"I'm for Sally and also for sending the Gays back to the closet.....Just another Hyphenated American that's bad for the country. Delmer, choctaw - Apr 9, 2008 2:30 PM"

Haha, "gay American" is not a hyphenated phrase, unlike "bible-thumping ignorant Americans", which should indeed be marginalized and are bad for America.

Darren: We agree then the Bible references sex ACTS--glad you continue to highlight that. Therefore, the act of man on man, woman on woman, is repeatedly mentioned as sin and an ACT that should not be practiced. Whether or not you want to relate that to homosexuality, well, I guess word-smithing shouldn't be the issue...but the ACT. For those people that use the Bible to spread hate..well, shame on them...they are worse than the sinner. Please note though, that people often confuse the issue that if you are against something you hate...that is not the case for the true believer. To conclude, I am glad you believe the fact the Bible does mention the ACTS.

"Darren, I've provided dozens of scripture proving you wrong on what you posted apr 14 @ 12:32...yet, you still continue to mislead people."


False. I'm not "Misleading" anyone, and have answered every question on this topic that I've seen. The FACT remains that scripture NEVER ONCE mentions homosexuality. In the OT, it's mentions of sex ACTS, not sexual orientation, in the midst of long lists of laws NOBODY, even conservative Jews, follow today. In the NT, it's quite simply a bad translation (you yourself admit the word didn't EXIST...so how could Paul have used it? He was talking about something else, NOT homosexuality)

"Did you lose the references? If so, I would be more than glad to provide them to you again. Just let me know."

Feel free, I don't know what's new there that hasn't been said before, and debunked, but I for one as a Christian am sick to death of the Bible being misused as a weapon of hate, destroying lives with homophobia while helping NOBODY.

Darren, I've provided dozens of scripture proving you wrong on what you posted apr 14 @ 12:32...yet, you still continue to mislead people. Did you lose the references? If so, I would be more than glad to provide them to you again. Just let me know.

Delmer, it's a vicious an unChristian lie that gay people go to hell. There's not a single WORD in scripture backing this vicious lie, which has destroyed many lives and killed people.
The Bible NEVER says homosexuality is a sin. Not once. And the proven FACT that it is NOT chosen and can NOT be changed proves is NOT a sin.

Mary Francis says-- "I do not know if homosexuals are born that way or if they choose that lifestyle."


Of course you do. It's a proven FACT that homosexuality is NOT a "lifestyle" and is not chosen.

"I DO KNOW I am proud to know I am not one,"

That's a stupid thing to be proud of, like being proud of being left-handed. You did nothing to be heterosexual, and it's no better than being homosexual. It's just a difference. Big deal.

"Thank God,"


A dispicable thing to say, since God created gay people the way they are, just as God created us the way we are. This bigotry has NOTHING to do with God. It's like saying "Thank God I'm not black," when we should all know God doesn't endorse that kind of racism and hate.

"because I could not live with myself if I felt that such a perverted lifestyle was normal."


Being gay is not "perverted," is not a "lifestyle," and IS perfectly normal. People who are gay can, and should, "live with themselves" knowing these PROVEN FACTS, as should everyone else.
I couldn't live with myself claiming to be a Christian while spreading hateful, destructive lies about people that cause misery and suffering and never helped a single person one bit.

"It is not a normal lifestyle"

Lie. EVERY credible scientific, medical, and mental health authority has made it quite clear that it IS perfectly normal for some people to be gay. The only thing that's wrong is your insistance on the inappropriate term "lifestyle." SExual orientation isn't a lifestyle.

"and I believe the homosexuals know this,"

Pathetic as it is, your lies ARE heard and felt by some gay people, causing tremendous misery and no small number of suicides. How PROUD you must be knowing that you're helping to kill people by telling them they're "unnatural" and "perverted" even though it's a lie.

"otherwise why do the homosexuals feel they have to make such a big issue of them telling relatives, friends and such that they are gay."


It's called telling the truth. Did you invite family to your wedding? Then you told them you're straight. Part of living your life is letting people in your family know the truth, and it's only a "big deal" to fools who still believe these bigoted lies.

"That would be like me going to my family and friends saying, hey guess what, I am a straight female."


