State once competed for conference championships and made runs at the Final Four and packed crazy crowds into its venerable arena. And no one believed it would ever end.
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Then it did. For almost 20 years, Kansas State basketball went dormant. Two NCAA Tournaments in 18 years. No NCAA wins.
That's a handy history lesson as we analyze why Sean Sutton no longer coaches Oklahoma State basketball. The Cowboys rode high for 15 years under Eddie Sutton. You know all the details, how a proud basketball tradition was reborn, and a fan base embraced a sport like few other campuses have done.
But it's not perpetual. It's not automatic. It's not self-sustaining. In the same way that K-State hoops could derail, so could O-State hoops. And it's not easy to get back on the track.
In 16 home games this season, OSU averaged 8,647 fans through the turnstiles. That's 5,000 shy of capacity. Of course, skipping games against Prairie View and East Tennessee State could be considered a sign of good taste.
But in eight Big 12 games, OSU averaged 10,697 fans. That's 3,000 shy of capacity.
Only one game all season, Bedlam, was full. Kansas drew 1,633 less than capacity. Texas A&M and Texas were 3,000 shy. Baylor and Colorado were each more than 5,000 fans shy of full.
Since Gallagher-Iba Arena's expansion in 2000, it hasn't always been packed. But it never has been like this, and that's got to be a concern to OSU ticket-sellers.
The fans were voting.
"Empty seats played a role,” Cowboy athletic director Mike Holder admitted Tuesday in announcing Sutton's firing.
My emails can be a decent barometer of public opinion. OSU fans aren't afraid of voicing their views. Wednesday, OSU fans ran about 2-to-1 in support of Holder's move.
But their voices already had been heard. They voted with their lack of presence at Gallagher-Iba.
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Jacob,
Don't you ever get tired of the same old tired drivel and the 'bandwagon' fan comments. If that were the case, how do you explain the consistency of OU outdrawing OSU over a 70-year period, even back to the days OU was playing in a 54,000 seat stadium in the 60s? It is called denial. It is called rationalization. For you, it is called stupidity. Last time I checked the color of money paid for tickets was the same for alums and 'bandwagoners'....Of course, I realize for someone who is a graduate of Silo Tech that is a tough economic fact which is difficult to grasp. Now, get back to work and mow my lawn.
I like Danny. He is fun to laugh at. I mean, a part of me feels bad laughing at him because it is kind of like laughing at a retarded kid. But, you just can't help but laugh regardless.
Danny, that was NOT an expression. That was a line in an Ogden Nash poem that was a play on words from the original expression. If you are going to look up references in Wikipedia between posts, at least try to read it all before you display your ignorance.
Anyway...it has been fun, making fun of you. What is it you like to call it? Smack? But since you obviously can't keep up with me intellectually, I'll just have to say....SAYONARA! GO POKES!!
Danny...You disappoint!! You totally did not catch the meaning! I didn't say anything about the wonderful work he is doing at OSU. I was referring to what he flushes AFTER meals and drinks!!! That education you got at Cameron is a Big Plus!
I am aware of teh 2 meanings. It is just that the meet meaning came about in the 1600's! The depression was a few HUNDRED years after that...NINCOMPOOP!
Randy, are you aware of the two meanings? this expression actually used to be 'We can't make both ends meat'.it originated during the depression (or at some distant time in the past when times were tough) they had to resort, when they made their sausage, to stuffing more filler into one end than the other and meat in the end you could more easily untie to make it look like it was all sausage.
: : Then, over time,, the expression turned and people started thinking of it as meaning 'both ends meet(ing). Before you act like a d-bag atleast do all the research.
FYI Danny the brain: The "meat" interpretation is spurious. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the phrase originally referred to making the two ends of the year meet. (Think fiscal years.) French has a similar phrase, "joindre les deux bouts de l'an."
To blame Mike Holder for this train wreck is to ignore who set this thing in motion originally. The guy who started this is Holder's predecessor by naming Sean "Head Coach Whatever". If they truly wanted him to be the OSU head coach - then he should have been encouraged to go to a mid-major and learn his craft and establish a proven track record as a head coach. Then come back. As it is now, the guy who started this promptly up and left so he was not around for the crash, no matter how good Sean becomes - he will never be able to come back. Remember, every player Sean has - he recruited. Every one. No "big man" - his fault. Not enough quality players - his fault. McDonalds All American who has showed up for only 5 games in 2.5 years - his fault. Three NIT 1 and out appearances - his fault. Media love child - your fault.
Gehra, is that really your name speaking of drinking beer, looks like someone close to you may have had one too many the day you were named. Its like when I try to say your name, there is bread stuck to the top of my mouth, geeeeeickrrraa. I love all the insults, but that does not take away from the fact about osu being a second class, and you geeeeeickraaaa being totally classless. You wont find any kind of rocket scientist here you are right, you wont find anykind of orange blinders either, get a life osu bashers your school isnt that great.
