Last-minute battle targets restrictions
•Legal front: Sanctuary status sought
Last-minute battle targets restrictions
By Devona Walker
Published: October 30, 2007
In the final hours of October, the fight to block House Bill 1804 rages on.
On Wednesday, the National Coalition of Latino Clergy and Christian Leaders will meet with U.S. District Judge James Payne to argue for a temporary injunction against HB 1804, largely considered one of the toughest immigration enforcement bills in the nation.Advertisement
What's in the law?
HB 1804 makes it illegal harbor, hire, transport or conceal illegal immigrants. It primarily targets immigrants, their landlords and employers, but has broad implication, said Terrill, R-Moore.
Hispanics across the state, both U.S. citizens and legal residents, are speaking out about the tone of immigration enforcement. While illegal immigration is a problem, many say enforcement should not happen in a vacuum. They also say the government should also look at repairing the costly and complicated visa application process.
"This law is going to affect every aspect of the Hispanic community,” said Mauro Yanez, of Oklahoma City, who is the lead instructor of technical Spanish and a program coordinator at Oklahoma State University. The Venezuelan native and U.S. resident said it has been difficult to assimilate in the U.S. He also says it has been a struggle to remain here legally, and to withstand the visa application process.
"It's a privilege to be here, but at the same time it is a challenge,” Yanez said. "I see so much prejudice here.”
Lindley, too, said legal Oklahoma residents have been forced to live in fear directly because of the legislation.
Loan officers at First Commercial Bank on Oklahoma City's south side say there has been about a 10 percent increase in account closures they think is related to the panic by some people.
"Regardless of how they might want to dress it up, this bill targets Hispanics,” said immigration attorney Steven Langer. "But the impact on this city will not only damage Hispanics.”
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Your thoughts!
Jeff & Ronald Please read this! Quote: Illegal Mexican Workers Could Receive Billions of Dollars from U.S. Social Security System
January 4, 2007 (Washington, DC) – After numerous refusals over three and a half years, the Social Security Administration (SSA) has released the first known public copy of the U.S.-Mexico Social Security Totalization Agreement. The government made the disclosure in response to lawsuits filed under the Freedom of Information Act by TREA Senior Citizens League, a 1.2 million member nonpartisan seniors advocacy group.
The Totalization Agreement could allow millions of illegal Mexican workers to draw billions of dollars from the U.S. Social Security Trust Fund.
A loophole in current Social Security law could allow millions of today's Mexican workers to eventually collect billions of dollars worth of Social Security benefits for earnings under fraudulent or "non-work authorized" Social Security numbers, putting huge new pressures on the Social Security Trust Fund.
If an illegal worker working in the United States today gets a "work authorized" Social Security number through guest worker immigration legislation, the Totalization Agreement, or perhaps just over time, that worker could eventually apply for Social Security benefits once he or she has met eligibility requirements.
In addition, that worker could be able to claim credits for work performed while in the U.S. illegally. The SSA maintains an "earnings suspense file," which tracks wages that cannot be posted to individual workers' records because there is no match for a name and Social Security number. Once an immigrant gains access to a work authorized Social Security number – whether a legal citizen or not – wages earned while in the U.S. unlawfully could be reinstated to the worker's new Social Security account.
The Congressional Research Service reports the earnings suspense file currently stands at approximately $520 billion. According to the congressional testimony of SSA Inspector General Patrick P. O'Carroll in February 2006, "We believe the chief cause of wage items being posted to the earnings suspense file instead of an individual's earning record is unauthorized work by non citizens."
The agreement between the U.S. and Mexico was signed in June 2004, and is awaiting President Bush's signature. Once President Bush approves the agreement, which would be done without Congressional vote, either House of Congress would have 60 days to disapprove the agreement by voting to reject it.
"The Social Security Administration itself warns that Social Security is within decades of bankruptcy – yet, they seem to have no problem making agreements that hasten its demise," said Ralph McCutchen, Chairman of the TREA Senior Citizens League. "Our 1.2 million elderly members didn't sacrifice through difficult times so we could fund millions of workers who crossed the border and decided to work here illegally."
