No more ridiculous than your assertion he was the right choice. The MAIN reason they started strong was because of weak competition. Sean's illustrious leadership showed just how important coaching can be as HE, SEAN SUTTON took that 15-1 team from one extreme to the other. Quite frankly, he should have been canned right then and there. Obviously no one is going to do that after one season...except in the pros. If you re-read my dissertation, I offered a possible suggestion that appeared plausible. All I know, is if I had a dependency problem and required constant medication just to sit up, I know I could not perform my job very well. Regardless, my qualms are not with the 2004 team, the 2005 team or the 2006 team. At issue right now is the 2007 team and their record speaks for itself. Throw in 2006 just for good measure and it SCREAMS fire the guy. 19 game road losing streak. That is not subjective banter. That is cold hard facts that illustrate he is not capable. As for Gundy, a) I stated before I was not originally on his bandwagon and am only so with one leg right now. b) the programs are completely different. Once again, the basketball program has been to the F4 twice in the past 13 years and many other dance cards. Legendary coaches, legendary arena, rabid fans and just simply a tradition of which relatively recent history has been very favorable. Gundy took over a program that is, despite my fondest wishes, a traditional also ran. Ups and downs but never a BCS bid or anywhere near a BCS bid. I do not believe in my lifetime we have never played a "new years" game, always Bob's Taco Stand Bowl games. Routinely get beat by the yahoos down the road and you could buy a 50 yard line ticket on game day. His program, despite gains by Miles, was nowhere comparable to what Sean was handed. And ONCE AGAIN, progress has been made from on-field performance to recruiting to fan interest. Sean's record has fallen, recruiting has fallen and you can buy a ticket on game day instead of having to put your name on a list. But you know what, you attempt to belittle me for my position but you STILL, after several days and War and Peace versions of internet blogs have not come up with one tangible argument for why he should be retained. Only excuses for events that he is responsible for and the steadfast ideal that he has somehow earned another year. You want to judge him based solely on the past two weeks and completely ignore the fact he has had the reins for over two years and purportedly was "the real coach" before that. As stated before, I honestly believe the administration will afford him another year and if they do, I hope to God you are right about his potential. The players are supposed to show potential. The coach, in my opinion, is supposed to show leadership and positive results on a consistent basis, not just spurts here and there. Respond if you wish. The thud we heard about two days ago was the proverbial dead horse and there is no need to belabor the issue any longer. Patrick, you have a good weekend.

Barry-I will be waiting for that admission because I just don't think you are capable of it. You have demonstrated a dogged determination to defend your position to the point of being ridiculous. You accept no excuses for losing, yet you make excuses for WINNING. The 15-1 was because of Eddies players (weren't they then still Eddie's players when they finished 7-12?), poor competition, etc. Before, you said Sean's involvement under Eddie was overstated, but now you want to blame Sean for OSU's decline in Eddie's last two years. You can't have it both ways. Now, can you explain why you think Sean is a bust because of his supposed lack of qualifications, yet you support Gundy who was far less qualified to be a Head Coach?

Maybe semantics, but just so everyone understands my position, I do not hate Sean Sutton. Have my doubts and reservations about him being a quality basketball coach but that does not equate to hating a man. Just wanted to make that clear.

