Correction...do not encourage children to sneak...I misspoke. It would be interesting to see what your children think about summer days.

Back to my first comment....when this question was posted. See way below......Oh boy!!!!!! Let' hurry them up and make them just like us.....before responding, please read all comments posted by others......all listed below have points from a grown-ups view point (how dull). hello....calling all children! Stay a kid awhile. Let us oldies see a smiling innocent face and fun in the sun through your bright eyes. What a joy to see you kids do what I did, but did not realize how fleeting that special times was. I realize all of you love your kids and are proud of their youth and knowledge. Proposal: to the youth who read and write, sneak onto this site without your old crumbly parents looking over your shoulder and give your opinion. Happy Summer.

Lord knows I have screwed up some stuff.

Raven, marriage is great if you work at it, but I don't think it's a requirement to be married to raise your child right. If there is anyone out there that hasn't screwed something up in your life I would love to meet you because I have never met a perfect person before.

I agree Jimmy. And the way my child turns out will be from what his Daddy, my bf, teaches him. Yes, my bf, not husband, attack that too, don't forget. But also, a lot of credit goes to my parents, who raised me well, and helped me fix my giant screw ups when I did stray.

P.S. to be honest a huge portion of the credit for my own children goes to my wife as well.

My kids are grown and have graduated from college. I taught them what they needed to know at home and enforced what the school was teaching. As for sending your child to school 8 to 5 I find that a cheap way to get a free babysitting service these teachers have enough to do without the free services as well. Everyone raises there kids differently and if you stay involved in their life and do your part as a parent they will usually turn out fine. It's the parents that refuse to believe little Johnny does anything wrong that have a problem. There is such a thing as burnout it does exist. I don't believe letting a five year old be a child will hamper him or her in any way when they are older as long as you teach them responsibility according to their ages. I f you want to push your child harder that's your business, but it shouldn't be expected that every parent would do it the same way because others feel it to be the proper way to raise a child. Someone once said they don't come with instructions and that's very true as a parent you have to do what you feel is right. Also because you let your child be a child I don't feel like that child is any more subject to turning out dependent than independent.

Don't respond Jamie, I know you don't want to. The kids I grew up with whose parents tried to force them to perfection, grew up and went crazy, starring in pornos and snorting coke in the Quik E Mart bathroom. Good luck with your kids walking the line. Don't whine to others when it doesn't work out. Ever see Intervention? More than half of those addicts had parents like you.

LMAO You obviously didn't read anything I wrote, so you have a great day as well.

Hes your kid ... do with him as you will. Just dont whine to others when he calls you from jail late one night 15 years from now, becuase he still thinks hes a kid with no real responsibilites. We obviously dont agree on how to raise kids.. SO Im moving on..no reason in bickering it out with you. Have a good day Raven.

He learns the same thing in school, real life skills. He's 5 for crying out loud. You said your kids knew all this stuff about real life, (President, finances) like other kids didn't know it. If you let them be kids while at home, this wouldn't be the case.

It saddens me to think that people like Raven and S of OKC will continue this lack of teaching your kids correctly and how to be independent. ---What do you call that? That is pretty crappy if you ask me. I'm teaching my kid incorrectly? Who are you to say so????
See my point ? If not, keep tooting your own horn ---That is a little crappy too. Kind of like a wannabe upper class hoity toity crappy. I'm not going to turn my kid into some uber nerd because of parenting advice I get from strangers on an internet forum. Thanks though.

Raven, There is nothing wrong with letting your kids be kids when at home... but when they are in school they need to be taught what will get them through life (real life ) not this make believe stuff that they are being taught. I have plenty of friends, but I wont go there as it has nothing to do with this forum. I am not downing you in any manner Raven, Im glad that your kid is doing well, Im simply just stating a fact that the country at a large is well advanced past our children and its time we set it straight. If I have offended you then please forgive me as that was not my intentions. I am simply just giving my two cents, which I am certainly entitled to do, just as you are as well. I could have easily thrown some crappy remarks in there .. but if you will note I didnt. I am an adult and can hold myself accordingly.

