A piece of humble pie

Hmmm, I will actually just say "YES", making him a coach and paying him, in MY mind, (and in trying to stay true to my argument) would be absolutely, 100% fine by me. I have ZERO agenda in what I write as far as football or the players named are concerned. I am not an OSU fan, and I am not an OU fan either. I grew up in OKC and have great respect for both schools, but I have no dogs in this fight. I have a tremendous respect for Weeden's skills and accomplishments thus far, so I, and I believe Tanner as well, am not trying to drag his name through the mud at all. I am really concerned with the letter of the law here. This situation is cutting it close, if not already over the line. If there were NO rules about NCAA athletes and benefits, I would never have posted one word. I would have in fact scoffed at anyone having any issue with this at all. BUT, that is NOT the case. These students are considered AMATEURS!!!! I think that simple, single word is unfortunately held out of the student-athlete conversation way too often. These players are NOT professionals. They are there to get an education and some life skills and maturity while also having a platform to showcase and improve their skills. Unfortunately, they are too often exploited by athletic departments for monetary gain. Those educations are manipulated and diminished to ensure "W"s in the win column and dollars in the coffers. I don't care what new weight lifting room or practice field, or even chem lab is built on campus by the $$ that comes in from bowl games and TV contracts, PEOPLE ARE GETTING RICH on the backs of these kids. The quandary is, while I endorse a small stipend for NCAA athletes, I stress SMALL in order to try and maintain some remnants of these student-athletes remaining amateurs and NOT professionals. People also tend to lose sight of how MANY of these players NEVER go pro, in any sport. Anyway, back to Weeden. My issue is with the monetary value of his benefits when it seems pretty clear that this is one of those wink wink handshake kind of deals. Your touching the court at G-I doesn't save you any money, thus making you money according to the "a penny saved is a penny earned" cliche. Green fees and access to Karsten while only being a VERY casual member of the team is just a different story, no matter what the heck all the others on here try and say. That begs another question. Why are so many arguments simply NOT well thought out arguments or valid points, but simply threats and lobbed insults? "immature moronic twit?" Well said. Bravo. Oh wait, so what was your friggin' argument? As the kids shorthand goes these days, SMH, Shaking My Head. I wish some people would take a page out of Hmm's book. Valid argument, well stated, and nothing but respect shown. Hmm, I have nothing but respect for your comments, whether I disagreed or agreed with them at any level. People, he didn't make that team of his own merits! He is there to soak up a huge benefit that even other teammates of his on the football field do NOT get. that is all there is to it. It's not a personal judgement passed on the guy, it't not mud slinging, it is simply what is. I know, now are not the days of calling a spade a spade. So, I guess the PC way of going about this entire situation is simply saying "screw the sooners, go pokes" and "I dont care what Jim Tressel did, Cam Newton did, which players get arrested, none of that. I just want to watch football and for my team to win at any cost." As my wife often asks me, when I get a bit too worked up watching my alma mater, "does it change YOUR life if they win?" I don't get a raise. No more people like me. I enjoy winning, but I am also NOT literally invested in their success either. I am not busting my hump, attending two a day practices, and risking injury week in week out for this GAME. I am just there to watch and enjoy. Cheer a bit and forget about the other stresses of my own life for a bit. It is fun. It is an escape. So, as so many of you have said "get a life", I challenge those who have used that very line to "get their own" and quit living their lives vicariously through 18-22 year olds on the football field. Go vote, and spend some time actually researching the issues. Make up your own minds, stand by your own convictions, as Jim Rome says, "have a take, and don't suck".

Well, I'm coming into this conversation pretty late, but I must say that I think both sides are having a hard time keeping their arguements consistent. I will speak mostly to Jon because he goes out of his way to make the longest and most impressive posts. I actually agree with a lot of the things that he has said, but it seems that you have shifted your arguement some. For example, first it seemed that this would be wrong for any player from any sport, then from only NCAA athletes, then back to any person in general in a position of authority, and then back to a position that it is only wrong in golf. Obviously, I am exaggerating this some and being pretty generic. However, it gives me the best method of entry into the discussion to make some kind of crude comment. :-) I will stick up first for Weeden. I think it is pretty obvious that he is not trying to secretly get some kind of free undeserving stuff. I won't argue that he is taking advantage, but he speaks about it openly and innocently and makes no attempt to hide it. I for one am not a golfer, so I cannot appreciate the honor playing at this club. However, I love basketball and would have given a lot to put up some shots in the OSU arena (don't remember how to spell Gallagher-Iba). Anyway, I am most certainly not good enough to make the "real team". However, I would have loved to have a chance to beat out some of the low-level guys, some of which I even played against in High School. Still, I was never given the chance to put up my value against theirs and for that matter, I will never even get the chance to go toe-to-toe for the right to be a towel-boy. Still, I bet the trainers and towel-boys don't have to pay to step onto the floor. If they were also on the Golf Team, would you argue that they are getting special benefits for being allowed to be towel-boys. Just because it may be a lower honor than being on such a great golf-team, it does not mean it was any-better earned. Some of the trainers are majoring in areas that obviously lead to the decisions to add them to the team. However, many are just guys the coaches liked, and many times the coaches are quick to point out that they are a part of the team. Would it have been better if the golf coaching staff had hired Weeden as a coach? This could be taken further and you argue about the possibility of even giving him a salary as opposed to the potential and seemingly rare round of 9 holes? However, I don't think I will take that step :-) Anyway, That's all I'll say now. Have fun!

