STILLWATER — Lack of victories didn't cost Sean Sutton his job. Lack of leadership did.
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That's what can be culled from a strange but predictable Tuesday on the Oklahoma State University campus, when OSU fired a favorite son as basketball coach.
OSU athletic director Mike Holder removed Sean not so much because of two straight mediocre seasons, but because Holder didn't believe things would improve.
Holder won't say that straight up and didn't Tuesday at a press conference in Gallagher-Iba Arena.
But Sean's shortcomings as a head coach went far past a 39-29 overall record and no NCAA Tournament appearances.
Two years is not enough time to give a coach to win. But it is enough time for a boss to judge whether a coach can get the job done.
"For whatever reason, it wasn't working,” Holder said.
Holder declined to address specifics on why he and Sean "mutually agreed” that a coaching change was necessary.
"That's between Sean and I,” Holder said. "I'm not a micromanager. I'm not going to tell a guy how to run his program.”
But Holder has had "many” conversations with Sean. "He knew what the expectations were.”
And didn't meet them. OSU hoops have not run smoothly even off the court since Sean took over.
Three player arrests between May and July last year.
An unstable coaching staff: Jimmy Williams was fired last year to make way for Corey Williams, a former OSU teammate of Sean's, but Corey Williams stayed only a month before leaving for a job at Florida State. And in February, Sean swapped the duties of assistant coach Kyle Keller and director of basketball operations Mike Hatch.
The departure of Corey Williams was most telling. He had talked of how working at OSU was a dream, then bolted a few weeks into the job.
Sean's work ethic also has been a concern, as a variety of sources have questioned his frequent absences from Gallagher-Iba Arena.
Of course, win enough games, and no one cares about any of that. But lose enough, and your boss will wonder how things will get better.
Forget the idea that this is some kind of Holder versus Eddie Sutton grudge match. I assume there's something to their spat, and Holder might be a strange bird to be sitting in the AD's chair, but make no mistake. Holder wants to win. And he loves OSU.
I believe Holder when he said it was "tough day to be a Cowboy” and "there's no joy in Stillwater today.” I believe him when he says he had many sleepless nights wrestling with this the past few weeks.
Holder believed a change was needed but had trouble pulling the trigger. He made this decision because he thinks it's best for Cowboy hoops, and he's not alone.
I talked to new OSU President Burns Hargis, who was in Dallas, and while he agreed that it was a sad day for State, he also stood by Holder.
"The kind of management I try to do is you let your managers manage,” Hargis said. "If they go in the direction you think is dead wrong, you need to deal with that.”
Hargis didn't step in.
"This situation seemed to be what it was,” Hargis said. "Obviously, I supported Mike. We both realized it just wasn't working and decided to go our separate ways.
"The issue of wins and losses really didn't enter into it.”
There you have it.
I'm a big fan of Sean Sutton the person and was pulling hard for Sean Sutton the coach. But it wasn't working. And Mike Holder didn't believe it ever would.
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Mack I hope you don't live in a glass house. It's QUIETS not quites........
I am quite surprised to find Berry writing this kind of article but it is objective and quite correct. Let's hope this quites some critics who have no knowlege whatsoever and can't even spell Seans name.
I blast you when you're off base on matters concerning OSU, so I've got to praise you when you hit the bullseye. I believe this column not only hit the bullseye; it was a Robin Hood.
Take charge and be accountable. If there is a better man for the job don't be afraid to admit it and hire them. That is how you grow. Not make everyone happy. That impossible.
1. Was it really two years? The guy has been there since the early 90's. I dont care that not all of it was as the head coach. He was given a program on a silver platter and completely ruined it (hopefully just in the shorterm).
2. We have more talent on this team than EVER! Two McDonald's AA, 5 star Obi, Big time recruits in Harris and Moses. Sean and his staff CAN NOT develop talent. Look at Rick Barnes. He lost the best freshman possibly in history and is better the next year?! With 2 stud sophomores that keep improving, 1 junior, and improving freshman. He even developed that goofy white kid atchley!
3. No way we miss the tournament next year. None. I could lead them to the NCAA's. Bottomline, Holder had to get rid of Sean now or else fire him after another poor season, albeit in the big dance, but still not good enough for OSU.
