Oklahoma City residents had plenty of reasons to vote down last week's election on Ford Center improvements.
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Ownership will ask for a new arena five to 10 years down the line, some feared. Others rejected the idea of paying for upgrades that millionaire and billionaire owners could easily cover.
Citizens had valid reason to question the need to pay the cost of an NBA-use-only practice facility, or object the Ford Center measure because they're not NBA fans and shouldn't have to pay for something they'd never use, or because there is always better things to spend tax dollars on.
But the criticism sailed foul when some argued that the NBA's presence would increase Oklahoma City's crime rate and drag down the city.
Too many examples were heard from callers of talk radio shows and seen on reader comments around the Internet. Suggestions for possible team nicknames included "Posse,” "Thugs” and "Hoodlums.”
Bill from Tulsa took it a step further in his response to a March 4 column by The Oklahoman's Berry Tramel.
"The answer is no,” Bill wrote on NewsOK.com. "We don't want the NBA, with its image problems, fatherless children, egomaniacs and shootings. No thanks.”
Fortunately, not everyone was as misguided.
In response to Bill from Tulsa, Jill in Oklahoma City wrote: "The NBA has a fabulous public service mandate for their players. Imagine Kevin Durant reading to your child at school. There are some players who can provide a very positive role model for our children.”
Patrick in Edmond chimed in by challenging those who contend the NBA has a horrible image to come up with one bad thing that happened in Oklahoma City during the Hornets' two-year stay that could be directly linked to the NBA's presence.
Good luck with that one.
What about Chris Paul screamed thug? His Hornets teammate, Tyson Chandler, unlike the clean-cut, tattoo-less Paul, showed up in Year 2 with a Mohawk and a body covered with ink. And still, Chandler was every bit the gentleman Paul was. Married and a proud father, too, for what it's worth.
The NBA obligates players to make 12 appearances during the season and fines no-shows $20,000. Some players do the bare minimum. Many go the extra mile.
There are roughly 450 NBA players, and to label the entire league thugs, hoodlums or egomaniacs is unfair and ill-advised.
For every Stephen Jackson and Jamaal Tinsley — players who've recently made headlines for incidents in which they were forced to protect themselves with guns — there are NBA locker rooms filled with players who mirror Paul and Chandler. Players that make hospital visits, reach out to the homeless, build basketball courts and make the day of unsuspecting elementary school children.
Unfortunately, isolated shootings make for better headlines than story time.
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Hmmm, what proof? You do read the paper and watch the news don't you? First of all, I never mentioned any specific race (either of the players or the gangs) you did. It's also a shame that some don't slow down and read for comprehension before posting (have been guilty a time or two myself). You missed my point entirely as it doesn't appear to be a race thing at all (black, white, Hispanic, whatever). Race isn't an issue because the racial make-up of teams is similar in other college and professional sports (especially basketball and football). I thought it was pretty clear that I said gangs associate/identify with the NBA (not the other way around)...there is a difference. Also I was asking questions, not stating fact. I said "Until the NBA can break that association (real or perceived) they are going to have an image problem..." I stressed (by mentioning it a couple of times) that it wasn't a race thing so I wouldn't get flaming posts calling me a racist. You mentioned race more times in your post than I did...does that make you a racist? I don't think so. Since you are the "first to admit the NBA has an image problem,but certainly not because the NBA is connected to gangs", in your opinion, what IS the NBAs image problem? If it isn't gang related why is there a fear that the NBA would increase crime (in the headline). Would the same fears be expressed if an NHL or NFL team were relocating here?
It is a shame that people publicly share their ignorance with the world.My question is what proof or findings dose any one have that the NBA is associated or connected with gangs?Larry from OKC what proof do you have besides your own perception,is it because you see a sport that is majority young african american males (some) whom have come from poor or gang filled neighborhoods,you say its not a race thing even though you mention race twice in your message so dont try to convince me that race is not an issue lets be honest IT IS,if it was not you would not have put race in your message.One of the reasons that the NBA has a image problems is because people make up things like the NBA is connected with gangs and gangmembers. I will be the first to admit the NBA has an image problem,but certainly not because the NBA is connected to gangs.Sorry Larry but it is ignorant, nonfactual staments and comments like yours that give the NBA an image problem!!!!
Obviously the resolutioin passed. What ignorant people will say somrtimes. For Bill in Tulsa get a life and stay in Tulsa where you can worry about cost overuns on the new arena up there with no permanent tenant. Would you fell the same if MLB or the NFL wanted to put a franchise in OKC or Tulsa? Yes you will have the guys that do the bare minimum, however for those few you will have the TEAM LEADERS that step up and go for broke to bring a positive image.
