State Rep. Sally Kern, under fire for her comments about gays being a bigger threat than terrorists, was admonished Tuesday by a group of about 30 people representing roughly a dozen faith-based and gay community groups.
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"Sally Kern's comments were not only ignorant but very hurtful,” said Jerre Fine, a gay airman who served in the U.S. Air Force in Afghanistan. "We need protection from our enemies abroad. We also need protection from within, from people like Sally Kern.”
In the roughly three-minute recording of Kern at a meeting among fellow Republicans, she claimed that gays were trying to indoctrinate 2-year-olds through the school system; that they had infiltrated city councils; that no society tolerating homosexuality has ever lasted more than a few decades and that gays, even more so than terrorists, were the biggest threat facing America. The recording has been heard by more than half a million people on the Internet, according to the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund, which posted it on its Web site.
At Tuesday's news conference, held at the Church of the Open Arms in Oklahoma City, many commented that it was just three months ago that they had another occasion to gather there.
In the days following the killing of Stephen Domer, a 62-year-old gay man, many of the same faces had come together to urge passage of hate-crime legislation that would include sexual orientation protections.
Domer allegedly was killed by the member of a white supremacist group. Kern's critics say her actions have helped create an environment of hate, where crimes such as Domer's killing are perpetuated.
"These words are hateful words and can result in hateful actions. This is about responsibility and accountability for words, not freedom of expression,” said Richard Ogden, chairman of Oklahoma City-based Cimarron Alliance. Ogden went on to admonish House Speaker Chris Benge, R-Tulsa, for not censuring Kern for her comments. He also lashed out at the Oklahoma Legislature in general for burying four hate crime proposals in subcommittees, and not allowing them to be debated and voted upon.
Ogden said his group conducted a poll in 2006 that indicated that more than 70 percent of Oklahomans polled believed hate crime laws should include protections for people based on sexual orientation. However, numerous attempts to get bills passed through the Legislature have been unsuccessful.
"Anyone who remains silent is sending the message to the heartland ... to gays and Muslims, you are not welcomed,” Ogden said. "If she doesn't apologize and the speaker does not call for a censure, the message is pretty clear that the speaker is standing with her.”
Rep. Al Lindley has worked with Kern, and says he has long suspected she was capable of such views based upon the type of legislation she has proposed.
"About once or twice a year, she introduces legislation targeting homosexuals,” Lindley, D-Oklahoma City, said. "But I never thought she would say these things publicly.”
Barring gay books
In 2005, her first year as a legislator, Kern introduced House Resolution 1039, which urged library officials to restrict children's access to books with homosexual themes. The resolution passed, 81-3.
In 2006, Kern introduced House Bill 2158, which would have required the state Board of Libraries to withhold state funding if a public library does not segregate books with homosexual or sexually explicit material from children's sections. The House passed the measure, 60-33. It died in the Senate.
Lindley is among a handful of legislators who have spoken out against Kern's remarks. Lindley said he is not surprised, as he thinks there is significant homophobia in the Legislature, and those who are not themselves homophobic are intimidated by a vocal faction who are.
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Lynn, the scenario you provided is exactly what has been done in this country for several decades and continues to be done every time a small group of people demand that someone like Rep. Kern be silenced.
In answer to the question: "Do comments create environment of hate?" ABSOLUTELY NOT!! The environment was already established by the very people State Rep. Sally Kern was referring to. She's just their next target in this ongoing war.
Todd - Yep, I probably should have written it more clear. It could be read like I was making a statement and not a question so that the reader can make a decision.
Todd - I stated "Was it because he was Gay?" I did not say that he was. As history shows, it is left up to opinions because there is no hard proof. My personal opinion is that the two of them were "trysexual". And yes, one of the thoughts of the illness was alchohol, among others like an infected war wound from his friend that infected both of them...and there is another one. AND, as you point out..all of them are pure speculative. Thanks for the comment.
