The guilt trip will come soon, either about 6 o'clock tonight or in a couple of years, depending on how Judge Marsha Pechman rules in the SuperSonics trial.
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When the Sonics come to Oklahoma City, most everyone west of Spokane and lots of folks east of there will look at OKC and quote Gomer Pyle.
Shame, shame, shame!
Shame on Oklahoma City for swiping the Sonics from the loving arms of Seattle. Shame on Oklahoma City for not waiting on an expansion team.
Don't buy it. Don't listen to it. Don't let anyone spoil your celebration. Don't let anyone make you feel guilty.
Because here's what major-league ballteams do.
They move. Always have, always will.
Of the 122 major-league franchises in the four historic team sports, 40 have relocated, a total of 52 times. And if you discount the 24 expansion teams that have sprouted since 1992, it's 38 relocations in 98 franchises.
There is no divine right to keeping a franchise. A team is not intellectual property, no matter how attached a populace grows. Sports are big business. They've always been big business, in this century and the previous century and even the century before that.
The original Baltimore Orioles moved to New York in 1903 and eventually became the Yankees. The original Milwaukee Brewers moved to St. Louis in 1902 and became the Browns, then half a century later filled the void in Baltimore.
Eight franchises moved in the '50s, 11 in the '60s, nine in the '70s, seven in the '80s and eight in the '90s. Every city left behind put up a fuss, and railed against the scoundrel owner who engineered the move, and claimed the world is unjust.
But franchises aren't forever. Los Angeles has lost three pro football teams in the last 50 years. The Chargers moved to San Diego. The Raiders back to Oakland. The Rams to St. Louis.
If the NFL can leave Greater Los Angeles, where's the calamity in the NBA leaving Seattle?
The Seattle crowd likes to warn Oklahoma City that if Clay Bennett can put the screws to Seattle, he will do the same thing to his hometown.
Maybe. Maybe not. Frankly, I'm not all that interested in a history lesson from a city that built a new palace for the Seahawks and a new palace for the Mariners and then wants to start lecturing other cities, warning them about the dangers of giving into disgruntled franchise owners.
I understand the anguish over losing a franchise. Most of America does. Only Indiana cheered when the Colts left Baltimore. Only Tennessee celebrated when the Oilers left Houston. George Shinn made few friends beyond Bourbon Street when he took his Hornets out of Charlotte.
But sports fans have short memories. For all the despair over the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn, baseball took to LA and LA took to baseball immediately, and the Los Angeles Dodgers quickly became a brand to rival all but the Yankees.
It seemed nutty for the NHL to leave Minneapolis in 1993 for the football-mad Sun Belt, but who today can imagine hockey without a team in Dallas? Who declares the Ravens, a decade after fleeing Cleveland, are invalid in Baltimore?
Nationally, no one seems to be paying much attention anyway. Their take is elementary: Oh, the Sonics are leaving for Oklahoma City? That must mean Bennett is a sorry-dog owner.
But did you catch ESPN's Stuart Scott during the NBA Draft coverage? He said the "vote” to determine the Sonics' status could come later that night. There is no vote, and it wasn't true anyway. Scott even asked Jeff Van Gundy if the Sonics could make the playoffs next season, which means one of ESPN's primary NBA hosts doesn't have a clue about anything regarding Seattle basketball.
When the Sonics come to Oklahoma City, outrage and lament will reign for about 15 minutes. Then everyone will move on.
The rest is up to us. Fill the Ford Center and support the NBA and critics will scram in search of another franchise threatening to move. And there will be one to fit that description, because that's what franchises do.
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Someone needs to tell the pinhead that wrote this article that Seattle also built a palace for the Sonics, and a mere eight years later they were whining about another new stadium.
This article is nothing but a justification for devious behaviour by owners taking Oklahoma for a ride, and yet Oklahoma is so excited for this team that they're letting themselves be a screwed over as Seattle was. If not more so. It's like a kid getting a new car his paying for, too inexperienced to realize the cost.
"I think the rest of the country is wise enough to know this is not OKC's doing, but the choices of one scumbag."...Actually two scumbags...Nickels and Chopp
Congradulations to the OKC fans...I mean that. NBA basketball is a great experience and I wish you many years of happiness with the team.
I want to make a quick point that so much has been made about OKC vs. Seattle. Let me express as a Sonics fan and a Washington resident that I have nothing against the city or the fans in OKC. Hell, I don't even have anything against Mr. Bennet and his ownership group. I'll admit that I'm upset that the Sonics are leaving and that it seems that they never truly wanted the team to stay in Seattle, but I don't hold it against them. I can't say that I would have done any different if I were in their shoes.
I will say that I'm a bit concerned with all of the political wrangling that went on with this who deal. The NBA, Mr. Bennet and particularly the City of Seattle have proven that the NBA and its owners care very little about the actual fans and only about money. I know its a business...I get that, but knowing that doesn't make me any less upset when my team leaves town because they didn't get a shiny new stadium.
As a fan I sad the team is gone, but their is nothing I can do about it but accept it and move on. I did all I could as a fan to keep the team here, I went to games, I bought hats and jerseys, I wrote city and state officals to plead the case of the fans, but I'm just a fan. All I can do is mourn the loss of my beloved Sonics and hope that the OKC fans never have to feel this way. Like Mr. Tramel said, any sports team can pick up and move at any time, so all I can do is say, treat the team right and don't give them any reason to leave.
