Brenda, wake back up and finish reading :-)

Well there you go. Larry is an admitted bigot. I only got that far in his long, boring post before I fell asleep.

My apologies in advance for the length of the post. It is a detailed response to a previous rant of "Randy, Moore". To all other readers please feel free to scroll right on past it. _________________________________________________________________ In another thread a while back, I suggested you look up the words, yet it still appears you declined, so let me help. _________________________________________________________________ Racism: n. 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. _________________________________________________________________ Noun 1. racist - a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others _________________________________________________________________ bigot n. One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. _________________________________________________________________ By that definition, I technically may be a bigot because I am "strongly partial to one's own group" (American, but that isn't racism it's nationalism: n. 1. the devotion to one's nation.; patriotism) but you can't leave out the last part of the definition, where it says that a bigot is "intolerant of those who differ". While certainly proud to be an American and think this is one of the greatest countries on earth, I don't think I am "superior" as a person than a Canadian, a Russian or a Peruvian. It is that very fact that this country is one of the greatest countries on earth, that has been a magnet for immigrants from all over the globe since it's beginning. I am not intolerant of those from other countries or skin colors different from my own. I am of very mixed heritage (a Heinz 57 if you will). Take a close look at the bigot definition, your posts seem to fit that definition pretty closely...highly intolerant and expressing superiority over those of those with differing views from your own. _________________________________________________________________ Where did I say everyone had to be like me? Never said everyone has to go to the same church as I do (or any church at all), never said someone can't drink a beer at an OU game, etc., etc. What I said was they need to come here legally and become Americans (if you can't see the difference between being an "American" and being "just like me," I'm not sure how to explain it to you). There was a time not that long ago where the immigrants did everything they could to become Americans, in some cases even changing their names (first and/or last to "Americanize" them), adapting the American culture, the American language and the American way of life. Recently the illegals are demanding their rights (sorry, they aren't citizens of this country and the only right they truly have is to return from where they came from) and insisting we adapt their language and customs (they want to make America into the country they came from, but if the country they came from is all that great, why did they leave in the first place?). Those that were demonstrating in the streets and waving the flags of their homeland have no intention of becoming Americans (not saying that they can't be proud of their heritage or where they came from either). We are only expecting of them the same things we would expect of ourselves if we were to move to another country (learning the language and customs). _________________________________________________________________ America is unique in that we ARE a nation of immigrants, but the key here is the difference between the legal ones and the illegal ones. That is a line that this paper and supporters of "comprehensive immigration reform"/amnesty (the current president and both presidential candidates) are constantly trying to blur. How many other countries can you immigrate to and become one of them? Citizenship, if granted at all, is limited in nearly every other country. About the only limitation a naturalized citizen has here is he/she can't become President. Technically they might be able to as I believe it says they can't be "elected president"...in the chain of succession, the Speaker of the House can become president and a naturalized citizen can certainly become a representative and Speaker, so there may be a chance Gov. Schwarzenegger after all. But I digress, if you move to France can you ever really become French? If you move to Mexico can you ever become Mexican? The president of Mexico has talked about granting rights to citizens of his country that Mexico denies to those that immigrate to it (esp from it's southern border). _________________________________________________________________ You said "i know people by name that don't speak a lick of english that are citizens. a couple speak italian, a couple speak spanish, some are even korean" If they are naturalized citizens, being able to speak and write English is a requirement, if they were born here in Oklahoma it seems highly unlikely that they could be born and raised here without being able to "speak a lick of english". _________________________________________________________________ You wrote "...they are every bit if not more american than you." What is your definition of American? The things that bind ANY nation (or state for that matter) together are the language and customs of it's people (not it's racial or ethnic components). _________________________________________________________________ You wrote "i have not one time ever said i was pro illegal. if fact i agree, illegals need to go away. not just the brown ones, but ANY illegal." Glad to see we agree on that one, my posts have stressed that ALL illegals need to go away (not just the brown ones as you put it). That automatically takes race out of it. While you may never have said you were pro-illegal, your posts certainly reflect your anti-anti illegal immigrant position (something that is anti-anti = pro). _________________________________________________________________ As I am sure you are aware, HB 1804 has not been fully implemented yet (the good folks at the City and State Chamber have managed to get a judge to put an injunction on parts of it), so the full effect is still unknown. Even the pro-illegal immigrant groups said it would cause a max exodus. There have been reports in this paper (which is strongly illegal immigrant) of various businesses having shortages of workers since HB 1804 became law. And of course if local law enforcement isn't going to do their part, as with any law, there are going to be people that ignore it. _________________________________________________________________ You wrote "im for deporting illegals. not tieing them up to trees by there necks." And where in HB 1804 is that authorized? Please get a grip here. Who is suggesting that? The penalty for being in the country illegally is deportation (voluntary or enforced). If caught sneaking across the border, are illegals shot on sight by the border patrol or our troops that are there? No! Our troops and B.P. aren't even allowed to defend themselves! They are treated compassionately (in stark contrast to the "coyotes", often their own countrymen and people of their own race, that smuggle them across the border, charging thousands of dollars, packing them into semis with no ventilation, food or water...etc., etc.). If they need medical attention, they are treated. If they need food and water, they are given food and drink. _________________________________________________________________ Obviously you have issues with Terrill as your representative (and that is your right), it certainly sounds like you have legitimate issues and if my representative had done the things you described, I would probably be opposed to them too. But that said, I would try to support him when he is correct and oppose him when he is wrong. If a candidate came along that supported the issues that were important to me more than someone like you described, of course I would support that candidate instead. Since you admit that "illegals need to go away. not just the brown ones, but ANY illegal", you should be in support of HB 1804 because it targets ALL illegals (not just the brown ones as you put it) and those that would enable them to come here and stay here. Again, have you even read HB 1804? Or is your opposition to HB 1804 and anyone who supports it and your labeling those who do as racists and bigots a knee-jerk reaction on your part (if Terrill is for it, it must be racist/bigoted/etc)?? _________________________________________________________________ "i am baffled as to why you love terrill so much? are you related? are you fishing buddies? do you follow every word he says..." Don't know where you ever got that idea that I loved Terrill, we aren't related, we aren't fishing buddies and have never met the man (if I ran into him on the street, I probably wouldn't even recognize him) and I certainly don't hang on every word he says. But he is correct on this issue and I support HB 1804 (in case you missed it this did pass by a large bipartisan vote in both houses and was signed into law by Democratic Gov. Henry. I am not a big fan of Henry's but on this issue, the Governor was correct too. Since Henry signed HB 1804 into law, are you against him as well?