Mardy - your claim that Alexander the Great was a homosexual is inaccurate. Alexander the Great had 3 wives. His lifelong friend and first General, Hephaestion, also was married to a female. If they did have sexual relations, WHICH IS MERELY SPECULATIVE, that would make them bisexual. Both of them died of short sicknesses (which happened to be after both of them consumed unknown amounts of alcohol.) More probable causes would have been malaria, typhoid fever (both were rampant in ancient Babylon,) or poisening.
For those that really care to know the meaning of the statement Separation of Church and State...go here: http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/12-2-2005-82888.asp. Nothing but facts!! AND, by the way, the phrase Separation of Church and State NEVER appears in our wonderful Constitution. Everything is explained in the link above. ENJOY!
You are correct David. I wish other individuals would do their research...I guess when people state one thing enough times other people would accept it as fact.
To all the references of Roman Empire and other “long standing” Empires. The Roman Empire lasted over 1000 years (with only a few hundred at its best time). During its most empowered time, the morality of the Roman Empire began to change--degrade. It did not take 10-20-or even 30 years for the degradation but it took well over 100+ years. Homosexuality was NOT the downfall of these Empires, but it was a catalyst. Other factors played a part in their demise. As far as Alexander the Great goes…he died of a “strange” illness, and so did his “man” lover. What the illness was, no one really knows. Was it because he was Gay? Don’t know and don’t care…he is dead and I am alive. Those Empires had no issue with Homosexuality (after several generations of acceptance), and they had NO issue with pedophiles and having sex with young children either…DO YOUR RESEARCH--It was as common as Homosexuality. The point is, those individuals that prefer to reference the Roman Empire better be careful. You cannot pick and chose as far as what is and what is not acceptable that we can take from them. What REALLY destroyed these Empires came from within—Citizens not wanting to accept one another. They destroyed themselves with corruption! After reading posts and participating in these posts, one can’t but think that if we do not start to accept one another, accept responsibilities, and partake in protecting our children and their future, that the great old U.S. of A. will only be a small blimp on the great Empire map of time.
For the record Marty, I think the term comes directly from the establishment clause in the first amendment which says the government shall make no law respecting an establisment of religion. It has been interpreted to mean the government may not among other things favor one religion over another as they did in England which you correctly point out. The other part of that statement in the first amendment as you mention is called the free exercise clause which says the government may not prohibit the free exercise of religion.
In Response to Kate, Watertown Post at 3:59 AM: Do you even know the real meaning behing the statement separation of Church and State. That statement has been abused since the 50's and 60's. Do you know what that actually means? Does ANYONE actually know why we have that saying? Here is a clue.....IT IS IN THE STATEMENT ITSELF. There shall be no Church...and type it again..CHURCH affiliation or a Church co-mingled in Government. Our founding fathers did not want the same thing to happen in America that happened in England with the “CHURCH” of England. AT NO POINT DOES IT MEAN SEPARATION FROM GOD AND STATE or RELIGION AND STATE. Don't believe me? GO READ THE DOCUMENTS IN THE SMITHSONIAN AND ALL THE WRITINGS ON THE MONUMENTS. People who throw that statement around just show how ignorant they really are on the subject! I am so sick and tired of reading ignorant statements from people who just want to say anything and not add value to such an important topic such as this.
Hi there, mind if I add a bit? As I posted on the other Sally Kern board, freedom of speech is not a blank check. If you yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre, you can be prosecuted for any deaths caused by the resultant stampede. You can be sued for things you say or write that are slanderous or libelous. The word "free" in "free speech" does not translate to "irresponsible" and that's that. As far as being a Christian goes, I will quote Mohandas Gandhi: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Peace to you and yours.
***In order to understand problem with Sally Kern's speech; let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second. Suppose a gay politician got up and said that the "straight agenda" was a great threat to America than terrorism. Or that "straight people are trying to "indoctrinate" our two year olds. Or straights had "infiltrated" our city councils. Surely, people would think that they are listening to a nut who deserves to be ignored and certainly should never be trusted with a public office. Well, now may know how gay people feel when someone sees them as a "threat" for asking for the same human rights we all enjoy.