Yes, sports teams move when the fans stop supporting them and the owners can make more money in another city. The difference here is 1) the fans were still supporting the team, 2) money wasn't the motivating factor, and 3) the sleazy way Bennett went about stealing the team.
Do you think Bennett looked at any other cities, got bids and chose the location that made the most economic sense? Of course not. It wasn't about business, it was only about his ego.
Bennett's goal from the beginning was to get the team to OKC, regardless of how much money it cost. In fact, he intentionally lost money to make his case. And Darth Stern was in on the scam the whole time.
you are a pathetic journalist and member of society, because others have commited wrong acts in the past that means its OK (notice the lame pun) for you to also do wrong? Enjoy your stolen team, can't wait to see the ownership go bankrupt in 5 years after your sorry excuse for a city and state stops to support it.
Here it comes, although the Mayor’s office said the seating in the Ford was “adequate” (in response as to why we aren’t adding any seats to the Ford and actually decreasing seating by 500 after the “improvements”...dropping us from #14 to #24). The Mayor said the following:
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http://www.newsok.com/article/3265341
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Now that Seattle lawsuit has been settled, the NBA is on its way here to stay (July 3, 2008)
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“I think somebody is going to have to pinch me to think this day is really here,” Cornett said. “If I had a concern — and my tongue is not in my cheek — I’m concerned WE DON’T HAVE ENOUGH SEATS in that arena. I think the season ticket sales are going to blow the roof off the building.”
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They are already gearing up for the demands for a new arena (due to inadequate seating) and we haven’t even started making the improvements or collected one penny of the $100 million yet. Maybe they can alter the plans and increase seating somehow. Otherwise, we are flushing $100 million down the improved Ford toilets.
No, the fans should not feel guilty for getting a team. They just live in the city and are reacting naturally. Clay Bennett should feel overwhelming shame. Lying to anyone that would listen, while e-mails contradict every word he says. I think the rest of the country is wise enough to know this is not OKC's doing, but the choices of one scumbag.
Honestly you shouldn't feel guilt for getting a team. However the "journalist" who wrote this article should be feeling guilt for shoddy research. Key Arena still is being paid for, is only 10 years old, and was the FIRST arena in Seattle supported by tax payer money. Bennet LIED about trying to keep the team there going so far as the water down the product (have fun that first year by the way) and not allowing the players to do local media. They moved their radio broadcast from an all sports station with a high powered signal to a conservative talk radio station with no sports with a weaker signal. So no, I wish the fans nothing but joy with ther new team. They should feel no guilt. But the "journalist" who writes for this paper, owned by people who are related to Clay (in-laws if I remember correctly), should feel shame. And so should Clay Bennett.
The Seattle Sonics arena was completely gutted and rebuilt from scratch to the team’s specifications just ten years ago. The City of Seattle has not even completed paying for what was essentially a brand new building just ten years ago. The idea that the City of Seattle has not supported the Sonics is hogwash and you frankly sir you do not know what you are talking about. This is a failure of the NBA and the Sonics organization and the City of Seattle and its citizens are getting screwed as a result.
Jill now you say you don't criticize us fans, your a liar in past posts your were heartless and rude with us Seattle fans. You made statements how we didn't support the team and we didn't deserve a team. Now you try to play all high and mighty. Your as bad as Bennett and a liar just like him.
I agree david, I think that the lease should be changed a bit to make it more profitable for the owners. I don't think that it's Bennetts fault that the lease sucks, I just think that he should of thought of that before he bought the team. I also think that 2 years is a long time, and I would be curious on the BOG's vote if a new arena deal is put in place during the next 2 years, and how they might reconsider the move, and also expansion. I'm hoping that this is what happens, as I think we got a good sports rivalry brewing here, how cool would a OKC/Seattle NBA finals be, everyone would watch that.
Jill - Thanks for the reminder. I agree - even though it is shorter - it's still bitter to lose something. We wish you all well and I apologize for anyone directing negative comments your way. I'm a Midwestern by birth and I would never speak negatively about a place I haven't visited.
I might have to argue that Redmond might sue MS if there was a lease, with no buyout, and they tried to move. Gates would probably just reach in his pocket and throw out a billion dollars though to leave...lol...
Jesss, if I were the judge, I would do this... So Clay isn't forced to sell the team, the city has to help Clay in the last two years, since he will be losing money, but also enforcing the lease. This way Clay enforces the lease, but they will back off his jock and let him move in 2010 like he wants to. However, even Nickels said it, "two years can open doors." Nickels is hoping something happens in the two years that makes Clay stay, even though Clay won't want to. My personal opinion is that the only reason the city wants the lease enforced is to try and get something done that will make Clay sell, or want to stay, or try and make him stay. So if I were the judge, I would be telling the city, that if he has to enforce the lease, the city has to help him, but that is just me.