Dave, Blue Rapids - Oct 31, 2007 at 11:30 am
Dave, these people have been in this country for many many years, basically being ignored by our Federal Government. I agree that we have to reform out immigration policy and then enforce the laws, but why do we now want to cause such chaos and hardship to those that have been living here for years. I'm not saying amnesty, but I do believe we should provide some method that would put these people into the system and allow them to get legalized. Yes it may take years for them to become citizens but we should start to get a handle on everyone who lives in this country. These people work under false documents and many pay payroll taxes including social security, because their employers deduct the taxes from their pay. They never get to benefit from any of this money even though they may get help in other ways. I just think this country should do the right thing in the name of freedom and equality. As a Christan who believes one needs to live his faith, I cannot see how anyone should be a felon because they help someone. If the government can make a case against business who are breaking the law then those business should be punished as they also exploit these people. I moved here from NYC and saw the goodness in Oklahoma people. I love living here and I don't think the State should get into the immigration issues. I just wonder how many of the lawmakers who voted for this bill really knew what a problem it would cause in our society. I think there will be changes made to this law that will exempt "humanitarian aid" from the felony action. Oklahomans are proud Americans and are torn by this issue. People are calling us, who don't support this bill, liberals, and that is not the case. I am a Cristian conservative who believes that charity come before the law.
- Oct 31, 2007 at 8:06 am
Jeff & Ronald, that smells like amnesty to me.The line for American Citizenship for Mexicans and the rest starts at our Southern border.They need to go home and apply like everyone else.They got here without our help,they can go home the same way.
Dave, Blue Rapids - Oct 31, 2007 at 7:11 am
I think the State Of Oklahoma should stay out of the immigration business. This is a Federal issue and should be left up to the Federal Government. Congress needs to revise this country's immigration policies and allow those that are here illegally to apply for permanent status. Those that are criminals should be jailed or sent back. Then they need to decide how to strengthen the boarders. The treatment these people get is shameless. The only act they committed is wanting to provide for their families. The Federal Government should have done more to prevent illegals from coming here under our current laws, but apparently its not top priority. So why should Oklahoma try to clean up. This just puts more stress on our law enforcement officers. Oklahoma should be ashamed that such a law was passed in this state, especially during our 100th year celebration as a state.
RONALD, OKLAHOMA CITY - Oct 31, 2007 at 12:02 am
Teresa, I never said they should be able to cut in front of anyone. Maybe we should look at granting temporary status to the ones that would qualify and then require them to work toward citizenship like everyone else, which would include paying taxes. The Reality is that our local, state, and Federal Government has had their heads in the sand for years and now because of their policy businesses that have hired these people with what appeared to be legal documentation under the current system will be punished. Deporting millions is just not a realistic option in my opinion. Anyone who disrespects the flag and is not here legally should pay the price. I have no sympathy for those people whatsoever. There are idiots that are an embarrassment and a part of multiple races in this country.
Jeff, Norman - Oct 30, 2007 at 10:03 pm
If some of us complaint about illegal aliens then we're called racist.But the facts are that illegal aliens do come here illegally and get jobs with stolen Social Security numbers.They then sent 25 billion dollars a year back to Mexico, at the same time holding out their hand for public assistance. It costs the American tax payer around 50 billion dollars a year to pay for their Free medical care,Rent assistance,Food stamps,Translators for their children in our public schools and Free lunches. American cities along the border provide free emergency medical care for Mexican citizens, and what do the pregnant Mexican women do in return? They come across the border to have their babies ( American Citizens).How about Elvira Arellano and her child,she was deported came back,had the child and return to work with a stolen Social Security number,she also had been in our country for 10 years,but had to have a translator at her news conference! Earlier this year illegal aliens demonstrated in the streets of our cities demanding amnesty by flying the American flag upside down below the Mexican flag and carrying signs saying "this land is ours Gringo" I would ask the supporters of illegal aliens what do you tell the millions of immigrants waiting in other countries that want to come here legally? Just because we share a common border that they can wade across to get here,does not give them the automatic right to American Citizenship Its worth more than that! "
