Oklahoma's Ron Paul supporters upset by roll call; said they won't sit with delegation tonight Oklahoma's Ron Paul supporters upset by roll call; said they won't sit with delegation tonight
The microphone was cut off Wednesday night before U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Tulsa, could announce the Oklahoma delegation’s vote.
All but two of Oklahoma’s 41 delegates voted for Republican Party nominee U.S. Sen. John McCain. Delegates Paul Clayton of McAlester and Robert Demarest of Talihina voted for Paul, who had sought the GOP presidential nomination.
Oklahoma’s vote was announced in the Xcel Energy Center as all 41 votes going to McCain. Inhofe tried to get the attention of convention organizers so he could correct the mistake and announce the correct tally.
Convention workers eventually said that couldn’t be done, possibly because the convention was running late. It was about 11 p.m. when it was Oklahoma’s turn to announce its vote in the second round. Several states including Oklahoma abstained on the first round so that McCain’s home state of Arizona could announce the vote that would allow him to receive the nomination. Then the roll call resumed with the states that had abstained going in alphabetical order.
Convention officials assured Oklahoma’s delegation that the official convention record would show McCain getting 39 votes and Paul getting two.
"In our eyes that will be very little," Demarest said today from the Minneapolis hotel where Oklahoma's delegates are staying. People who watch a video of the convention will Oklahoma’s tally announced as all 41 votes going to McCain.
Frustrated, Demarest and his wife, Cheryl, ripped the Oklahoma patches off their blue blazers – part of the Oklahoma GOP’s uniform - and said they were done with Oklahoma’s Republican delegation. They said they will not sit with the Oklahoma delegates during tonight’s convention.
Demarest said today he and his wife plan to walk around the convention and talk with other delegates.
The Demarests, Clayton and several other Paul supporters met with Oklahoma Republican Party Chairman Gary Jones Wednesday night after they returned to their hotel for an hour or so, and then the Paul supporters discussed the incident until about 4 this morning.
Paul didn’t receive any delegates during Oklahoma’s presidential primary in February, but he picked up the two delegate votes when former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who won six votes, released his delegates. The other four Huckabee delegates joined with the 32 delegates won by McCain. Three state party officials who are delegates supported McCain as well.
"I’m disappointed," Demarest said.
Demarest and other Paul supporters talked with Inhofe, and they said Inhofe isn’t to blame. Their disappointment is directed toward convention officials.
"It may have been an innocent mistake," Demarest said. "But to go through the time and expense just to lose what we deserve is quite disappointing, as well as the fact that we have to go home and explain it to the people who supported us."
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I find it interesting that Ron Paul followers all quote the exact same rhetoric in the exact same ways, but anyone who disagrees with what they were taught in their handbook is sheep. Hey Alanis, if you were looking for something that's *actually* ironic, it's over here...
Randall and Michael...typical sheep who like to be led and won't stand up for anything, because they don't know what they stand for. So the thing to do here is either jump on the McInsane or Obama bandwagon? Have you read what the Oklahoma Republicans are supposed to stand for? We are PRO LIFE, WE love our liberties, We want illegal immigration dealt with, We want less Federal Government to include no Department of Education. We are against the Patriot Act and seek its immediate withdrawal, We don't want any Illegal and undeclared unending wars. This includes wars in the name of "terrorism" shoved down the peoples throats through admitted lies and illegal propaganda aimed at the United States citizens. That is what Republican is supposed to stand for in Oklahoma. But everyone thinks we should just all jump on a bandwagon and cheer for the home team. Well guess what. McCain stands for everything exactly OPPOSITE of what our platforms states. Guess who elses is exactly opposite?..you got it. Obama. So once again for you sheep who think you actually have a "choice" in the election, good luck voting for the Council of foreign Relations candidates laid out before you..republicrats, a and b.
Have fun voting for "Change". The only thing that will change is the loss what what rights and liberties we still have.
Randall: That was a rational, well thought out comment. Unfortunately it's totally wasted on most RP fans. "If you don't support Ron Paul then you're (fill in the blank)". It's like they're all quoting out of a handbook together.
