Berry Tramel, Sports columnist

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David Stanley Ford

OU football: Behind the 8 ball
Game will have profound impact on OU football legacy

By Berry Tramel    Comments Comment on this article52
Published: January 4, 2009

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — The 8 ball is a funny sphere.


Oklahoma's Heisman Trophy winning quarterback Sam Bradford throws a pass during football practice Barry University in Miami, Saturday Jan. 3, 2009. Oklahoma plays Florida in the BCS Championship NCAA college football game on Thursday, Jan. 8. (AP Photo/Jeffrey M. Boan)

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→When: 6:30 p.m. Thursday

→Where: Dolphin Stadium, Miami

→TV: FOX (Cox 12)

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Sort of like love and your tax return, the 8 ball can both enrapture and crush. The 8 ball is the avenue to both victory and defeat.

The Oklahoma Sooners take their third shot at the 8 ball this week. They play Florida in the Big Bowl at Dolphin Stadium, their third chance in the last six seasons for the storied program’s eighth national championship.

It’s a glorious week in the sun not just of Miami Beach but of the national spotlight, which Sooners believe to be their annual destiny.

"The national championship is something I’ve dreamed of winning for a long time, and something this team has talked about for a long time,” said OU quarterback Sam Bradford, who will be the all-time Sooner hero with a victory, able to bookend that crystal trophy with the Heisman hardware he won in December.

But this game is also a tightrope. A high-stakes showdown. All in. Boom or bust. A delicate little shot with that volatile 8 ball.

Beat Florida, and the Sooners not only again rule Mount Gridiron, not only grab that elusive eighth national championship, but they stake claim as this tradition-rich sport’s program of the decade.

But lose, knock this 8 ball into the side pocket, and OU football’s status takes another tumble as the team that can’t win the big one and didn’t deserve the chance in the first place, after multiple BCS controversies. Step aside, Atlanta Braves, there will be another organization that won a championship but failed to repeat despite years of elite contenders.

That’s a precipitous difference in one little football game that could come down to a kick or a block or a yard of Florida sod.

"The Sooner Nation, I understand they’re hungry, looking for the eighth championship,” said OU safety Nic Harris. "I’m going to do everything in my power, whatever we have to do to get it.”

Harris is prime example of the bounty championships provide. Many years ago in Louisiana, Harris was a Florida State fan. Then he watched the Sooner-Seminole Orange Bowl eight years ago, a defensive epic won 13-2 by Oklahoma, and Harris was a convert.

"I was a Peter Warrick fan,” Harris said. "Chris Weinke. OU came out and had their way with ’em. Shows what true valor of an underdog can do.”

Tradition is mighty, but it’s also ever-changing. This game will have a profound impact on Sooner football legacy.

For all of Bob Stoops’ talk about how the past doesn’t matter, how this Oklahoma squadron will rise or fall on its own merits, he doesn’t really believe it.

Stoops knows that tradition counts. Knows that belief based on past success can rise the tides, same as doubt based on past failure can crack the foundation.

Which is why Stoops is all the time turning historian on his Sooners.

"He tells us every day,” said tight end Jermaine Gresham. "There was great stuff here before we were even born.”

Great stuff since they were born, too. Which is why the Florida showdown has more on the line than just the crystal trophy which will accompany the winners home.

Win this game, and OU will match Southern Cal and LSU with two championships in the 2000s, but without a split title, like the Trojans and Tigers shared in 2003.

Win this game, and suddenly those two BCS losses to LSU and USC go from shame to strength, same as all those Jack Nicklaus runnerup finishes in majors, giving the Sooners two firsts and two seconds in 2000s title games, a noble record.

Win this game, and the Sooners rank with college basketball’s Florida Gators, baseball’s Red Sox, the NFL Patriots and the NBA’s Spurs and Lakers as clear-cut, two-time (or more) champions this decade.

Lose, and OU shoves aside Ohio State as the team no one wants to invite back to this party.

These Sooners need to win for themselves. These Sooners shouldn’t have to carry the burden of those losses in New Orleans and here in Baja Boca Raton. By all rights, they should walk into Dolphin Stadium free of the burden of past failures.

But they won’t. They know the history. They know the stakes. They know that Oklahoma football sits squarely behind the 8 ball.