Dave, Blue Rapids - Oct 30, 2007 at 8:22 pm
Before The Hart-Celler Act of 1965 (Thank you Senator Kennedy)and the 1986 Amnesty Act ( Thank you Senator Kennedy) most Americans wanted population control in the US.Now we allow in around 2,000,000 legal immigrants a year plus their extended families,(Mother,Father,Sister ,Brother and their children.)That adds millions more.Then you have the 12-20 million illegal Aliens that Congress wants to give Amnesty to.If that's granted,then you have their extended families,which will add millions more.Then you have the 500,000 that still cross our southern border illegally each year.The US current population is 301,000,000,not to long ago we exported our surplus food,now we import half, 36 states have a water shortage,Some studies show the US population at 450,000,000 by the year 2050.Has anyone ask their Congressman and Senators what quality of life our Children and Grand Children will have? Social Security,in 1996 the Social Security Administration signed an agreement with Mexico that will give Social Security payments to the 12-20 million illegal aliens once they are granted amnesty, total cost over 50 billion dollars a year.This type information is at both the FAIR and the Heritage Foundation Web sites.Add the billions each year the American tax payer pays for illegal aliens free medical care,food stamps,rent assistance,translators at schools and we have a ticking time bomb.Amnesty for 12-20 million illegal aliens and endless immigration is not the answer.I encourage everyone to write their Congressman and Senators and ask them what the total cost to the American tax payer will be if they grant amnesty to those 12-20 million illegal aliens,after all you and I and our children will foot the bill for their decision! "
Dave, Blue Rapids - Oct 30, 2007 at 8:21 pm
If some of us complaint about illegal aliens then we're called racist.But the facts are that illegal aliens do come here illegally and get jobs with stolen Social Security numbers.They then sent 25 billion dollars a year back to Mexico, at the same time holding out their hand for public assistance. It costs the American tax payer around 50 billion dollars a year to pay for their Free medical care,Rent assistance,Food stamps,Translators for their children in our public schools and Free lunches. American cities along the border provide free emergency medical care for Mexican citizens, and what do the pregnant Mexican women do in return? They come across the border to have their babies ( American Citizens).How about Elvira Arellano and her child,she was deported came back,had the child and return to work with a stolen Social Security number,she also had been in our country for 10 years,but had to have a translator at her news conference! Earlier this year illegal aliens demonstrated in the streets of our cities demanding amnesty by flying the American flag upside down below the Mexican flag and carrying signs saying "this land is ours Gringo" I would ask the supporters of illegal aliens what do you tell the millions of immigrants waiting in other countries that want to come here legally? Just because we share a common border that they can wade across to get here,does not give them the automatic right to American Citizenship Its worth more than that! "
Dave, Blue Rapids - Oct 30, 2007 at 8:15 pm
Janice, there is a new story the AG Edmonson wants the new lawsuit thrown out. In my response to that article, I propose what you suggest. That is the sponsorship of helping people become citizens. I am not going to just run my mouth. Faith without works is dead. My works will be my physical action, not just pounding on this keyboard.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Helen that was very well stated & Peggy this isn't about hate !!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 3:14 pm
I hit the wrong key before. I obey all those laws and regulations because I am a USA citizen. My bible tells me to obey those in authority and the laws. It doesn't say just obey the ones you agree with or like. You don't get to pick & choose which laws to obey.
Helen, Moore - Oct 30, 2007 at 3:05 pm
We shouldn't even need HB#1804. We already have immigration laws. They are just ignored by a whole lot of immigrants and other people. I have a very dear friend who is Hispanic and has followed all the laws & regulations. She learned the English language and everything else she needed to know in order to take the test for citizenship in the USA. She a legal USA citizen now. She obeyed the law! It's just that simple! You want all the advantages of living in America - You follow the rules and obey the laws. You obey ALL the laws not just the ones you decide you like or think are fair. I don't like the tax laws but I follow them & I pay my taxes. There are other laws & regulations I don't completely agree with or like. Does that mean I ignore them & don't follow them? NO!