57 days before the election is not the time to talk about how the two-party system is broken. It is time to think of how to work so that the better candidate (or the less bad candidate, depending on your perspective) wins. Ron Paul supporters had their shot in the primaries, and they lost. After this election, perhaps they'll join with Bob Barr, or Ralph Nader, or some other quixotic reformer and organized a third party.
But now is not that time. Now is the time to work for the election of one of the realistic candidates.
The system is what it is, and our moral decision has to be based on how our actions--within that system--will effect things. In other words, in making a moral decision we have to weigh the likely practical results of our actions.
In other words, if you are a Ron Paul supporter, which candidate, which party, if victorious, will come closer to advancing the ball forward in the direction you want it to go?
To vote "on principle" for someone who has no hope of winning has the same practical effect as not voting at all.
Dee Ann & Ronald, keep up the good fight. The old sheep are just doing what they've been told. Maybe some far off day in the future after American Idol gets canceled, it might occur to them to pick up a real history book and learn the truth. Until then, keep spreading the word. Your hard work is appreciated and definitely not in vain.
Actually, Little Bit, you missed my whole point. THE DEMORASTS WERE NOT INVOLVED IN POLITICS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL UNTIL WE CALLED OUR MEETING IN LEFLORE COUNTY TO SELECT DELEGATES AND WERE NOT EVEN REGISTERED REPUBLICANS UNTIL JUST IN TIME TO VOTE IN THE PPP. I RESPECT PEOPLE WHO WORK LONG AND HARD FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN BUT AM SUSPICIOUS OF THOSE WHO JUMP IN AT THE LAST MINUTE JUST TO MAKE NOISE.
Ron Paul was in the campaign for a year before the Demorasts made an appearance at any party event. They could have been working with us all of that time and maybe they would have gathered more support.
GGood for you Jason! I was also at the State Convention, and the District 2 convention. I know what went on. I also know what went on at our county convention but cannot speak for others.
I want change. I want to see the Republican party go back to smaller government ideals and lower taxes. I want the Republican party to welcome and mentor young people. I want all of these things... But that doesn't mean I can't respect the people currently in the party for all of their effort over the years. I may not agree with them, I may not like them, but damned if I can't acknowledge that some of them are corrupt, and some of them are just good, honest people doing what they consider good, honest work.
First off, it was my first time going to the convention, and I already agreed with you that a lot of things need to change, so there's no reason to call it my private little anything...but apparently if I'm not keying cars in the parking lot without Paul stickers, I'm "one of them" and "part of the problem"...
Dee Ann, there was a motion made to repeal certain sections of the rules, dealing with membership, voting procedures, and floor priviledges. That's the motion, you knew the one before you asked. Yeah, yeah, you have the right to change the rules because you're a delegate, and that's fine. You have the right to make motions, and that's fine. But you Ron Paul people weren't doing much more than wasting our time. You brought enough people to force roll-call votes, which was simply a waste of time...When a motion *obviously* fails by voice vote, and you call for a roll call vote, the ONLY reason to do is to waste everyone's time and be vindictive for losing...
Lastly, there is a vast difference between things you have a right to do, and things that are right to do...and when Ron Paul supporters learn the difference and grow up from being spoiled brats, then maybe we can all work together to get something accomplished in the Republican party.
You are right. We had the nerve to walk in and try to change things. We are not going away either, and will keep trying to change things. We did it just like those who wrote the Declaration of Independence did. They came in force(real force), and tried to change things and Thank God they did! Personally I don't care if you think I am crazy as a loon. I've been called worse! If all of Oklahoma rose up to call me crazy, but America went back to her former values and glory, I'd be screaming halleluhah as the tied on my straight jacket! Some things are worth nothing, and somethings are worth everything!