My son is 5, Jamie. He is already very independent. I'm 25 years old and have a great job, own my own home, don't rely on my parents for money, and haven't since I was 16. I see them all the time and spend time with them when I can. They must have been horrible to me, otherwise I wouldn't have turned out to be such an unproductive member of society. My 5 year old knows who the President is as well. He also knows how to save and spend money and he just finished preschool. So...Jamie, I will 'toot my own horn' and tell you that President is capitalized and I sure hope your very mature, intellectually advanced children at least know that much. Lord, this country is in the crapper if everyone treats their kids like I do mine, and lets them watch cartoons and eat pancakes for dinner. They're still children. You may not remember this, but the children I went to school with who were educated by their mother on balancing checkbooks and the Presidental election by age 7, had no friends. Social skills are important too, but I'm sure you already knew that.

A million years ago, when I was in school, there were always extra-curricular activities after school, i.e., band practice, sports, club meetings, school newspaper, and just plain helping the teachers. I went to Cleveland Elem. and my mother was librarian at Taft, Jr. Hi., so I would stall around helping wherever I could so I wouldn't have to just sit and wait for her. It seems so strange now to think that she let me walk by myself those two blocks from the time I was 6. I wouldn't dream of that now.

I guess some people want to baby their kids til the age of 30. Thats what happens when you dont teach them early on how to take care of things in their own lives. Thats why some people are still borrowing and relying on their parents well into the 40 nowadays. It saddens me to think that people like Raven and S of OKC will continue this lack of teaching your kids correctly and how to be independent.

Winona, I second that. They need to learn early what life will be like for them later. And I agree, keeping them someplace where they will not vandalize, steal, or murder. Keep them in a place where they have an obligation to learn. They could also use that extra time to advance in a certain subject, a career choice later in the school years. Get a head start on college. This would be a great way to implement college into high school and ease that transition. Children should be treated like adults, and held accountable for their actions.

Yuck....treating kids like grownups. 8 year olds in school from 8 to 5?

I think they should make school 8 to 5, like work. So what if they're kids. Don't you know that the time kids spend after school and before parents get off work is when they get in the most trouble? In our school system, we have people who make sure these kids attend school or their parents are held accountable. I have 3 children in school who are good students. We have daycare for them after school. But I know a lot of students who are older than my children by a year or two, who are in the same grade and who still can't read or write. They have the same teachers my kids do. They are afforded the same opportunities, but don't know how. What would be a negative effect of having year round school with two longer hours a day? They might actually learn something? What's the worst? Burnout? Give me a break...I'd rather my kids spend that extra hours or days in school that at home watching directv or playing their video games or like some kids, running the streets. They could at least learn a foreign language or sports activities or music. More extra-curricular activities to keep them interested in school. I'm for longer days with hour lunch and 2 15 min breaks, just like work...

personally i think that school ought to be 4 days on and three days off. if they start after labor day and school should continue into last of june. they could have a week off for thanksgiving, and during xmas week of and start after jan 2. yes one week for fall and spring break. i think the kids would not get as tired and possibly the expenses would decrease

personally i think that school ought to be 4 days on and three days off. if they start after labor day and school should continue into last of june. they could have a week off for thanksgiving, and during xmas week of and start after jan 2. yes one week for fall and spring break. i think the kids would not get as tired and possibly the expenses would decrease

Stephen .. thats kinda what I was thinking. If they arent using their time appropriately, then the school boards need to re-think their jobs and what these teachers are doing during school hous. I would think that would come first then to the issue of are our kids spending enough time in school ? Should we add more hours or an extra day? _________ I think its sad that they would even ask this question.

DUH! isn't that what school is for?

Happy Birthday Floyd I hope you have a barrel of fun.

Hi, Deann! I want to thank you! Of course! Why didn't I take time to read the article just as you did? My mistake! Thanks for the heads up. It was great to read about the way this Vinita school is maximizing the time "as is." (I know better than to comment without reading the pertinent data, but obviously, sometimes I fail to do that. Thanks again, Deann. It made a world of difference in to know what we were really talking about on this one! I will try to do "MY homework" next time!)

Raven your child, is just that yor child. You choose to do with him or her however. But I strongly feel that education has taken a back seat in this state. It's time that we step up to the plate, so to speak, and hit a homerun. These children need to be taught about everything, not just what you ( I highly emphasize YOU ) think will get them by. Educating them in ALL areas is why other countries are ahead of us. S of OKC, and Marc of Moore are correct in their postings about us being behind and why other countries are exceling years beyond our children. Raven, I dont know how old your children are, but you can bet that you want the best for them .. true ? The way to a bigger , better life is teaching them things as a whole not as parts. My 7 year old daughter knows who the president is and has formed her own opinion of him. She also knows how to balance a check book... and can easliy hold a highly informative conversation with adults. She also has learned about our presidentail candidates and knows who she would vote for, and why she likes them. Do you think I push her to hard? One day she may be our president or better yet ... she has decided that running for the senate is better... thats where all the decisions are made. Dont you think you would like a well educated person up there rather then what we have now??? Thats whats wrong with our country today... Mediocrity is accepted widely here in the US.. but not in my house.. nor should it be in anyone elses house.. nor should it be for our government. See my point ? If not, keep tooting your own horn and best of luck to ya ~