15-1 start last year was with Eddie's players. All of the team was assembled (and some lost) under Eddie's watch. The start was also due, in my opinion, to a VERY weak non-conference schedule. They played just two ranked teams (admittedly they did win them) but everyone else were Little Sisters of the Poor type teams. Regardless, all of the non-conference games in the world do not matter as post-season play and determination of a team's worth are registered by conference play....a losing record and the NIT. That is the result of Sean's coaching ability of when the team was supposed to be hitting stride. The players are responsible for it as well, but the ultimate responsibilty lies with the coach. I agree the talent is not as good as the year you mentioned but I did not state expectations of deep runs into the tournament. I do not consider winning a cake walk game and a mid-seed game unreasonble. And you are also correct that team did not fare as well immediately after the F4 appearance. But since you are so in to excuses, do you think Eddie's demise was initiated on the way to College Station that day in February? No, he fell down an escalator around the time of the F4 and had documented issues with back problems all year leading up to that unfortunate day. Assumption here, but if he was in as much physical and dependency trouble as could be surmised, he would not have been on his proverbial A-game. Quite frankly, the correlation between his condition and the stated level of Sean's involvement leads quite nicely into my overall perception of Sean's worthiness as a coach. As for my admission, should it be warranted just wait and see. I have been wrong before in my life and owning up to my mistakes is part of who I am. You will get it if it is warranted. Four games of 20+...not warranted at this time. Robert, you are the one who is mistaken. The football team has had top-25 (or very close this year) ranked recruiting classes for at least the past three years. The basketball team has had one ranked class for as long as the agencies have been rating them and that class was summarily broken up by the reasons well documented here. Two kids remain from that class. One who was obviously over rated but is recently showing signs of life and the other that until the last game, had been replaced in the starting lineup by an underclassman. Even with Anderson's credentials, the recruiting class was not top 25 last year. I stand by my statement and suggest you take a look at Rivals or Scout. They rank them, not me. As for your second part, even with a high ranking, freshman recruits have to adapt to the college game and unseating an incumbent is difficult. Sure, some are so stellar that they can make the jump and contribute immediately, but that is the exception. One of the biggest problems with the football team is depth and the redshirt program is working to overcome that issue. In my opinion, this upcoming year is the make-or-break year for Gundy. With the talent he has assembled, he has all of the tools necessary to change the status quo that you indicated. Dean..."he just keeps winning"????? Sure look only at the past two weeks and completely ignore the other 100+ weeks the team has been his. Time will tell one way or the other.

That's a credible theory OSU fan and nothing for anybody to jump on you about. It would be a bit baffling after last year's finish as to why they would think they could coast earlier this year and you would hope they didn't need to have the threat of Sean's demise to motivate them. But, whatever it is, you are absolutely right that something has certainly clicked in Sean and the players the last few weeks. Their confidence seems to be growing and they are feeding off each other. It is going to be very interesting to see if it keeps up the rest of the year and carries over into next year (assuming of course that Sean's job is safe now).

Did anyone ever notice that Rufus, Spencer (see post below) looks just like Sean Sutton?

In spite of the naysayers, probably kin to or hired by the OSU athletic department or Pickens to keep up the negative rhetoric on Sean Sutton; He just keeps winning!!!!!! Go Pokes

Without everyone jumping all over me, could it be possible that Sean and the team were coasting earlier this season, neither putting forth their best effort? And when the heat began to be a real threat, (i.e. boos from the crowd, growing rumors of firing Sean, lack of attendence, and fans questioning the heart) everyone got a little reality check and started performing? The change in Sean's sideline demeanor in the last 5 games has been incredible, as well as Eaton and Dove. Eaton and Dove remain engaged, even when they are on the bench. Maybe the threat of the Cowboy faithful turning on them, woke everyone up...including Sean.

"We get nowhere near the quality basketball players as we do in football"???!!! Okay, Barry, now we know you are either just flat-out insane, or such a rabid Seanhater you will not let the facts get in the way of your argument. We have two McDonald all-Americans on the team; we have had some good football recruits but nothing near that level. If Gundy is starting to make progress on building talent, it is slow but not dramatic. We are at or near the bottom of the league in terms of returning all-Conference football players next year. If last year's recruits were so good, why did nearly all of them redshirt? If they were not good enough to contribute to a 6-6 team, maybe they are not as good as we all hope.

There is some talent there, but it cannot compare to the 2004 team of the Graham twins, John Lucas, Tony Allen, I-Mac & Co. By the way, what did we do the 2004-05 season, which was Eddie's last full season. ONE season removed from the Final Four, still with Graham twins, I-Mac, and Curry? Didn't even make the Sweet 16. Even the great ones have off years. Beyond that, the more of your posts I read, I think I see where you are coming from and why you are so determined to dislike Sean and want him to fail. It is simply a self-fulfilling prophecy. You did not like the fact that he was given the job, you hated the decision and vociferously voiced your opinion and now you are determined to be right. Let me ask you, did you hate the decision when Sean started 15-1 last year? You mentioned that you came out against the decision when it was made to make him the HC Designate. But, I'm betting you got real quiet when we were 15-1. As soon as you got some ammunition (losses), to back up your original position, you were back loudly reminding everyone. Saying in effect, "I told you so." Well now that may be slipping away with this recent run of solid improvement. It will never make any difference what Sean does as coach. It will never be good enough for you. You will always dislike him and, in spite of what you said earlier today, you will never admit you were wrong. In your own mind, you can always tell yourself you were right, because in all likelihood, Sean will not 100% live up to what Eddie did, but not many other coaches ever will.