***One might say, though, that while the speech might be offensive, it would not constitute threatening "hate speech." Straight people might be insulted or angered by such talk, but certainly not threatened. True, but then again straights are in the majority in our society. So let's change our hypothetical situation a bit.
***Now imagine that a white couple, living in some country where they are a definite minority, say some place like Zimbabwe, hearing a recording of a black politician from that country expressing similar views to Kern's except that this time instead of using the words "gay" or "homosexual", he used the word "white." Now "white people are greater threats than terrorists" and "white people must not be allowed to indoctrinate our children" or "the white agenda" must be rooted out and opposed by all available means. Wouldn't in this case, the feelings of this couple go beyond merely being offended? Wouldn't the fact that these words might incite someone take direct action against this "threat" cause them to feel what gay Americans feel when they hear a politician in Oklahoma make these statements?
I think they would, and this is why Rep. Kern should realize that words have consequences, especially when they come from someone involved in serving all the people.
Church and State should never be mixed. This individual should either resign or be mandated out of office. "But according to God's word..." The bible was written by human beings. I think someone most definitely needs to start a petition to remove this individual from office for violation of the Constitution of the United States! (Legislator basing decisions upon personal religions beliefs.) And above all, how dare you compare homosexuals to terrorists. Homosexuals don't kill thousands of people in the name of their god. This individual is more like a terrorist, using god as a reason to harass homosexuals unlawfully. Not to mention the hate-crimes which will inherently increase state-wide against homosexuals for all of the regulations put in place against human beings. This is the same type of person who would have done and said the same things about African-Americans during their struggle with these types of people being in undeserving (and overly personal) power.
The first amendment gives Kern, and the rest of us, the right to voice our opinions. It doesn't say anything about their having to be right, or even make any sense. The most remarkable thing to me is the number of factual errors Kern apparently believes. She says no society which tolerated homosexuality has lasted more then a few decades. History must not have been her strong suit. She seems to have forgotten the Greek city-states or the five hundred-year plus dominant culture of the Roman Republic and Empire. Perhaps she doesn't recall that Julius Caesar was bi-sexual. Alexander the Great and his aide-de-camp had a relationship that, as far as I know, lasted until Alexander's death. Roman, Greek and Etruscan societies all had a casual attitude about sexual practices that, until recently, were illegal in most of the United States. Some still are. I have no problems with male homosexuals who are smart and sensitive enough not to hit on me. I have no problems with Lesbians at all. After all,I like women too, and it doesn't bother me that there are women who share that interest. I don't really know much about the subject, but it's my impression that they have been around in about the same numbers throughout history. Our society, for some reason, has always had some twisted attitudes about "normal" sex, so it's hardly surprising that many of our people are still homophobes. It's only recently that many American parents have come to believe that sex is something that they not only could, but should talk about with their children.
Even more ridiculous than that however, is Kern's insistence that same-sex relationships are more dangerous and destructive than war with fanatic Islamists. I thought that peculiar belief was answered rather well by the National Guardsman who returned wounded from Iraq. He clearly didn't share Kern's warped view. Like me, he is a heterosexual, but that hasn't made him stupid enough to support Kern's bizarre views. I do believe the gay community is wrong about one thing though. While it is true that Kern's comments encourage hate in others, they don't do nearly as much harm to the gay community as they do to Kern herself. Enlightened people will pray, or at least hope, that she can correct her ways.
Paula...did you not read where I said, "I am not judging you or any other Gay individual?" I do not have to judge any one...that's God's task. I have learned in the past few days that there are "Gay Churches." I did not know there were Gay Churches. I am interested in learning what Gay's believe. And yes, I have been approached by a Gay person more than once in my lifetime. As a teen, I had a friend that was Gay. As an adult I have had several friends that were Gay, Lesbian, Bi-Sexual, and one fellow that was a Trans-sexual. In my neighborhood, I know (notice I did not say "know of") two couples that are Gay, and consider ourselves friends. I have no desire in becomming a homosexual, but I would like to know more about their relationship with God.