Helen, Moore - Oct 30, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Jeff, you say the illegals should have to become legal, but shouldn't they have to go wait in line with all the other people of other countries who are trying to immigrate here? If we let them become citizens before the ones waiting, aren't we awarding illegal behavior? What would you say to those waiting? Sorry, you have to wait longer, this spot goes to the guy who cut in line front of you? They should go home and then come here legally.
Teresa, oklahoma city - Oct 30, 2007 at 2:43 pm
I think Terrill just wants his name in the paper and on TV doesn't matter who he has to hurt to get there. By the way he is now speaking out of both sides of his mouth.
sue, seminole - Oct 30, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Myra, I do not wish harm to anyone legal or illegal & anything worth having takes hard work & sometimes it takes longer than we want it to. As far as the children go I know that American born means American citizen, but the children need to be with the parent& if those parent's are illegal then they go back & come in the right way. I for one would like to see every American family that really does not mind if these illegals go back & come in the front door, help get some kind of program going to raise the funds for these families to do just that . Myra, I believe in the law without it we would be a lawless nation & nobody want's to live like that.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Sharon not all people who speak spanish are all illegals, don't be ignorant. If you were well informed you'd know that an illegal can not enlist!
myra, OKC - Oct 30, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Since the Army is doing their commercials in Spanish, will they be fined if they let an illegal enlist?
K, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Robin, Jeff has a point in what he says, just as everyone else who either agrees or disagrees. You are right about coming here legally. This has been an ongoing problem across the border, to begin with taking care of these issues starts with securing the borders. Let's be realistic about things. Do you really think that the way to do it is getting rid of the millions of "illegals" that are already here, be realistic. Open your eyes. I guarantee you about 60% are employed by McDonalds and other restaurants and the vast majority from hard construction jobs that others won't do. What will happen then. Like I said something needs to be done to stop the influx if illegal immigration, but trying to run them all out...sorry that's not going to work. These "illegals" like you call them are people just like you and me whether you like it or not, they just aren't lucky to have legal status. Correcting this problem needs to be done another way. Can you blame those that came here illegaly by their parents as young children for being here illegally, I know many of them that fall in this catergory and it is not easy!! before you talk look to see how hard it is for them to attain legal status. Not as easy as you think.
myra, OKC - Oct 30, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Kevin - Mary Fallin is now on the boat for Mexico? Wow!! What a change since the election. She was so against illegal immigrants of any kind!! Nice to know a few months in Washington and she is already a sellout. Funny thing..there is an ARMY Nat'l Guard commercial on TV right now...IN ESPANOL!!
K, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Jeff, You & I agree on almost everything you have stated but the problem is that these people are pretty much not trying to get legal, If they were I might feel differently & Lord know's most have had plenty of time to do it in. Jeff I think these businesses that you are talking about built that business on sand , my oldest son & his father employ these illegals & I do not want their business to fail but it isnt like they dont know that the documentation is illegal, so if their business fails then it's their fault for exploiting these people in the first place !
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Robin, I am telling you I have found out for myself firsthand. I have advocated shutting the border down and requiring all of these people already in the country to become citizens within a certain period of time. For the employers to find out on November 1st that all of the documentation they have for these people is fake and for the government to tell them to bad hit the road is not fair to businesses that count on these people. And if you think these people are easily replaced then you are kidding yourself. Like other people have said in this debate, the vast majority of people do not want these jobs.
Jeff, Norman - Oct 30, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Ivan, I definitely do not support the illegals but there is no need to name call anyone on here as they have the right to their opinion the same as you & I.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Ivan, I definitely do not support the illegals but there is no need to name call anyone on here as they have the right to their opinion the same as you & I.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Has anyone out there heard anything about how much money is being offered or accepted to get H.B. 1804 kicked out?
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 12:44 pm
In the meantime, the Bush administration is working to offer Mexico $1.4 billion dollars for their "domestic problems", when in fact the Mexican gov't encourages their citizens to enter the US illegally. What we taxpaying citizens think does not matter. We don't matter one iota to the federal gov't. I contacted Mary Fallin, and she supports the give away of $1.4 BILLION dollars to Mexico.....go figure.
Kevin, Shawnee - Oct 30, 2007 at 12:44 pm
ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS THE ILLEGALS ARE FRIGGIN IDIOTS.
