Good point NaTosha. I would also like to know how the grandmother in this case knew who did and did not testify. I don't think its public information. If it is it would be interesting to see. I hope they talked to this child. Perhaps there is more evidence in this case than what the grandmother presents to the public. And where is the biological father of this child? I have to wonder if he has taken any responsibility in this matter. You would think if these professionals have all these reports that the child is in danger and they are legit that the father would have custody.

I have to wonder if William didn't finish his treatment plan to get his children back. The burden is on the parents(not DHS) to do what they need to do to get their children back.

I have a question... isn't the Grand Jury proceedings done in "secret"? Behind closed doors. If this is the case than how does this grandmother know who testified and who did not? If she "knows" the professionals that did not testify than I would have to question the authenticity of the "professionals" evidence and testimony. Obviously there would be a connection between them and this grandmother. I would not believe that a Grand Jury would convene and NOT listen to ALL evidence concerning the child. That would include these said "professionals", would it not? The Grand Jury found nothing to support this grandmothers accusations or there would be indictments. Period. Perhaps people need to take a step back and re-evaluate the situation. I wonder if the child testified before the Grand Jury? They can call children to testify, can't they?

I would like to share something that some may not realize, I learned this fact during my own situation involving DHS but it took a while to find this out because no one would explain it. There are two different standards involved here. The District Attorney and the Grand Jury need enough credible evidence to meet the legal standard for an indictment, the filing of criminal charges. DHS has a different standard. If DHS and their “experts” investigate allegations of sexual abuse and find that the allegations are “substantiated”, that is enough for them to act. That meets the standard for the District Attorney to file a petition in Juvenile Court to remove the children from the home, put them in a foster home, and seek to terminate all parental rights of the “offending parent” for abuse, and seek to terminate all parental rights of the “non-offending parent” for enabling the abuse to occur, and for failure to protect from abuse. But this is in the Juvenile Court which is part of the Civil Court system, divorce, lawsuits etc. This court operates under the Rules of Civil Procedure. But even in this type of situation and action which is common there may not be enough credible evidence for an indictment and the filing of criminal charges.
As an earlier post said we can’t know for sure what the Grand Jury heard and considered because it is confidential just like Juvenile Court proceedings. And I’m pretty sure we would all agree that the child’s name and the family’s names and even the witnesses names should not be made public. But what about other information that is not personal but would help us all understand our system and how it works [or doesn’t work]. Here is an example, the Grand Jury reviewed 32 reports and 16 witnesses were those reports and witnesses from DHS or those who are contracted service providers for DHS? We’ll call this group the “DHS experts”, what are their credentials? Are their credentials good enough to be credible in Criminal Court? And if not should their reports be used in Juvenile/Civil Court to take children from parents and terminate parental rights? It should be noted that a DHS “Child Welfare Specialist” is not required by state statute to be a licensed Social Worker. And if a person works for a DHS contract provider state statutes allow them to practice at a level above what they could in the private sector.
The report said the grandmother provided The Oklahoman with reports from Doctors, Nurses, and Social Workers. We’ll call this group the “professionals”, we can somewhat determine their credentials from their titles. They are for the most part considered credible enough to testify in Criminal Court. But these are the ones the grandmother said did not testify. In a Grand Jury who decides who will or will not testify? It’s my understanding that a State Prosecutor is in charge. So it would at least seem possible that by not allowing “professionals” to testify and only using DHS and their “experts” to testify none of it might meet the standard for criminal indictments and that would mean DHS and other Public Officers and the state are off the hook.

I forgot the X in my e mail...it is
enigmas_matrix@yahoo.com

Jen

I share this grandmother's agony because this is not just in Oklahoma, it's everythwere. Truth never is told because then someone must be held accountable and usually it's a state agency. I know, I lived it as a kid, abused over and over while DHS in Iowa just sat and did nothing. Now, I sit and watch as my fiance's children go through it. Of course, they said the same thing...it's a custody battle. But therapists, doctors, schools, juvenile officer, police, all called in hotlines to DSS in Missouri about the abuse of his children. Sexual abuse, sexual maltreatment. OH the kicker...the first man who sexually abused his son just happened to be the son of the head of the DSS office. Has a history of perping on other children and raped a woman two weeks prior to the abuse of my fiance's son. He walked scott free because some idiot prosecutor sat on the case and did NOTHING. How much sexual abuse can happen before someone does something? Well..apparently 3,000 pages of abuse reports aren't enough plus one forensic interview tape. Disgusts me to no end. The kids? They are still in it with the OTHER sexual perp being there. If for one minute anyone on here thinks that things like that just don't happen...e mail me and I'll show you the proof.

enigmas_matri@yahoo.com

Sincerely, Jen

Well, as far as it just being an abuse of the system during a divorce/custody battle, what about the paragraph that states: "Before the grand jury being convened, the grandmother provided The Oklahoman with copies of reports from doctors, nurses and social workers who examined, interviewed or observed her granddaughter and concluded that she appeared to have been sexually abused."? None of us know enough about the case to decide one way or the other - I guess the purpose of the article is just to get us to look at another issue of POSSIBLE poor choices on the part of DHS, since they are in the news so much in the past couple of years. I really would like to know why these witnesses - the doctors and such - were not called in if they were indeed saying they felt strongly that she had been abused. I just hope we never know the names of the grandmother or granddaughter, really, because I fear that would mean it was yet another case where they assumed it was a dirty custody tactic rather than being objective and looking at the allegations as if there were no divorce or custody issue at all, as should be done, and someone got hurt badly. Just my opinions. I'm just a reader, no expert. I just wonder why they didn't hear that testimony.

I trust a group of concerned citzens coming to a decision to press on or not. In this case there must have been clear evidence that the child was not being abused. I believe that a grand jury will protect a child's rights. My nephew was accused by his ex wife of child abuse because she was bitter over the divorce. People need to stop using this as a tool to get back at their former spouses.

So Glenda, you're saying you know better than the Grand Jury that investigated this case what the evidence was? Or are you just saying that all accusations of rape and/or sexual abuse are "true" regardless of the evidence? That kind of reasoning sounds like that of a certain former district attorney in North Carolina...

That right there is the reason alot of women do not come forward when they are sexually abused. Why go through all of that trouble just to have your name throwed out there an then they do nothing about it. stinks. Bet if it was one of their granddaughters someone would have been sitting in jail. I was abused at 7 yrs old for years an I never told anyone because I knew of the embarrassment they would have put me through. Guess if she would have been killed then they may have done something. Well you know what I would have been alot better of if I would have been an I wouldn't have had to hurt all my life over it. The courts nowdays suck an they are there for themselves not the victims.

The whole system stinks. I was involved in a case where "the professionals" made the allegations which started a long, ugly battle through the court with other professionals making evaluations, and then the professionals that started everything wouldn't show in court to report their findings. And the court was never interested in getting their input and wouldn't hold them accountable for starting the whole mess. A lot of wasted time and money.

Thank God, justice was served in this case!
It makes me sick how the system is abused in nasty custody disputes. All it does is hurt the child. I'm glad the jury was able to review ALL the evidence to this case and come to an educated decision and not base their decision by what they read on message boards. The saddest thing is the time wasted on this case and tax payer dollars wasted when they could have been spent on children who really do need help.

Unfortunately, she probably was telling the truth. DHS turns a blind eye to sexual abuse when a child is in their custody. Yes, I'm reading between the lines that this child is in state care. Too bad the article is so vague that we can't tell who's custody the child is in, or whether it's adults or other state-custody wards inflicting the abuse.

I really hope this grandmother was lying. I'd hate to see another child in danger.