Which you do every day if you're married, wear a wedding ring, have a picture of your husband on your desk.
And gay people don't announce it EVERY DAY.

"The reason I don't have to do that is because being a straight female is a NORMAL lifestyle."


Lie. It's not a lifestyle. You didn't choose to be straight.
And it's no more normal than homosexuality.

"So explain to me those of you that are gay, if your lifestyle is so normal why do you feel the need to make such a big issue out of it?"


Because bigots like you are spreading destructive lies, and the truth HAS to be told to save lives. Now.

"I don't spew off at the mouth all the time that I am a straight female,"


But you DO spew off hateful lies about gay people, and that they're defending themselves and it seems a strange thing to talk about so much OUGHT to show you how much damage you're doing.

"I have no reason to,"


Nobody's going around calling you a pervert, saying you're "unnatural", passing laws to treat you like dirt, saying God hates you, all because of the way God created you. It's like saying "white people aren't working for their rights." We don't HAVE to.

"so why do you gays feel you have to constantly be spewing off at the mouth because you are gay."


I don't see ANYONE doing that. Not one.


"My guess is you gays know it is not a normal lifestyle and it is wrong."

Lie. There's nothing wrong with it, and it's not a "lifestyle," and the vast majority of decent people, gay and straight, know these PROVEN FACTS.

Your guess would be wrong, Mary. If you were gay, you would feel that it is natural for you, and therefore you wouldn't feel that it is perverted. I'm not sure what you mean by "making a big issue" out of coming out. The reason you don't have to come out to anyone is because being heterosexuality is the dominant sexual orientation. In other words, more people identify as straight than as gay. But to say heterosexuality is normal is to imply that homosexuality is abnormal. Minority doesn't equal abnormal. Don't mix up the two terms.

I do not know if homosexuals are born that way or if they choose that lifestyle. I DO KNOW I am proud to know I am not one, Thank God, because I could not live with myself if I felt that such a perverted lifestyle was normal. It is not a normal lifestyle and I believe the homosexuals know this, otherwise why do the homosexuals feel they have to make such a big issue of them telling relatives, friends and such that they are gay. That would be like me going to my family and friends saying, hey guess what, I am a straight female. The reason I don't have to do that is because being a straight female is a NORMAL lifestyle. So explain to me those of you that are gay, if your lifestyle is so normal why do you feel the need to make such a big issue out of it? I don't spew off at the mouth all the time that I am a straight female, I have no reason to, so why do you gays feel you have to constantly be spewing off at the mouth because you are gay. My guess is you gays know it is not a normal lifestyle and it is wrong.

You obviously do not get my point. Never figured you would. I suppose it always comes down to perspective. The people who are the most against homosexuals do not know many homosexuals. I just wanted to highlight some of your quotes, you should present these to another member of your church and see what they have to say. "I'm for Sally and also for sending the Gays back to the closet" "You are are small voice in the global aspect of society and all you are doing is making noise of which most of us turn a deaf ear. So get out of our face and get off the Bus." Lastly, "if you want to die and got to hell then have at it"

William, If you were to get everything you ask for in relation to gays, slaves, Blacks, Mexican and/or etc. "so called rights" this world and the people in it would be just as despicable or detestable as it is today....as a variation to Abe's comment: "You can please all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time." So with that said, best wishes and may you never lack for something to do! I don't think you will ever rest if you are willing to support such causes as this as there will always be some as worthy. Your choice!

1) I see no one answered my earlier question relating to if a homosexual has ever hurt someone, thus causing rational thinking that they are a threat
2) God's law vs. man's law. I think this is a GREAT part of the debate at hand.
3) Christian numbers, according to Delmer, are falling. Does this mean a true Christian is basing their faith on numbers, or personal belief in the Christian way of life? I.E. 'I'm a Christian because I believe, or I am a Christian because everyone else is'

Delmer, since you are a statistician, could you please find the statistics on the percentage of individuals who considered themselves Christians and then compare that to the percentage who believed in the right to own slaves. If it is too hard to find those statistics, then let’s look at more contemporary stats such as those who reported to be Christians and the percentage of individuals who thought black’s vote was not equal to 1. If I had to guess the majority who called themselves Christians also believed in the right to own slaves or that blacks should not have equal voting rights. I am Caucasian, I am just using this as an example that people call themselves Christians are responsible for some of the most detestable acts known to mankind. Some of the same fervency of the past is in the present. It is just a different detestable act, though equal rights are at stake once again.