I said they were the exceptions which is why I commented that you made my point about expectations regarding inexperienced coaches and why in the world would the decision ever have been made to give the job to someone with his lack of credentials. However, with the Calipari example, he took a program that had nothing but losing seasons for the 10 preceeding years of his arrival including an overall .300 winning percentage. Only had a handful of post season appearances and those were lumped in the 70's. With one exception, every year he won more games than the prior. Sean was two years removed from a Final Four and had possession of parts of a #1 rated recruiting class. I would say the Calipari example is perfect. And nothing against my friends from Lubbock, the TTU job is NOWHERE near the program we had during Eddie's riegn. Dickey got his job at TTU because he had been a part of several programs, including as a head coach at the high school level, for 15 years before they selected him from a field of candidates. So, no, there is no similarity between Dickey and Sutton in that aspect. Their tenure is similar, but Dickey had prior HEAD coaching experience and was selected from a field of candidates. You are right about part of my position being how he got the job. Because of how he got his job we are having these discussions. There is no way to find out, but in my opinion, if an experienced coach was on the bench for the past two years, the question would not have been if we get into the tournament, but how do I get tickets for the Sweet 16 or beyond. Admit it, the talent is there. Oh, and I wrote an internet response to the DOk the day I heard about Sean's promotion years ago. Too bad they did not post them at that time as all they had was a "comments" response box. This is not something I just dreamed up lately. I have hated this decision from day 1.

Let's just agree that Sean is in about Year 2.3. Good call on Few. I'll give you that one. But, that's the exception rather than the rule and you know it. Even your example of Calipari doesn't really prove your point. "John Calipari--First job, UMass. Losing record his first year, NIT year 2-3, danced years 4-9 before he left." OK, (throwing out the 10-game "year") Sean-winning record (22-13) and NIT first full year and so far winning record and likely NIT second year. Calipari didn't get to the dance until his fourth year, so Sean should have another year to get to the dance, just like I've been saying all along. Yet, you are ready to throw Sean out with the bath water after Year 2.3. Remember, Calipari was your example, not mine. I'm not ready to completely hang my hat on the current winning streak and say that Sean should be anointed permanent Head Coach at OSU or anything. But winning five of the last six, including two road games and two wins over ranked opponents could be a sign of progress. I think your last long post gives a really good clue as to just what your biggest problem is with Sean. You don't like the fact that Sean was handed the job, plain and simple. Sure, some guys have to work their way up through the ranks and some don't. Your guy Few didn't and that worked out. Somebody handed him a job probably based on a solid track record and working under good coaches as an assistant. You mentioned James Dickey. He got the job at Tech based on, guess what? The fact he worked under Eddie Sutton at Arkansas and Kentucky. Did Sean not have the same qualifications? It's very easy to look back now in hindsight and say Sean should not have been handed the job, but who knew? And who's to say Sean won't come along and eventually become a good Head Coach?

Patrick of Edmond is absolutely right. We need to concentrate on running a clean program, graduating players and keeping everyone off drugs and alcohol. Sean needs at least one more season to prove whether he can coach. He has had a terribly stressful beginning.

Agreed, it is officially his second full season but he does have the driver's seat experience from 10 games in 2006. For our Cowboy's sake, I hope things keep heading in the direction of the past two weeks. They have a long way to go but I keep hoping.

Good points Barry, however, this is actually Sean's second full season. The first should not and won't count on him due to the events he has had to deal with after Eddie had to resign. But, you do make some good points. Although, we could never fully understand how it is to see your father resign because of a DUI, as the players begin to get attitudes. Sean has already had to deal with that adversity and so far, he has not done very well. But lets just see how these next three games go.

