Cost control: GOP alternative valuable in debate

Stephen, if your goal in life is to become a satirist, I think you should change directions. There are few Maureen Dowd's around these days and she is struggling as is her newspaper. We liberals need more journalists like George Will & Charles Krauthammer to keep us on the straight & narrow.

Stephen I have not read the GOP proposal. But from what you have just posted about the GOP plan is not that what the Democrats are offering doing the same thing about states rights as what you say the GOP is doing?

Control costs? Hmm, let's see . . . how did the CBO evaluate the Boehner proposal? Nope, the bill is a useless boondoggle. Now, let's look at my favorite part of it--the part that: (a) defines "state" to include such places as Guam and the Northern Marianas Islands; (b) authorizes insurance companies selling individual policies to simply declare, without any requirement for physical or legal presence, which "state" they are of, and then (c) preempts the laws of the state in which the insured lives or purchased the policy from applying, whatsoever and specifically including laws relating to minimum standards and consumer protections, to the insured's coverage under that plan. Fascinating. Now, let's see, . . . how is such a mechanism not (a) a wholesale race to the bottom and (b) an utter mockery of our federalist system. Think about it . . . the laws of Oklahoma preempted by the "laws" of the Northern Marianas Islands." That's okay with the teabaggers? Curious . . . . Oh, I forgot. It's all about the death panels and our President's birth certificate. THOSE are the issues that matter.

Bert, Yes some Dems and all Pubs are wholly owned by big insur. co's and redneck, dimwitted, loudmouthed, teabaggers. Say, did Coburn want to fund our super successful wars of choice as we go, even if that means raising taxes ?

Thank you, I knew you would come to your senses. Not you Bert, that's for Don.
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One thing I find very interesting about the liberals on the board is the fact that they have complained about unfunded mandates. And now Colburn want to show where the funding will come from for a bill and he is being demonized for not wanting another unfunded mandate

Scott The only 2 on the horizon that can even be called conservative in any way are Romney and Huckabee

Lanny i guess from your words that some of the democrats are owned also

You're funny, lanny......I left OK in the mid-70s but still have family there.....get back perhaps two to three times a year....usually to watch a sooner football game....OK was an extremely red state with only Tulsa County and a few others voting with the blues....As far as being a self-proclaimed expert I can't take credit for giving myself that award.....the credit must go to the Milkman.

Let see a Ross Perot/Jesse fiscally conservative and socially liberal Ventura ticket next time around.

Don the self-proclaimed expert on everything,reveals his amazing knowledge yet again! Tulsa elected Kathy Taylor over Bill Lafortune in the last Mayor's race and presumably the race is tight again between oilman Bartlett (Dewey's son) and the Democrat, Tom Adelson. We shall see. Bartlett is a bit of a moderate at least. Yes, the Tulsa area re-elected the drunk, hospital sueing loudmouth, John Sullivan. I didn't wah, wah about anything, how could you confuse me with Bert and his twin Billy, (Goat?)

I guess I'm that weak, Milkman.....if what you are implying is true, why did Obama make all of those trips making love for the great John Corzine...not just one trip but several...You know, sometimes you're just not wanted but Corzine was on the ropes and he needed someone to jump rope with him....Yeah...all politics are local...if you're a winner...otherwise you're robbed.

Don, Calion, The last time you voted for a Governor, Did you say, "let's see, who's the President and how is he doing"? I'll use that to decide who to vote for for Governor of my state. Are you that weak?
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Ah, nice to see that Lanny, the hershey bar, is back to his baby talk....always wah wah wahing with very few facts....He did admit that it was fun living in a conservative city like Tulsa. One of the most desirable cities in which to live on the entire planet....right behind OKC....

Hey Bert, your favorite Republican, the House Minority leader (Boehner) was on tv at the Tea-Bagger's madparty awhile ago waving a document, quoting from it, ranting about the President, and calling what was in his hand the Constitution several times. The problem was that it was The Declaration of Independence. It is just another typical wingnut deal, they don't have a clue what they rattle about.

The dems, just like the gop, are their own worst enemies...It's obvious that Pelosi learned nothing from the results of Tuesday's elections...To move forward with a vote on the house version of its' monstrous health bill is throwing fuel to the fire....Nancy's district is a safe haven for her even if she were to grow a mustache but there are many other congress people who won in 08 by riding in on Obama's coat tails.....those tails are no longer made of teflon...rather more like barbed wire.

No comment on Coburn not wanting veterans to call his office Bert?

Actually Bert, I don't think that it's so much "thinking alike." They just have no guts. We have NO ONE in this country to blame but ourselves (democrats) if health care WITH a public option does not pass.

Bert, I didn't blame the Republicans although it is evident they are fully owned subsidiaries of the big health insurance co's. When the Pubs plan doesn't deal with the pre-existing condition scandals, you know they are bought off !

You damned sure got that right Bert!

And Lanny I am not a Republican or a Democrat. I side with both parties on different issues. As I have stated on here previously ANY person who can stomach listening to Rush or Beck for ANY period of time should be put down.

I've been called worse. I also vote for what I beleive in.