UR MASTER, Del City - Oct 30, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Harvey: If you want your Hispanic friends, family or whatever to become legal, why don't you become a sponser for them? That way, they could become legal almost instantly. Also, you speak about your relatives that are involved with Hispanic men, why don't they get married, another quick fix for becoming legal. Plus Harvey, there is no excuse valid enough to justify breaking the law!!!!!
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Amy, You keep bringing up peoples weight & yes I get the point that a thinner person may be more fit to do a job, but don't count the fat guy out he may be willing to do the job! I know that in construction the process for hiring someone is usually are they breathing, do you have transportation ! Could be that the employer should screen the employee a little better!!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Jeff, Not once have you heard me defend any black, white or any other race about being lazy as a matter of fact I agree with you ! There are just as many poor white trash out there sucking the welfare system dry & I for one would love to see that whole system changed, so you are not wrong that there are lazy people out there ! But the law is still the law & it has been broken! And no Jeff I do not believe most thing's I hear, I usually have to find out for myself before I take someones word for it.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 12:27 pm
I have a friend who worked in the framing business for nearly twenty years. The turnover was great. The legal men that they hired would complain about it being too hot to work or too cold to work. Some wouldnt even return after lunch. Many would arrive late to work or not show up at all. And the wages that were offered were over ten dollars an hour.The work ethic of Americans is not very good. I am constantly posting this statistic, 63% of Oklahomans are either overweight or obese. Which means that only 37% of Oklahomans are actually capable of doing manual labor. Many posters dont take this into consideration. We are a very sedentary society.
amy, oklahoma city - Oct 30, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Are you that willing not to believe everything you hear?????
Jeff, Norman - Oct 30, 2007 at 11:50 am
Jeff, Norman - Oct 30, 2007 at 11:48 am
The truth of the matter is in the past we were not a lazy country. People held these jobs proudly and were dependable. Unfortunately I have to say things have changed over the years. In many intances it isn't about greed like you have stated it is about finding someone dependable that will do the work. Many of these jobs I am talking about pay $10 or more per hour to these people, which by the way is almost double the minimum wage in this country!!! Good for you if you will take the meatpacking job. The problem is there aren't very many like you. I have seen in firsthand for crying out loud and I am not lying about it. I am not running scared at all just having a debate. So what is your solution to the situation?
Jeff, Norman - Oct 30, 2007 at 11:44 am
Yes we can support legal immigrants. My former Pastor of the United Methodist Church was here on a student visa and became an ordained, licensed minister. Last Christmas after his Visa expired he and his family chose to return to Mexico. He was told that if he was caught being here illegally he would be charged with a felony and be sent to prison. He respected the law and chose to voluntarily return to Mexican. He is a graduate of Oklahoma City University's MBA program, he also volunteered to tutor highschool students in Math & Science. His youngest daughter was born here. Yet, because of the laws that exist he was given any consideration and there was nothing that could done. Pastor Eric was not only my spiritual advisor but also a good friend. He was always there for me either in person or on the phone the dozens of times that I had health problems. If I had a choice of him being here illegally and be able to go to his church and be a member of his congregation, or him obey the law and live in Mexico where he is now, I would rather have him here in the United States.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 11:39 am
For 20 years or so, we have looked the other way and taken advantage of the cheap labor that has been available. Now, suddenly it's a big problem and we have to arrest them all. I suspect, our undocumented friends and neighbors will just move one or two states over and we'll have to pay more for lawn service, roofing, etc. It is obvious to me that the whole system needs to be fixed.