Patrick, I did not want to, but the 2001 event was introduced to illustrate how adversity can be overcome. Adversity comes in all shapes and sizes. Sean's is losing players for a variety of reasons, in 2001, it was the accident. Please do not think I am comparing the two, they are just examples of adversity. You mentioned Eddie has the 40 years of experience which is correct. But his first job was at the high school level, then a juco or two, one of which he completely resurrected (sp?) in Idaho. Then to Creighton which is a mid-major school. He went through his "apprenticeship" jobs. Sean was handed the brass ring not for what he has done, but for who's kid he is. Look at it this way. If Sean were not in the picture and Glynn Cyprien or Jim Dickey who have both been parts of Eddie's staffs for long periods of time were the "instrumental" parts of the staff. Do you think either of them would have been given the HC Designate title? No, they would not have. A committee would have been formed to search for a candidate of which they may, or may not have been included. Because of who he is, Sean did not have to do any of that and was handed a car without a driver's license. Sure, he sat in the front seat for years, but that hardly qualifies him to drive. Oh, as for your question, you make my point, 100% unequivocably. So why give them the job? However, there are exceptions to every rule including Mark Few (Gonzaga may play in a mid-major conference but the program is by no means mid-major since the days of Dan Dickau). First job...Gonzaga. Sweet 16 first two years, 20 total losses his first three years, never lost more than three conference games/year. Dances every year. John Calipari--First job, UMass. Losing record his first year, NIT year 2-3, danced years 4-9 before he left. And nobody expected instant. But Patrick, this is his THIRD YEAR as a head coach. First year, wash up duty, take out the trash from the Eddie demise...learn the ropes, establish some footing. Second year. Implement YOUR program, lose some win some but show progress. Third year. Build on progress and have results greater than before. None of that has happened. Where is the earning power?

Sean may not have earned his stripes, but what he has earned is the right to have one more year to prove himself. Let's don't forget that Sean also lived through that nightmare and lost one of his best friends in Pat Noyes alhough I have no idea why you brought the plane crash into the discussion. You talk about Eddie being a REAL coach and being able to pull things together in adversity. No argument there, but but let's not forget that Eddie had 40 years or so experience as a Head Coach when he worked a lot of the miracles he worked at OSU. Sean has less than two. I serisouly doubt there are many coaches that have become Division I head coaches (without the benefit of a stop in the mid-majors) and had the instant success that you seem to demand. There is a difference between excuses and legitimate factors that contribute to the overall success or failure of a coach. If you prefer to live in this pessimistic, negative world of OSU athletics that you create and that is what gets you through the night then so be it, friend. We'll all be waiting for you when things get brighter.

Just read your post below mine, I see your point on recruiting and agree. Sean also signed a very solid top 25 basketball class last season, and I say we wait one more year on those kids to see if the team has improved. That is all I ask you to do. One more year, if there is not significant improvement (and I think there will be) then I will be the first to tell you that you were right!

I meant "through mostly good and bad" below, not the opposite. Sorry

Barry, I know that I have not questioned your allegiance. I am just wondering why you can let Gundy slide and not Sutton. You obviously feel he is not the guy for the job, but instead of saying that, you are using examples that don't always fit. That is my opinion. And let me tell you, comparing leadership of Eddie with the events of 2001 have little to do with Sean. He was the top assistant and you better believe he was apart of that leadership, along with his dad. I do not think Sean as earned his stripes, but Eddie earned his not over almost 2 seasons, but after 4 decades as a coach. Through good and mostly bad (though mostly good), he earned it. But, it seems you refuse to give that to a second year coach. Fine, but don't assume that I am making excuses for Sean. I am just pointing out that some of your previous arguments seemed slanted. I am not sure hardly anyone that is an OSU fan thinks Sean has "earned his stripes" but I could think of a few coaches who have fit that mold and have turned out great. By the way, I have always supported the team, before and after 2001, to answer your question about how many have been there.

Sax, I am not 100% on Gundy either but the improvement is there. Not sure why you do not want to consider the recruiting coups, but I do. If the program were not headed in the right direction, those kids would have gone elsewhere. We get nowhere near the quality basketball players now as we do football. Recruiting which is part of coaching. Getting to a bowl game each year is an improvement. Being in games that traditionally we were not in. Yes, we still get our hats handed to us a couple of times a year. Mike's squads have improved but admittedly flat-lined. If that program continues to flat-line or dives, then I will be vocal about his replacement. Marcus, you made part of my point I have unsuccessfully tried to get people to acknowledge for days/weeks now. If Sean was so instrumental, the program would not be where it is now. However, Eddie was the most influential recruiter. Sean was the messenger. The kids wanted to come to play for Eddie.

