lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a State (or a political subdivision) for any postsecondary education benefit unless a citizen or national of the United States is eligible for such a benefit (in no less an amount, duration, and scope) without regard to whether the citizen or national is such a resident."
Dave, Blue Rapids - Feb 20, 2008 at 7:21 pm
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Maybe that's true Sue, I don't know. However, I know everyone is getting fired up, but look at the big picture. The law is in effect and more of it takes effect in July. When there's no job to have and no public benefits to get, people here illegally will move on. The children caught in the middle, will move on with them. So, there's really no need to get fired up unless the law is repealed. Then, I would suggest contacting your representative and making your voice heard, just as it was last year. Until then, let the law take its effects. These problems can't be solved in months, when the problem has been going on for decades. Just be patient and give it chance to work its way through the various parameters of life.
J.T.(I), Norman - Feb 20, 2008 at 5:59 pm
I would like to say that no one helped me with my college education. I was laid off in 2003 until 2005 and it was suggested to me that I go back and get my Bachelor degree. I did so and ended up borrowing about $25000 on top of the scholarships for 2 years of college. I tried to get Pell Grants, but, since they are based on the prior year income i did not qualify. It did not matter that I was laid off and unemployed. Then after getting my degree I was able to work for about 2 years and then I was laid off again. Thanks to the Federal Gov't tnat promotes jobs being sent to other countries, that's where it went. It's high time the government starts taking care of it's own citizens instead of those in this country illegally, including their U.S. born children.
Larry, Council Hill - Feb 20, 2008 at 4:53 pm
You know what is so wrong with all this is that 90% of the people posting here are one and the same person. They are only trying to stir up all you other 10%.
sue, seminole - Feb 20, 2008 at 4:42 pm
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See Sharyn you just keep proving the point. Dumb as legal white okies are, there are some creatures dumber, and we need them to keep us from looking so bad to the rest of the nation. Can you even fathom how dumb you have to be to not have a clue about being "illegal" until you apply for college? You'd think the birth certificate might have been a no brainer, or the fact that the parents hid from whoever came knocking on the door or didn't communicate with the neighbors because they didn't speak the same language as the neighbors or that they didn't attend "parent-teacher" conferences for the same reason. And why do you want someone to leave who just makes you look smarter? As a matter of fact my/their staying may be the only way you could look smarter. Which I think is the point. You know I'm right or you wouldn't have had to combine "legals" with "illegals" to prove how smart they were. Even Larry gets it; you notice he said "attended" not "graduated." And he knows if we boot these kids out, they will want refunds of all that already spent money, just like he does. Furthermore, Larry is right on spot that every job held by an illegal is a job that was once held by a legal, and, think about it now, if we boot out the illegal, we gotta go grab those "legals" and haul them back to those lawnmowing, fruit picking, roof tarring, ditch digging jobs they thought they had left behind forevermore and good riddance. Well, gotta go now; Arkansas needs a boost in intelligence level.
Percy, Ardmore - Feb 20, 2008 at 3:56 pm
I don't hate them. But tell me this...How the Hell are they going to get a job if they are illegal? It is illegal for them to have a job without proper documentation, so they need to take steps to becoming legal. If they are 18, they are legally adult and they can go to INS and start the process. Sorry, that their parents broke the law but before they get any benefits of a US Citizen or legal immigrant, they need to get their status straightened out.
K, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 3:41 pm
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The absolute hatred of some Oklahomans toward brown skinned people disgusts me. How can you punish a child who came here at 2 years old, stayed out of trouble and made good grades, graduated high school, speaks English fluently, and now cannot go to college or get a good job? This is retarded. Your answer: Go back to Mexico? They have never BEEN to Mexico since they started talking. WTH is wrong with you people?
Bryan, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 3:31 pm
"In the 2006-07 school year, 244 undocumented students attended Oklahoma colleges," That's 244 U.S. citizens and LEGAL immigrants that were denied.
Larry, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 3:24 pm
I am a native born Oklahoman. Thru no fault of my own, my parents moved out of state. When I was ready to go to college, I moved back to Oklahoma and was charged out of state rates. Where is my refund of the money I was over-charged?
Larry, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Even if their parents brought them over, they are adults now and need to be responsible for their own actions. If after turning 18, they are still in this country illegally, they have broken the law. Period.
Larry, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 3:19 pm
EVERY job held by an illegal (which is also illegal) was once held by an American or a legal immigrant.
Larry, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 3:18 pm
What good is accomplished in giving an illegal an education much less a college education WHEN THEY CAN'T BE EMPLOYED?
Larry, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 3:14 pm
my response after reading the article is this: boo freakin hoo. Cry me a river. Where is the sympathy for the LEGAL immigrant who has to pay out of state tuition? I say reward those who came here legally with in-state tuition!