well I'm off to feed some animals, clear some brush, have some coffee with the old folks and prepare for the four year war we have ahead of us. You sheep that are so angry at us freedom loving Americans go back to your cubicle, your sensory deprivation, and your slavery/worship to/of money/self. In the meantime, we'll all go fight to save our Republic and your children from the tyranny that is among us and growing. The Campaign for Liberty has only begun. Transmission has ended.............cowards
Committees are used to centralize power to a FEW. They are EXCUSED because the organization is large. They SHOULD be used to organize topics of debate and be an avenue for ideas to come to the fore. However, more often they are used to subvert ideas. Its true in Congress, and it is true in the Republican Party. This is why you are always hearing about congressional bills being "stuck in committee". There is a reason they are "stuck", because the CENTRALIZED power does NOT want them to come to a vote! I DARE! Show me the motion that was put forward to allow anyone on the street to vote? It wasn't there. ONLY DELEGATES were allowed to vote. That is why we were there, for voting.
We have a right as delegates to amend any rules we wish. That was why we were there, to vote. You also have the right to amend rules according to tradition, and Roberts Rules of Order. Ultimately you are doing a fine job of exemplifying what is wrong about our party. Poor baby, we're all banging down the door of your little private club, and stepping on all your rules put in place to stop people from having an effect. I feel so sorry for you! You are in as bad of a place as England was when the tea went into the harbor!
John, Tulsa says "I can't believe so many people can make such a fuss over nothing! Two votes will not make a difference one way or another. WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
Obviously not you..so go back to sleep. The rules were followed by our people and the establishment broke the rules and pretended Ron Paul supporters didn't exist. That is the government that is training your children, deciding your future, and taking your money to fund a police/military state. But your right...who cares. Your children and grandchildren will sure be glad that someone cared. But it sure won't be you that they look up to and thank. That's your choice. Go back to sleep.
John, Tulsa says "I can't believe so many people can make such a fuss over nothing! Two votes will not make a difference one way or another. WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
Obviously not you..so go back to sleep. The rules were followed by our people and the establishment broke the rules and pretended Ron Paul supporters didn't exist. That is the government that is training your children, deciding your future, and taking your money to fund a police/military state. But your right...who cares. Your children and grandchildren will sure be glad that someone cared. But it sure won't be you that they look up to and thank. That's your choice. Go back to sleep.
Dee Ann, I'm not going to go back and forth with you because it's not worth either of our times. I'll concede the Oklahoma Republican party caters to the established members, and the old. There is little room for new ideas, and young people certainly aren't taken under anyone's wings.
However, I was there on ground zero, and you can beat your chest of the righteous actions of the Ron Paul people, but you and I both know you guys waltzed in in force and tried to take control of the convention. As much as I may agree that things need to be changed, you went about promoting that change in a childish, immature way. If Ron Paul was at the top of the Republican ticket, I'd support him. If Ron Paul had supporters who went about things in a classy, mature way, he would be on par with Ross Perot in this election...but you're all a bunch of spoiled children going about things the wrong way, and no one benefits from it. No one. (Disclaimer: You're going to say something about how I'm wrong. Ron Paul people will agree with you, because you're all fighting for the cookie. Everyone else will agree with me, because we all think you should ask for a cookie instead of trying to rip it out of another kids hand. I don't care what you think, I've already dismissed your ideas as being crazy. I was there on ground zero, and this is my cookie and you can't have it...)
Sharon, Norman says "Sen McCain showed in his speech why he is by far the most qualified to be President and Commander in Chief and didn't need to head a campaign to get experience. McCain/Palin08"
May I remind you of this.
George W. Bush in 2000 at a debate with Vice President Al Gore:
“Somalia started off as a humanitarian mission and then changed into a nation-building mission, and that’s where the mission went wrong. The mission was changed, and as a result, our nation paid a price. And so I don’t think our troops ought to be used for what’s called nation-building. I think our troops ought to be used to fight and win wars.”
So here’s the question: Did Bush lie, change his mind, or did someone like Cheney change it for him?
Republicans win on humble non-intervention foreign policy. Not warmongering. People should take note of this.
Committees are used to centralize power? Wrong. Committees are used when the full body of an organization is too large to effectively discuss and debate things. They *allow* voices to be hear that want to speak, but oh no, not you Ron Paul people. HOW DARE YOU suggest anyone is keeping your voice down when you don't go through the correct avenues to be heard! HOW DARE YOU suggest a system is broken when you've never tried to do anything but work against it. How dare you?