Dennis, it sounds to me like you are taking it upon yourself to judge someone else, which the bible tells you not to do. Or do you somehow think it's okay for you to do something the bible says not to do, but it's not okay for someone else to do something the bible says not to do? Somehow one is worse than the other? __________________ Chris, McLoud, Have you ever encountered a homosexual person who tried to convert you to homosexuality? Have you ever met a gay person who invited you to just "TRY" gay sex and then make up your mind whether or not you liked it? Have you ever had a gay person tell you that you are going to burn in hell because you are straight? I have never encountered that sort of thing from a gay person. But I have encountered several Christians in my lifetime who do that sort of thing. So who is forcing their lifestyle upon whom? Honestly, no one is asking you to be gay. No one is asking you to adopt the "homosexual lifestyle" for yourself. (which is a term I hate to even use, because the lifestyles of the homosexual people I know are as diverse as the lifestyles of the heterosexual people I know.) LGBT people want equality under the law, and the ability to just LIVE without fear. Ask the family and friends of Steven Domer about that; Steven was brutally murdered by members of a white supremacist group JUST because he was gay.
Gary, Oklahoma City (3:56 PM)...I would like to ask a question, and believe me, I am not judging you or any other Gay individual. Do you sincerely believe that one day, as you stand before God, and proclaim that because you lived and loved honestly during your life time, that you will enter into the Kingdom of God? Are you making this statement as one who no longer participates in the homosexual lifestyle and has a relationship with God?
I am a Christian, straight, married mother. I grew up So. Baptist. I am a Sunday School teacher. I am embarrassed and angry with this woman. She is teaching hate, not truth. She has no evidence to back up these statements. I have never had any gays try to turn me gay, most are just quiet about their life and hope that I won't be rejecting. My kids have both gone through early childhood education and never learned anything about being gay or any of that crap she claims. Gays are not a risk for national security, but I would say are biggest risk are the lies republicans continue to put out. The bible does say you shouldn't be gay, but it also says to love your neighbor and not bear false witness. I am so tired of this whole argument.
Words are only hurtful to those that have nothing meaningful in their lives. I've been called all sorts of names throughout my life, and have yet to really care about any of them, but to be labeled a homophobe just because you disagree with homosexuality is bogus. I'm not homophobic the least bit, but I still think homosexuality is immoral. I'm not going to go 'gay bashing' or anything of that sort, but I'm not going to support that lifestyle either. It's not intolerance or homophobia, it's standards. You have yours, I have mine. Once you start tolerating everything, then you have lost your expectations. I'm not going to try to change a gay person from being gay anymore than I would try to teach a fish to walk. You can live however you want, but don't try forcing your way of life on me, or try to force me to like something I whole-heartedly disagree with.
As for 'hate-crime' bs, I don't agree with any of it. If you maliciously attack another, then it's a hate crime. It really doesn't matter if the reason was for sleeping with your sister or wearing a rainbow. Hate is hate, it doesn't recognize laws. I have more to say, but my rant has gone on long enough.
Danny, I'm sorry but we're trying to have a rational debate on this site and you're just not meeting standards. Can you please go obtain some education then come back, mmmkay?
Danny, it's pretty apparent you are not Female, Gay, Black or handicapped in any way. I guess it's true the statement, "there's no substitute for experience".
If gays can express themselves than straights should be able to. Gays need to stop whining. They have it easy compared to the earlier years of our country, even the world.
RE Gary post3:56 PM: As you should Gary. I believe that is what matters the most. It is what you feel, and no one else! Too bad other people are missing the entire point. Good for you.