G. L., Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Percy - keep talking. If there was any doubt in my mind before...it is all gone now. IF you hate Oklahoma so much, do us a favor and leave with the illegal immigrants. Our intelligence level will go up when you leave.
K, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 1:49 pm
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What you say Sharyn? You mean all illegals aren't dumb, aberrent, mysogynists? You mean being "an illegal" isn't a biological dysfunction? A deviant lifestyle choice? They are so sharp (illegals) that you had to include "legals" in order to say they were not so dumb? You have no problem with their coming here as long as they fit into the monolingual Okie population? How dumb do they hafta be to fit in? Just how dumb is a legal white okie? So dumb he builds a fence around his state-----from the inside. So dumb he puts his shoes on backwards because his cap is. So dumb he puts his pants on one leg at a time---same leg. So dumb when Dick Cheney walks into the room with a loaded shotgun and asks who wants to go hunting, Okie jumps up and says "I'm game." If you love your kids and want them to succeed in school, please, please keep the illegal kids here to fill the bottom of the bell curve.
Percy, Ardmore - Feb 20, 2008 at 12:44 pm
The pro illegal alien UnOklahoman is at it again with biased reporting.This cheap labor shill paper will do anything to please the chamber.BOYCOTT the Oklahoman.
charles, tulsa - Feb 20, 2008 at 12:26 pm
"While they cost the state $112,000 in tuition waivers and state aid, they contributed $238,785 in tuition and fees." way to go randy...you failed in school....you failed in business.... you failed as a professor....now your failing as a politician.... how many chances will the ignorant okies give you?
Randy, Moore - Feb 20, 2008 at 12:15 pm
The pro illegal alien UnOklahoman is at it again with biased reporting.This cheap labor shill paper will do anything to please the chamber.BOYCOTT the Oklahoman.
charles, tulsa - Feb 20, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Percy Ardmore - Are you really that ignorant? There are some pretty smart illegal immigrants and legal immigrants. Not all are F students!! Quit making this a "RACE" issue!! It is about people breaking the law. If they go through the proper channels, I have no problem with the immigrants coming here, as long as they speak our language and don't become a financial drain on our government and state budgets.
K, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 12:00 pm
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If we keep these illegals in school, then our legal white oklahoma kids will have a chance to break the curve, make at least C's and go on to better legal white oklahoma lives. Pease reconsider the harm you are doing by removing the bottom tiers of our educational groups and thereby forcing white legal oklahoma kids to take their otherwise well-earned places at the bottom. Right now it is all that keeps our legal white oklahoma kids afloat at 48th in the nation. Without the illegals in school, by 2050 our legal white oklahoma kids will be lower than Darfur. Or Arkansas, whichever. How about mister from bogota slapping a bumper sticker on all those vehicles he's taking notes on: My illegal keeps your kid from making F's. Honk if you love Jesus.
Percy, Ardmore - Feb 20, 2008 at 11:19 am
What I find to be a complete oxymoron is people denounce HB 1804 because it leaves positions unfilled that Americans won't do because they say that Americans won't do grunt work for low pay yet they want us to educate these illegal children so they can also take the high paying jobs? Does anyone see the irony in this or is it just me?
Jan, Norman - Feb 20, 2008 at 10:50 am
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I say that instead of punishing the students for their parents actions, just make them pay the out-of-state tuition, have bilingual teachers for foreign language classes only, and if they can't learn english before getting to college, to hell with them. What's more suprising is the fact that mister in bogata actually made a comment that makes sense for once.
Robert, Tinker AFB - Feb 20, 2008 at 9:54 am
God, here we go again. NewsOK, why don't you save the energy and relocate to France now?
James, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 8:53 am
we can cry all day and point out all day. there are forces at work here that are far bigger than us. the unification of mexico and the USA is underway. mexico now owns america. we have lost our country.
Jack, Oklahoma city - Feb 20, 2008 at 8:35 am
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how else can I say this?
Jack, Oklahoma city - Feb 20, 2008 at 8:33 am
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this is wrong, wrong. unlike jobs and health care, education is not needed to survive. lower income americans would gladly go to college if it was paid for. and there are a lot of them out there. unlike the statement, "they do jobs americans will not do" does not apply here. our poor want to go to college if it was paid for. this country sucks. the mexicans now own this country. it is in the process of becoming third world.
Jack, Oklahoma city - Feb 20, 2008 at 8:33 am
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this is wrong wrong. you can debate health care and jobs for illegals. but education is not a survival tactic. unlike the statement, "they do jobs americans will not do" does not apply here. there are plenty of lower income americans that WOULD GO TO COLLEGE IF IT WAS PAID FOR!!!!!
Jack, Oklahoma city - Feb 20, 2008 at 8:31 am
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every part of this is wrong. wrong wrong. the illegals can argue and debate health care and jobs, but education is not needed to survive life. and unlike the statement, "they do work americans will not do" there are plenty of lower income americans THAT WILL GO TO COLLEGE IF GIVEN THE MONEY.
Jack, Oklahoma city - Feb 20, 2008 at 8:29 am
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Whites to be minority in US by 2050: study Mon Feb 11, 11:50 AM ET