Randy: Seriously, look up the definition of the words you accuse others of being (without one shred of supporting evidence). It is a bet you would lose as not one item you rattled off is true. Please refute ANY of the "goofy trivial posts".

larry is a bigot racist. ive ssen him post on the randy terrill threads. hes just a blowhard. i bet he goes to all the nba games, has a mexican wife, and collects food stamps. he also manages a waffle house. thats why he sounds drunk when he goes on posting goofy trivial posts.

Jill, I only post in response to the mis-information in an article itself or the mis-information that others post. Yes, both of us are guilty of writing posts that tend to be on the long side. I cite many examples to prove the point. If I cited only one, am sure the false claim would be made that I was taking something out of context. Much harder to do that when you cite 10 or more. Often will include the link, article name and date just to avoid those claims (that way, the person I am responding to can see if I am doing that or not). If someone doesn't like the length, they are free to scroll right past it. I do have divider bars to break up the post (my version of the paragraph return which this forum doesn't support). Guess I could post each paragraph as a separate post? But then you have to post from last to first so they would read in the correct order. Yes my posts are the same because the same mis-information keeps getting repeated, so the same answer applies. If someone keeps saying "2 + 2 = 5" why is it wrong to keep posting that the correct answer is "4"?

Larry, I doubt very many people are reading your posts. They are frequently the same, they're too long, and it's over. Move on. The team is here, the arena will be remodeled, and it's time to enjoy the fact that we will have world class professional sports in our city. I can hardly wait to pick out my tickets, buy my first team jersey and/or t-shirt and go to the games. The Hornets games were so fun, and I'm sure the TBA games will be as well.

Philip: please disprove anything I wrote, it is all true. You have written more than once that I have been the one telling lies on these threads. Yet, unless I missed it somewhere, you have not refuted a single one of my supposed "lies" (or even mentioned what the supposed lie was). I have clearly shown the numerous spin, half-truths and lies of those involved.

Blah, blah, blah....another long, boring, rambling post by Larry (that nobody is going to actually waste time reading) that failed to disprove anything I wrote and running right along behind Larry is his dimwitted side kick paul, with his nose buried deep in Larry's behind.