I hear ya bob, MS put seattle on the map. I grew up in Redmond, went to Redmond High school, and boy did MS sure change our little town around. When I was a kid we used to have Deer in our yard every morning, that was about 1 mile from where microsoft sits now. I agree though, if the Sonics leave, Seattle will be fine, if MS left, that might be the end of us.....
Can't you get online on an airplane?? I don't fly alot as I'm not a big fan, but you see it all the time in the movies. I saw an episode of the myth busters on discovery channel about just what your talking about, and they couldn't prove that it will bring a plane down, maybe you'll be safe.
Jesse, I was only joking! Clearly MS was a different company back then. But if they decided to move today, say to Chicago, or LA, or Miami, there would be no lawsuit by the city to force them to stay, even if there were a lease agreement to deal with. And if you don't think MS adds FAR more intangible value to the city's reputation than a sports franchise, you are sadly mistaken. (Even though MS isn't actually located in Seattle..most of the world has never heard of Redmond.)
James, we understand you completely, Seattle was in the same situation for the longest time up here in the far corner of the country, nobody paid any attention to us either, all we had was Boeing. I truly hope that OKC can pull the same thing off, and it's looks like you will, as I believe that the people of Oklahoma are outstanding people of great character. Lets just hope this all works out for both cities.
I will be flying when they post the ruling do any of you guys know if I sneak my cell phone on to check if that truly messes with plane or just all BS?
Microsoft was hardly the company it is today when he left New Mexico, I doubt that anyone there even noticed, or cared, and is hardly comparable to the Sonics leaving Seattle. Now if MS would of left after they achieved what they have, then there would of been a big stink.
Several of you have been complaining about the team "city shopping" or "arena shopping", looking for the best business deal. Several years ago, a major airlines was looking to relocate it's main maintenance facility. OKC was one of the bidders on this new facility. The city of OKC passed several incentives, tax breaks, low rent, etc., to get them to come here. I believe even the state of Oklahoma passed some legislation that would be an incentive. However, in the end, that airline relocated to Indianapolis because it offered them the best deal. Since then, OKC has worked it's butt to become a world class competitor for these kind of jobs. We citizens voted on and passed the Quality Jobs Act, which offers tremendous tax and finaincial incentives to create jobs here in Oklahoma. We now have a state of the arts Science and Mathematics prep school, run by the state. We have some of the world's best pharmasutical research companies located here. We are major league and are willing to support an NBA franchise. I am sorry that Seattle has lost out on this. However, any city that does not STAY competetive will lose out on these opportunities and jobs. If there is any failure, it is in the complancency of the local citizens and government. We here in Oklahoma have always been behind the eight ball, always fighting to better ourselves, never seeming to measure up. Well, now we do. If Seattle wants to compete, then it is time to "keep up with the Jones's" or in our case, Oklahomans.
I don't remember Bill Gates apologizing for moving his company from Albuquerque to Seattle! Is he a scumbag, too? Oh, wait, everyone already know BG is a scumbag...anyone using his Windows operating system, anyway!
"Why don't you understand that there are many TRUE fans in Seattle and they are very sad they are losing a team?? You are gaining a team - you should only be happy. I would think you could understand the sadness of Seattle. And claiming that you know the history of the team before Clay bought the team is just not believable - you didn't live here, so I am guessing that you have no idea what it's like to sit in KeyArena with 17,000 fans yelling during a double-overtime game in April when you have the worst record in the league. It's great." A lot of us have more compassion than you think. It just gets beaten down by people coming to an Oklahoma site throwing insults at us. Also, remember that three years ago we hosted the 18-64 Hornets, and sold 10,000 season tickets in a week. We sold 12,000 season tickets the next year. The city fell in love with the Hornets, and the Hornets owner led us to believe he returned the emotion. We saw a team that had Oklahoma City on it's jerseys win some seemingly impossible games over the likes of the Lakers and the Spurs. We saw Chris Paul turn a 7 point deficit ito a tie in a matter of seconds and win the game in overtime. We saw David West hit a winning buzzer beater with 0.2 seconds left. We sold out the house the last night they played here, and no one had the heart or the will the leave the building until long after the game was over, including Byron Scott and Aubrey McClendon. So we know a little bit about sadness and loss, although our history was much shorter. I criticize the politicians in Seattle, not the fans.
I would like to know from you though david, what exactly did our officials do wrong?? Remeber, Gorton is not an elected official, he is a lawyer, and a private citizen, not the city.
Anything that I've stated on here is just thoughts of mine on how I think things COULD turn out, not necessarily how it will. I do know that a Seattle Center renovation will get done, and as I said before, I'm CURIOUS as to how the NBA will react to this, and wonder how big of a hurry they will be to get out of Seattle then. I didn't say anything was for certain, expect that we already owe hundreds of millions of dollars for sports arenas already, some of which don't even exist anymore. That is really all I said.
Jesss two simple questions, and don't give me a long explination, actually answer me this... 1. Are you wrong about anything? 2. Are your officials wrong about anything in this trial? I mean ANYTHING?
David, clay knew he was going to loose that money before he bought the team. How is the city "bleeding" him of any more money by making him adhear to lease that he agreed to, than he would of already. The only person "bleeding" bennett of money is himself.