David. That is the EXACT problem. People like Matt, and obviously you, believe that the escape goat in all of this is taking God’s Word “literally”. Yes, I take God’s Word literally, BUT, I also keep it in context. You can take God’s Word literally, and take it OUT of context (as Matt did) and make a mockery out of His Words. You are correct in your statement about infallible humans putting in their own prejudices in scripture…that is why there are so many different types of Bibles. Most of them are corrupt and not God’s ordained, inspired Word of God. God told us he will preserve his Holy Word to all generations. Preserve means without error. My faith makes me believe that. Complete your OWN study on the scriptures I provided, and ask God to guide you to believe the truth. You mentioned “depraved lust”. I am assuming you are referring to 2 Peter 2:10. Again, you CANNOT just take those two words and come to conclusion that it is NOT talking about homosexuality. You have to complete an in-depth Bible study, and read related chapters and verses…AND KEEP IT IN CONTEXT. FYI: Although the word homosexuality is NOT in the Bible, the MEANING of the word is.
I just wanted to quickly address "James" post. No, Rep. Kern broke no laws by talking. Similar to the KKK - which broke no laws by talking. However by using the sharpest sword there is (our tongue), we can cause years of damage, confusion and encourage segregation - ESPECIALLY if we are a political figure.
I personally don't care what anyone else thinks of me. I'm prepared to meet God with my gayness intact one fine day and I know He will be proud that I lived and loved honestly.
Matt makes a good point to those who believe God's Word is to be taken literally and is perfect without error. Many Christians believe God inspired humans to write the scriptures and humans of course are infallible and prone to their own prejudices which shows up in scripture. It doesn't mean the Bible isn't a book of truth. It is...just not always literal truth. I also wondered in Marty's post why he thinks II Peter 6:18 refers "specifically" to homosexuality? My translation says, "depraved lust". That could be lots of things. Of course the word homosexuality is not even in the Bible unless you have a translation I have not seen.
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your speech, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ... End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
It's my sincere belief that the representative broke NO LAWS in her direct comments regarding a controversial issuen in our society. First Amendment applies here.... But I wonder, if someone other thjan a State or Federal Official would have made the comment, would some sort of criminal charge be fabricated against them ? We live in a society of double standards...... I support Representative Kern ! Perhaps her delivery could jhave been smoother ?? Perhaps Democrat Governor Brad Henry should have researched all the facts before condeming the representative on a local media station yesturday !
Perfect, and yes "orientation" (not lifestyle - as we ALL have one) someone's inborn, chemical, psychological orientation, like color/gender etc., we cannot teach it. :) God bless
Mardy, I'm not going to debate with you over Gods word, I believe he frowns upon that. Let's agree to disagree. Also, I did not get my information from the site you mentioned. Lastly, I will indeed take a look at your sites, please do me the same. God bless you. P.S. Please read Matthew 7:1
http://www.forthebibletellsmeso.org/index2.htm
http://www.cebiaz.com/book/
Stephanie: You do NOT choose to be brown eye. Why even state something like that. You can, however, teach yourself to be left or right handed. AND, you are wrong about the Sodom statement. I was not saying it was because of Homosexuality ONLY, but their SINS-read my post. You obviously know some of God's Word...but you take it out of context…like so many other individuals trying to use His Holy Word to justify a lifestyle that He has already shown He despises. Actually, God did DICTATE to man. From your posts, then I would surmise you do not believe God's Word as being perfect and without error...and so this conversation is mute. Regarding your passage you mentioned...nice try. Too bad you take His Word in only parts and not whole. Obviously you get your research from places like http://allies.tamu.edu/resources/christianview.htm. What a shame. Websites like this only distorts the truth and places false ammunition in the hands of those that are ignorant. The sins of the people were numerous, but their “trademark” sin was homosexual sex, which is apparent in the original passage as well as later Bible references to the event. The main sin mentioned is sexual immorality (Jeremiah 23:14; Ezekiel 46-56, 2 Peter 2:6-18; Jude 7-19), specifically