Furthermore, you can stop with the "We have a right" business when you're trying to amend the rules to allow anyone off the street to come in and vote so you can sway that majority you say you support. You have a right to vote however you want when your district sends you to a convention, this is true, but you do not have a right to amend the rules to allow people who represent no one to water down the votes of people who do... And don't ever suggest that because I didn't support your Ron-Paul supporting "alternate ballot" that I'm trying to bar you from anything. I'm simply not giving you a free ticket to the front of a line you wanted to hop to the front of without putting in any work...and my "reactionism" is based on 10 years experience watching people try to misuse parly pro and the rules to get their way. Pee on my leg if you must, but don't try to convince me that it's raining.
First of all, you don't know me! You don't know what I was willing to do. How dare you accuse me or any other Ron Paul supporter! It is a felony in the state of Oklahoma to vote against the nominee unless the nominee has abandoned the race or relinquished his delegates as in the case fo Huckabee! I know that and so did other Ron Paul Delegates. HOW DARE YOU! Try to bar us from representing our state because of your prejudice! How can a convention be taken over without the consent of the majority of delegates? You'd think the way you talk someone was there with a gun to your head! GROW UP! This is not a game of "Mother May I" in grade school. We have a right, just as you do, to vote our concience when our district sends us to a convention! I dealt with Ron Paul people all across the state, and I never saw one who told or otherwise instructed me to break the law, and serve jail time for the cause! NEVER ONE! Ron Paul certainly never did! I certainly was there, and I was fighting for whats best for both our party and our nation, and I would do it again. There is only one way to effect change. There is no reason why I should work through a committee over speaking to the whole delegation. Committees are used to centralize power as you well know. They are used to control people. Your problem is just what I detailed below, childish reactionism based on very little but rumor and innuendo!
Actually Barbara, I am grateful to Ron Paul for inspiring those who have never taken part in party politics to get involved and work for change. The Republican Party could have really used that to there advantage. Leadership could have come along side and actually taught those who were new how the system worked. They could have been accepting, and taken advantage of Ron's popularity to really create the "big tent" they claim to want to have. They could have have been accepting, and gave everyone the right to speak their mind, and those whose ideas were truly wild, would have been shown up for what they really were. One of the things that struck me about the state convention is that from the moment you walked in, the atmosphere was adversarial. If your ideas were so hot, then why not let all the ideas in the marketplace and then let the delegates decide? Isn't that what democracy is all about? Instead I hear people talking how they want to get home and watch a horse race, instead of doing the business of our nation, the business we were sent there to do. The platform was already decided before we walked into the place. Everyone was there to simply rubberstamp the opinions of a few, and then head out for lunch. What kind of effect can Oklahomans have when they haven't the courage to actually decide their own platform. It was always my idea that the whole point of a platform committee was to put together the main ideas of the platform so the delegates could debate and decide the final outcome. Little did I know that it was our job to allow the elite to decide whats good for all of us. Gee I thought it was the other way around! And then at the national convention to deny a sitting congressman, and former presidential candidate the right to speak, and bar he and his aides from the floor because the Republican Party was afraid of him. THAT sure sent a wonderful message to the world about party unity! I agree with K. the Republican Party is in a 'non win situation'! However we are there, because instead of realizing that we have left our base behind, still looking for what we promised them to get there, we are shooting ourselves in our own foot! I left the state convention supremely saddened. What happened there was a bunch of people in power were threatened by the fact that there were newcomers they didn't understand, and rather than draw them in, they stomped the zeal for the betterment of our nation right out of them! It was the most incredible display of childishness I have seen anywhere, both on the part of Ron Paul people, who were excusable because of inexperience, and on the part of party regulars who were NOT! We do not decide on who leads this country based upon who follows them! We decide who leads this country upon the values he expresses! I am sure there were nutcases that followed all the great Presidents in history. Ronald Reagan was so popular that he had a landslide. Was it only the nutcases that voted against him! If there is a travesty in all of this, and there is, its that the Republican Party has gone from wanting to include people from all walks of life, to wanting to exclude people from all walks of life! But they sure want everybody including in the voting in November, don't they? How can they be so stupid!