If the fans were voting on Sean, what does it say about Mike Gundy that T. Boone Stadium hasn't had a single sellout--not even for Bedlam--despite having far fewer seats than old Lewis Field had?
Berry, Why don't you write a story about the comspicuous lack of fans at Lloyd Noble. That place is a ghost town unless they're playing OSU or Texas.
Of course, Berry can't write unflattering articles about OU because he'd be biting the hand that feeds him.
James H - quit complaining about ticket prices - the price of Big Macs has also risen over the years but you still buy those by the truckload don't you? Come on - tell the truth.
And the OU game wasn't full - it was close but there were still plenty of empties. The home game against Texas was pitiful - the general admission sections had empty seats for about the top 30 rows. I've never seen a home conference game with attendance that poor. What was even worse that night was the performance on the floor. It was only a 2 point loss but the OSU offense was too painful to watch. One shot clock violation after another with perimeter passing until a 3 was launched with 1 second left or the clock expired. That's wonderful coaching isn't it?
James in Mariette is incorrect. My family have held bball season tickets since before expansion, going back to he late 80's. There are plenty of OSU grads and athletic supporters to fill GIA at the current prices if the product is good. The product under Sean was painful but for the KU game this year, and there was plenty of blue at that game. The bottom was losing to an average OU team away, and then at home before a packed orange house. If the Pokes were a top 20 team contending for a big 12 title it would have been packed. Also, a little advice to Mike Holder: book Saturday afternoon games and fewer Monday and Wednesday nights. We get the worst conference schedule every year in this regard. If the next coach wins this storm will pass quickly like all Oklahoma weather.
Barry, Really like your writing, etc:however, you missed the real reason for empty seats.....Money. Thing are relatively tight for the average Joe/family and prices just keep going up and the value of the dollar keeps going down.
I had season tickets to OSU bball since 1992. I turned them down this year for two reasons: 1) another price increase, and 2) the team was going to suck. Okay, and one more reason...I knew I would watch almost all of the games on TV. I missed only two. Oh, and one more...the price of gas. Okay, so that's four reasons.
Gehra - Danny loves OU, so he can say whatever giibberish he wants and be cool...so he thinks. Robert and Gehra - He went to Cameron, you won't be finding a rocket scientist in him.
OSU football game average attendence=38,6700. OU football game average attendence=82,000. OU football game average attendence of bandwagon fans=44,000. 82-44=36,000 actual OU grads and true fans.
Are you kidding me?! Mike Holder raised the ticket prices for a team that went to the NIT last year. He raised them so much so that I know more than a few season ticket holders for over 20 years didn't renew. Holy crap we knew this wasn't going to be the est year for the team and then Holder goes and raises the ticket prices. Give me a break, Holder wanted Sutton out and has pretty much done all he can to force him out.
Wow, didn't know the average attendance was that bad. Kansas sells out a bigger arena (16,500 or so) for games against Our Lady of __________ and Wrongway State. No wonder Self won't even sniff at this job.
I have been an OSU basketball fan all of my life. I have my bachelors degree there and live in Tulsa. I for one would like to say that over the years i has supported EDDIE not the team. Even when Eddies teams werent doing so well, I still made it to the games to show support to a coach that has done so much for my university. Sean is not the leader he could be. Hes not ready to take a program like OSU and be what his Dad once was. We need a coach the fans can back...the players will follow, but the coach is a big part of it. OSU you find a coach I can be proud of and I will return to the stands...until then I would rather wash my car than watch my once great team lose another one to a team that wouldnt have stood a chance just a few short years ago. Find us a good one Holder, please search well! Bill Self...if you read this...PLEASE PLEASE come home hehe..ok maybe not..no but really please?
you could use some "grand education" yourself. the phrase is "make ends MEET" and not "make ends MEAT". oh well.. i am sure you were too busy drinking beer and making out with your cousin to have found any time to learn ENGLISH. keep your opinions to yourself.
My family have been O-State men's basketball season ticket holders since 1988. Through good and bad we have continued to support the Cowboys. However, at some point you have to realize that not everyone can afford the continual increase in ticket prices. Many people who have season tickets are just your "everyday, hard working people" who enjoy a college sporting event. I drive 2 hours one way to enjoy the basketball games and I've done that for 10 years, just because I enjoy college basketball. While I know it costs a lot of money to fund programs that are successful, I however don't think you should take that out on the fans. We have supported the game, but the athletic department hasn't
supported us. The best fans are those who save their pennies to buy tickets and take their children to OSU events to show them how great it is to be a Cowboy! Deep pockets doesn't make you a true Cowboy!
Perhaps the lack of attendance at games this season was a result of increased ticket prices (especially for the students)and not that of dissapointment with the coaching of the program.