homosexuality (Genesis 19:4-5; Ezekiel 16:50; 2 Peter 6-18; Jude 7-8). You want more? The Bible provides a laundry list of grave sins committed by the Sodomites: pride and insolence (see Ezekiel 16:49-50; 2 Peter 2: 6-10), gluttony (Ezekiel 16:49), greed and laziness (Ezekiel 16:49-50), disrespect toward God and His true believers(Isaiah 3:9, Ezekiel 16:50), false worship (Deuteronomy 29:23-26; Isaiah 1:10-11; Jeremiah 23:14; Ezekiel 16: 46-56), lies, especially by the prophets/priests (Jeremiah 23:14), violence (Isaiah 1:21) and neglecting the poor and orphaned (Isaiah 1:23, Ezekiel 16:49-50). Subsequent references to the “twin cities” in both the Old and New Testaments use them as a metaphor or simile for many types of bad behavior, by which we get more information about their nature and reputation. Sodom and Gomorrah are also frequently referenced as examples of total corruption, subject to God’s wrath (Genesis 18:20; Deuteronomy 29:23; Isaiah 13:19; Jeremiah 49:18 and 50:40; Amos 4:11; Zephaniah 2: 9-10; Romans 9:29; 2 Peter 2:6-19), including by Jesus Himself (Matthew 10:15 and 11:24; Luke 10:12). Jesus was describing the fate of those cities refusing to hear the Gospel. You want even more? Then go here: http://www.missionamerica.com/homosexual.php?articlenum=33
Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second. Suppose a gay person got up and said that the "straight agenda" was a great threat to America than terrorism. Or that "straight people are trying to "indoctrinate" our two year olds. Or straights had "inflitrated" our city councils. Surely, people would think that they are listening to a nut who deserves to be ignore and certainly should never be elected to public office. Well, now most of your know how gay people think when someone sees them as a "threat" for asking for the same human rights we all enjoy.
Mardy, to suggest someone "choose" to be born brown-eyed or to suggest someone would "choose" to be left-handed etc., is evidence enough that you lack quite a bit of knowledge and understanding. Also, nice try with the Sodom statement. Sodom was not at all about Homosexuality, similar to the story of Gibeah. If you want to know the sin of Sodom, read Ezekial 16:49. To take any text literally is a scary thing, God says, "my people perish from a lack of knowledge" that implies RESEARCH the texts. Man took Gods inspiration, not his dictation. God bless you.
To follow up on my last post. God shows us in that passage I mentioned that we are not suppose to HATE homosexuals. We are NOT suppose to hurt them in ANY way. We are suppose to love them, however, we are (should) not suppose to support their choice of lifestyle...nor judge them..nor put them in captivity. God will do this in His own way.
RE Stephanie's post 11:40 AM: Obviously you are not all that versed in God's Word. Yes, he loves us all. Did you know that He even loved sodom and gomorrah. If you TRULY want to know His Word, read it. He SAVED sodom and gomorrah and used God's people to do it. Sadom and Gomorrah were taken into captivity and abused by other nations that did NOT like their lifestyle, and God used His people to bring them out of that captivity. He showed them His love by first saving them. However, in the end (several years later), sodom and gomorrah were destroyed because of their lifestyle "choices" - sins. The problem is that over the years His Words has been watered down through people like yourself...and that is a shame. The moral behind these passages is that God does love everyone...However, in the end, He demands His Word to be followed.
If Oklahoma City wants to show the NBA (and every other profit generating venture out there) that it is not a big league city, keep letting Sally Kern talk.
My God, I am so saddened for you Oklahomans. Now, please, I'm not judging but to have a representative state such words as Rep. Kern, has nothing less than devastating affects on your community - I am speechless if one cannot see this! Equality in all forms is simply not just good, it's an absolute MUST. History has taught us this. Many times the law had to be changed first and then public opinion followed - and brutality decreased. And as far as the Bible - As a die-hard Christ follower, I had to do my own research and find our creator see's our souls (Galatians 3:28) not our anatomy. We are ALL Gods children whether Black, White, Gay, Straight, Right-handed, Left-handed, Blue, Brown or green eyed. To imply that the only author of life made a mistake is to tread on dangerous waters. God bless you all my family in Christ! Here are two helpful resources.
Rep Kern is just as bad as those Baptists in Kansas who scream "God hates the US" at military funerals. It's obvious to me Rep Kern and those like her are simply FUBAR in their tiny little heads. I hope for her sake she never crosses my path.