I don't think most fans in Seattle blame the OKC fans. It's not your fault you are getting a team - you want one and you are getting one. That is good for you. I do think it's odd how much anger SOME of the OKC fans have towards the Seattle fans. Why don't you understand that there are many TRUE fans in Seattle and they are very sad they are losing a team?? You are gaining a team - you should only be happy. I would think you could understand the sadness of Seattle. And claiming that you know the history of the team before Clay bought the team is just not believable - you didn't live here, so I am guessing that you have no idea what it's like to sit in KeyArena with 17,000 fans yelling during a double-overtime game in April when you have the worst record in the league. It's great. You will experience that one day - treasure it. It is amazing - especially sharing that with your children. At the end of the day, Don't feel guilty - but please have some compassion. Just because we couldn't talk the city into the remodel/new building, doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of fans who are very sad that we won't have a team to share with our families.
I would like to know how our leaders "failed" us. I would argue that they did the right thing. You all know that we still owe money for the KeyArena renovations done in 1995, and still owe on Safeco, and Qwest fields. But did you know that will still owe about $100 million on the KIngdome, and it doesn't even exist anymore. This is why I-91 was passed. I-91 doesn't state that we won't spend money on new arenas, just that the city gets a fair return on it's investment. Is this not the respondsible thing to do? Bennett wanted $500 million for a new arena, this would of put the tax payers on the hook for over a billion dollars, solely for sports arenas, this is out of hand, and no city owes as much for arenas as we currently do. Just because Bennett didn't want to share the wealth, even though the city/state foots the entire bill, doesn't make it our fault. And I already can hear Jill saying that bennett put up $350 million to buy the team, so we should help him make his money back, but I would argue that the Sonics were here long before he was, and the city has already spent money to build the Sonics 2 arenas before he got here, if he wanted a brand new arena, where none of us wanted it to be at, then he should of put up his fair share. I'm glad we stood up for him, and if it cost us the NBA, then oh well. This kind of thing needs to stop, and it will eventually. Now I agree, the Key needs some fixing, but a brand new arena, not even located in the city isn't needed , or wanted, and if Bennett wanted it so bad, he should of paid for it.
So you don't think that the judge, making Clay stay, should put any hurt on the officials who are trying to bleed him out at the same time? You know, maybe make Clay not be out so much money while there the last two years? I will call her out tonight if she doesn't punish the other side for their unclean hands. I don't mind if the lease has to be honored, but the officials there are acting less then honorable, and they should be punished too.
David, I think that the Sonics in OKC is a matter of "when", not "if." If I had to say what the judge is going to do, I would bet that she says that the Sonics must stay in Seattle two more years. People in Seattle are putting a lock of stock into Howard Shultz lawsuit, but I don't think that he any chance of taking the team away from the PBC. "Good faith" is a rather low bar to cross. I think that the trial showed that the city of Seattle and especially the state of Washington wasn't willing to build a new place for the team which is something Shultz acknowledgd the team needed.
A few thoughts, look Seattle folks, look inward Shultz sold a local team to OKC Owners he should have known better. Had the Arena deal got done in SEATTLE you would had the Sonics PERIOD. Bennett and Co saw a team and jumped on it were they 110% honest I doubt it! Was the Seattle govt honest 110% no. It was pretty clear they (Bennett and Co) were aware that if an areana deal was done in Seattle they would flip it. Seattle I-91 was a real killer and you guys know it. There is little support of building an areana Shultz tried numerous times all failed. Being from Tulsa we often looked down at OKC however the changes they have made to that city are amazing, Don't doubt this States ability to Support SPORTS OKC-Tulsa Metro has strong corporate support and population. Tulsa has been proactive toward support of the Hornets in failry large numbers. The case with Shultz will fail on it merits mainly because of time a judge can not undue some contract(s) and not others for example undue lease with OKC and not undue the sale of the Storm, players and coaches contracts. Look at Starbucks Shulz back in charge 50% stock fall since he took over. Blame Shultz not Bennett!! Seattle is a fantastic City been there a number of times. Unfortunately you leadership failed you and I was hoping that they would want to keep the Sonics name. Sonics will come to OKC sooner or later. Team is owned by OKC owners NBA has cleared the move it just a time thing and perhaps your time runs out tonight.
I am just going to say good luck to both sides. And i hope everyone involved gets something positive out of this situation. Seattle, you have a great city and i wish you the best either way. Oklahoma City, i love my home town and hope for a outcome that can help us grow even more. 6 o'clock here we come.
I saw a quote on here somewhere, i can not find it now, but it said the NBA caused all of this and is playing these two cities for fools. I think whoever said that is on to what the real truth is in this situation.
Oh, Seattle would take the Sonics back if the Schultz suit had a chance in hell of succeeding (which it no doubt does not). They have Ballmer and Co sitting in the wings ready and waiting to do a major renovation of the Key and buy the team, as was outlined in the "dirty hands" claims. The public would welcome them back with open arms with Ballmer as the owner. None of this will happen, but stop pretending the city does not want them back. All of this "Seattle deserves this" BS is just that.