Hey "Dee Ann Guzman", you know, I was at the Republican convention too, and I can tell you a few about your so-called righteous Ron Paul supporters. I was there watching your poorly-executed attempt to take over the state convention by force, as opposed to quietly working for what you wanted in the state committees. I was there watching as you forcefully tried to shove Ron Paul supporters into the Oklahoma delegation, who were willing to pay the fine for voting for Paul instead of the candidate elected by the district...and HOW DARE YOU suggest that stand for liberty and democracy, HOW DARE YOU! When you are selected to go and cast a vote for a man that was selected by a vast majority of voters, LIBERTY nor DEMOCRACY have an "I'll pay the fine for covering up the voices of the people who voted and chose another man..." And again I say, HOW DARE YOU call what you wanted to do standing up for liberty. One person covering up the wishes of many with his/her own is not liberty, it's dictatorship, and I'll be damned if think you're anything other than a child because you are nothing but the worst kind of child fighting for "MINE MINE MINE" well past the point such behavior is acceptable...
Ronald, Great minds think alike! I am also a homesteading, homeschooling, mother of four. I currently have eight in my house as my eldest, my DIL, and my beautiful grandbaby are living with us while they finish building their house. We currently live on four acres, with an assortment of livestock, an orchard, and gardens. Our farm products generally include meat, milk, eggs, fruit, and an assortment of heirloom vegetables, and feed for the animals. We have purchased 30 acres of wooded land where we plan to move our operations shortly. The farm has struggled along through an assortment of obstacles the past few years, a lost pregnancy and associated heart failure, recovery time, and time out of state caring for ill family members. However, we are moving along, doing our best to live free in an age where freedom is in short supply. I am also a huge history buff, and I DO quote history a lot, mainly because most people don't take the time to even know what their country was founded upon. Ronald, if you haven't already, you ought to join the following e-mail lists: oklahomahomesteading-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Oklahomans_against_NAIS@yahoogroups.com
For the rest of you, the only no-win situation is when you quit. I know there are a lot of people out there who do not understnad why Ron paul created such hoopla. I know that many of you think this a flash in the pan, rockstar, hippy movement like so many you've seen before. Actually you would be wrong about that! 10,000 people just spent their own time and money to go to Minneapolis because not because they like Ron Paul, but because they believe in restoring the Constitution and restoring liberty. It would be a great mistake to think we're leaving. We will be working our way into all levels of government and party life. We will be on City Councils, PTAs, Delegations, and in party leadership. We ain't going away, we're breeding.
so by the logic demonstrated by the Demarests, if I am getting married and the preacher mispronounces my name, it doesn't really matter if it is spelled correctly on the license or not. sheesh. Inhofe made the error. Hold him accountable.
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Have fun voting for "Change". The only thing that will change is the loss what what rights and liberties we still have.
But now is not that time. Now is the time to work for the election of one of the realistic candidates.
The system is what it is, and our moral decision has to be based on how our actions--within that system--will effect things. In other words, in making a moral decision we have to weigh the likely practical results of our actions.
In other words, if you are a Ron Paul supporter, which candidate, which party, if victorious, will come closer to advancing the ball forward in the direction you want it to go?
To vote "on principle" for someone who has no hope of winning has the same practical effect as not voting at all.
Ron Paul was in the campaign for a year before the Demorasts made an appearance at any party event. They could have been working with us all of that time and maybe they would have gathered more support.
Dee Ann, there was a motion made to repeal certain sections of the rules, dealing with membership, voting procedures, and floor priviledges. That's the motion, you knew the one before you asked. Yeah, yeah, you have the right to change the rules because you're a delegate, and that's fine. You have the right to make motions, and that's fine. But you Ron Paul people weren't doing much more than wasting our time. You brought enough people to force roll-call votes, which was simply a waste of time...When a motion *obviously* fails by voice vote, and you call for a roll call vote, the ONLY reason to do is to waste everyone's time and be vindictive for losing...