Immigration will drive the population of the United States sharply upward between now and 2050, and will push whites into a minority, projections by the Pew Research Center showed Monday.

"If current trends continue, the population of the United States will rise to 438 million in 2050, from 296 million in 2005," an increase of nearly 50 percent, the study by the Washington-based think-tank said.

More than 80 percent of the increase will be due to immigrants arriving in the country and their US-born children, who will make up nearly one in five Americans by 2050 compared with one in eight in 2005, it said.

Whites, who currently make up around two-thirds of the US population, will become a minority (47 percent) by 2050, the report said.

The Hispanic population, currently the largest minority group, will triple in size and double in percentage terms from 14 percent in 2005 to 29 percent in 2050, the report said.

The Asian population will roughly double in percentage terms, from five percent to nine percent, while the black population will remain static at around 13 percent.

The projections are based on trends over the past 50 years, during which legal and illegal immigration have played an increasing role in US population growth, the report said.

From 1960 to 2005, new immigrants and their US-born descendants accounted for 51 percent of population increase, and for 58 percent from 1980 to 2005, the report said.

But, the report warned, "possible future changes in immigration policy" could impact the projections.

Illegal immigration has become a top issue in the race for the US presidency, especially among Republican candidates, most of whom favor of a crackdown.
Jack, Oklahoma city - Feb 20, 2008 at 8:27 am
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are you kidding me? this is what is wrong with the entire country. wow.

The law that went into effect Nov. 1 makes it harder for illegal immigrants to qualify for in-state college tuition and bars them from state scholarships
Jack, Oklahoma city - Feb 20, 2008 at 8:26 am
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Found this posted over on Topix about the author..

A native of New Mexico, Olivas has secured more than $5 million in grants from various foundations. His most recent work involves efforts to help undocumented immigrants obtain access to Texas colleges and universities.“Professors get a unique opportunity to pursue truth and have the independence that you don’t have in most professions,” Olivas says.“I’m happy I’ve been able to strike a chord and do some positive things for people.”

http://www.uh.edu/ia/farfel/pages/mOlivas.htm...

This was in 2001.

so follow the money to the agenda... is this piece gonna be part of the effort to secure another grant?
rusty, brundidge - Feb 20, 2008 at 8:04 am
They are out of state students. They can pay out of state tuition. Sorry that mom and dad chose to break the law. That is not my fault nor my childs. By the way, did you know in some school districts rather than make them learn English, they have Spanish speaking teachers. They need to speak English in this country...I don't care where you come from!! I am tired of pressing 5 for English on my phone.
K, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 7:53 am
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The premise of this article is frightening. We should not punish criminals because it causes their children to suffer? That's nuts!
Ray, Edmond - Feb 20, 2008 at 7:36 am
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Agreed Ray m it's time the employers start going to jail. We are in a recession and the building trades especially don't need the competition from those employers who pay their illegal workers slave labor. I urge all construction workers to write down license plate numbers and start asking for business licenses of people who they suspect are in the country ilegally or employ those who are.
mister, bogata - Feb 20, 2008 at 7:35 am
It's time for phase 2. Now that most the illegal aliens who were going to self deport have left, we need the rest of the law enforced. When we start charging people with harboring and transporting illegal aliens, a greater portion of them will self deport. Thank you Oklahoma for standing up for America!
Ray, Edmond - Feb 20, 2008 at 7:24 am
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Bleeding heart, Richard?? What is a person who has a bleeding heart=compassion, mercy, justice, Christian.
David, Norman - Feb 20, 2008 at 6:59 am
"The law that went into effect Nov. 1 makes it harder for illegal immigrants to qualify for in-state college tuition and bars them from state scholarships." <--- You are kiddding me, right? We are supposed to feel sorry because someone who is in our country illegally can't get scholarships? There are plenty of students who are legal citizens or have a visa who deserve those in state scholarships. If these illegal immigrants want to attend school here they should do so like all the other international students and obtain a visa.

Alina, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 6:40 am
It's about time some laws are followed. Why should Americans pay for the crimes of invaders? You won't get any sympathy from me like you do the bleeding hearts.
Richard, Oklahoma City - Feb 20, 2008 at 6:21 am

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