Big 12 football: Expand to BYU, Louisville

Air Force is obviously the Top Choice is adds all the positives with zero negatives. 1. It brings back into play the Denver TV Market. 2. It raises the Big-12 Academic stading. 3. They won't threaten the powers (Texas & OU), sure they

Big 12 should invite TCU and Houston. Both teams at the beginning the season were in the top 25 and it would make a geographical sense.

Louisville has nothing to gain by going to the Big12. Texas runs the conference for the most part, and having the opportunity to play in a BCS bowl game is much more difficult to achieve. TCU has since joined the BigEast and provides stiffer competition on the football side, which in turn strengthens the conference. Strong is building a monster at UL and why would he want a tougher road to a potential NC? Hell Petrino was one play away from playing in the NC in 2007. UL would be smart to stay in the Big East, the Big East is done sitting around finally starting to invite other premier programs to join.

"Louisville, while sporting a decent football program that recently won an Orange Bowl, is rebuilding after the Petrino mess" The Petrino mess? Seriously? The guy was 41-9 in 4 years. I think you meant the Kragthorpe mess. That's what Strong is trying to overcome now, and so far, so good. We would only go to the Big 12 if the Big East collapses, which is not likely. I for one would not want us to join the Big 12, just to be treated like scum by the University of Texas, which runs the damn thing.

I should add one more point about BYU: The con to bringing them in is the distance and BYU coming into the Big XII helps BYU more than it helps the Big XII (though the opposite can be argued). BYU would bring more competition to the Big XII North and bring a nice Television market that could conceivably save the Big XII, but we don't gain any recruiting, any more money (as the BYU market would pretty much pay for having BYU, so there's no increase of revenue), or any other sports other than football. And don't get me wrong, I would love to see BYU in our conference. They are, bar none, some of the classiest fans outside of Norman and Lincoln. I'll never forget the respectful hush that fell on the crowd when Bradford went down and even how BYU fans handled themselves after the game. I'd love to have BYU in the Big XII, but looking at it fiscally - which is how the decision makers look at it - I just don't see it happening from either end. The fact is, Texas decides what goes on in the Big XII (yes, THAT last placed Texas team) and Texas wants the most money, the most TV, the most recruiting, and the easiest wins. Adding BYU, Boise, Arkansas, or any other team would take away their money, their recruiting, their TV time, and their easy wins. Thus, they'll never support it. Mark it now - Texas will kill the Big XII.

There's no way BYU would accept an invitation. Right now, they believe (erroneously) that they can make more money going independent. We could extend the invitation, but they'd just stare at us. The way for the Big XII to go is to go after Boise and Arkansas. Boise would do it in a heart beat - by losing 1 game, they're relegated to a no-name bowl. If they're in the Big XII, if they lose 2 games (one regular season and the Big XII Championship), they have a shot at a BCS bowl or at the very least an illustrious non-BCS bowl (Cotton, Holiday, etc). Arkansas has a better shot at running the table in the Big XII, especially if they go north. They have a shot of going undefeated AND they open up a pipeline to recruit in Texas. Yes, they leave the SEC, but would you rather be 10-2 in what is considered the best conference, or 14-0 in the 2nd/3rd best conference and still national champions? All their natural rivals are in the Big XII, with LSU serving as their only real rival in the SEC. Plus, it appears many boosters and rich alums want Arkansas in the Big XII. If the Big XII is smart, they'll court Boise and Arkansas (as there's no way Louisville is leaving the Big East; it's easier to rebuild their football team there and it makes their basketball team stronger). I would wink at Air Force, Houston, and BYU in the process, just in case one or both don't fall through.

BTW, Nice job with Nebraska yesterday! I have to admit, when the Huskers hit 17 points early, I was getting worried. Gotta hand it to the Sooners, though. It takes big brass cajones to turn it around and eventually dominate in a championship game with all the marbles on the line. It's too bad we won't have that match up, or even the championship game in the Big XII anymore. It's a gratifying victory and a great turnaround from last year. The Sooners in the BCS, and Sam Bradford doing well in the NFL. Congratulations, and good luck in the Fiesta Bowl!