4. Fact. We have one of the best arenas in the country and great fans. Fact. Forbes ranked OSU in the top 15 profitable programs 2 years ago. Well why didnt we show up this year? Because the product on the court is lousy. Attendance was disgraceful. Check that profitability now. If I am a business decision maker like Holder is. This alone is reason to can Sean.
5. We will get an unbelievable coach. Guarenteed. It might not be a "big" name. I bet it will be, but it will be worst case a remarkable Sean Miller, a "2007 National Coach of the year" Tony Bennett, or a "was good enough to replace Billy Donovan at Florida" Anthony Grant. All are major upgrades and we WILL land someone of this caliber.
Now, I am sick and tired of hearing HALF of you saying he deserved more time. He didnt win. He couldnt win on the road. He was awful against OU. He couldnt fill an arena. He couldnt land some big time recruits this year. TC's kid brother, 5 star recruit Daniel Orton said Sean is "weird" and he will not go to OSU. Sean did not deserve anything. He is not a good coach for OSU. Period.
Now, moving on. Good luck with the hire. It will be a major improvement.
No offense to the OSU crowd but OSU was dead as a basketball school. Very dead. The best thing that ever happened to OSU was that a guy who was washed out and done got the job there. Sean is not yet his father. He is comparatively a better coach in his sport than the OSU football coach. This is clearly a case of people thinking money makes you smart. If Bill Self were truly in on the job, then a smart Bill Self would say don't fire Sean until after the NCAA finals. His team does not need the distraction.
No offense to the OSU crowd but OSU was dead as a basketball school. Very dead. The best thing that ever happened to OSU was that a guy who was washed out and done got the job there. Sean is not yet his father. He is comparatively a better coach in his sport than the OSU football coach. This is clearly a case of people thinking money makes you smart. If Bill Self were truly in on the job, then a smart Bill Self would say don't fire Sean until after the NCAA finals. His team does not need the distraction.
berry did write a good article but it is kinda funny how a##hole holdeer avoided or skipped around the bush on blevins questions. unless you did something major wrong you should have the opportunity to prove your coaching abilities at least in the universities eyes and the fans. but whoever hired holder was stupid,stupid,stupid!!. birdwell was great and thanks to pickens he resigned because of the way pickens wanted to run the athletics at osu. holder doesnt like anyone unless you got money or power. i know, cause i came up to him with a pictured poster of him and asked for his autograph for my young son and he snubbed me. any way osu better wake up and smell the roses before the end up at the bottom of the rung.
Yeah Bill Self will leave Kansas for OK St. Dream on!how dillusional can you be. I hear Mike Krzyzewski is going to go back to Army because he once coached and went to School there and they may have an opening. You don't climb the ladder to or near the top of the profession and jump off for nothing
This is by far the best OSU article Berry has ever written. He hit this right on the head. Everybody wants to talk about fairness and giving Sean another year...then fire him if it doesn't work. Well, guess what. That would be a year wasted! Holder knew the leadership wasn't there, the presence wasn't there and there are tons of undisputable occassions that are evidence to this fact. It wasn't going to get better people. Regardless of what you want to say about Pickens and Holder, this was the best decision for OSU basketball. Not being able to discipline your players off the court, not being able to recruit the right kind of players, not showing up for your own practices, allowing players to come to practices and meetings late without reprecussions; these are all traits you DO NOT want in your head coach no matter which year they are in. Sean was a great assistant but somewhere on the road to becoming a head coach, he lost the fire that got him there.
Mike Holder and Boone had been talking amongst themselves way back in early January about Sean's dismisal. Bill Self was the first desired pick for a replacment Last weekend an immediate friend of Bill's and an OSU favorite alum got the nod that desire for a permanent residency in Stillwater could be achived. Mike has not and will not comment about a selection commitee being formed in order to allow and delay Bill Self to finsh his run in the final four.Boone and Mike have already discussed an unrefusable amount of money to offer Bill for leaving a dream job for a job at a beloved University he knows he can bring back to the former greatness of Iba.This deal is good as done precluding a possible National Championship with the jayhawks.