Excuses. Nothing but excuses. Every team goes through adversity. Leadership overcomes adversity. We lost 10, unbelievably talented people from the program in 2001. There is NOTHING in the world that ANY team could ever have to overcome more devastating than that single event. (by the way, I have been to the memorial several times and stood there in quite respect of 10 people I did not know from Adam with tears in my eyes. How many of you who question my allegiance have been there?) I do not care if Nate and Daniel were only spot players. That event was more humbling than any number of malcontents leaving or graduation losses. A REAL coach kept that team together. Still managed to salvage five more wins and a winning conference record including a thorough arse whooping of 13th ranked OU on their floor. Nobody would have questioned anyone if they packed it in but a real coach pulled them all together. The following year...23 wins, 7 losses. All I ever hear is excuses. So keep believing Sean has earned his stripes. Whatever gets you through the night.

We all have to remember that Sean took on a much bigger roll while Eddie was still head coach than just an assistant. He basically ran the practices. He created the scouting reports for each team and was the most influential recruiter. Sure, I like many poke fans have been disappointed in the effort thus far, but the future is bright with this young team. Dove will be the only starter leaving this year. Eaton has realized that if he wants to get to the next level he must improve his stats now and pad them next year. Harris is beginning to become more of a factor after living in the shadow of Jameson. Thomas and Adams will both be a force to deal with in the middle. I just think 2 years is not enough to determine whether or not a coach should keep his job.

Barry, while I see that you were not excited about the Gundy hire, what improvements over his tenure has lead you to believe he is better for his job then Sutton? Good recruiting classes? No, no. I say, over the course of a season, seeing the improvement is the key. I saw none of that in football, getting blown out against OU and beating a hardly-decent team in a bowl game does not make me 100% sold on him (although let me stress that I like Gundy and was happy with the hire) I think you will see Sutton begin to improve over the end of this season and into next season. If not by next season, then I say lets find someone else. But, have some patience, we are willing to do that for Gundy.

Deann, I respectfully disagree. 1945 and 1946 national championships, one of, if not the greatest coach ever in Hank Iba, a legend of the game who makes most every pre-1950's era and some all time all-star lists in Bob Kurland. I would say that is a pretty long time. I too was in Iba watching Leroy Combs, Lorenza Andrews, Matt Clark, Richard Dumas, Johnny Pittman and the others. While I personally knew several of them from GR classes at the time and they were wonderful people, I do not want to go back to that time. And since you brought it up, I was not thrilled with Gundy's hire either. But while they have not made the strides we have all hoped for, you can see the improvments--over the course of his direction. Not just the last four games.

It just goes round 'n round Barry. You think I only see the positive and you appear to only see the negative. You are also guilty of ignoring everything POSITIVE that happended beforehand. For instance, when OSU started out 15-1 last year, did you think Sean was a terrible coach then? But instead of seeing that as a positive and seeing the entire big picture of everything that's happened over the last two years, you only see the 7-12 finish last year and the 11-12 start this year. You also absolutely refuse to acknowledge the fact that OSU had many defections and injuries (Obi) and such that depleted the roster. You stated yesterday that Gerald Green was a non-entity. Not so. The point of my bringing up him, Brumbaugh, Flowers and other highly recruited players that either never saw the court for us or left for other reasons was to illustrate the fact that those roster (i.e., scholarship) spots ended up either being completely vacated or filled with the Tyler Hatches of the world. And don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Tyler Hatch. The kid plays hard and gets the most out of his abilities, but he is not in the same league athletically as those other guys. You accuse everybody else of being myopic and think you are the only one that sees things clearly, but your stubborn refusal to see the positive and to fairly weigh all factors that have gone into Sean's overall record do not make you the realist that you fancy yourself to be. That makes you that term I used yesterday- a habitual malcontent purveyor of negativism.

Barry, Fort Collins. Our storied basketball tradition is not that long. When I was in school, at the end of Mr. Iba's reign, we could hardly win a game and they almost had to pay students to attend. I credit the Sutton family for most of the tradition we have today. I think Sean deserves more time to settle in to his position. I esteem his ability to see the floor and recognize what is going on at all times. I understand he has been ill (flu and even pneumonia), and that may account for some of the slump. Please give him some more time. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - However, I'm not too sure about the football program and coach. But, that's another forum.