First of all, wow. After years and years of observing ridiculous immaturity and disgusting bigotry by Utah Ute fans, it's refreshing to find a fan base that is actually normal, friendly, and classy. And don't get me started on Wyoming and Boise State fans. Ugh. I was so incredibly impressed by Oklahoma fans' conduct leading up to, during, and following the BYU-OK Cowboy Classic game at the Dallas Cowboys' stadium; I must say that I'm a fan of Sooner athletics when they play anybody EXCEPT BYU because of their classy and friendly conduct. Y'all are awesome. And I used to live in Fort Worth, TX (Richardson, too), when I was very young, so one would think I'd prefer UT. Nope. OU all the way. So thanks for all of the kind words about BYU; it's nice to see fans of other universities analyze BYU's strengths and find them desirable from an athletic conference perspective! As for two individuals who posted on here, and libeled my faith and my school, I have something to say: Prof27, your words are a red flag; you didn't attend BYU. No straight man who attended BYU would ever speak about BYU like you did; not only was none of what you said accurate, but you are the only individual on this entire discussion thread who has accused BYU of having "a history of racism, sexism, and homophobia." That, along with your other inaccurate anti-BYU rhetoric, marks you as a homosexual radical leftist activist student attending the University of Utah. Nobody who attended BYU would ever say the garbage you spout, but I see those sort of falsehoods being spouted all the time on UofU home turf. Based on this, I would imagine you still have an Obama '08 sticker on your bicycle, that you haven't showered in a week, and you still live with your mother, who is very disappointed in your lifestyle and university choices, but she loves you because hey, she's your mom. As for Bob's unnecessary, bigoted comment, well, that's just disappointing to see. You need to look around you; the rest of OU's fans are great examples you should follow. If you really intended your comment as a joke, it wasn't funny. Now back to the conference talk... THe fact of the matter is that most BYU fans would love to be in the Big12 for Football only; I'm not sure about the administration, but our fans tend to like the Big 12 FAR MORE than the PAC-10. Many of us USED to want to be part of the PAC-10, but... This year we beat Washington, despite still being saddled with our now-fired Defensive Coordinator. Last year we beat Oregon State in our bowl game, quite thoroughly. In 2008, we beat Washington, then DOMINATED UCLA, 59-0. True, we didn't show up for a highly disappointing bowl game vs. Arizona, and we lost that one, but in 2007, we beat Arizona, lost to #13 UCLA (yes, they were ranked back then), then beat UCLA in a rematch in our bowl game. The past few years BYU has had no problem man-handling our PAC-10 opponents, to the point where many BYU fans simply don't respect the PAC-10 very much. I think it all started in 2006, when the Oregon Ducks head coach stated, pre-game, that BYU couldn't compete in the PAC-10, then we dominated them, 38 - 8, and after the game, he maintained we couldn't compete in the PAC-10. Between the not-so-classy conduct of one of their member schools' head coached, the overall domination, etc. we really don't respect the PAC-10 very much, and have no desire to join there. Plus, let's face it. A conference dominated by over-rated, radical leftist California schools who wear their reliance upon government 'research grant' money as a badge of pride, is NOT the best match for an independent, private, conservative, Christian school like BYU. The BIG-12 is a far better match, since there are a lot of Christians in the conference, not nearly as many political radical leftists, and let's face it: a higher level of competition than exists in the PAC-10. The culture of self-reliance and liberty in Texas and Oklahoma, compared to California, is also a big plus. Utah has much more in common, culturally, with Oklahoma and Texas than California. And I was born in California. That's how far California has fallen. I usually don't mention the fact that I used to be one of them!

Amen Ed!

There is no way Texas would agree to inviting Louisville to the conference...just another middle of the road school in a conference already full of them. With ESPN paying UT $15 million a year for the Longhorn Sports Network which in the long run will benefit OU and A&M as well, we are either going to stay at 10 (unless Notre Dame wants to join) or Texas and OU will be independent by 2016.