If the city wins this case, I think there is a better chance of the city approving a complete Seattle Center renovation (which is already in the works, and what our government wants to do) than schultz winning his case. I-91 will have no effect on a complete Seattle Center renovation, as it will be brought to vote as a city improvement instead of just building a new sports arena. For you that don't know, the Seattle Center is the land that the Space Needle, the Pacific Science Center, the Experience Music Project (a museum), Memorial Stadium, and KeyArena sit on, and was built during the worlds fair here in Seattle in the early 60's. What they want to change/upgrade almost the whole grounds except for the science center, the needle, and the fountain, all else will be redone, along with a new parking garage on the grounds as well. This plan will be approved, and will not be bound to I-91. With this in place I will be curious to see how big of a hurry the NBA will want to get the Sonics out of Seattle, this will probably be where Bennett pulls his "sweet flip", and is awarded an expansion franchise for OKC.
If the biased Judge rules against us, let's not start squealing. We heard enough of that at the last NBA BOG meeting when Loverboy David rode Clay bareback across the stage. It was ugly!
"Green Bay Packers = only franchise at no risk of ever moving." I may be wrong on this, but i swear i heard that the town of Green Bay actually owns the team.
Bennet knew when he boughtthe team he would lose money. But he still bought it....which tells me he had a different plan all along. People want to compare this to landlord tenant lease....I dont understand how you can compare the two. Ive never signed a housing lease that had a specific performance clause in it..have you? This is all bogus I dont think people realized what all was including in the I-91 or whatever it was. Just like not all the people of OKC were fully aware of what they were getting into by voting yes...but it is what it is.
If Seattle is putting their trust in the Schultz suit, they are dreaming. Starbucks is closing 600 stores and he doesn't really want the team back. This is a publicity stunt, to save face, and he and his attorneys will find a way to sabotage this suit if it looks like its going the "wrong" way. The last thing this guy wants to do is cut a check back for $350M and take over the lame duck Sonics....
Don't be so cocky Mr. Tramel. If the team is forced to stay in Seattle, that gives them two more years to force the team to stay. I put little faith in what you write, either way. Aren't you the low-life that wrote sick lies about New Orleans and how the Hornets were DEFINITELY not go back to New Orleans from OKC? Aren't you the reporter that took the dagger, stuck it in harder, and twisted it around and around to inflict as much pain as you possibly could to the City of New Orleans while we were reeling from Katrina? And we all know the story about the Hornets. The story for the Sonics is far, far from over. There are other lawsuits. Chances are much higher that the team will be in Seattle permanently than they will ever be playing in OKC. Will OKC get a team? Probably, but, I don't see it being the Sonics.
Cities will fight public funding of arenas. That is what cities do. Sacramento is fighting tooth and nail public funding of a new arena there, and they are a one franchise town. Los Angeles refused a new football stadium for the Rams and lost the team. Orlando took years to be convinced there small arena had to be replaced. You can find numerous other examples. Therefore Seattle-area folks should not feel guilty over losing the Sonics (assuming this goes through) either. The hesitancy of the public there and their politicos was not unique or even all that strange. They are just of the unfortunate cities who may lose a team over trying to hold out for "more important things". The only reason pro sports is able to play this facility blackmail game is because cities like OKC are out there attempting to lure franchises away from other cities. This is hardly unique either. Kansas City is sitting on a sparkling new arena with no tenant, one they had hoped would be the NHL Penguins, who stayed put. New Orleans took a similar gamble and landed the Hornets. Being a member of that club is the only thing OKC might feel a bit uneasy about but I am sure you will not very long. I have posted on this forum before that you should not feel sorry for Seattle either, they will be more than fine. This confused "liberal" city that "does not support their team" just hit the 17K mark (the size of the Key) for season tickets.. for an MLS EXPANSION TEAM! This is town that has hit the 3 million mark in MLB attendance more than once (yeah, they are down this year but will bounce back) and sells out every Seahawk game. Given a chance, they are a terrific sports town. They just do not take to getting jacked around by poor product or sleazy carpetbagger owners, as happened with the Sonics, nor should they.
I will ask this to you David, how can the city "bleed" anyone of any money?? How can Bennett lose any more money than he would of by buying the team, and adhearing to the lease, as he said he would. How can the city inflict any losses on him that he would not already incur. Did Gorton act out of line, yes, but was it proved that the city had any hand in this?? No. None of the city officials where at any "meeting". I can give you a link to the day it was announced that the SOnics where sold, and in said article our mayor states that the city will hold the Sonics to the lease. He has done nothing that he said he wouldn't already do, and holding someone to a contract in no way is "unclean". This is the City of Seattle vs. the PBC, not Gorton vs. the PBC. I would still like to know how Bennett et al. will lose any more money than they already would of by honoring the lease.
I thought that was if they indeed came here, but I have not forgotten... I still have your info in a TXT file on my desktop at home. Again though I thought the deal was IF they actually come here, which could still be undone by Schultzs case. While you are here Lynn, what do you think about all of this? Think the Sonics will still be here? Think Schultz has a case?
If the city does win david, how can you call it biased?? Bennett himself testified that he knew about the lease, and that he would lose money. Also he signed the sales deal stating that he would assume, and honor the lease, and that there was no buyout clause. It also states right in the lease that they have to play all home games there through 2010, which he was also aware of, and that either party can enforce the lease. Just how would it be biased if she rules for the city, when Bennett himself said he knew exactly what he was in for??
david, don't start the doubting again! you did the same thing before the BOG vote, then told us how you were just preparing for the worst. it's ok to be optimistic.