Hmmm...maybe the NBA has an image problem because most gangs (no matter what racial makeup) associate/identify with NBA teams? Please correct me if I am wrong on that but don't recall much connection of gangs and other professional or even college sports (hockey, football, baseball). Gangs seem to focus in on professional basketball for some reason. Until the NBA can break that association (real or perceived) they are going to have an image problem no matter how "perfect" their players are. From that standpoint, the fear of an NBA team leading to increased crime (from gang members) may have some validity. Again I am not saying this is a racial thing, but a gang thing.
Suggesting that the NBA will increase the crime rate is blatantly racist. A few in OKC are obviously afraid of 20 additional black men (all millionaires) walking the streets. I hope the NBA does come to Oklahoma to reverse the ignorance of what I hope is only a very small contigent of racists those parts.
It's sad that some people still think that the NBA team will increase crime in Oklahoma. Many of the leauges best player's are married with children and do very good things for their communities. Baseball has a scandal, player's in the NFL are awlay's in trouble, and some NFL player's have done some crappy things this past year yet the NBA gets judged the hardest.
The Hornets were their for 2 years and nothing happened. What exactly is Kevin Durant and Jeff Green going to do if the Sonics do get moved to Oklahoma? I completly mistified in what crimes are going to happen.
Bill your just ticked off about the fact that Darnell called you on your idiotic biased comments labeling all players in the NBA with statements like "We don't want the NBA, with its image problems, fatherless children, egomaniacs and shootings. No thanks.” Darnell went on to state points in his article like "The NBA obligates players to make 12 appearances during the season and fines no-shows $20,000. Some players do the bare minimum. Many go the extra mile." and many other valid points like "Unfortunately, isolated shootings make for better headlines then story time." Never once in Darnell's article did he ever state every player in the NBA is a shining example of positive virtue, but what he was trying to say is that it is unfair to base such an uneducated biased opinion like yours on an entire group of professional athletes, simply due to the un-savory actions of few. I mean that's like me saying all US Presidents cheat on their wives because Bill Clinton got down with Monica Lewinsky! You know and I also agree with Chris! If the NBA are nothing more then ego maniac, makers of fatherless children, gangsters shooting people that you claim, why exactly might it be that that didn't seem to be a problem when the Hornets were in Oklahoma City? Bill honestly, you mean to tell me that an negative impact in crime in the city of Las Vegas, where you can locate a mob boss or two that probably owns a casino, plus you can legally pay for a prostitute, was due to the fact that two teams of NBA All-Stars played a basketball game there, you can't be serious?! Lastly if you happend to do the research that you claim Darnell didn't do in his article, i'd love to see the the sources of these numerous articles you speak of. But then again it's kind of hard to prove your point when you don't have a leg of actual information to stand on, ha ha come on Bill, I don't think so.
Bill, there were 3 other huge events going on in Vegas the same weekend of the all-star game (especially the chinese's new year)..I heard the main problem was that there were too many people. Besides, the biggest troublemaker of the entire weekend was Pacman Jones, an NFL player. None of the NBA players or people related to the NBA created troubles.
And why don't you mention about last month's all-star game. The event was great. No shootings, no problems. Everything went on great. Not only that, the NBA organized the greatest community effort in pro sports history (and it was also the greatest community effort in New Orleans since hurricane Katrina hit). So, I think you are conveniently ignoring this thing. You are just bringing up the negative (besides, nothing wrong happened in past all-star games..it was just Vegas).
And another thing, do you remember something negative happened in OKC during the Hornets stay? I don't. So, I don't see how come some of you are so worried.
I realize that Darnell and all the other sports writers desperately NEED the NBA in OKC so they can justify their jobs, but good grief, did he even do any research at all? The articles detailing the NBA All Star week in Las Vegas last year, and the criminal excesses that accompanied it, are numerous. Do a little research next time, Darnell, before you simply spout the NBA-fed line about what great guys they all are.
