OKLAHOMA CITY - Gov. Brad Henry's desk is the next stop for legislation given final approval by the Oklahoma House Monday that supporters said will protect students' rights to express their religious viewpoints in public school classrooms.
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Opponents warned that the measure may have unintended consequences and could lead to classroom confrontations and disruption.
"If we're going to have school, then we need to forget about this," said Rep. Ray McCarter, D-Marlow, a former school administrator. Under the bill, a student with a different religious viewpoint than one expressed by another student could pontificate to his classmates and disrupt class, McCarter said.
"It could be a radical Muslim. You can't stop them," he said.
House members voted 70-28 to send the Senate-passed bill to Henry. A spokesman for the governor, communications director Paul Sund, said he does not know whether the governor will sign it.
Although lawmakers passed the measure, an emergency clause that would place the bill in effect upon the governor's signature failed to get the required two-thirds vote of the 101-member House.
Supporters said the measure codifies a series of U.S. Supreme Court decisions concerning religious expression in public schools and will serve as a guide to public school administrators on what kind of religious expression is permitted in the classroom.
"This bill will prevent frivolous lawsuits," said its author, Rep. Sally Kern, R-Oklahoma City. Kern said it will help eliminate the kinds of situations in which the American Civil Liberties Union has sued a school system over religious expression in schools.
"It will save our schools a lot of money," she said.
Kern also said it will give school religion clubs and individual students new support to express themselves in school.
"Unreasonable fear of lawsuits currently leads many school officials to unnecessarily censor students," Kern said. "This bill simply ensures that students' First Amendment rights are protected."
"This will make a statement to the students of Oklahoma that we support you," said Rep. Mike Reynolds, R-Oklahoma City. "America is a Christian nation."
But McCarter and others said they are concerned about the possible consequences of the bill, particularly classroom confrontations over differing religious viewpoints.
"This is a lot more dangerous than you think it is," McCarter said.
He said the bill is not needed because religious expression is already allowed in Oklahoma schools.
"They have prayer at the flagpole. Nobody discriminates against that," McCarter said. "They can pray all day long in that school class if they want to."
Rep. Ed Cannaday, D-Porum, described the legislation as a "very serious, problematic bill for our schools."
A former school teacher and administrator, Cannaday said he never had a problem in leading students in a discussion of the spiritual nature of things.
"This bill is so unnecessary," he said.
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press.
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Is this even more posturing to try to give us the impression that real issues are being hammered out in this legislative session? I think several of our representatives should be awarded Emmys or Oscars. What would really impress me would be if some would add a tap dance routine to their acts. Shave and a haircut, two bits...
Thanks Russel... it is ridiculous when people have no idea what our forefathers believed and pretend they would concur with modern-day religiosos. Most modern Christians would be apalled by the actions and words of our forefathers.
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble.
As quoted in Benjamin Franklin: An Exploration of a Life of Science and Service (1938)
Downtown, I really like you. You are showing that this country wasn't based upon christian values, but rather the idea that one can choose to worship/not worship as he/she chooses.
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect”
James Madison quotes (4th US President (1809-17)
"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries."
-- James Madison, letter objecting to the use of government land for churches, 1803, quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!
It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Apocalypse], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825
History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness. [George Washington, address to Congress, 8 January, 1790]
Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society. [George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 726]
In fact... just as an example... ben Franklin is often referred to as a "Godless womanizer." He was quite popular in Paris when he was ambassador to France. He attended many parties and was involved in many "unsavory" actions. He also quite vocally opposed religious dogma and believed true virtue was from public service and responsibility.
Brock from Beaver... mentioning God was common in our founding father's time and was not considered religious expression... sort of like saying "Thank God" today. Our founding fathers were mostly "Deists" who felt God had little to do with the affairs of people but hoped for his blessing on their efforts. You, sir, are the one following a "revisionist" history of our country. You probably think "In God We Trust" was always a national motto and that "Under God" was in the original pledge of allegiance... well these phrases were recent additions to the national stage. America was not founded as a theocracy and not upon any religious ideals... it was founded on ideals of Freedom.... that was freedom to believe or not believe... to participate in Religious services of your choice... to not be coerced by any Government entity toward any system of religious beliefs. A complete separation of Church and State has been necessary to maintain this level of freedom because Christians have always tried to inject their spiritual values into the public forum at the expense of all who may disagree with their convictions. It's not about telling religious people they are wrong or bad, it's about religious people realizing their beliefs are not always shared or correct and they have no right to enforce their version of morality or values through legislative action.
Krusader Kern has just changed the majors of many students who were in colleges of education. I would not teach in a public school in this state for any reason since wingnuts like Kern are destroying the world with their stupidity in the name of religion.
Religious expression like Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Franklin, Madison, etal... portrayed in our founding documents, tells me this initiative is an affirmative action to recognize our countries foundation of belief in a higher being. As this bill goes forward, our founding fathers continue to outlive the history revisionists (Democrats), even these of the 21st century. ; )
Religious expression is already protected in the classroom. Students can witness about their faith, hand out religious materials, bring Bibles and read them, pray, have religious clubs (if such extra-curricular clubs are already allowed), and wear religious symbols (with some exceptions for dress codes). They may do this as long as they do not disrupt normal classroom procedures. This bill is simply giving a bunch of 3rd rate politcos a way to preen for the public.
Religious zealots have a big surprise coming when the constitution is upheld and TRUE American tradition tells them to keep their beliefs to themselves and they must quit trying to legislate their values. Christians have been overstepping their limits for some time now and they will soon realize, even amongst people who claim to be Christian, there are too many differences in beliefs to allow government and religion intertwine. Government is business, irrespective of religion.... and Religion is personal beliefs and values, irrespective of government. Kids do not need to take time to discuss religion or their beliefs in school... they need an education. The other things are for the home and family. Kern is a proven idiot. She is a megalomaniac trying to push her agenda on the public.... and she calls gay people agenda pushers!!! HA!! She is nothing but agenda, she is not representing the people of Oklahoma... she is representing herself. Such selfish and narrow agendas need to end and true, respectful, intelligence needs to again govern our country.
I agree with Mr. McCarter. The public school classroom is not the place to preach religion. This is case of Churches wanting to control schools like they did before they became supported by taxes.
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As quoted in Benjamin Franklin: An Exploration of a Life of Science and Service (1938)
faery13 James Madison (4th US President (1809-17),
James Madison (4th US President (1809-17)
James Madison quotes (4th US President (1809-17)
-- James Madison, letter objecting to the use of government land for churches, 1803, quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
--- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness. [George Washington, address to Congress, 8 January, 1790]