You folks in Seattle have nothing to worry about. This judge will act out of bias, despite those in power in Seattle acting in shady fashions. I have had this feeling ever since the trial started, and it will come to fruition tonight.
Cucumber: I think the problem with the forum is that Seattle fans try to be civil but it is sensative to us when we keep hearing that Seattle does not care about the Sonics and that we won't build a new arena. That is not true. We just want a better partnership. I would ask this questions to all of OKC. Do you think in 41 years that when your Pro Basketball team comes asking for a new arena that you are going to be willing cough up all of the money for it? The answer is no. You did approve all of the $121 mill for the Ford Center because you are new to the game and it all seems exciting!! I am not faulting you for that because that is just how it goes. I guarantee you the next time around you will love your team and want a new arena but you will want the owners to cough up some money and that is where the problems will began. I have always said your city deserves a team, but you truly should listen to the Seattle people when we talk about not getting suckered. That is not a blast to you but just good advice from folks who have done this for 41 years. You can take it or leave it.
Michol wrote: "...it was free cuz Clay and Co. bought up a lot of tickets and gave them away. You did not see him giving away tickets in Seattle to draw crowds did you??"" Do you have a link for that? Have seen this claim before in the threads and I'm not saying that it isn't true, just haven't run across any article that spelled that out thats all. Thanks!
Jill, remember the City splits revenues for with the team so if the team is in a bad lease so is the city. Don't think for a second that the City made out on this lease. Also, once again I remind everyone that the NBA helped draw up the lease and apporoved it and then presented it to the City of Seattle for approval. If the City was to say ok clay, you can keep all of the revenues from KeyArena and Clay puts out a crappy product is that fair for the tax payers of Seattle? The reality is with the way the Ford Center lease is, this scenario could play out in OKC. With the "Barons" keeping most of the revenue from the arena, if the team plays poorly than OKC will lose a lot of money and the taxpayers will eat all of those losses. But hey, At least you can say you are "Big League" City when you are paying $20 for a bucket of popcorn at the Ford Center!!
Michol, no one is judging what Seattle did wrong for 41 years. It's the last 7 years that something should have been done. We don't deny the dishonest dealings of Bennett, we don't consider him a saint, we know what he is capable of. It's just that people from Seattle can't see how dishonest their officials have been also. You think they are saints. When you folks from Seattle comment on this forum and call us names(sucker, idiots, hicks,I could go on and on), were going to call you names right back. You try to put us on the defense and you always throw that little insult, don't you? If you want a good conversation with us, we will listen to your views and tell you ours. But most of you expect us to agree with you and not have an opinion. That's not how we roll, it's give and take, or it will go down hill fast. You know an Okie is not welcome on your forums, that is made very clear. But you come on here and demand respect. You have to give respect to get it.
I firmly believe that if Steve Wynn had bought the Sonics and were moving them to Las Vegas there would still be an outcry, from Seattle, but far less venom. For some reason, Seattlites take this move to little, insignificant Oklahoma, as a great insult and hit to their egos. That attitude is causing their leadership to act irrationally, IMO. With a little humility, Seattle could payoff their Key Arena debt, keep the Sonics name and history, and possibly secure an expansion NBA franchise. However, I don't see any of that happening for them now.
I'm still pissed we lost the NFR to Vegas back in the '80s or whenever it was. Those of us who remember surely felt betrayed. OKC built up the NFR and we surely felt we were in close partnership with them. But Vegas came along and made an offer to move the NFR to then-spanking new Thomas-Mack Arena and upped the payouts. Any loyalty felt towards OKC dried up in a hurry and the NFR packed its bags and left us in our tears and dust. What goes round comes round.
Interesting article. It ought to be required of every new franchise to share this with the populace before the team is ever in place. Let the fans know they shouldn't get attached, the team doesn't belong to the city, it's just a business, and eventually the chances are they'll end up moving somewhere else.
So starbucks is going to close 600 stores this year. Can we sue Shultz if they take the one, oh i mean four within walking distance of my house. Seriously, you call clay a bad business man. Who opens 50 billion stores. some within rock throwing distance of each other, And expects to succeed? And then fools most of the world into thinking it is ok to pay 5.00 dollars for a freaking cup of coffee. These are the little reasons our economy id fauling apart. Are prioritys are screwed.