NBA would increase crime in Oklahoma city, you can't be serious?? In case you haven't noticed our "Seattle Super Sonics" don't go around Seattle shooting people. Plus with any sport be it in highschool or on up to professional you find people who have big egos, and you find people who are more humble about their talents. What I truly think this boils down to is not that one basketball team that consists barely of 40 to 50 people when you count players and support staff is capable of dropping the crime rate of a city of over 500,000 people. I think what this all comes down to is young black men playing professional basketball. Honestly do you really think if Oklahoma still has these non-progressive racially stereotipical ways of thinking aired in the local OKC media, that anyone is going to look at Oklahoma City any way but negative after taking progressive liberal Seattle's basketball team, and having them play in a place where some of their players are labeled thugs and not being fathers to their children simply because of their skin color and that they happen to play professional basketball? I can't beleive how in the year 2008 that anyone could ever think in such a way. When the Sonics move to Oklahoma alot of eyes will be on Oklahoma City, is this really the image that Oklahoma City wants to present to the world? Because once members of the large scale sports media outlets here stories of how some OKC residents are worried that one NBA team will be a huge detriment to their city, or that the team's thugs and makers fatherless children will raise the crime rate, the image the rest of the world sees of Oklahoma City definately won't be pretty.
Chris, calm down. You have completely misread the comments. I agree that the NFL has as big a problem. But you shouldn't use the superlative, "every crime that happens". No one thinks there is a 100% coorelation between black and crime. Just between gangs and crime. Remember, the article is about gangs.
from ESPN's Bill Simmons article on the NBA All-Star Weekend in New Orleans..I agree 150% with him
"As one NBA higher-up whispered to me last weekend, "People still think we have an image problem, I just don't get it. Do they even watch us? Do they see the caliber of the guys we have now?"
That's the issue gnawing at everyone working for the league right now. The NFL has considerably more thugs, Major League Baseball has a steroids scandal that basically has tainted the past 15 years of games, yet somehow the NBA is still perceived as the league with an image problem? For god's sake, if the NBA can't put that tag to rest this year, of all years, then it's never happening, and we'll have to accept there are deeper issues at work here.
(Well, one deeper issue. And you know what it is.)"
another thing, let's see what happens in other sports. The NFL (I have nothing against it just so you know)has a way bigger number of players arrested (and not just because there are more players in the NFL..no matter how you put the numbers, the NFL still has way more troublemakers than the NBA.) Last summer there has been just one week without NFL players getting arrested..and ZERO weeks without football players in general getting arrested if you count both pro and college football. Not to mention spygate, steroids, dogfighting and several players with drugs problems. Obviously the great majority of NFL players are good citizens, exactly like in the NBA, but if this same thing happened in the NBA (the fact that there was only one week without NFL players getting arrested last summer..not to mention a few players getting in trouble in the past month) there would be cries to outlaw the league. But you seem to don't care if this happens in the NFL. People keep watching. But if a scrub who rides the pine in the NBA gets a speeding ticket or something like that, you all go ballistic and it seems like the sky is falling. How ridiculous.
Besides, I doubt we would be even having this conversation if an NFL team was coming to town. No one would be wondering if the crime rate would increase or not, right?
As an NBA fan, I really feel saddened to hear what some people think about this league (and let's hope no league executive is reading this forum..the league would start thinking twice before giving this city an NBA team). So, I find it ridiulous that the NBA gets blamed for every crime that happens. I mean, people are so stupid to think that if a black man (a man completely unrelated to the NBA) kills another one, it's the NBA's fault. EXCUSE ME?????????? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Oh boy, that's just crazy to say the least. Think about it for one second. Isn't it crazy?
I closely follow the NBA and I rarely hear about players getting in trouble nowadays. The league is rebounding quite well and there are very few troublemakers now. Even the players who used to be troublemakers (off the top of my head, Rasheed Wallace or Iverson) are behaving like good citizens now. The vast majority of players are respectul and are good citizens. Most of the players NEVER got in trouble. So, I don't really know how is it possible we are even having this conversation. All of your opinions about the NBA are based on stereotypes, generalizations. I can't even believe that people are so crazy to bash the NBA for everything. So, let's see. As soon as there's a shooting in a school, or mall etc., do you guys blame the NBA instead of blaming the psycho (who doesn't have anything to do with the NBA) who decided to kill people? I really don't know what's wrong with some of you? Really, I find this thing mind-boggling. Does it even make sense?
And honestly, do you remember Hornets players creating troubles during their stay in Oklahoma City? I don't. They acted in a classy way, both on-and-off the court. If that's not enough, then it can only mean two things : you are either a racist (like "mister", and btw "mister", you said that the thug in the ATM was wearing a houston astros cap: hmmm the houston astros are not an NBA team..the astros are a MLB team just so you know) or you just hate pro basketball and need one excuse to bash it.
The premise of this article is incorrect. The Birdman used illegal substances. Even if it was just 1 time, that would make the crime rate higher than if the NBA was not here.