Joy, Midwest city - Oct 30, 2007 at 11:24 am
Jeff, Are you that willing to believe everything you hear ?? Do you have any idea what GREED is? These employer's are exploiting the illegal because he doesn't want to pay the higher wages & as for farmers I have no sympathy there they have equipment to handle most of the work & most Importantly if they have to have all of this help, can it not be done as it was in the old day's before they were able to get the slave labor ? Jeff don't stick your head in the sand & run scared IT IS ABOUT GREED !!!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 11:18 am
Harvey, I can't speak for anyone but myself & I want you to know that I do respect your opinion ,but I for one would have no problem taking that meat packing job for $12.00 hr, Nurses work twelve hour shifts almost everywhere & yes it is a different pay scale, but the illegal immigrant will never make what a Nurse does because they are not legal, If anything they are hurting themselves by being illegal , they could have so many more opportunity's (spelling?) by becoming legal. And the bottom line is that the law has been broken & ignored to the point that something has to be done !!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 11:12 am
Harvey - Why do we HAVE to have these people here illegally? Wouldn't it be better to have legal immigrants? Shouldn't you be trying to change laws to help those who want to come here legally? Why is it illegal or nothing? These people are breaking a law just by being here. We have no control over our borders. Sure a nice man comes across who wants to work, but right next to him is a criminal. How do we keep out the criminal without securing our boarders? What is so wrong with entering our country legally? Becoming a citizen?
Teresa, oklahoma city - Oct 30, 2007 at 11:06 am
Oh yes, I forgot one other group! Let's not forget our Native American brothers and sisters who are the TRUE Americans. We sure take great care of these folks now don't we? We came here and stole their lands and their way of life, and many of them get treated with less respect and importance than our dear illegal aliens. What a farce. I say this and I strongly believe it. The day every single legal resident of this country is taken care of properly, will be the day I'll listen to the "plight" of the poor illegal immigrants.
Michael, Yukon - Oct 30, 2007 at 11:02 am
Seems to me the only people who are totally against this sensible bill are the ones who have good reason to fear it - those who illegally enter this country!! Those who complete the legal process are welcomed with open arms to share in the American Dream. I wonder if all you bleeding heart liberals would welcome the illegals with open arms if YOU had to pay for their upkeep? Well guess what? YOU ARE PAYING FOR IT. It's a crying shame when people who were born and raised here cannot get the same guarantees as those who came here by breaking the law. Doesn't happen? Think again! Take a trip to Appalachia and see all the people and the squalor they live in because government will not take care of them. And they ARE Americans. I'm sick of hearing all of this. Come in legally or STAY OUT!!
Michael, Yukon - Oct 30, 2007 at 10:57 am
My grandparents came into this country from Poland during WWII. They had to come in legally even while fleeing from Nazi terrorism. They had to learn the language and assimulate to the American culture if they were expected to survive and thrive in America. I heard over and over how grateful they were for this country. They may not have always agreed with the laws or govenment but not once did they disrespect their adoptive countries flags or laws. They did not expect handouts nor would they have taken them. They did "crap" jobs to feed their family until such a time as they became educated. Unfortunelty, America has become so accommodating that we are catering to the largest population of illegal immigrants which happen to be Mexican. Do we see signs in Vietnamese? Russian? Croatian? Polish? Korean? Afganni? I am not a racist I just want people who want to come to our country to do it legally and above board so that they may have the same opportunities my grandparents had to the great resources of this country when you entered legally.HB 1804 is an immigration bill not a race bill. Its a bill enforcing existing laws that are already in place it just attaches consequences to breaking the laws.
Mikki, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 10:53 am
What evidence do you have that employers can deal with it. Have you ever been in the construction, hospitality, or farming industry. Have you talked to any of these people about the situation. What about these farmers that say there is nobody to do the work if these people cannot? Are they lying? What about the construction people that say these people cannot be replaced because NOBODY ELSE wants to do the work. Are they all not telling the truth.
Jeff, Norman - Oct 30, 2007 at 10:40 am
Robin, I serve my country and continue to as a Veteran of the US Army. It is my civic duty to question an unjust law. Perhaps, Reagan had it right. When alls said and done, it will be the man/woman with all the money that will ultimately decide that we will leave the illegals in place to exploit them as cheap labor. I worked a a meat plant one time in Packing Town. I think I made $6.50 an hour. It was a transitional job for me. We worked up to 12 hr. shifts. Being educated I was placed on some of the more challenging stations. There were numerous Hispanics-some illegal I am sure-trimming fat from the meat and they did that all day. The women placed those ground beef patties through a tenderizer and packaged them all day. There was no variation to their tasks. I know as beyond a shadow of a doubt. NO AMERICAN will do those jobs day in and day out. Not even at $12.00 an hour, oh sure they will try for one paycheck. Robin I and my family have lived in this city off and on for over 40yrs. Yes, I see the "damage" to the Southside, I also see the improvements. There are new businesses popping up. I mean new structures, new buildings, new construction, everything is popping up and yes even in as blighted of an area as SW 29th. If these neighborhoods hadn't of been vacated during the White Flight of the early 80s because dominate society didn't want any part of segregation, the neighborhoods wouldn't have been vacant for settlement by anyone. Remember when OKC didn't connect to Edmond or Moore?