Myopia--Nearsighted....To paraphrase, seeing only what is directly in front of them. Read all of the definitions, Patrick. Everyone is all excited about the 4-game win streak which is great. But in doing so, you are completely ignoring everything beforehand. While evaluating Sutton, I look at the comprehensive picture instead of one little portion. If it keeps up, excellent. But that is yet to be determined and is simply speculation at this point. We can all hope for the best. If it keeps up long term, I will gladly come on this board and admit I was in error regarding my perspective on Sean's coaching ability. But that little mea culpa is a long way off based on the statistical evidence and track record. Bob, if OSU had KU's record, a loss here and there is not a big deal. 45% losses...a big deal. As for praying for losses, yeah right, just what I always do...hope the alma mater, where I spent six years of my life, where I got two degrees, to whom I have contributed $5000 to the general education and athletic funds over the course of the past two years alone, and the same university I traveled 900 miles to see in the Insight Bowl two months ago...yeah, hoping they lose is what I do all day long. What a maroon. By the way, it is not OSU hate drivel. It is expressing my opinions about the worthiness of Sean Sutton as the coach of our storied basketball program. Very clear distinction there. I am an OSU loyalist from the decals on my cars, the flag on my porch (HOA just loves it!!) down to the color I am having my boat painted (you should see the computer generation...it is AWESOME). I almost have my wife convinced to get an orange Hummer to pull the thing. If you do not like my position on Sutton, cool, I can live with that. I have my opinion and you guys have yours. I personally enjoy the constructive comments because when quality input instead of rhetoric is offered, I have the opportunity to see quantitative logic behind why Patrick and others see the flip side of the coin. But do not confuse my opinions about the coaching situation with your assumption I have any disdain for the university. I have been out for almost 20 years now and have had ample opportunity to become a "Ram" or a "Buffalo". Not for me. I will always bleed orange and black. And as long as they get their check each year, I am sure at least the administration wants me to remain a Cowboy as well!!! Sorry, Bob.

That's right Tom. Another Sutton hallmark-defense. Harris scored 15 points in only 17 minutes against Mizzou. If he could just learn to stay out of foul trouble and keep up the offensive production, he would really be weapon.

Better defense and Harris playing better on offense has helped. The role players have been giving positive minutes also. Defense will be the key.

Barry (glass-half-full) from Ft. Collins: What is your problem, man? A couple of days ago, you wrote how unimpressed you were with the win an Mizzou, which you characterized as a middle-of-the-pack, second rate team. Let me point out that Kansas could NOT beat such team on the road just a few days earlier. Do you think Bill Self should be fired, too? Now you want to rant on how the last four games don't mean anything. I guess that means that last year's 15-1 was the real deal and the 7-12 finish didn't mean anything? It sounds to me like you're just a guy who hates ever admitting that you were wrong. You claimed to be an OSU fan (I think you said something to like..."don't get me wrong, I'm still a Cowboy fan"). But I suspect you are just PRAYING for a string of Cowboy LOSSES so you can come back on here and spout your vile OSU hating drivel. A REAL fan would support the team AND the coach. Why don't you just get lost and start rooting for Colorado or someone else. Stay out of our lives, please!

From Webster's Dictionary: myopic = a lack of foresight or discernment : a narrow view of something. I guess it would be very easy for anybody on one side of an argument to call the other's view "myopic" while not acknowledging that their own is as well.

Let us just say I disagree and four games does not a season, nor 2+ seasons make. Myopia does wonders for some people, but to each their own.

has anyone seen Rufus's face?

Come on guys. Let's don't make it personal. Running a clean program, graduating players, developing productive young men, results on the court. Those are the things we need to worry about.

"Sean Sutton's face looks like a rat's face"

I've always thought it was more of an enraged rabbit. But no one's ever hired a Sutton for physical beauty. We want to see basketball beauty :)

Has anyone every noticed that in his photos, Sean Sutton's face looks like a rat's face??

Here we go again. Ole' Barry from Ft. Collins is going to be hating this article. The other Berry (Tramel) is pretty much going along with what many of us have been saying on here. It's all about improving and starting to gel as a team and Sean starting to gel as a coach. To mess with that at this point would be a travesty.