Lanny if Democrats do not think alike enough to get bills passed when they are the party with the large majority do not blame the republicans

Scott-I say again Democrats do not all think alike, you are so used to a lock-step LimBecker, Tea-Bagging, Right-Wing Republican mindset, it staggers your imagination to think that some people think for themselves.As for the Dingbat comment, it takes one to know one.

Scott, we do not have a parliamentary form of government. Hence all politics are local.

I say again, Democratic majority and they cannot pass their own legislation. Dingbats.

As that old radio guy used to say " here is the rest of the story..."

In a letter sent Monday night to the Senate majority leader, Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., the 13 military and veterans groups ask the Senate to get on with it.

“It is essential that Congress act on this comprehensive measure without further delay,” the letter reads. “Thousands of disabled veterans with serious medical conditions and the family members who care for them are counting on this additional support.”

The letter says passing the bill by Veterans Day would be a “fitting way” to honor veterans.

Those signing the letter include the nation’s major veterans groups — The American Legion, Veterans of Foreign Wars, Disabled American Veterans, AmVets, Paralyzed Veterans of America, Blinded Veterans Association, Military Order of the Purple Heart, Vietnam Veterans of America, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America and Jewish War Veterans, plus the Military Officers Association of America, National Military Family Association and Wounded Warrior Project.

Steve Robertson, legislative director for The American Legion, said delaying the bill hurts families caring for severely wounded combat veterans who would benefit from the stipends, health care, counseling and respite care that would be provided to caregivers in the bill.
Robertson said he has spoken to Coburn’s staff about the earlier holds on S 252 and S. 728, but the conversation was fairly one-sided, with Coburn’s aides trying to get Robertson to dissuade veterans from flooding the senator’s office with calls

Milk You reread what was said

Bert, the blocking of this bill is separate from the funding process. Go back and read the article again. You would defend Coburn if he was painting jack asses with stripes to look like zebras.
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Milk By the way. What do you have against paying for a law? How is the law any good unless there is a way to pay for it?

Milk. i just pasted what I copied from the Marine corp paper

Bert, Coburn blocking veterans benefits is all about his ego. If he was being such a good boy than how come he did it anonymously? Don't you find that kind of strange? He didn't want anyone to know he was doing it, but he wanted his fellow senators to know he was having a pity party.
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let's see, 61 billion over 10 years to cover an additional 3 million people while reducing the deficit by 68 billion. What's not to like? The CBO put out these numbers, not the Republicans.

GOP plan will send federal funds to states to establish pools for high-risk individuals. Oklahoma and Mississippi offer classes in Pool Draining 101.

GOP insists it does not have a "Die Quickly" plan. There is a deductible.

Latest update: GOP petitions tobacco companies to take charge of health care reform. Walking a mile for a camel is good exercise.

John I found it another way. Here is what it says

The senator holding up consideration of an omnibus veterans’ health bill doesn’t hate veterans and their families, but he does hate the idea of creating new benefits without paying for them, his spokesman says.

Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., is using Senate rules to block a vote on S 1963, a major veterans bill, unless he has the chance to offer amendments to pay for the new benefits it creates, especially stipends, health benefits, counseling and other programs aimed at family caregivers of seriously wounded combat veterans.

Here ya go Bert. Hopefully this one is not AWOL.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/11/military_coburnhold_veteransbill_110409w/

John , it appears that link is no longer available. I tried it twice with out any luck. Do you have another?

I also have a suupplemental policy with BCBS and they have never tried to ration any health care I needed. as a matter of fact I have never had an insurance company ration any of my or my families health care at any time over the many years

Here is our own Tom Coburn showing his cost cutting measures. To bad it is at the expense of America's best and brightest. What a whore for corporate interests.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/11/military_veteransbill_coburnhold_110309w

Bob Thank You

I would explain that I was mocking Democrats by saying Democrats is so dumb a la an old cartoon character, but as I said before, Democrats is so dumb.

Believing reform is all about government-provided healthcare is nonsense. Bert, I am ignoring your comments from here out.

Additionally, 'dumb' is believing healthcare is not rationed in the US, even to those who have health insurance (mine is BCBS, who is always trying to ration my doctor's advice). Our current system needs overhaul. Minor tweaks aimed at facilitating what insurance companies desire is a big nothing, a farce.

Bob Just what we need . Another spelling and grammar teacher

Bob You sound like you are protecting yourself. Now why do you want the gov toi step in to take over what you are doing and really make a mess of things as they take more of your money. And if a person wants to buy insurance why disband the companies. That makes no sense. Now Bob I also worked abroad for many years and did the same you did as far as jobs and money is conserned. i also have never drawn one penny of welfare or unemployment . But I also do not believe the gov can do a better job on health care.

'Democrats is so dumb'?? I'm an indepedent but can't say that line lends credibility to the argument.

lol. Update from the Congressional Budget Office. The 250 page Republican plan will cost $61 billion over the next decade and reduce the deficity by $68 billion. To contrast, the 2030 page Democrat bill will cost $1.3 trillion and reduce the deficit by $30 billion. LOL. Democrats is so dumb. It is also reported that the GOP bill will actually reduce the cost of insurance, while the Democrap bill is expected to cause the price of insurance to rise.