"You hear the term Partnership between cities and pro teams when they build arenas so in a sense the city owns apart of that team. The city is made up of the tax payers so in part the fans of Seattle own a piece of the Sonics!!" I agree that there should be a partnership between the city and the team. But, when a city callously disregards the losses an owner is experiencing, and I'm talking Schultz here, then the city is backing out on that partnership. There has to be give and take in any partnership. When one party is doing all the giving, then usually the partnership is first soured, and then dissolved. Again, if Seattle had done it's part with Schultz, the people in Seattle would barely know we exist, or care. If the team is worth so much to the city, why wasn't the city expending extraordinary effort to keep the team? Schultz was quite public about the fact that he was shopping the team to other cities before he ever sold to Bennett. Why didn't anyone in Seattle want to buy the team? When Bennett said he was going to move the team if he didn't get a new arena, why didn't the city do what Mick Cornett did here? Why didn't they have a new arena plan drawn up, present it to Bennett and Stern, lobby the legislators in Olympia to get it done? They knew what the deal was going to be months before Bennett even took possession of the team. If it were me, I'd have had a presentation of my plans to show to Bennett on November 1st, 2006, as we know they can do Powerpoint. I'd have been lobbying all my local senators, and I would have had a media campaign to fight I-91. Instead, they sat back and did nothing at first, and lobbied in Olympia against Bennett's proposal later. I see no evidence Nickles cared at all about the Sonics, and I-91 showed me the populace wasn't too interested in that partnership either.
First off, the "Sucker" comment was not a bash on OKC is was a sad reality and I feel for OKC when I use the term sucker. I just find it funny that OKC hosted an NBA team for two years and they are suddenly experts on what Seattle did wrong in 41 years. The sad part is most people on here from OKC really believe what they are writing and I or anyone else won't change their way of thinking for about 5 or 6 years when things start going bad. Also, please stop comparing the Sonics to Boeing!! Boeing was not built with Tax payer money. You hear the term Partnership between cities and pro teams when they build arenas so in a sense the city owns apart of that team. The city is made up of the tax payers so in part the fans of Seattle own a piece of the Sonics!! Hardly the case with Boeing!! As for the "GOD" card I was simply implying that Clay made some unethical business decisions in regard to the entire process with the Sonics and for that GOD will judge him. Yes I am not perfect and I never implied that in my post, no reason to judge me because I was not judging Bennett thus the comment that "GOD" will and not me. You fans of OKC can choose to ignore the dishonest dealings of Bennett and dismiss for whatever you want but believe me they will come back to haunt Clay Bennett. And finally, please quit throwing the numbers out about two years of Hornets Basketball in OKC, of course you came out it was new and for most of you it was free cuz Clay and Co. bought up a lot of tickets and gave them away. You did not see him giving away tickets in Seattle to draw crowds did you??
Once again the citizens of two fine cities engage in throwing rocks at each other in anger, while the NBA -- which caused this whole mess with its out-of-control economics -- sits back and smiles. David Stern has played one city against another in the name of profit. Seattle could and would remodel its arena to meet the NBA's needs (again), just as OKC is doing with the Ford Center. There's no magic here, no good guys or bad guys. Just a multi-billion dollar business that takes care of itself first and forever. Maybe when people understand that, they'll quit yelling at each other and understand how the NBA really plays its game.
I am not meaning this as a slam against Robert from Seattle. I wanted to correct your figures so that the correct facts are there for everyone to see. The Supersonics average attendance for home games last year was 13,355. They only went over 16,000 in attendance 7 of the 41 home games. Again, not to slam you, however throughout all this arguing back and forth between fans of OKC and Seattle a lot of facts have been thrown out that were incorrect. This is one that I think is at the heart of the problem. In the two years that the hornets were here the average attendance was over 18,000. I feel for the fans of the sonics cause they are paying for the problems between the NBA and owners (past and present) of the sonics vs. the city leaders. The one problem is that the facts show the fans still didn't show up when times were bad. We showed up here for a team that wasn't even ours. We will show up even more for our new team, whenever that is. Hopefully Seattle will get another team and show up after realizing what they lost.
"Jill you not from Minnesota so don't use we when you talk of them losing their teams." I not? Last time I checked, that was my home state. I haven't lived in OKC all my life; I grew up in Minnesota.
I heard Starbucks is closing some 600 stores as well. Really, who cares what Seattle thinks. Apologize for the lack of sensitivity but baby this is business. If the shoe was on the other foot.............. Oklahoma City needs something like this. Now lets keep it real and I was blasted for offering my/this opinion before saying I must not have been to OKC in awhile and I didn't leave my neighborhood. Well I have. I don't see an NBA team succeeding in OKC. Not long term. Being a OKC native, I would love it but the 42nd largest market, I believe. No cosmopolitan or diverse feel whatsoever. Hope I am proven wrong!
Please leave the Sonics name behind! Very dumb name given Boeing never built a commercial supersonic transport, and Boeing mvoed its HQ to Chicago a few years ago. Should've been the Seattle Baristas!
Any Oklahomans here who are sure of victory, don't be surprised if the judge rules against Clay... Don't act like Seattle, and pretend to know what is going to happen before it does. Let's just see the ruling tonight before we say we got the team, then let's wait to see how appeals will come out, and then how Schultzs case goes.
Berry, Not a bad little piece. And Frankly it is a business. But just as you are wagging your finger regarding the "palaces" for the M's and Seahawks keep in mind that the city did rebuild the Key in 1995 and in less than eight years it was "the Worst" lease not building. The NBA model is broken and if/when the SST's move it will last for more than 15 minutes in the NW.
We live in a free society based on capitalism. Clay Bennett spent a crapload of money on the team and that gives him the right to pursue business opportunities as he sees fit.
The NBA voted for the team to move. Seattle voted for it to move when they didn't build a new arena.
Businesses move out of cities every single day. Bball is just another business, just like Boeing and others.