Berry Tramel: 405-760-8080. Berry Tramel can be heard Monday through Friday from 4:40-5:20 p.m. on The Sports Animal network, including AM-640 and FM-98.1.

The Magic 8 Ball speaks: We asked the magic 8-ball, and a couple of actual people, a few questions as the Sooners head into the national title game against Florida. It looks like the 8-ball may be a bit of a Gators fan. Also, a look at the Sooners’ numerology of the number eight. On Page 6B

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David Stanley Ford





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I watched part of the Utah game, and did anyone else notice the multiple times they tripped the running backs while lying on the ground? Not that that is what caused them to lose, but it happened several times. These bowl games do not determine the best team of the year. At the end of this year there will be a minimum of four teams demanding they are number 1. A playoff system is the only way to pick the best team - but it won't happen. As far as the article goes, I think it is relevent to the longtime fans, but not the current team. I am sure Stoops informs them of the history of OU's program, but each team is different - this one is pretty good! OU didn't use to pass much, OU never used the no huddle .... If Bradford is protected OU scores 50+. AD may be on the sidelines now that Mn is out?
Lawerence, Oklahoma City - Jan 5, 2009 at 3:51 am
Brian I am glad you approve of stoops and friends receiving millions of dollars in pay that are passed down to you the ticket holders and students just so you can be "proud" for them handling the easy games in the big 12 year after year only to blow off the bowl games year after year and choke in the national spotlight.
ALBERT, BETHANY - Jan 5, 2009 at 12:54 am
I see what your saying matt, my bad, but Jamie you could come up with better excuses than the old we beat our selves. If that's the case there will be no chance for a bowl win under stoops. Try another.
ALBERT, BETHANY - Jan 5, 2009 at 12:45 am
Albert, what he is saying is that THESE players shouldnt carry that burden. That was a different group of players in those two title games. Now, WVU, thats fair game if you are talking here and now, but '03/'04 is now in the past from this teams standpoint.
matt, Moore - Jan 4, 2009 at 11:17 pm
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jerry: I am with you. I proud of the Sooners program. I am glad bob stoops and his staff are in place at OU. They have done an excellent work over the last 10 years win or loose thursday. Go Sooners!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brian, Owasso - Jan 4, 2009 at 11:17 pm
OU is an awesome team, but the thing about OU and bowl games is not the opponent - OU beats OU. Not USC, LSU, etc. Sad but true...
Jamie, Yukon - Jan 4, 2009 at 10:05 pm
OU is an awesome team, but the thing about OU and bowl games is not the opponent - OU beats OU. Not USC, LSU, etc. Sad but true...
Jamie, Yukon - Jan 4, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Great article, Berry.
cj, Norman - Jan 4, 2009 at 9:47 pm
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David, Texas would have to annihilate OSU to be considered by the AP. OSU was trounced soundly by USC, and even after USC's performance in the Rose Bowl, (against another team that beat OSU) it's Utah that's getting most of the AP chatter.
Dana, Tacoma - Jan 4, 2009 at 7:54 pm
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Cow-worshipper Alert! You all will further sully the Big 12's rep with a loss tomorrow night in the Fiesta. David in Austin says the AP is the "true" authority, as he believes this is the only way UT can pretend to be national champs. Most of the AP voters are as clueless as the Harris Poll and the rest.
I do think Mack Brown has found really good coordinators on both sides of the ball, but the desert has a way of producing strange outcomes.
OU and Florida play for the national championship. Hope the best team wins, and hope we're the best team Thursday night. Gr8 night on Jan 8!
David, Frisco - Jan 4, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Lets play for "today" not what happened the last 4 years. Good Luck OU, I'll be glued to my TV in Ohio rooting for you.
Mark, Zanesville - Jan 4, 2009 at 6:59 pm
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Just play hard.
Gary, Oklahoma City - Jan 4, 2009 at 6:42 pm
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The comment about playing an easy road to BCS games gets validated every time to the nation when Ou get place in those games but don't win those games.
ALBERT, BETHANY - Jan 4, 2009 at 6:33 pm
First off Berry Tramel's talk about "the 8 ball" is most probably not the one used in playing pool, but the too many 8 balls he has sniffed up his nose. Second, LSU is the only team so far with two BCS trophies since the BCS has been around. And what's this crap about they shouldn't have to carry this burden of New Orleans and Baja Boca Raton? They lost both games didn't they? When will people understand that tradition and history mean nothing now a day's, it's all about NOW. What can you do to make us happy today! History is the old school way of self justification and the fact that Ou like USC plays an easy road to BCS Bowl games and N.C. games year after year is actually what gets the haters started. Is that not why Ou hates on USC?
ALBERT, BETHANY - Jan 4, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Sooner fans be sure and visit the NBC link to vote for the "college football" team of the decade, of course it will be the sooners..
Good luck team we will be watching and will celebrate the win here at home. http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22382241/?pg=6#spt_FBC_team_of_decade
Martha, Atoka - Jan 4, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Sooner fans be sure and visit the NBC link to vote for the "college football" team of the decade, of course it will be the sooners..
Good luck team we will be watching and will celebrate the win here at home. http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22382241/?pg=6#spt_FBC_team_of_decade
Martha, Atoka - Jan 4, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Joe, Austin. I just saw that article. I dont like it either. I prefered when all the bulletin board material was coming our way. Oh well, I guess it is flying from both sides now.
matt, Moore - Jan 4, 2009 at 4:08 pm
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Oklahoma was beaten by USC, LSU, Boise State, and VT/or WV? Each of those teams were very good and in the top 5 in the country. I am just proud the Sooners were at the dance. What other team gets to the big one as often? None! If Oklahoma plays their best, keeps care of the ball and sticks to their assignments, they will win. They are as good as any team and have had a great season. Boomer!
Robert, Denver - Jan 4, 2009 at 4:05 pm
The Oklahoma Sooners are champions in my book no matter what happens in this game on Thursday. As a fan, I am proud of their accomplishments as a team. They did not let the Fiesta Bowl debacle destroy what they could accomplish this season. Even in the one loss they did have they were fighting through to the end. As for the tough talk coming out of Florida and the pointless criticism that is coming from the media, all is meaningless because the better team will be proven on the field of play. Congratulations to Utah for coming out and taking it to Alabama for the whole game. It sure looked like Alabama was listening more to the media than their head coach. As far as debating about which teams should be where: there is only one fair way to settle the rankings and that is to implement a playoff system.
jerry, Hephzibah - Jan 4, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Here is an interesting article. My question is why would you give the other team bulletin material?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls08/news/story?id=3809361
joe, Austin - Jan 4, 2009 at 2:20 pm
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Sorry about the long post guys. They used to have it where you could make paragraphs and break up your comments to make them easy to read. I guess they've changed that. Brilliant.
Grant, Edmond - Jan 4, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Sorry guys. If you've read my posts, you know I'm a big Sooner fan. And, I've gotta say, Dana makes some very good points.