FWIW - Tramel is a columnist. He doesn't write sports articles, which are hard news. Baldwin and Cohen write articles. Tramel writes sports columns, which are opinion. They belong in the sports section, not the op-ed page. He finally has an opinion with which I agree.
Once again, Boone has called the shots with regard to OSU athletics. How unfortunate that OSU didn't have a "silent" benefactor who would simply donate and not dictate. OSU may have deeper pockets now, but I miss the pre-Boone OSU. Too late to turn back now.
For JB in OKC, idiot, regarding her friend, is a REALTOR, not realator. If your friend doesn't know the difference, your friend is in deep trouble. Or you yourself need to know how to spell.
I'm not an OSU fan but I like to see things stay competitive between the schools. From an outsider's perspective, I feel the same way about Sutton as I did about Callahan at Nebraska. Both schools deserved better. Why do some have this nepotistic view that son must follow daddy? OSU has built a strong basketball program over the years and has one of the toughest places to play in the country. OSU deserves a good coach. You could do much better than lil' Sutton.
Excellent article Berry....Leadership and lack of it will destroy any organization. This one was destined to fail before Eddy left. The wrong brother was given the keys to the Caddy...just my opinion
A story with lots of conclusory language and opinions and no real factual discussion. If you don't want to delve into specifics, fine, but this article should have been 1 paragraph, or not written at all. It said nothing but, "It wasn't working." And I'm an OU fan. Gotta fill the ole page, though, I guess.
Barry is trying to explain something and that requires him to voice opinions. He is a very good sports writer IMHO. Sean Sutton is coaching at the highest level of college athletics. He is being very well compensated for his pains. He would have to expect that these are the demands that go with the office. OSU is well knows as the "college of 2nd (sometimes 3rd) chances. With that go risks. Sean simply was not up to them.
typical....The Daily Oklahoman has a terrible problem with not keeping opinion on the editorial pages...This article is filled with them.........Foremost, OSU is going to be hardpressed to find someone (short of Bill Self) who will put more heart into the position. Sometimes, a persons work performance is a direct result of a less than supportive boss.
It is ludicrous to compare football coaches to basketball coaches. For one, we have never had proven national success in football. We have in basketball. 2- the article talks about displaying leadership, not about W's. Gundy does display leadership and the ability to rally the troops and get the most out of his players. I have seen some examples from Sean, but the fact that so many transfer or leave early doesn't bode well. Gundy will have to put up or shut up this year, and then we will see where Holder's allegiances lie.
Todd, at least we agree on Gundy and where Holder should lead his future. "there's the door pal"..."good luck at Boise State, Coach Gundy".
Sean however, well, I think at least one more year would have helped his record, but still, it's been a known fact that Holder has a personal conflict with the Sutton's.
Of course it was the right decision. OSU fans like to win and Sean wasn't getting the job done. It wasn't for lack of talent but, lack of Leadership. I too think it is time for GUNDY to be GONE.When Gundy assumed the head coaching duties at OSU, he had good talent left behind by Les Miles. Under Gundy's coaching, OSU has dropped from being a Big 12 contender to being last in the Big 12. Les went on to LSU and played for the National Championship.
You gotta live with life's punches. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Fortunately for me I don't have to win on my job just be effective, continually. But at OSU hoops, it's win or else.
This was NOT the right decision. Point blank.
If you were going to fire ANYBODY for dropping the ball they should fire Gundy as well. 3 mediocre seasons and a bowl win. Wow. But give Sean 2 years and he's out? Even with all of the goings-on behind the scenes you can't just cut ties like that. It's class-less.
Sean's problems stemmed from his crap-players. Players who tried to play streetball tactics instead of running the proven offense/defense scheme the Sutton's are known for. You could tell by watching OSU this year that something dramatic had changed. Sutton's fault? Maybe. Maybe not.
Bottom line is, Holder should take his own words of "I'd do this job for free" and run with it. Or just fire himself.
I'm trading my orange and black for Texas burnt orange.
Yesterday's debacle in Stillwater pushed me over the edge and I'm fed up with how things are run there now.
I hope the Sutton's will bring another team back to OSU and whip the SNOT out of them.