Bert, and while you appear to be completely enveloped in yourself, believing anyone with another opinion must be a dependent on the system, I worked abroad for years bringing cash back to this state, this country, creating jobs for many including Americans, have a nice amount of net worth, never had a government paycheck in anyway, will not be a burden on the system.........so you see I have lived my life knowing I am responsible for providing for and protecting myself. You need to learn that people who disagree with you do not fit the stereotype in your mind.

Bert, I have health insurance. I am protecting myself right in line with our current system, which is one that can kick you out of it anytime the insurance provider likes. My response to your response is disband all the health insurance providers, if you haven't the means to pay cash at the doctor/hospital door, do without. Anyone believing Fortune 500 really care about anything other than the dollar is naive.

Bob Have you ever had a thought that says you may be responsible for protecting yourself?

The GOP proposal is a big nothing for the general public. Without reforms protecting us from the health insurance providers, this bill is nothing but favoring big business. Why are we so comfortable regulating utilities yet fear regulating health insurance, another basic service necessary to a 'normal' life?? The GOP is dependent on voters with limited capacity for critical thought.

So--it seems pretty clear. Tort reform doesn't lower insurance rates. What a lie.

Not to be a jerk but when I hear these claims about insurance, my response is show me the freakin' premium you are paying. I used to be an insurance company lawyer and it shocks me some of the numbers thrown out as supposedly being paid for malpractice protection. And, no one ever asks for proof. From now on, let's see the annual policy summary rather than just shootin' from the hip on this issue of malpractice premiums.

I used to live in Texas when the tort reform debate was in full swing and when it passed. I worked for a large petro chemical company. A company who for years, decades even, stood strong on a position of safety first. But not long after the tort reform was passed, the safety first turned into "managed risk". Even now look at the big fine leveled against the company in Texas by OSHA for violations. That explosion killed 17 people. What isn't mentioned is that the same plant had another explosion that killed people several years earlier. This time arouond, all they had to pay was 3 million a head for each one killed until they got hit with one fine for around 21 mil and the second, recent one for over 80 mil. So a government agency gets over 100 mil for the dead and the victims get little in comparison. The people who made the decisions to be unsafe??? Well, I'll bet their stock options didn't get cut or their yearly bonuses. In today's econony 3 million doesn't go very far and is little more than blood money. What is the true cost of a human life let alone a life taken due to negligence? If tort reforms or caps are put on personal injury then increase the criminal penalties for those whose negligence causes the injury or death. There needs to be some deterent. And cutting costs of health still isn't going to amount to crap to people without jobs. Cutting costs isn't going to keep uninsured Americans and illegal immigrants (from any country not just Mexico) from using emergency rooms as primary care. Both of these parties need to cut the partisan bickering and start making hard choices to help all Americans.

Oh by the way,,, the promises of lower insurance never happened. And buried in the tort reform bill was more legislation that made it nearly impossible to sue unscrupulous builders, developers and real estate agents. So, the rights of the individuals in Texas to seek civil compensation for damages and fraud were vastly reduced. And you Republicans keep screeming about Democrats infringing on your rights.

The insurance co's rip the Docs off with the cost of malpractice insur. but it still is not a good Dr's practice breaker by any means !

Why have they waited so long? They were in control from '94 to '06 and the insurance companies raping of the people was just fine with them....truth be told, it still is.

BTW, Oklahoman, I've heard you no longer cover your employees with health insurance.

The biggest cost is the 1,000 percent more we pay for medicines than the rest of the world does. The pharmacy industry runs it up--more big business for you.

Tort reform passed in Texas several years ago, but it did not reduce the cost to the consumer. 3 of the top 10 most expensive cities in the US to receive health care are in Texas.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/10/health-care-plan-lifestyle-health-obama-health-care-bill.html

Malia, ask any Dr. or Nurse what their biggest cost is and you will find it is Malpractice Insurance. I am certain that most Doctors would love to spend more time with their patients, also, but instead spend most of their time filling out paperwork for either the insurance or government. I can think of one simple change in the Tort laws that would greatly reduce (but not restrict your right to file a suit) lawsuits: Loser Pays legislation. If I have a real grievance against a Doctor, Hospital, Nurse, etc. I would still have the ability to sue, but if it were deemed a nuisance lawsuit, I would end up paying all the legal fees for everyone involved.

I don't know about Tax Credits or how that would work, but I do know that real competition would help. For instance, if I could find the same insurance in North Dakota, that I have here in OK for 1/2 the cost, why can't I purchase the policy in ND? The answer is, the government won't allow me. If government would lift that restriction, real competition would kick in and the insurance company here would have to compete with that company in ND and prices would come down.

My big question to you is this, when Nancy Pelosi unveiled that monstrosity last week in Washington, it was 1,990 pages long. On Monday, another 40 pages in amendments were added to it, bringing the grand total in pages of this bill to 2,030 pages. NO ONE knows what is in it, or knows how it will work (or not work). How can that be good for America?

Two pillars of this proposal: Tort Reform and Tax Credits. Watch. R's and DOK think that solves every problem there ever was.