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 10:39 am
Jeff, Take the cost of welfare, health care & adding special teachers to teach the language & see which out weighs the other? If there is a supply & demand situation I think we can deal with it!!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 10:18 am
TA, That was my mistake I meant to say that I thought some bleeding heart would turn it over, I'm sorry about that .
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 10:14 am
Harvey you are entitled to your opinion & as I stated I have no hard feeling's for the hispanic people, but the law is the law and they have broken it! I lived in South Oklahoma City for over 15 years & I drive there today & I see the damage that has been done (NOT BY JUST HISPANICS) but they are the majority that live there now. There never used to be bars on the window's of houses, but there are now! So Harvey you have your opinion & I believe you are compassionate, but you are not even willing to help your own country, so that speaks volumes about you as well !!!! I do not live in any of the places you mentioned & I do my own work , I have no Mexican slaves, Thank You!!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 10:12 am
I agree something should be done to stop the flow across the border. As for the ones that are already here the best thing to do is to require them to go through the citizenship process not deport all of these people. From my experiences the truth is that these people do fill jobs other races for the most part do not want. I have talked to several people in other industries that say the exact same thing. If we do what some of you want then there will be a huge decrease in the supply of labor with the demand for labor still the same, therefore, the cost of labor will increase bringing about a robust price increase to consumers for goods and services. It is Economics 101 folks. Get ready for a huge price increase for goods and services we all use everyday, and those of you who want to deport all of these folks should pay the higher prices and not say a word.
Jeff, Norman - Oct 30, 2007 at 10:11 am
Robin, the bill already passed, was signed by Brat Henry and has already had one judge reject a case against it. However, you are right in that there are too many bleeding hearts in this state to actually see it enforced. But heck, what's the difference? They broke our laws to come here so why not break our laws to stay? After all, now that they're here those who stand to make money off of them are more than willing to help them out.
T. A., Moore - Oct 30, 2007 at 10:10 am
This bill states illegal aliens. Not Hispanics. It is the Hispanic community that is tying the two together. I have nothing against Hispanics in general and nothing against legal immigrants. If we need all these 'immigrants' here for the economy, then the focus needs to be on changing the immigration laws to ease the way in LEGALLY. There are people who are waiting to become citizens, waiting to enter the country the right way. Those are the people we want here. Not the ones that feel they are above the law. Everyone who is here illegally is thumbing their nose at all the ones trying to do it the right way, as well as all citizens of this Nation.
Teresa, oklahoma city - Oct 30, 2007 at 10:06 am
Nobody will say. how many are ok to have come into our country? Do all of you that have all this compassion for illegals think we should just go ahead and let everyone in? If it's ok for the hispanics.. it's ok for the rest of the world huh ? or wait.. It's just for you "special" people. Nope don't hate any of you. If I had a friend that was here illegaly..I would bust my butt to get him legalized like should have been done in the first place.