I dont know why everyone is getting after Gundy? We have 2 postseason wins, back to back, in a tough Big 12 conference and everyone thinks he should be fired? Everyone knows were not a football school, so stop doing all that talk like we are! We are a basketball school, and the past season have been very dissapointing. What has Sean done to be a good coach? 3 first round NIT losses? Thats good. The 19 game losing streak on the road, wow he really should stay! Holder made a good and smart move by doing this.
Thanks to all the fans who have supported me. I will be at Joes tonight and my dad and I would like to tip a few back with everyone who wants to come. I will pick up the tab with the money I got on my buyout.
Barry, just the link between the mentioning of Hargis and the "not working out" theme and an example. That's all. Hope it does work out. Where does the President fit in all of this?
This lifetime OSU fan is disappointed in Mike Holder. HE should "resign". I don't understand the difference in treatment between Sean Sutton and Mike Gundy. Gundy's record (on and off the field) certainly isn't great, yet he gets an extension. But, my opinion doesn't count. So, I wish the Sean Sutton family all the best, and hope Sean gets the recognition he deserves somewhere else.
Actually, $343.33 because they assessed a $10.00 fee for my choosing to end the madness immediately by paying electronically on the spot. By the way, the letter demanded I contact them immediately as if I was avoiding them (this after my record with them showed on time payments). Look out OSU.
Recently, I finished paying a car note with BOK, Tulsa, Hargis's bank. I got to the end of the payment book (which thanked me and offered to serve me again) and with my last payment asked for a lien release. Three months later, I got a letter from them stating that they hadn't been able to reach me (the letter did) and that I still owed them $333.33 to close the account. I called and they told me the customer (me) should have known it was a 36 month contract and there were 35 payments in the payment book. When I asked about their policy, the nice young lady had the company response ready that I should have known and if I had a complaint to write a letter. I paid the $333.33.
Thank you for avoiding the conspiracy theories and speculation Tramel. Thank you for pointing out the obvious truth that everyone has seemed to ignore.
Leaving OSU is the best thing that could have happened to Sean Sutton in the long run. If he's a good coach he will prove it moving forward; if he's not he'll prove that too and go into some other line of work. But, no matter what he did at OSU he would always be Eddie's son and under the thumb of Pickens. I'm an OU fan but I still wish Sean Sutton well down the road.
Hmmm. A premature employment termination surrounded by some mystery and too many unexplained absences. Folks, OSU (as any employer) isn't going to talk about the "medical" issues that may have contributed to Eddie's I mean Sean's employment status.
i'm an ou fan that likes osu basketball when they aren't playing ou. from the ou fan perspective i hoped osu would keep sean forever. from the wanting osu to do good all but a couple days a year perspective i thought he needed to go. i never understood why he was hired in the first place. what were his credentials other then being eddie's son? i wonder who t. boone wants for the next coach. he certainly has the bucks to get a good one. good luck pokes.
Right Burt. All those wins, Sweet 16's, Final Fours, conference titles, and refurbished/rejuvenated GIA really stunk the place up. Personally, I just couldn't stand all that success during the Sutton years. I much preferred the Paul Hansen/Leonard Hamilton years when nobody came to the games, nobody cared and Gallagher was still a 1938 band box.
Poor Sean. All he had to do to prove he has leadership skillS was to scream out in a press confererence, "I'M A MAN!" and that would have saved his bacon.
Hmmm....Another OSU coach had a couple of mediocre seasons and some player troubles yet got himself a contract extension before the season ended. I guess Holder had to get rid of Sean now because had they had a great season next year (which I think they would have) he couldn't have booted him then. Perhaps Corey Williams saw how tight of a grip T Boone and Holder had on the leash and bolted because of that? I guess we'll never know. I personally think Sean should have gotten one more year but hey maybe $$ will draw a big name in and all will be forgiven.
this is a great article. i am glad people maybe now can realize that there has been absolutely no structure or leadership in the program...... time to freshen/liven things up. very admirable decision by mr. holder.
Thanks Berry Tramel! There's obviously more than what meets the eye to every decision. Holder knows what fans see and think - he would have to have reasonable cause to fire S.Sutton after 2 years, apparently he did.