Apparently the city leaders and Clay Bennett are much smarter than your city leaders or this wouldn't have happened. This realization has probably been both painful and eye opening.
The really sad part of this argument and the ultimate white flag is when you pull out the "God will judge you" card.
It's going to be awesome watching NBA basketball in OKC.
If they move to OKC you can keep the name the Sonics as a reminder to the rest of the country what a liar and dishonest business people are in OKC. Jill you not from Minnesota so don't use we when you talk of them losing their teams. Seattle fans don't want to move a team from NO or anywhere else. Barry is wrong about one thing, the outrage over the Sonics leaving will last alot longer then 15 minutes in Seattle. If the Sonics move the NBA will lose it's 14th largest market. He is right about one thing you better fill Ford Center, because everytime you don't the sport caster will remind everyone how in Seattle they averaged 16,000 fans even in the wrost year of there history, The year Bennet raped the team so he could move it.
We lost two teams in Minnesota, and we got two more back eventually. We survived. I'd rather have an expansion team, but Seattle has had multiple seasons to save their Sonics, and a courtroom seems to be the only place in which they're willing to do it. If Seattle had been willing to help Schultz out, this would never have happened, and it would have saved everyone a lot of grief and acrimony. There are good reasons why every team in Seattle has tried to leave, and there will come a time, and it could be this time, when last minute lawsuits no longer work. Save your teams by doing the right thing at the right time, Seattle.
Well said Berry, I feel for Seattle but am getting the sneaking feeling that only a handful of residents actually care that this is going on. Maybe once they relocate this will drive up the demand for the the NBA in Seattle and the Hornets can relocate there. As for OKC, I can't wait to buy season tickets....
i actually think all this hoo haw and knock down drag out worked in OKC's favor by getting the cities name in countless headlines and what not.
even if not all of the press hasn't been positive... it shouldn't affect us adversely comparison to our hat now being in the ring.
99
This article is nothing but a justification for devious behaviour by owners taking Oklahoma for a ride, and yet Oklahoma is so excited for this team that they're letting themselves be a screwed over as Seattle was. If not more so. It's like a kid getting a new car his paying for, too inexperienced to realize the cost.
I want to make a quick point that so much has been made about OKC vs. Seattle. Let me express as a Sonics fan and a Washington resident that I have nothing against the city or the fans in OKC. Hell, I don't even have anything against Mr. Bennet and his ownership group. I'll admit that I'm upset that the Sonics are leaving and that it seems that they never truly wanted the team to stay in Seattle, but I don't hold it against them. I can't say that I would have done any different if I were in their shoes.
I will say that I'm a bit concerned with all of the political wrangling that went on with this who deal. The NBA, Mr. Bennet and particularly the City of Seattle have proven that the NBA and its owners care very little about the actual fans and only about money. I know its a business...I get that, but knowing that doesn't make me any less upset when my team leaves town because they didn't get a shiny new stadium.
As a fan I sad the team is gone, but their is nothing I can do about it but accept it and move on. I did all I could as a fan to keep the team here, I went to games, I bought hats and jerseys, I wrote city and state officals to plead the case of the fans, but I'm just a fan. All I can do is mourn the loss of my beloved Sonics and hope that the OKC fans never have to feel this way. Like Mr. Tramel said, any sports team can pick up and move at any time, so all I can do is say, treat the team right and don't give them any reason to leave.
Good luck,
A sad fan.
Do you think Bennett looked at any other cities, got bids and chose the location that made the most economic sense? Of course not. It wasn't about business, it was only about his ego.
Bennett's goal from the beginning was to get the team to OKC, regardless of how much money it cost. In fact, he intentionally lost money to make his case. And Darth Stern was in on the scam the whole time.
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http://www.newsok.com/article/3265341
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Now that Seattle lawsuit has been settled, the NBA is on its way here to stay (July 3, 2008)
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“I think somebody is going to have to pinch me to think this day is really here,” Cornett said. “If I had a concern — and my tongue is not in my cheek — I’m concerned WE DON’T HAVE ENOUGH SEATS in that arena. I think the season ticket sales are going to blow the roof off the building.”
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They are already gearing up for the demands for a new arena (due to inadequate seating) and we haven’t even started making the improvements or collected one penny of the $100 million yet. Maybe they can alter the plans and increase seating somehow. Otherwise, we are flushing $100 million down the improved Ford toilets.
We live in a free society based on capitalism. Clay Bennett spent a crapload of money on the team and that gives him the right to pursue business opportunities as he sees fit.
The NBA voted for the team to move. Seattle voted for it to move when they didn't build a new arena.
Businesses move out of cities every single day. Bball is just another business, just like Boeing and others.
Apparently the city leaders and Clay Bennett are much smarter than your city leaders or this wouldn't have happened. This realization has probably been both painful and eye opening.
The really sad part of this argument and the ultimate white flag is when you pull out the "God will judge you" card.
It's going to be awesome watching NBA basketball in OKC.
even if not all of the press hasn't been positive... it shouldn't affect us adversely comparison to our hat now being in the ring.
heh, the bad grammar just reinforces our podunk stereotype to those snobs in seattle.
oh well, who really cares what they think.