Mike, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 9:57 am
Robin, all of my family members are Citizens. I always forget that my half-brother is 1/4 Mexican. His father from Kansas City died a few years ago well into his 70s. I grew up with my brother and always forget that he is part Mexican. Am I partial? Isn't that obvious? I also stated that this issue has solidified my position on this issue. No when I started out, I didn't have a firm belief or conviction. Now I do. About calling out the White women, they are already involved. They are not going to let their husbands go without a fight. I hope that there are thousands of angry women at the Capitol on Thursday at noon. That is the date and time for the demonstration. They are calling for a silent demonstration. As far as putting the illegal immigrants to work on reservations and in Casinos, fine with me. I don't live on a reservation or work in a Casino. Living on the Southside of OKC for 7+ years, I was deeply immersed in the Hispanic community. Where are you all from that hate illegal immigrant/Hispanics so much? They earn their SUVs and Pick ups. They used to call it innovative to make the impossible happen. Well these people are innovative to make a life for their families here and send money back home. Do you that are vehemently opposed live in gated communities? Do you live in Gallardia, Nichols Hills, or oppulent estates in Edmond? If you are working class, I don't understand your opposition. I am working class. I get up at 5-5:30 every morning and go to work. Anyone that has to work ought to know that we are all in this together. I am not going to stare at my neighbor and think that he has it so much better than me. I am not going to begrudge my Hispanic neighbors huge SUV. If he wants to burn money up putting it into the gas tank, fine with me. We are all in this life together and instead of trying to make it hard for someone else just so we can feel better inside, we need to help and support each other. Thank you.
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 9:47 am
It may be a stinking pudding.. but it will be "OUR" stinking pudding.. and the economy isn't what this is about either..
Mike, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 9:27 am
Harvey, You stated yesterday that you were a native American with Hispanic neices & nephews, So I do not think you are an impartial party here. You & your family members have had more than enough time to start the legal process evidently you have not , in my opinion that is just to bad , but if you want to keep all of the illegals then you Harvey give them your reservations & employee them in your Casino's as for the rest of us we are sick to death of people that do not obey the law !! This is not a race issue although it probably will affect a lot of hispanics because there are so many of them here . If I went to another country to better myself you can bet that I would have the inclination to do it legally & learn their language & try to be the very best citizen of that country, that Harvey is the difference between the way it should be handled & the way that these illegals are handling it!!! What have you done to help your family members besides call out all white women to protest ?????
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 9:26 am
Well, let's see what this does to the Oklahoma economy. As the old folks say, "the proof is in the pudding" and I think this is going to be one stinking pudding.
sandra, shawnee - Oct 30, 2007 at 9:22 am
Glenda, you need to go back & read my post again I am real sure that I said I think that the illegal immigrants need to go back & come through the right way, I never once indicated anything different I said I did not think this bill will pass because there are so many people out there that are fighting it!! You have no argument with me !!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Oct 30, 2007 at 9:12 am
I live in the hood that many of these folks live in and some of you are right. Many of the Hispanics are hard working family oriented people. This is not what this is about. It is about being a criminal in the first place. Does it matter if they work hard? No, not if they are here illegally. The process is there for a reason. Yes, it is expensive, for a reason. What are the numbers of illegals involved in rape, murder, drug offenses, burgleries and other crimes besides being an illegal alien? If we deport them, will this change? I don't know but we must start somewhere. The feds have let us down and now Senator Terrill has made a beginning. I agree that the religious community should stay out of politics but they never have so what is different now.
Marie, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 9:06 am
My very first friend when I moved back to this city 30 years ago was a Mexican that I worked with. My parents were divorced and my family was poor under my mother's household. I washed dishes at a restuarant 32+ hours a week and all of the teenagers working whether, White, Indian, or Hispanic had to work to help their families all went to school as well. As far as I know every single one of them graduated were alive. Yes, tragedy struck more than once and we lost teenage friends to accidents. My involvement on this issue isn't a Johnny Come Lately situation. I have worked 28 of my 42 years. Yes, I do remember when this city had about 10,000 Hispanics most were Chicano-born here.
To all Xenophobic Bigots. Ha! Ha! Ha! The Native American Indian women with immigrant husbands, boyfriends and fathers of their children and there are thousands are going to take up this fight. Before it is over with, I suspect that all American women will be involved and come on now men, any of you that have been married know that you never win an argument and the argument is NEVER over! HA! HA! HA!
Harvey, Oklahoma City - Oct 30, 2007 at 8:50 am
This country has become not a melting pot but stink pot. The smell of billions of dollars in Iraq, the threat of another attack on another soveriegn nation, the smell of another country's citizens having been allowed unabated by our spineless government to enter illegaly, all are a result of a nation lacking moral standards, lacking an understanding of what our founding fathers created in the C
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