William, I agree we are shrinking but we are the majority and will remain so for many years in the furure. And for Paula, God's law is more important than man's law yet we obey both.
Polling data from the 2001 ARIS study, described below, indicate that:

81% of American adults identify themselves with a specific religion: 76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian. This is a major slide from 86.2% in 1990. Identification with Christianity has suffered a loss of 9.7 percentage points in 11 years -- about 0.9 percentage points per year. This decline is identical to that observed in Canada between 1981 and 2001. If this trend has continued, then: at the present time (2007-MAY), only 71% of American adults consider themselves Christians
The percentage will dip below 70% in 2008
By about the year 2042, non-Christians will outnumber the Christians in the U.S.

52% of Americans identified themselves as Protestant.
24.5% are Roman Catholic.
1.3% are Jewish.
0.5% are Muslim, followers of Islam.
The fastest growing religion (in terms of percentage) is Wicca -- a Neopagan religion that is sometimes referred to as Witchcraft. Numbers of adherents went from 8,000 in 1990 to 134,000 in 2001. Their numbers of adherents are doubling about every 30 months. 4,5 Wiccans in Australia have a very similar growth pattern, from fewer than 2,000 in 1996 to 9,000 in 2001. 10 In Canada, Wiccans and other Neopagans showed the greatest percentage growth of any faith group. They totaled 21,080 members in 1991, an increase of 281% from 1990.

14.1% do not follow any organized religion. This is an unusually rapid increase -- almost a doubling -- from only 8% in 1990. There are more Americans who say they are not affiliated with any organized religion than there are Episcopalians, Methodists, and Lutherans taken together. 6

Delmer, people do read the Bible and believe in equal rights for gays. I assume you will damn them to hell as well. I am sorry Delmer if your trail ends here. I am not an activist by any means. Don't use your age to determine experience, and that it means you are right because you have lived longer. I am not going to argue scripture with you, that is not my job. To each is own. The only reason I am truly writing on this forum is to let people like Delmer know that their majority is fleeting toward rational thought and benevolency.

Delmer your religion doesn't apply to the country as a whole. Your religion isn't law. That would be a theocracy. The United States isn't a theocracy, although you'd obviously like it to be.

William, you are more apt to do something more radical than I, you see I am at the end of the trail you are at the beginning or just starting....As for myself passing judgement, well I'm just passing along scripture.... You have the same "rights", as I to read it..... It's called the Holy bible, you'll find information in both the old and new testament. Good Read!

Delmer, just to clarify upfront, I am heterosexual. I find your comments to be forged with very little thought and myopic. When you tell someone that they are going to go to hell for their acts, you are judging them. You should look the word judgement up in the dictionary. It really is scary to hear some of the things that are being said on this forum. It is sad to see that people are so threatened, as if gay people's choices alter their lives. Delmer is right, the majority of people are against homosexuality in America, however, the majority was also for slavery at one point. Interestingly, the majority of people who receive post high school education tend to be more accepting. I believe this is due to learning about the world and our own history. One way to help promote equality is to increase education. I think at some point we will see more acceptance as people become more educated. I am in graduate medical school and the vast majority are very accepting. Delmer I hope you don't do something to radical someday, because you sound as if you are motivated. Don't worry if your gay, you have plenty of heterosexuals that want to see that you have actual equal rights, not the ones that delmer describes.

Well it appears to me that when it comes to "equal rights", as noted in the letters below referenced to me that at least a couple folks and possibly a few others think they should be afforded them. Let's clarify "Equal Rights", once you do that you'll find that you have them, just as I do. What you want is to twist and change present rights to suit/match your desires, whims or wants.....get it? Now that we have cleared that up let's address the idea that Oklahomans are behind times and are not aligned as part of the majority opinion throughout America..... I have been many places in America over recent years years and we may just have to agree to disagree about this one. However I think that in some places others are more tolerant of gays but it's not that they accept them or agree with their lifestyles. I also don't think there are conspiracies out there to get all you folks in church somewhere..... if you want to die and got to hell then "have at it". I'll not judge you nor do I have any influence in the matter.