Geez Tanner, you moron, I suppose it'd be okay if he had a no-show job at Big Orange Sports and Imports? Either you're being sarcastic and having a little fun stirring up the Poke Perch a bit, or you're just a little immature moronic twit with no life. Go take a dump and wipe your little booty with that Sooner TP pal. Flush twice so Bobby Stoop's face isn't floating around in there.

Smitty- What do you mean by research? I readily admit, we are definitely discussing a broader issue here and some of the minutiae might be incorrect. I will agree that there are probably less than the best players on the bench for basketball teams and maybe a few in football. Many are there to help the team get ready in practice or simply play a very specific role off the bench. HOWEVER, we are discussing TEAM sports. Having a great little 3 point guy to go to or a defensive player to use in just the right places works in those situations. Golf, sorry to say it, is COMPLETELY different. Top to bottom, 100%. You can't be a putting genius and sub for a guy on #18 with a 15-footer to win the championship. You can't "play against" a guy in practice to make one member stronger. Golf is the ultimate individual sport. Moreso than tennis or even something like swimming where you hitting partner or someone really pushing you in the pool can make a difference. So, I am still not seeing your point. There may even be players on a bench who are simply on a team as some sort of "payback" or favor to a donor or high standing alumnus, but in these situations, those players are only involved in that ONE sport. If, as a member of that NCAA athletic team they THEN receive improper benefits (i.e. free gas or great summer work pay for no work done) then we are right back at the beginning of this discussion. Sorry, but I still don't see your point...either way. A guy who does not have the ability to compete on the golf team while many others who, to use your own words, "potentially" could, are not allowed to try out or be a member of that team does not fulfill any role of which you speak. Look everyone, if Weeden was on the basketball team, this would be a non-issue. You could argue that he is a great role player in practices or has some other intangible he brings to the bench. Not in golf. In basketball, he would be forced to run wind sprints until his legs fell off, condition to the limits, and really put out, thus earning an extra pair of basketball mesh shorts or other schwag. But in golf, he basically has to do nothing. You can cover it up with technicalities or what ifs, but I think most people who want to look at facts and not just try and cover his tracks could agree, this is a way to allow him to enjoy a leisurely pastime for free under the guise of being a member. NO OTHER OSU STUDENT gets this perk if he isn't a member of the golf team. If I found out that all scholarship athletes at OSU also get free golf at Karsten Creek and they just want Weeden on the team for his "leadership," they I will eat my hat, but until then, someone please come up with a relevant argument.

Jon and Tanner - you guys could make better arguments if you did some research before you spoke. Just because a "team member" is not one of the best on the team doesn't indicate there is any impropriety is having them be part of the team. OSU lists 15 members of the Golf Team, but only 10 have accumulated stats this season. So five members of the Golf Team, including Weeden, were not good enough to play in tournaments. I’m sure if you look at the football, basketball, baseball, wrestling, etc., etc, sports at OSU, or any college program, you will find players listed a members of the team who do not play in the games/competition. Does that mean that they received some unwarranted benefit by being on the team? Give me a break. Coaches, like employers, add people to their team who have “potential” to contribute and help the team. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are not. And as I wrote earlier, talent is only one of the characteristics that “good” coaches look at when adding players.

Bryan, a much better made point than most, however, Weeden WOULD be violating the rules by accepting a free or "paid for by someone other than himself" round of golf that has a pretty substantial value. He might get away with it, but the guy who invited him could be considered a booster immediately. But when did, getting away with it and connections have one damn thing to do with Capitalism and our foundation? NCAA athletes can be banned for accepting a free pack of gum from the corner store in their hometown while on summer vacation. They ARE held to a MUCH higher standard than the rest of us and it would sure be nice if people in this place ever upheld standards anymore. YEah, I would love to play at Karsten and would very much appreciate someone sponsoring me onto the course, but I am not an NCAA athlete. People look the other way because they hope thats what others would do for them. But why oh why are you anticipating doing something where you will NEED others to look the other way. Do it right the first time, every time, even when no one is looking. See: Integrity. Check it out, its a pretty cool thing. Then again, it might not be convenient. People have completely perverted what capitalism means and stands for and what this COUNTRY stands for. People have twisted its roots so that they can feel better about screwing others to the wall to make an extra 2%. Sorry man, but this country was founded on people treating others with respect, dignity, and forging a common bond that we were AMERICANS and would stand by each other when it counted. Rich and poor, black and white fought the Brits together. Now, its just everyone for themselves. We have lost our identity, and therefore become myopic in our world view. All it took was few people selling others out before everyone just said, "crap, screw him, I gotta get mine. Good luck buddy" and then turned their back on everyone...and on the next generation. No one gives a crap what world their kids grow old in. You never hear parents caring about that anymore. They want the best for them...right NOW. Trust in each other has been destroyed. It starts at the top. When you can't trust your leaders, who do you have. Only yourself. Ironically, I am not a tree hugger, a libby, an environmentalist, or employed by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

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