The program lacked the discipline needed to compete, on the court and off. in my opnion a coach establishes discipline as soon as he takes the job in order for the program to be successful. Coach Sean found that out the hard way. Bill self to OSU??? Wait and see how the hawks do this weekend, lose and the fans on Mount oreo do complain loudly ask Roy Williams.
Are you seriously still talking about Bill Self????? AND ROY.... Based on your logic, OU should fire Stoops. Every program has off the court issues at some time. Players leave early and players transfer. Focusing on that is a cop out!!!
Congratulations Brenda-You are officially the 500th person to point out the fact that, despite his ties to OSU, Bill Self would be taking a step down to leave KU and come to OSU. Thanks for for the cutting-edge insight.
I'm not saying Self won't come to OSU (only he knows that), but I am saying that he would be nuts to leave a program like Kansas (national powerhouse, rich tradition, final four this year, etc.) for OSU. I know he has a lot of connections to Oklahoma (Edmond Memorial HS, OSU, Oral Roberts, etc.), but please...
That's awesome that you can't spell your friend's job title. My friend is a used furniture salesman in Stillwater and he said Bob Knight was in looking at ottomans. Knight to OSU, you heard it here first!!!
C'mon, Berry! You believed all of that hogwash out of Holder's mouth! I thought Dean Blevins is the only media member who asked Holder the tough questions. Holder outright lied about several things in his press conference, not the leasat of which was to say that they mutually agreed and that Sean didn't want to come back. By the way, I have this bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you!
My friend is a realator in Stillwater and he said Bill Self's wife made arrangements to look at houses today and tomorrow. Self to OSU, you heard it hear first!!!!
Thank you Berry for this article. The Tulsa World chose to write nothing but anti-Holder, conspiracy filled, cry-baby articles. I wish Sean well - but he wasn't getting it done. I think the most interesting question and response yesterday was "have you spoken with Eddie today?" "No - Sean has to stand on his own two feet today". That says it all about how personal everyone is making this. If you really think Sean deserved one or two more years - do you think another school will hire him? Another school that is equivalent to OSU? No they will not.
I wish Sean well. As tough as it is right now for him he will undoubtedly be better off not working for Mike Holder and Boone Pickens. I find President Hargis's comments typical educrat mumble-jumble. The president of a major state university is like being the queen of England. The get rolled out for the cermonies, then they crawl back into their plush offices. I respect Mike Holder's record as a coach and he is a great fund raiser. But as AD I think he is out of place and out of step. He needs to go into the private sector and start a fund-raising company where he can continue to smooze the big bucks.
This sums it up. "Guard JamesOn Curry skipped his senior season to enter the NBA draft, and a turbulent offseason followed. In a three-month span, three Oklahoma State players were arrested. Immediately before the school year began, projected starter Kenny Cooper decided to transfer (ESPN, 2008)."
As a longtime Sooner, I don't usually comment on(or read,for that matter) many aricles on OSU sports,but I grew up listening on the radio to OSU(OK A&M back in the day when I was a kid)basketball under Coach Iba,was always a big Eddie Sutton fan,and had great respect for the program under their regimes - though I wanted my Sooners to beat the teams under coach Sutton as badly as ever. I have watched a lot of coaches coach over the years and somehow I just didn't see Sean getting it done as a head coach for whatever reason. Trammel's article,I think, nails it and I have rethought my initial reaction that the termination was premature and hasty( after just 2 years). Leadership is an intangible quality that in many cases you either have or you don't and Sean apparently didn't demonstrate it sufficiently in his tenure as Cowboy basketball head man.He is still young and can still have a future somewhere else,but only time will tell.
I agree somewhat, I think there was something lacking in his coaching. I think that it will be difficult to replace him now that they only gave him 2 seasons, which isn't long enough to establish anything. What I don't understand is how they keep Gundy and even extend his contract. They keep dreaming of football being supreme like OU, throw that money at the basketball program instead!
Son goes down on Sutton era Surname is Sean's... 04/02/2008 STILLWATER — Eddie Sutton thought he did the right thing five years ago when he insisted — rather vehemently to Oklahoma State officials — that his son...
Dumping Sutton so soon sets a dangerous precedent in... 04/02/2008 Sean Sutton came as close to being a head coach as any assistant could when he worked for his father. He still didn't know everything about being the main...