Percy, your comments about scabs of hypocrisy and festering sore just disproved your point. And how for the love of God does standing up to hate interfere with economic stimulus plans or bonuses? Where in the hell did that stupid comment come from? And to Rebecca you can stand up for what you believe without insulting an entire group of people. You know hate the sin but not the sinner. It seems to me that Kern's comments regardless of her denials make it sound to me like she hates the "sinner".
Article I. All men [not women] are born free [define free] and equal [except those with slightly different skin pigments], and have certain natural [hear that gays], essential, and unalienable rights [not to be confused with illegal aliens]; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying [only when approved] and defending [don't ask don't tell] their lives [excluding capital punishment] and liberties [liberty as decided by the popular/majority]; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property [Native Americans ignore this section]; in fine, that of seeking [where's Jim Crow on this one?] and obtaining [except through political processes or courts – that’s cheating!] their safety [hate does not exist so why should it be a crime?] and happiness. [Best that we all ignore this last part, after all we have a lot of medaling to do in others lives.]
Really now, her comments do not CREATE an environment of hate; her comments merely EXPOSE it for all to view. And they have. And that is why these high muckedymucks are so embarrassed. It interferes with their economic stimulus plans, their bonuses and their lifestyles. Don't you just "hate" it when the scabs of hypocrisy are removed from Oklahoma's festering sores? Our State motto should read "Hypocrisy Covers All." Quick, run and get a "love and tolerance" bandaid.
And by the way, the gay lobby that makes everything into a love/hate choice - I believe that creates more resentment than anything from people who don't believe in that lifestyle.
I agree with Chris also. I can disagree with the gay lifestyle without hating gay people. It's a big double standard with people walking on eggshells afraid to stand up for their beliefs because they will be persecuted for them - and in a big way.
The silence from the country's Muslim citizens is deafening! I cannot help but be concerned that they are truly afraid to speak out against Kern's sweeping dismissal of Islam. Had she spoke of Judaism or Atheism or Hinduism, where would Oklahoma's Republican Speaker of the House stand? The point is no matter Ms. Kern's intentions, she is smart enough to understand from the nationwide response that some well-reasoned, intelligent address would help heal many wounded. And, if she wanted to, she could explain that she never meant for her opinions to be considered a license to war against homosexuals as the nation wars against terrorists. That kind of encouragement to injure law-abiding citizens is not protected under our Constitution freedom of speech. Leaders know that, and in these violent days, citizens all do well to be reminded.
Just because you have a right to free speech doesn't make everything you say right. I agree with the person in the article above that we need to have accountability and be responsible in using our rights. When public officials make hurtful comments like Sally Kern did it just gives some irresponsible nut case justification for doing something irrational. My guess is Timothy McVeigh had read and listened to enough right-wing garbage about our "evil" government that he somehow felt justified in blowing up the Murrah Building. Hate breeds hate and Rep. Kern is contributing to that by abusing her free speech rights.
Chris & Ray, I believe in freedom of speech... until it causes others to lose their freedoms, like freedom to live without harrassment or freedom to live without fear. Believe it or not, the words that Sally spoke can incite hatred and hate crimes against innocent people. This is where responsibility as a public leader comes into play and freedom to say anything you want to needs to be checked.
Here is what is really frightening. Sally Kern was a social studies/government teacher in a public school. A person who preaches hate about one group often preaches hate about all groups. Can you imagine your child learning in a public school setting from a hate mongerer? I can't.
I guess you have Freedom of speech until people disagree with your view point. I did not find the message hateful. However, if she wants to deliver a hateful message, she has the right to. If people don't like it, they don't have to re-elect her.
Why is it if you disagree with a gay lifestyle it is “hate” yet when someone disagrees with a religious lifestyle it is accepted and tolerated. I don’t say this as a Christian (I am actually agnostic) but as an impartial observer, I see a lot of hypocrisy on this one issue. People can disagree on a political level with someone without hating them. The gay lobby has done an effective job of overusing that word “hate” to where now it is just commonplace. It is not hate. It is disagreement, and that is what this country was founded on.