A wealthy very very very old man, right? who knows what is really going on up stairs! There is only one Jerry Jones people. osu has as many bandwagoners as OU does, the fans prove it, and the fans are right who wants to watch a losing team? Is it that Lubbock is too far to drive for osu fans? Gas money the issue? Isnt that why osu fans went to osu is for the grand education so they could make ends meat? Do all of you realize that you could put all of Boon stadium in the new stadium at Dallas? on one side I might add. I highly doubt that all 40 something thousand of you all would drive down to watch the Red Raiders hook it up with your team. Maybe Boon will start giving away free tickets, oh wait! he raised the season ticket price already didnt he? All of these questions are meant to enlighten the osu fan and make him or her realize that if its getting by like it is, then why mess it up?
So they really think this football game with Texas Tech will draw fans? They are headed for an embarrassment. It is the whole program. If T-Bone is going to run it--he needs to run it and let the greedy handle the oil business. He has the resources but it will be a full time job. A half-a$$ effort will get you what you watched last season, surely a wealthy man knows that.
As a 20 year ticket holder I went to half the usual number of games this year. Why waste time going to see bad basketball. That's the general thinking of ticket holders I know and they are hard core OSU. Many of the people complaining about Sean's replacement have never had time invested attending games, or money in tickets and donations. They are the loudest complainers I have heard.
Dead-on BT. I'd also add in your discussion with the Holder haters that as far as I'm concerned Sean's time clock started ticking when the Suttons pressured OSU to name him associate HC / HC designate in order to assure a smooth transition and continued success.
Hmm Barry. Not sure that K-State is the best example of things that go off track. I never knew that it was on track to begin with! Why don't you compare the state of OSU hoops to OU football in the early 90s? Of course, one has to wonder - does that make Sean Sutton like Gary Gibbs, Howie Schnellenberger, or John Blake? And who gets to play the role of Bob Stoops? That seemed like a pretty quick turnaround...
Lynn - not sure where you're going with that. I hate to defend Berry. But I actually think you're saying the same thing. "The majority show up if the team is winning and have other things to do if the team is losing." Clearly the fans (the paying fans are the ones that matter, not the casual-catch a game on TV sometimes fans) found other things to do. Sean was partially voted out by this "other things to do." When you'd rather wash your truck than go to the game (and you've already paid for your tickets), I think you've sent a pretty clear signal of your enthusiasm (or lack thereof) for the program. I'm with Berry. While Sean may have gotten things turned back around, the signs were there of a quick spiral down to K-State land from which there may or may not be a quick fix. Lets hope it's not too late now.
Nice to see that Danny is on here still making people mad about stupid crap! Nice post Barry, I am sure that Danny doesn't know how to look up anything past Wikipedia. Nice posts to you to Randy. I like the way you think.
Berry, you over-rate fans. There's just a comparitively small number of fans who follow any team or program closely. The majority show up if the team is winning and have other things to do if the team is losing. That's the extent of their passion for the sport. And its like that everywhere. I'd bet there's not a pool of 1,000 fans who care deeply enough to send you an email. The other 9,000 or so that are at the games view sports in a passive manner, its a small part of their lives.
Sean Sutton resigned on Monday as head coach of the OSU basketball team. by BRYAN TERRY, THE OKLAHOMAN
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Thank you for joining our conversations on NewsOK.com. We encourage your discussions but ask that you stay within the bounds of our terms and conditions. Please help us by reporting comments that violate these guidelines. To review our rules of engagement, go to Commenting and posting policy.
Leave a comment. Log in below or sign up (it's free).Editor's note: It is not our intent to offer comments on crime or fatality stories.
Don't you ever get tired of the same old tired drivel and the 'bandwagon' fan comments. If that were the case, how do you explain the consistency of OU outdrawing OSU over a 70-year period, even back to the days OU was playing in a 54,000 seat stadium in the 60s? It is called denial. It is called rationalization. For you, it is called stupidity. Last time I checked the color of money paid for tickets was the same for alums and 'bandwagoners'....Of course, I realize for someone who is a graduate of Silo Tech that is a tough economic fact which is difficult to grasp. Now, get back to work and mow my lawn.
: : Then, over time,, the expression turned and people started thinking of it as meaning 'both ends meet(ing). Before you act like a d-bag atleast do all the research.
Of course, Berry can't write unflattering articles about OU because he'd be biting the hand that feeds him.
And the OU game wasn't full - it was close but there were still plenty of empties. The home game against Texas was pitiful - the general admission sections had empty seats for about the top 30 rows. I've never seen a home conference game with attendance that poor. What was even worse that night was the performance on the floor. It was only a 2 point loss but the OSU offense was too painful to watch. One shot clock violation after another with perimeter passing until a 3 was launched with 1 second left or the clock expired. That's wonderful coaching isn't it?
you could use some "grand education" yourself. the phrase is "make ends MEET" and not "make ends MEAT". oh well.. i am sure you were too busy drinking beer and making out with your cousin to have found any time to learn ENGLISH. keep your opinions to yourself.
supported us. The best fans are those who save their pennies to buy tickets and take their children to OSU events to show them how great it is to be a Cowboy! Deep pockets doesn't make you a true Cowboy!