I didn't realize there are credibility requirements for this thread, but I have no problem coming clean: I'm a BYU Graduate. I reside in California. Most of my family originated in Weatherford, Durant and Oklahoma City. I root for the Sooners in all games but one. Only had to do that twice so far - BYU won both times. I HATE the Texas Longhorns - even more than I hate the Utah Utes. It's increasingly inaccurate to consider all BYU fans hail from Utah - or even West of the Mississippi for that matter - and also the main reason our road attendance & television numbers hold up so well across the country.... And Sooner fans would be surprised to find out just how MANY BYU fans are in their corner - especially after the hospitable and classy behavior exhibited by the thousands of Oklahoma fans who attended our game in Dallas last year. I kid you not - the BYU message boards were in awe of you folks for weeks after that game - such an amazing departure from what we've grown used to when we're on the road and surrounded by RED....

Doug again. @Rock Chuck. Google the article you idiot.

BYU would do just fine in any part of the country. I also heard the PAC-10's Utah decision had nothing to do with BYU as well. Do you think they are going to start a shit storm by saying they didn't pick BYU because they are religious bigots? They may not have said it but I think that's part of it. It had nothing to do with academics. You're right though BYU only misses out on the LDS recruits who get offered by big time BCS schools in warmer climates like USC, FSU, Miami,etc... They lost out on Stanley Havili to USC, ben Olson to UCLA, etc... Joining a BCS conference means BYU gets EVERY major lds recruit, not just 90% like they do now. Add the extra money to that and they are knocking on the door of a national title every couple of years.

@Doug, what Google search? How do you do a Google search on "Rock Chalk BYU? Aren't I also in Oklahoma? Do you want me to give you my address in Lawrence?

UofL has just completed its first year in an enlarged football stadium. It seats 54-56,000 fans in theater seats throughout. Not that Kragethrop is gone Charlie Strong has begun to turn the team around. The basketball team just opened a brand new downtown arena this year. It seats 22,750 in theater seats and seems even better than state of the art. UofL's men's soccer team is unbeaten and ranked #1 in the country and will play UCLA in the elite eight. They have drawn 5,000 fans for their last two games. Three years ago the men's baseball team played in the College World Series. In 2008 the women's basketball team lost to UConn in the NCAA championship game. Its mens tennis team is ranked as is the women's volleyball and field hockey. It has very good golf teams and they play on their own golf course at the Cardinal Club. The rowing team is new, but getting better. All facilities for games, practice and dorms have been built within the past 5-10 years. And they have a large fan base that travels to games, tounaments and bowls. Finally, because of the basketball and football team's national exposure on television they are very well known in media markets. I don't believe there would be much of an issue fitting in with any of the teams in the Big 12. Oh yeah, and they had more Fullbright scholarship recipients for 2010-11 than any other school.

Doug here. BYU really is one of a few schools that could pull off Indy. I think their biggest problem will be bringing quality opponents to Provo. @Rock Chalk... Through a quick google search I found that you are coming from Utah. This link is on cougarboard.com

Byu needs to stay an independent. If they go to the big 12 they won't have their games on byutv and that is the only way for us to view them. Byu could bring such an amazing sport into this amazing land just through buytv. Indy is they ausie way!

@Doug, haven't you been reading the comments, when did everyone say they were from Utah. Would you tell ND fans to go back to Indiana? Its called a national fan base.

I think your article is great Barry. I myself would like to see the Big 12 expand to sixteen teams. One of the common problems I'm always hearing is a lack of teams to schedule. With sixteen teams there would be probably nine conference games, maybe more. I think there should be a more even split of the money also. I don't care what anyone says but the loss of Nebraska is sad. All of that tradition thrown away because something couldn't be worked out. I love the games against Colorado also, but I think it will be a long time before they have a chance to be relevant again. BYU is a great substitute for Nebraska (No Saturday games?). Tulsa would be an interesting choice, and would give them a chance to improve their team and facilities tremendously. Super sixteen leagues are the way to go. We should have went ahead and went with the Pac 16 when we had the chance, but since we didn't its time to shore up the river before the water overflows the banks.