The only thing he/she's wrong about is the assertions that someone would or wouldn't win a game. You can't know that. Who knows who would or wouldn't beat Utah in a single game. Or OU or Florida. Heck. You could replay Utah/Bama 5 times and Bama could win all 5.

But, the notion that a one loss USC's big win in the Rose Bowl, or Utah being undefeated cheapens the national championship is right on. Oh, I won't complain if OU wins. And if Florida wins, they will have earned it. But, the argument for a legit playoff is there, and the arguments against having a playoff just don't hold water.

Such as:

1) It cheapens the regular season - Whatever. Conference championships will be the main way into the "postseason." Every game still counts and inter-sectional rivalries (like OU-Texas) will still be GameDay worthy. As far as the non-conference goes - now you can schedule at least one big name and a loss doesn't kill you, while a win gets huge bragging rights. They could start having conference vs. conference challenges just like basketball. Imagine a Big 10 vs. Big 12 challenge. OU plays Ohio St., Texas plays Penn St., Nebraska plays Michigan, etc.

2) You can't have the season span two semesters - There's no reason why it should. They only recently added the 12th game, which makes 13 or 14 for those teams that have a conference championship and then a bowl game. With a little simple reorganization, an 8 team playoff after a 12 game regular season would involve extending the season to 13 games for 8 teams, 14 games for 4 teams and 15 games for the two that make it all the way through. I don't think they would complain.