On the job training Holder could be in for a rough... 04/02/2008 If Oklahoma State were looking for a golf coach, there would be no greater expert than athletic director Mike Holder. But the Cowboys are looking for a...
Cowboys plan to stick around for new coach 04/02/2008 Oklahoma State freshman James Anderson, the team's leading scorer, said Tuesday evening that he is not considering transferring despite coach Sean Sutton's...
Page says he remains 100 percent with OSU 04/02/2008 Pawnee guard and Oklahoma State signee Keiton Page remains "100 percent” committed to playing at OSU despite Sean Sutton's resignation on Tuesday. Page,...
Sean is ushered out after 2-year, hot-and-cold... 04/02/2008 STILLWATER — Saying he thinks Oklahoma State can do better, Oklahoma State athletic director Mike Holder closed the book on the Sutton era of Cowboy...
Coaching change puts OSU at disadvantage New hire... 04/02/2008 How does changing coaches affect recruiting? College basketball programs often sign a player or two in April to fill out the roster. Now that Sean Sutton no...
Suttons gave boost to Cowboy fortunes Eddie, Sean... 04/02/2008 STILLWATER — When Eddie and Sean Sutton arrived at Oklahoma State University in 1990, Cowboy basketball had been to one NCAA Tournament in 25 years, had...
The reluctant AD: Holder didn't want job Pickens... 04/03/2008 STILLWATER — The man who sealed Sean Sutton's fate as Oklahoma State's basketball coach never wanted to be an athletic director. Never gave it any thought,...
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2. We have more talent on this team than EVER! Two McDonald's AA, 5 star Obi, Big time recruits in Harris and Moses. Sean and his staff CAN NOT develop talent. Look at Rick Barnes. He lost the best freshman possibly in history and is better the next year?! With 2 stud sophomores that keep improving, 1 junior, and improving freshman. He even developed that goofy white kid atchley!
3. No way we miss the tournament next year. None. I could lead them to the NCAA's. Bottomline, Holder had to get rid of Sean now or else fire him after another poor season, albeit in the big dance, but still not good enough for OSU.
4. Fact. We have one of the best arenas in the country and great fans. Fact. Forbes ranked OSU in the top 15 profitable programs 2 years ago. Well why didnt we show up this year? Because the product on the court is lousy. Attendance was disgraceful. Check that profitability now. If I am a business decision maker like Holder is. This alone is reason to can Sean.
5. We will get an unbelievable coach. Guarenteed. It might not be a "big" name. I bet it will be, but it will be worst case a remarkable Sean Miller, a "2007 National Coach of the year" Tony Bennett, or a "was good enough to replace Billy Donovan at Florida" Anthony Grant. All are major upgrades and we WILL land someone of this caliber.
Now, I am sick and tired of hearing HALF of you saying he deserved more time. He didnt win. He couldnt win on the road. He was awful against OU. He couldnt fill an arena. He couldnt land some big time recruits this year. TC's kid brother, 5 star recruit Daniel Orton said Sean is "weird" and he will not go to OSU. Sean did not deserve anything. He is not a good coach for OSU. Period.
Now, moving on. Good luck with the hire. It will be a major improvement.
Go Pokes!
Don Boyd
Sean however, well, I think at least one more year would have helped his record, but still, it's been a known fact that Holder has a personal conflict with the Sutton's.
If you were going to fire ANYBODY for dropping the ball they should fire Gundy as well. 3 mediocre seasons and a bowl win. Wow. But give Sean 2 years and he's out? Even with all of the goings-on behind the scenes you can't just cut ties like that. It's class-less.
Sean's problems stemmed from his crap-players. Players who tried to play streetball tactics instead of running the proven offense/defense scheme the Sutton's are known for. You could tell by watching OSU this year that something dramatic had changed. Sutton's fault? Maybe. Maybe not.
Bottom line is, Holder should take his own words of "I'd do this job for free" and run with it. Or just fire himself.
I'm trading my orange and black for Texas burnt orange.
Yesterday's debacle in Stillwater pushed me over the edge and I'm fed up with how things are run there now.
I hope the Sutton's will bring another team back to OSU and whip the SNOT out of them.