A legislator lied? I'm shocked, shocked that an Oklahoma legislator lied! Didn't anybody there see her lips move?

Now what is it about an alleged "Christian" who claims that God has made everything so very clear. . .yet cannot seem to remember or understand what words falls out of her mouth?

Gosh, Delmer. . .I'd kinda like the con-artist, self-claiming "Christians" to back off and just quit expecting everyone to be forced to adhere to their manufactured beliefs. Who told you that you represented the "majority?" At least the gays ain't knocking on my door trying to recruit me into attending their "Church" or disrespecting my right to worship as I choose. Yet every day, all over the media, some con-servative dominionist group is demanding everyone adhere to their fundamentalist hocus-pocus. Maybe if you people would learn to choose a church to enrich your OWN lives instead of running around demanding that everyone else join the sheep parade, people would pay more attention to this constant bleating and demonizing of others. I'm rather tired of people telling me that in America, everyone is equal - if you are a member of the Baptist Church.

Delmer, I hate to inform you but the majority of the rest of the civilized world DOES accept homosexuality. That doesn't mean they all engage in homosexual activity, just that they don't care one way or the other. Keep in mind, Oklahoma is not the majority of the U.S. and the U.S. is not the majority of the civilized world. Oklahoma is about 25 years behind, socially speaking. With all due respect, no one is going to back down when it comes to equal rights. Maybe the majority of people you know are closed minded and unaccepting but thankfully the majority of civilized people aren't.

I don't mean to be overly harsh here but the gays need to back off and just quit expecting others to accept them as they are. We don't generally accept that kind of lifestyle and by the way we are the majority not you! You are are small voice in the global aspect of society and all you are doing is making noise of which most of us turn a deaf ear. So get out of our face and get off the Bus. How can so many of us be of the same opinion and you want US to change?

Hell, all of you are NUTS!!!!!!!!

Now, now Troy. The last time I read your post you were down on the Tulsa World for not running immigration articles when you wanted them to and you said "at least" the Oklahoman did that! So much yelling is alzhiemering your brain. What you might do, in my humble opinion, is to try to hit the submit button more often than the delete key. Check the proximity of those when you get a chance.

Troy, did you ever stop to consider that someone found your language offensive? If you use derogatory terms to reference the gay community, your posts will probably be deleted. Try using less hateful words and your posts will remain.

Rufus, no one said she supported anti-discrimination laws. The only thing that was said was the truth. Everyone at PFLAG was very careful about reporting ONLY what was said and not reading more into it than what was there. WE did not misrepresent her views. IF they were misrepresented (and I've yet to see where they were) they were misrepresented by someone other than us. Sally Kern is only trying to further vilify the gay community with these statements.

TO THE PERSON AT THE DAILY OKLAHOMAN THAT IS DELETING COMMENTS. I SEE YOU WANT TO DO ALL THE POSTING ON THIS SITE. GO AHEAD AND POST TO YOUR HEART'S CONTENT AND HAVE FUN COMMENTING BACK TO YOUR OWN COMMENTS. WHAT A FARCE. TULSA WORLD HAS A MUCH BETTER PAPER AND A HECK OF LOT MORE CLASS THAN THE HILLBILLY DAILY OKLAHOMAN. PLUS, TULSA WORLD DOES NOT HAVE A WEIDO LIKE YOU POSTING ON THEIR SITES.

I meant to say 'think' not 'thing', my apologies.

GW Bush is secretly pushing the homo agenda. Thank goodness for OBAMA! He will put a stop to the madness! This message brought to you by the letter R.

No problem Deborah, just seeing it for what it is. This whole issue is just out of hand and shouldn't have started in the first place. Kern shouldn't have said what she did, and the gays (hey guys, I one of them) shouldn't have done what they did. But, the fact of the matter is, both sides did engage in this verbal mudslinging, so make the best of it. As for a gay activist trying to reach an office of 'power' to promote his or her personal ideas.... um, doesn't that happen with EVERY politician now-a-days?