The Bowls are quickly becoming irrelevant too. Playing on New Year's Day doesn't mean much any more, since they've started putting the big games on other days in January, while mixing in real winners like the "International Bowl" and the "GMAC Bowl." Reduce bowls to about 20 total, and reinvigorate the big ones by tying them into the playoff.

Those are just two of the most common arguments against. There are a lot of other arguments, and they're all just as easy to refute.
Grant, Edmond - Jan 4, 2009 at 1:52 pm
And from ESPN: "After Boise State's win over Oklahoma in the 2007 Fiesta Bowl, and Utah's win over Alabama, there is plenty of indisputable video evidence to overturn the notion that the non-BCS schools aren't deserving of at least a shot at playing for the national title."
Dana, Tacoma - Jan 4, 2009 at 12:30 pm
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Max, if you "refresh" or "reload", it'll do that to you. An easy way around that is to just click a cursor up in the address bar and hit enter.
Dana, Tacoma - Jan 4, 2009 at 12:25 pm
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Dana, I am somewhat new to this forum but I have never seen such a petty, negative, jealous and venomous spew of verbal corruption out of anyone's mouth or keyboard as I have yours lately. I sincerely hope your life gets better soon. The hate and misery you portray has no place in any sports arena. After all football is just a game. It's supposed to be fun for the players and the fans. Maybe you could be a happier person if you got a job in a slaughter house or something so you could lighten up on the recreational side of life. Best wishes for expeditious resolution of all your issues.
Max, Brentwood - Jan 4, 2009 at 12:17 pm
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You know, I would be mighty proud of this team if they win the championship. However, if it comes out bad for the team and program, I will still find pride in their accomplishments. Yes, they may not win the big one, but at least they keep qualifying for the big dance. That, in itself, is pretty darn awesome.
Lawrence, Guthrie - Jan 4, 2009 at 12:15 pm
No matter who wins the NC game, there will always be that asterisk there. This game has taken on the relevance of the GMAC bowl.
Dana, Tacoma - Jan 4, 2009 at 12:15 pm
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Dana doesn't even know his own facts...he's saying "NBC says this" and "NBC says that." The article he's referencing (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28477417/) was written by a reporter for Sporting News. Newsflash Dana...just b/c it's on nbcsports.com doesn't mean NBC is the one reporting it. It's one author's opinion...doesn't mean jack. Just like yours.
What, ? - Jan 4, 2009 at 12:11 pm
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Brian said it well. NBC is just dumping on the NC game. USC and Utah do not deserve a shot at the NC game than OU/Florida. USC lost to a four loss team that could only muster 3 points in its bowl game. And Utah barely beat TCU at home 13-10 where OU demolished them 35-10.
Larry, Tulsa - Jan 4, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Dana - Deductive reasoning said 'Bama would pound the ball against Utah and obliterate them much as Georgia did to Hawaii last year. So much for deductive reasoning, eh? You can't just assume Utah would beat OU by comparing opponents. "That's why they play the game."
What, ? - Jan 4, 2009 at 12:02 pm
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Dana, I am somewhat new to this forum but I have never seen such a petty, negative, jealous and venomous spew of verbal corruption out of anyone's mouth or keyboard as I have yours lately. I sincerely hope your life gets better soon. The hate and misery you portray has no place in any sports arena. After all football is just a game. It's supposed to be fun for the players and the fans. Maybe you could be a happier person if you got a job in a slaughter house or something so you could lighten up on the recreational side of life. Best wishes for expeditious resolution of all your issues.
Max, Brentwood - Jan 4, 2009 at 12:01 pm
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And this from the AP: "Utah players and coaches held aloft the Sugar Bowl trophy and proclaimed themselves the No. 1 team in the land.

Under the current system, that's more of a dream than a possibility. What is clear is the winners of the Mountain West Conference proved they could soundly defeat one of the Southeastern Conference's best - an Alabama team that spent more than a month atop the rankings."
Dana, Tacoma - Jan 4, 2009 at 12:00 pm
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Of course the blabber mouths at NBC are going to "minimize" the NC game; it is being broadcast on FOX. NBC is pissed because they used to broadcast many bowl games and now only have the Orange Bowl. And, this years OB was pretty lame, espicially in the second half with virtually zero offense.
Brian - Jan 4, 2009 at 11:50 am
I still think that Florida will win the game, and anyone can say what they like about the AP and the BCS and talking heads, etc. But this years big game has been de-legitimized by both the Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl. Another blurb from NBC: "We've seen three of five BCS games, and it's beginning to look a whole lot like the BCS points series not only whiffed once by not spitting out Rose Bowl champion USC, but may have blown it twice by ignoring unbeaten Utah.