"technically paul, you have no proof other than a conspiracy theorists, bigfoot believing, ufo chasers, paranoia. so everything you say is a lie." Technically, Randy...there is much proof out there, all YOU have to do is read a section of the paper besides the sports and you'll see....I know you probably like lookin' at the pitchers an' stuff, but try and read something other than about sports, ok??

Go easy on the naysayers Larry....type slower so they have a better chance at understanding.....

Quality Jobs program may be expanded (April 6, 2008)
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"We just believe that a revenue-neutral approach to the state is appropriate, and we think this is a significant economic development pursuit that Quality Jobs was really designed to address,” said Clay Bennett, chairman of the Sonics' ownership group, at a news conference March 25. "We think it's a fair and reasonable approach.”
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Wonder how he feels about a "revenue-neutral approach" to the Ownership group? Imagine he would be against that, yet it's perfectly ok for the City to have a "break-even" approach to the lease (Team does very well under the terms). The team gets a rebate on the payrol amount even if it isn't subject to state income tax! Over the 15 year period, the local and State COMBINED gets $11.2 million but gives the Team back around $60 million. Just in case you missed it, thats a revenue LOSS of $48.8 Million. So glad the folks at Enron apparently found jobs at the City and the State!

Oklahoma Governors (past and present), legislative leaders have all repeated the the idea the the purpose of the Quality Jobs Act is not only to encourage businesses to relocate to the state (originally it was manufacturing jobs where 75% of their sales had to come from outside of the state) but to put Oklahomans to work. Again, how many of the 170 "quality jobs" are going to Oklahomans?

What about the claims that the Sonics are going to be bringing 170 jobs to Oklahoma (meaning most of the "quality" jobs are going to be going to Oklahomans)? Can't count the players, coaching staff etc because they are going to be moving here from out of state. Presuming that the players will be moving here, they may certainly get a second home or condo or something, but will they actually become residents of Oklahoma? If there anything in the Quality Jobs act that is going to hold them to the 170 number? If the team opts out of the lease, do they have to pay the state back? Or will this be like the Great Plains fiasco where millions were given to the owners (who turned around and sold the tax credits to others) then went belly-up....the state never saw the money again. Here's some more "untruths" about the the Legislative effort:
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http://newsok.com/article/3231739/
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Jobs: Basketball team thanks state leaders for tax breaks (April 18, 2008)
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"The team has about 170 jobs with a $74 million payroll, said House Speaker Chris Benge, House author of the measure. Benge, R-Tulsa, said the deal was necessary to attract Oklahoma's first own major league sports team."
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FALSE: The letter of intent says that the team only needs UP TO 125 parking spaces (not 170). Most likely the 125 number includes spaces for others besides team employees. Earlier article on ESPN put the number of employees "around" 100 (regarding the leaked story from a Sonic employee about the "hypothetical" things OKC would pay for in getting the team to relocate). Other sources have put the number of employees in the high 60s.
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FALSE: the deal was NOT "necessary to attract" anything. The ownership group are Oklahoman's and have made clear from the start (except maybe when they were talking to Seattle media) of their intent to move the team here. Remember they got fined a quarter of a million dollars by the NBA for admitting this. Clearly you do not need to "lure" or "attract" something that has already told you it is coming. The ownership group didn't just threaten a relocation (as a negotiating move with Seattle), but made the formal fileing for relocation back in November of last year.
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"The change is part of a requested financial package the team needed to make the move to Oklahoma. Economic incentives through Quality Jobs program were included as being a necessary component for the SuperSonics to move to Oklahoma City in an agreement signed between team owners and city officials."
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FALSE: While the request for assistance from the CIty in their attempt to get the State money, IS part of the lease with the City, it is NOT NEEDED (it is wanted, thats all...just as the ownership group wanted the taxpayers to foot the bill for the Ford improvements). At the City Council meeting where the Letter of Intent was approved, it was made clear by a council person that the assistance the City would provide in helping the team with their lobbying efforts were not a financial requirement for the team to relocate.
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"Some NBA teams lose money, he said, and with Oklahoma City being a small-market venue, it is going to be very challenging for the SuperSonics to make a profit."
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FALSE: Yes, some NBA teams lose money, but because of our experience hosting the Hornets, there isn't anything to indicate that it is going to be the case with the Sonics. The Hornets (a temporary team) made a substantial profit both years they were here. The team made $42.5 million that first season (with a guarantee of $10 million). In the profit sharing agreement, the City made $1.2 million in net profit (this was after all of the City's expenses were covered). The Mayor, believes that support for a permanent team will be "... astronomical, not like this city has seen, and it will rival the NBA's most compelling stories anywhere,” he said. "It will be extraordinary." (as well it should be).
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FALSE: We will be a single profesional sport City/State (that's why the NBA will have "value" here and not in Seattle, a multiple pro sport City). The NBA is including Tulsa as part of the market (the City included it as part of the presentation, 20% of Hornet's season ticket holders were from the Tulsa area, the Tulsa Mayor was on-hand to give her endorsement and the Tulsa World gave their endorsement). By extension, if you draw a radius that includes Tulsa, you are including nearly all of Oklahoma as the market for the team. Bennett has said, the team will be marketed to the whole state. Stern said Tulsa and essentially the whole state is included in the market. Lewis Katz, New Jersey Nets owner and a member of the relocation committee, said after the City's presentation, concerns over Oklahoma City's market size are exaggerated:
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Q: What are the concerns from the owners about relocating a team to a smaller market?
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A: Let me say this about small markets. Everybody keeps telling me that you think you're a small market. There's an hour and a half between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. That hour and a half has 2Ũ million people or 70 percent of your state. This is not Oklahoma City. And my view is 20 percent of your ticket sales came from the Tulsa market. I really didn't look at this as a small market.
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"He assured House members that no state funds are going to the team. 'There is no money in the treasury right now going to this basketball team if they come,' Benge said. 'Absolutely no money is going to this organization.'”
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FALSE: While there isn't any money in the treasury RIGHT NOW. Benge described this deal as a "rebate" (you don't get money back until you've paid it in). Combined LOCAL and State is going to get to "keep" an estimated $11.2 million after giving back $60 million. In other words, the State will won't even have all of the $71 million in the treasury, and $60 million will be going back to the basketball team. State funds ARE going to be going to the team, every year for 15 years.