This story has been picked up outside the state. Once again, a state politician has done her/his best to make Oklahoma look like a backwater. (Remember Frank Shurden?)
Actually, James, 10% of the population is homosexual, but no matter what the percentage, it matters not. You are correct that it is time for Christians to stand up and make their voices heard; however, the Christian voice is one of love, respect and tolerance. Ms. Kern's voice is one of hate, fear, and ignorance. What is really disgusting is that she has attempted to wrap herself in the Mantle of Christ, but her hate speech indicates that she has yet to come to know Our Savior. May God use this occasion to call her and others with such perverse views into repentance for the great harm that they have done to God's children and to Christ's Church. If that happens, then this whole ugly event will have been worth it.
If only 3% of the population is gay/lesbian, then why are they in the news such a large percentage of the time...It is time Christians stand up again and let their voice be heard. Yes, God will forgive us all of our sins, but when the forgiveness take place and we accept Jesus as Savior, we also accept Him as Lord of our life, and therefore a change has to take place. We must all bow to Jesus, whether we do it while we are alive or after we are passed from this life. I know that it is far better to do it now. I love Jesus for what He did for me on calvary.
Thank you!!!!!
Comments made bring negative national attention 03/12/2008 Most of the time Oklahoma makes the national news, it's for something nefar-ious. State Rep. Sally Kern, a Republican representing Oklahoma City, has thrust...
Clipped: Lawmaker's stance not a surprise 03/12/2008 S TATE Rep. Sally Kern's remarks about gays were callous and wrong, and have brought her the sort of attention few seek or relish. What they weren't is...
Do comments create environment of hate? 03/12/2008 State Rep. Sally Kern, under fire for her comments about gays being a bigger threat than terrorists, was admonished Tuesday by a group of about 30 people...
No penalty for remarks against gays 03/12/2008 Rep. Sally Kern will not be punished by the House of Representatives for remarks she made away from the state Capitol in which she called homosexuality the...
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***One might say, though, that while the speech might be offensive, it would not constitute threatening "hate speech." Straight people might be insulted or angered by such talk, but certainly not threatened. True, but then again straights are in the majority in our society. So let's change our hypothetical situation a bit.
***Now imagine that a white couple, living in some country where they are a definite minority, say some place like Zimbabwe, hearing a recording of a black politician from that country expressing similar views to Kern's except that this time instead of using the words "gay" or "homosexual", he used the word "white." Now "white people are greater threats than terrorists" and "white people must not be allowed to indoctrinate our children" or "the white agenda" must be rooted out and opposed by all available means. Wouldn't in this case, the feelings of this couple go beyond merely being offended? Wouldn't the fact that these words might incite someone take direct action against this "threat" cause them to feel what gay Americans feel when they hear a politician in Oklahoma make these statements?
I think they would, and this is why Rep. Kern should realize that words have consequences, especially when they come from someone involved in serving all the people.
Even more ridiculous than that however, is Kern's insistence that same-sex relationships are more dangerous and destructive than war with fanatic Islamists. I thought that peculiar belief was answered rather well by the National Guardsman who returned wounded from Iraq. He clearly didn't share Kern's warped view. Like me, he is a heterosexual, but that hasn't made him stupid enough to support Kern's bizarre views. I do believe the gay community is wrong about one thing though. While it is true that Kern's comments encourage hate in others, they don't do nearly as much harm to the gay community as they do to Kern herself. Enlightened people will pray, or at least hope, that she can correct her ways.
As for 'hate-crime' bs, I don't agree with any of it. If you maliciously attack another, then it's a hate crime. It really doesn't matter if the reason was for sleeping with your sister or wearing a rainbow. Hate is hate, it doesn't recognize laws. I have more to say, but my rant has gone on long enough.
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your speech, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ... End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Your adoring fan
http://www.forthebibletellsmeso.org/index2.htm
http://www.cebiaz.com/book/
Stephanie
http://www.forthebibletellsmeso.org/index2.htm
http://www.cebiaz.com/book/
Thank you!!!!!