That Florida-Oklahoma national title game is getting more minimized by the moment."
Dana, Tacoma - Jan 4, 2009 at 11:33 am
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Now this was a good article....atta boy Berry
Eric, Norman - Jan 4, 2009 at 11:33 am
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you've got it right jo. Venables needs help. And defense definitely wins championships, OU proved that in 2000/1.
John, Wylie - Jan 4, 2009 at 11:08 am
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I'm an OSU alum, but I don't think there's any way Utah would beat OU. They don't match well. I disagree with you Dana. I think the only team that has a chance is Florida. I do think that Utah deserves to be in the National championship. If we had an 8 team playoff, we would find out.
John, Wylie - Jan 4, 2009 at 11:06 am
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Before this season Stoops has been to 9 bowls won 4. Won 3 out of 4 while his brother
was DeCo. Has won 1 out of 5 since Venables has been DeCo. See anything odd about
that. Look back at the Sooner D. before Mike and after during those seasons. This is
Stoops 4th NC game in 10 years, won 1 so far. Switzer beat Fla. St. in the Orange Bowl
2 years in a row during his first 10 seasons, lost 1 bowl and won 2 NC's in his first 10
(probation 74-75 season no bowl). Buds record speaks for itself. I'd have a smile ear
to ear like Stoops if I woke up NewsYears morn. and had a $3mill. dollar bill in my hand.
If you are going to print glorified articles about Bob then the stats. on his teams need
to be aired out. Switzer and Bud had hardcore defenseive teams, nation leading on both
sides of the ball, game preparation, focus. Lets have some real comparison articles, not
just "Bob Fluff". Defense wins Championships. According to the Bowls so far, Oregon State
is better than Penn. State. Oregon is better than OU, Mississippi is better than Texas, Utah
is equal to Fla.. Look at the D stats of the games I mentioned, it matters. During the season
the Big 12 is good, but when they are matched up against an equal or less opponent from
another conference during bowls they are over-matched. Look at the History since the
Big 12 was formed, stats. don't lie.
jo, edmond - Jan 4, 2009 at 10:52 am
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The BCS can say whatever they want, folks -- but as far as I'm concerned, the national champion is whomever the AP says it is. They didn't "opt out" so much as put themselves above the fray, thus further legitimizing the poll. AP realizes their job shouldn't be to pick bowl participants, but to rank the teams -- and those jobs done both at once had created conflicts. I've had no complaints as a Sooner fan; the pollsters love us, and the BCS computers seem to love us. Who cares what the talking heads say? Controversy creates viewers, so that's what they sell. BOOMER SOONER and BEAT FLORIDA!
David, Austin - Jan 4, 2009 at 9:46 am
Please dont drink the Utah Koolaid!
Peter, Edmond - Jan 4, 2009 at 9:33 am
Mormons must have used some of their magic underwear to pull that off.. I watched it & still couldn't believe it... I do believe Utah could beat O.U. & certainly Fla. if given the opportunity.. Heck we almost lost to Iowa State a little over 12 months ago. But the truth is they will not be given that opportunity.. Winner of the O.U. / Fla. is your undisputed.. National Champion ! Period ! Dana & his favorite coach, Ty Willingham & the A.P. & ESPN & Lee Corso & his not so secret lover, Kirk Herbstreet & all the Texas fans can all rent airplanes & fly em around & proclaim their utter ignornance. But Utah wins NOTHING by beating Nicks A' Tide... O.U. Will WIN #8. And don't tell me that Utah isn't where all the Mormons go to school.. They're all Mormons & they're 22- 26 yrs. old & they're trying to take over the world!
david, fresno - Jan 4, 2009 at 9:33 am
Mormons must have used some of their magic underwear to pull that off.. I watched it & still couldn't believe it... I do believe Utah could beat O.U. & certainly Fla. if given the opportunity.. Heck we almost lost to Iowa State a little over 12 months ago. But the truth is they will not be given that opportunity.. Winner of the O.U. / Fla. is your undisputed.. National Champion ! Period ! Dana & his favorite coach, Ty Willingham & the A.P. & ESPN & Lee Corso & his not so secret lover, Kirk Herbstreet & all the Texas fans can all rent airplanes & fly em around & proclaim their utter ignornance. But Utah wins NOTHING by beating Nicks A' Tide... O.U. Will WIN #8. And don't tell me that Utah isn't where all the Mormons go to school.. They're all Mormons & they're 22- 26 yrs. old & they're trying to take over the world!
david, fresno - Jan 4, 2009 at 9:29 am
Saw it with my own eyes on Fox TV. This is from NBC Sports: "Ole Miss embarrassed Texas Tech — the same Texas Tech team that Oklahoma uses as its go-to game in its BCS argument. Alabama beat Ole Miss, and we all know Utah dismantled the Tide from the first snap of the Sugar Bowl. Deductive reasoning: Utah would beat Oklahoma."
Dana, Tacoma - Jan 4, 2009 at 9:28 am
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Dana you need to cut back on the time you watch espn.
Duane, Oklahoma City, Ok. - Jan 4, 2009 at 8:56 am
Doesn't matter anymore. Utah's win and their 13-0 record removed any doubt about who the real champions are. That's not just me, check out the sports media.
Dana, Tacoma - Jan 4, 2009 at 8:51 am
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Randy,
Well said... A.P. Smay-Pee
david, fresno - Jan 4, 2009 at 8:49 am
Berry, ESPN and, the Trojens of Southern Cal, news flash for you!!! The AP wanted no part of college football, or the rules agreed upon by college football. They didn't like the way things were done. They opted out!