Darnell makes the classic mistake journalist, ususally with an agenda, make. Yes, of course, the NBA represents both the good and bad in society. It's just that they represent a disproportionately large segment of the bad behavior than does society in general. They are a very visible example of gangster dress, guns, extramarrital babies...........
And John from Lawton, before you get too sanctimonious, take a look at yesterdays Lawton Constitution, a three page expose` about the significant rise of gangs in Lawton over the last year. 9 gang related deaths in a town that usually doesn't have 9 homicides in three years.
But the criticism sailed foul when some argued that the NBA's presence would increase Oklahoma City's crime rate and drag down the city.<-----um Daniel , thats in the article , maybe you should re-read it
That is just it, MISTER, not all blacks are Thugs. Just like not all whites are clean cut and innocent. I know of a few white kids that are not allowed around my teenage kids because they are "Thugs" as you put it. See there is the difference. Raise your daughters to know who is a "thug" and who isn't. My kids have alot of black friends and they must have some wonderful parents because these kids are polite and respectful.
Those Duke lacrosse players did something to that Black girl. They just couldn't prove it.<-----they made one of the worst mistakes white kids could make , they hired a black stripper.
To be fair Daniel the thug in the ATM pic WAS wearing a Houston Astros cap , in fact they even had a separate picture of the cap. It's really more of a black thing than an NBA thing ( violence ) I suppose, but the NBA does seem to glorify it more. Michael Vick is black isn't he as well tho ?
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Hornets guard Chris Paul has been a model citizen, helping to debunk the myth that the NBA is full of troublemakers. Associated press
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The Hornets were their for 2 years and nothing happened. What exactly is Kevin Durant and Jeff Green going to do if the Sonics do get moved to Oklahoma? I completly mistified in what crimes are going to happen.
And why don't you mention about last month's all-star game. The event was great. No shootings, no problems. Everything went on great. Not only that, the NBA organized the greatest community effort in pro sports history (and it was also the greatest community effort in New Orleans since hurricane Katrina hit). So, I think you are conveniently ignoring this thing. You are just bringing up the negative (besides, nothing wrong happened in past all-star games..it was just Vegas).
And another thing, do you remember something negative happened in OKC during the Hornets stay? I don't. So, I don't see how come some of you are so worried.
Grow up please.
"As one NBA higher-up whispered to me last weekend, "People still think we have an image problem, I just don't get it. Do they even watch us? Do they see the caliber of the guys we have now?"
That's the issue gnawing at everyone working for the league right now. The NFL has considerably more thugs, Major League Baseball has a steroids scandal that basically has tainted the past 15 years of games, yet somehow the NBA is still perceived as the league with an image problem? For god's sake, if the NBA can't put that tag to rest this year, of all years, then it's never happening, and we'll have to accept there are deeper issues at work here.
(Well, one deeper issue. And you know what it is.)"
Besides, I doubt we would be even having this conversation if an NFL team was coming to town. No one would be wondering if the crime rate would increase or not, right?
You people are sad.
I closely follow the NBA and I rarely hear about players getting in trouble nowadays. The league is rebounding quite well and there are very few troublemakers now. Even the players who used to be troublemakers (off the top of my head, Rasheed Wallace or Iverson) are behaving like good citizens now. The vast majority of players are respectul and are good citizens. Most of the players NEVER got in trouble. So, I don't really know how is it possible we are even having this conversation. All of your opinions about the NBA are based on stereotypes, generalizations. I can't even believe that people are so crazy to bash the NBA for everything. So, let's see. As soon as there's a shooting in a school, or mall etc., do you guys blame the NBA instead of blaming the psycho (who doesn't have anything to do with the NBA) who decided to kill people? I really don't know what's wrong with some of you? Really, I find this thing mind-boggling. Does it even make sense?
And honestly, do you remember Hornets players creating troubles during their stay in Oklahoma City? I don't. They acted in a classy way, both on-and-off the court. If that's not enough, then it can only mean two things : you are either a racist (like "mister", and btw "mister", you said that the thug in the ATM was wearing a houston astros cap: hmmm the houston astros are not an NBA team..the astros are a MLB team just so you know) or you just hate pro basketball and need one excuse to bash it.
And John from Lawton, before you get too sanctimonious, take a look at yesterdays Lawton Constitution, a three page expose` about the significant rise of gangs in Lawton over the last year. 9 gang related deaths in a town that usually doesn't have 9 homicides in three years.
If the NFL was moving to your town, would we be having the same arguement.....thats all im saying