Russell, you said it all and so eloquently. Equality, that's it in a nutshell. Nothing unfair or threatening about that. I wish there were more like you responding to this injustice. Thank You

Ok, let's put this in perspective: Anyone who's name begins with the letter "R" will be ridiculed, tormented, called names, and worry about loosing their job at work, Ect. Then, to top it all off, A senator comes along and says 'People whose name begin with the letter "R" are the biggest threat to this country.' Do the R's have a choice? They can't help that their name begins with that letter. Most of them are nice, decent human beings who just want to live without fear of name-calling and possible violence. Do you see how all this seems in perspective? The R’s do not want to take over the world, they do not want to take over your job, and they do not want to take over your ‘morally’ sound life. They just want equality.

It's just a shame that closed minds don't come with closed mouths.

I can't tell by reading this if she lied. But it doesn't matter, she's still a religious nutcase and should be voted out of office ASAP.

"Kern twice agrees with PFLAG supporters that gay Americans should not be fired from their jobs simply because of their sexual orientation." That does not mean Ms. Kerns supports affirmitive action for gay rights as the activists attempted to put in that light. She did not lie.

The UnOklahoman is now pushing the homosexual agenda.Are they not satisfied in serving as a shill for the cheap labor crowd with their pro-illegal immigration propaganda.Devona is the "diversity" reporter.How cuddly pc.Boycott the UnOklahoman.

Look, the only people who are going to put a stop to anything is the general public. There is nothing here to fear. I promise you. Homosexuals are no more dangerous than the rest of society. I want all of you to thing of one instance where a homosexual tried to hurt, rape, assault, or otherwise physically abuse you.

She didn't lie Paula, they took what she said out of context.

It not about some party or my way is the only way attitude Rufus. What it is is that everyone wants to be treated fairly. Its not fair that someone stand up and say the things she said with no documentation, no solid ground to stand on. That gay people were worse than terrorist? Do you think for one minute that any "group" of individuals, be it white, black, hispanic, asian....etc. would not stand up and say HEY this is not right. We are a peaceful people, we work, pay taxes, raise families just like alot of others. Equal rights is what is all about. There is no danger.

I am a happily engaged heterosexual male. I have friends who are homosexual. People who say that homosexuality is a choice obviously do not know many gay people. As someone who is in the scientific field, it is obvious that this is something that surfaces at the genetic level. Just like every part of us is. It hurts me as a human to hear people talk negatively toward gay people and to say they have an agenda, thereby implying a negative connotation. Their said agenda is equality, I don't think that is a bad agenda. It is funny when people use christianity to vilify homosexuality, yet where were these fervent individuals during slavery. Very sad days we are going through in America.

They posted these recordings (which by the way were APPROVED by her and her staff) to prove that she lied after the meetings were over. No one distorted what she said. It's right there on the tape.

What's left to say? I heard enough from the narrow minded individuals who haven't a clue about gay people and to scared to open themselves up to find out. Sally has every right to say what she wants but so do the rest of us. She and her flock are living in the old, life fearing days that God is truly evil to those who don't believe as they do. My God is not evil and loves me for who I am. I wonder.....do the Kerns have a compound somewhere? Oh wait, different Christian (I am the ONLY way) belief system. Nevermind ....

Homosexual activists always distort the facts. That’s why they chose that lifestyle. They also totally ignore the health consequences of said actions. That’s why they can’t donate blood because of their increased risk in diseases. It doesn’t surprise me that they would pull a fast one like this.

What is it with NewsOK? Why are they so preoccupied with Rep. Sally Kern? What is NewsOK hoping to achieve? If NewsOK gave this much attention to Child/Domestic Abuse, or the problems with a defunct education system, then something might get done. But to keep bringing up this whole matter between the gay population and Sally Kern is absolute nonsense.

I'm for Sally and also for sending the Gays back to the closet.....Just another Hyphenated American that's bad for the country.

Go Sally !! You have the right to free speech just like everyone else.

Gay activists have proved again and again they will stop at no smear type tactics to further their agenda of gays being giving preferential treatment in hiring and promotions in the workplace.

Troy, being gay does not make you a pervert. Get a grip. Sally is milking this for all it is worth. She needs to get a life and go away! (And this coming from a happily married, white, hetero female)!

Thats right Sally, don't back down and stand your ground.