Do people still read newspapers where you come from?

Why are there so many BYU fans on here? Don't you have newspapers in Utah.

As worded by Doug: "Mid West football is also a little to hard hitting for you folks." Signed, Sam Bradford - BYU V OK, 2009

It makes little sense to put BYU in the Big XII which is 10. They should be praying for an invite from the PAC-10 someday cause that is the only BCS conference that makes sense for them. Mid West football is also a little to hard hitting for you folks. Sorry Mormons, we love you but your not a good fit for us. Enjoy Indy, looks like you have a very sweet deal!

@ Franeker, I have to say that I completely agree with you. BYU is in a great spot. The WCC is a great (and stable) fit for our basketball program, and the Olympic sports will get to compete in some form or fashion, and they certainly aren't complaining about not having to visit Laramie anymore. As I said above, I'm thrilled with the way BYU's future football schedule looks, so now its in the team's hands!

Just for the record, anyone with a brain can see that BYU was a better fit for the PAC10 than Utah. One thing factored into their decision: religion. The mormon church's support of prop 8 in California and their refusal to play on Sunday. When it comes to $, BYU is already a cash cow on the verge of exploding. ESPN saw this before anyone else.

As flattered as I feel by the regard being shown in this discussion of inviting BYU to the conference, I have to admit, at this point in time, I'm quite reluctant to recommend such an alliance. Don't get me wrong, if the Big XII had jumped on BYU immediately upon losing Colorado and Nebraska, we would have accepted so fast it would have made your head spin. But things have greatly changed for BYU since then. Today, with Texas firmly in control of the Big XII coffers, and their primary focus being acquisition of the shares formerly alloted to Colorado and Nebraska - it leaves me wary of walking into a potentially shaky situation centered around decisions made in Austin. If Texas gets a bug-up, and decides to jump ship for whatever reason, there will be instant aftershocks in College Station and Norman - at which point all bets are off as to who stays afloat - with everyone else grasping for a life raft. Honestly, the main draw for BYU now would be the automatic bid, and that's not enough IMO. The BCS is on borrowed time - there's no logical or moral justification for a 4 loss U CONN earning a 15 million BCS payday on the virtue of membership in an emasculated Big East, while a one-loss Boise State is relegated to a $700,000 bowl game. We WILL have a playoff, and when that happens, Notre Dame, BYU and the other independents will have to be accounted for in order to avoid anti-trust proceedings. Perhaps at some point in the future it will make sense for BYU to consider joining another conference, but I REALLY like the view from our independent vantage point. For instance, we seem to have the ability to draw a formidable TV audience which opened up the doors to a very generous ESPN contract - combined with their permission to broadcast directly into 500 million homes (on BYU TV) any Football / Basketball games ESPN doesn't cover. That's hard to walk away from. Sooner rather than later many more of these conference dominoes are going to fall, and perhaps once the dust settles BYU will need to reconsider another conference affiliation. However, for now at least, we are fortunate to be in a much better position than we were previously as we all ride out the storm that envelopes college football.

BYU will not want to give up 10 million in projected TV earnings to join the Big 10-12.. Whatever we go by these days.

Honestly, As completely grateful and flattered as I am that a large percentage of the readers of this board seemingly are in favor of inviting BYU into their conference - I'm extremely uneasy with moving from complete independence into a situation where ONE school determines whether or not the Big XII will continue to even exist. If for any reason Texas DOES jumps ship (it's all about the money, honey..) huge aftershocks will rock the foundations in College Station and Norman at which point all bets are off as to which members remain afloat, and which will be left grasping for any kind of available life raft. It happened to the SWC, and is happening even as we speak with the WAC and MWC. While it would be nice to have access to an AQ slot, at this point it's not a major concern IMO because the long-term survivability of the BCS isn't looking that good. A playoff is looming on the horizon - Notre Dame, BYU and the other independents will have access when that comes about.

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