The BCS decides the champion of College football. Giving USC one title in the 2000's. The AP poll is as meaningless as Jillian's poll. Who's Jillian, who cares! She's a big K-State fan and thinks they're number one every year. That's who.

Of course if Berry was a real reporter, or didn't get every bit of his sports information from someone on ESPN, who runs the AP poll, he'd know that the AP was meaningless in deciding the National Champion.
randy, topeka - Jan 4, 2009 at 7:29 am
Number eight is within grasp so reach out and grab it. Not only will OU receive recognition with all those other multi champs of the decade, but Bob Stoops will tie Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno with two national titles apiece. Not bad company to be in. Sooners can and will do it. Boomer Sooner!!!
Jackson, albuquerque - Jan 4, 2009 at 6:18 am
The perception of the nation, towards OU football, will never change. Forget the fact that OU is going into it's 4th NCG since 2000. If we lose, so what. We still bring the money home. Why? Because we are an elite team that has rich tradtion in it's long existence. The perception can't stop the paycheck. I wonder how many schools would be willing to play 6 NCG's, in a row, knowing they would lose everyone of them. Then of course, having to put up with the perception of them losing, forgetting the facts of how they got there. My perception is: people love to hate OU, i.e., teams, coaches, announcers, commentators, journalists, and communists. Go on, keep hating OU on a national level...we'll just keep showing up reagrdless of how and what you perceive.
alan, oklahoma city - Jan 4, 2009 at 5:16 am
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Agreed, this game will impact the perception of our program on a National level. Yet another reason why I'm feeling good about our chances this week.
Patrick, Fayetteville - Jan 4, 2009 at 3:01 am
I actually think it was a good article. Whether we OU fans wish to admit it or not, our BCS record IS the national perception of us. They dont care how many Big XII titles we win. To them, it just validates their belief that the Big XII isnt any good. Win this game, and bringing up the other losses is about as relevant as OSU's back-to-back wins in '01 & '02 have become. Lose, and it supports what people across the nation already beleive. We ARE Ohio St. Think about: Coach wins national title in 2nd year as a big underdog, perennial top 5-10 team, has had a few off the field challenges (Clarett/Bomar), loses 2 national title games (at least 1 in embarrasing fashion)
matt, Moore - Jan 4, 2009 at 12:13 am
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What a crock of huey. Behind the eight ball I doubt it.
KEITH, North Charleston - Jan 3, 2009 at 10:19 pm

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