Philip, it is you who needs to get a clue. You are partially correct when you wrote: "Nobody would have a problem with any major corporation choosing to set up operations in our state and bringing in high paid personnel as part of that." Bringing in SOME (meaning a minority number) of out of state people is normal. But lets see, how many of the players, coaches etc are Oklahoman's? How many of those people who are making those 6 and 7 figure salaries are getting a pay cut as the rest of the staff was told by Bennett they were going to get? The few jobs that are left over that will be going to Oklahomans is a very small number and not positions paying the salaries on the higher end of the teams payroll..are they?

No Larry, you are wrong again. As much as the Quality Jobs Act was about bringing good jobs to Oklahoma, it was just as much about attracting top talent to the state. Nobody would have a problem with any major corporation choosing to set up operations in our state and bringing in high paid personnel as part of that. Get a clue, buddy.

daniel, oklahoma city wrote: "...i wouldnt mind a nhl team like they said they were trying for when they built the ford center" You do realize if we had gotten an NHL team it would have most likely meant the end of the Blazers?

Stewart, Bethany wrote: "Bennett never said that all the positions would be filled with local residents." But that IS the intent of the Quality Jobs Act, that it would bring good paying (well above minimum wage + benefits) to OKLAHOMANS (the ones already here). NOT bringing people in from out of state.

Daniel, i think you and Bruce are the only ones who feel the blazers are a better game than the NBA.

I DO NOT WANT THE TEAM i dont care for basketball at all and i hope goes belly up in 3 years and clay benentt looses all of his money and has to live in a card board box under I 40 the ford center is fine the way it is and y should i have to pay for a crapy team to come here and now after promising us okc blazer fans that the new team will not have to change their schedule and now we lost a game night that we have had for 16 years is a bunch of crap how many people feel the same as i do i wouldnt mind a nhl team like they said they were trying for when they built the ford center

No wonder paul is so ashamed and embarrassed to admit where he's from.

paul said..."Clay said 170 new jobs would be created in order to qualify for the 60 million dollar rebate."...170 jobs may have been mentioned but that number was never needed to qualify for the Quality Jobs Act. Companys with payrolls as small as $2.5 million can qualify for those rebates. The tax breaks are refunded as a percentage of taxes paid, so the state only pays on jobs acually created, not some arbitrary number. There is no restriction on the positions being filled locally or from within the state. There may or may not eventually be 170 people employed by the team but everything else you have said about the Quality Jobs Act rebate is wrong. Not only are you a liar... you're a malicious idiot.

paul just go back and drink your coffee, do your heroin, put on your flannel and eat a piece of shut the duck up.

technically paul, you have no proof other than a conspiracy theorists, bigfoot believing, ufo chasers, paranoia. so everything you say is a lie.