Lastly, there is a vast difference between things you have a right to do, and things that are right to do...and when Ron Paul supporters learn the difference and grow up from being spoiled brats, then maybe we can all work together to get something accomplished in the Republican party.
We have a right as delegates to amend any rules we wish. That was why we were there, to vote. You also have the right to amend rules according to tradition, and Roberts Rules of Order. Ultimately you are doing a fine job of exemplifying what is wrong about our party. Poor baby, we're all banging down the door of your little private club, and stepping on all your rules put in place to stop people from having an effect. I feel so sorry for you! You are in as bad of a place as England was when the tea went into the harbor!
Obviously not you..so go back to sleep. The rules were followed by our people and the establishment broke the rules and pretended Ron Paul supporters didn't exist. That is the government that is training your children, deciding your future, and taking your money to fund a police/military state. But your right...who cares. Your children and grandchildren will sure be glad that someone cared. But it sure won't be you that they look up to and thank. That's your choice. Go back to sleep.
Obviously not you..so go back to sleep. The rules were followed by our people and the establishment broke the rules and pretended Ron Paul supporters didn't exist. That is the government that is training your children, deciding your future, and taking your money to fund a police/military state. But your right...who cares. Your children and grandchildren will sure be glad that someone cared. But it sure won't be you that they look up to and thank. That's your choice. Go back to sleep.
However, I was there on ground zero, and you can beat your chest of the righteous actions of the Ron Paul people, but you and I both know you guys waltzed in in force and tried to take control of the convention. As much as I may agree that things need to be changed, you went about promoting that change in a childish, immature way. If Ron Paul was at the top of the Republican ticket, I'd support him. If Ron Paul had supporters who went about things in a classy, mature way, he would be on par with Ross Perot in this election...but you're all a bunch of spoiled children going about things the wrong way, and no one benefits from it. No one. (Disclaimer: You're going to say something about how I'm wrong. Ron Paul people will agree with you, because you're all fighting for the cookie. Everyone else will agree with me, because we all think you should ask for a cookie instead of trying to rip it out of another kids hand. I don't care what you think, I've already dismissed your ideas as being crazy. I was there on ground zero, and this is my cookie and you can't have it...)
May I remind you of this.
George W. Bush in 2000 at a debate with Vice President Al Gore:
“Somalia started off as a humanitarian mission and then changed into a nation-building mission, and that’s where the mission went wrong. The mission was changed, and as a result, our nation paid a price. And so I don’t think our troops ought to be used for what’s called nation-building. I think our troops ought to be used to fight and win wars.”
So here’s the question: Did Bush lie, change his mind, or did someone like Cheney change it for him?
Republicans win on humble non-intervention foreign policy. Not warmongering. People should take note of this.
Furthermore, you can stop with the "We have a right" business when you're trying to amend the rules to allow anyone off the street to come in and vote so you can sway that majority you say you support. You have a right to vote however you want when your district sends you to a convention, this is true, but you do not have a right to amend the rules to allow people who represent no one to water down the votes of people who do... And don't ever suggest that because I didn't support your Ron-Paul supporting "alternate ballot" that I'm trying to bar you from anything. I'm simply not giving you a free ticket to the front of a line you wanted to hop to the front of without putting in any work...and my "reactionism" is based on 10 years experience watching people try to misuse parly pro and the rules to get their way. Pee on my leg if you must, but don't try to convince me that it's raining.
Oklahomans_against_NAIS@yahoogroups.com
For the rest of you, the only no-win situation is when you quit. I know there are a lot of people out there who do not understnad why Ron paul created such hoopla. I know that many of you think this a flash in the pan, rockstar, hippy movement like so many you've seen before. Actually you would be wrong about that! 10,000 people just spent their own time and money to go to Minneapolis because not because they like Ron Paul, but because they believe in restoring the Constitution and restoring liberty. It would be a great mistake to think we're leaving. We will be working our way into all levels of government and party life. We will be on City Councils, PTAs, Delegations, and in party leadership. We ain't going away, we're breeding.