It may not be the kids, it might be the teachers. Way back when I went to school(when Jesus was a baby), teachers wanted to teach, not they just open a book and tell everyone they don't make enough money. Back then, if a student was struggling the teacher would find a way to help. Now the teacher just moves on to the student that doesn't struggle. My English teacher in 10th grade cried because one of her students was failing her class. She felt that she was the failure for not being able to teach him. Now the teacher just moves on to the student that can do it easily. They feel they are very successful teachers. Teachers shouldn't blame the students nor the citizens for their low wages. The tax payers have voted for everything they have been asked to vote for.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, FLOYD!

I read what they were doing in Vinita before reading the comments here. I think the things they are doing there merit a huge round of applause. They haven't lengthend the school day or year, they've just used some creative thinking to capture some of their "down time" for educational purposes. I think its great! Singing the ABCs while standing in line!! Wow, you get music AND language arts at the same time. I'm all in favor of that, AND moving recess before instead of after lunch. Sounds like the teachers (who came up with the ideas) at Vinita have been encouraged to look outside the box and come up with some superb ideas.

Happy Birthday Floyd!

Oxycontin is like morphine. Happy Birthday to you!

Happy Birthday, Floyd! Celebrate! Enjoy! May God Bless You with many more!

I agree with judie on this...keep it the way it is. _____Learning should not be limited to the classroom experience. Children have different levels of maturity. They need nurture. They need diversion. They need adequate rest. They need a variety of nourishment and enrichment. Children can and sometimes do suffer burnout from overwork. Appropriate and time tested educational building blocks should enable each to find his/her own timing as he/she encounters the challenges of the knowledge explosion. From a basic and enduring foundation, exploration and mastery can evolve.

S, my point is that according to American standards the people I mentioned did "make it" with summer vacations. As to how they did it is a complete mystery to me. Strange things happen.

I agree with JH, deep red creek. Quality does trump quantity!

Hi Judie, I'm glad you are back. I agree with you but never raised children. I just realized something; Tomorrow, July 22, I WILL be 67. For the past year I have been, without calculating, thinking I was already 67 so I have to live that year over. I was at my nephew's 12th birthday party Saturday and was talking to a boy instead of watching where I was going, tripped and sprained my right shoulder which was just about healed from the last fall. I'm already on oxycontin, or something like that. You haven't mentioned aches and pains. Do you have them or did you just learn to live with them? When is your birthday?

I was emotionally estranged from my parents, but materially indulged to excess. When I married at 17, I was totally unprepared and uneducated about the real world. I raised my two daughters to learn gradually, not have it sprung on them all at once. We did a lot of talking, pros and cons, and I did a lot of listening. In my opinion, education only begins in the school. It should be concluded at home, in family gatherings, church, and peer relationships. Learning is a lifelong process. I don't think they need to go to school year round. When would they have a family vacation? If they had a couple of weeks off, everybody would be on vacation at the same time. That would mean that most businesses would have to shut down so all their employees could go on vacation at the same time. Let's just keep it the way it is.

This is somewhat like comparing apples and oranges, but in my books quality will trump quanity anytime.

Marc..very well said. I tried to write the same thoughts, but couldn't come up with right phrasing. Excellent comments.

The pendulum has swung too far in the 'let kids be kids' direction when it comes to education. Why do we import so many medical and engineering professionals? Why do some cultures (in the U.S.)produce academic achievers in such great numbers? (and others don't?) We push them to be stars in youth sports, dance, etc.. but not nearly as hard in academia where it counts. School day lengths, seasons, and the amount of money spent all take a back seat to the attitude our culture has toward education.

If teachers are in it for the summer's off, then they choose the profession for the wrong reason and I wouldn't want a child of mine in their class.

I would like to know how a year around school would affect the teachers and would it create higher costs for utilities? My brother-in-law drives a bus for Putnam City and I know he likes having the summer off.

Sallie, your argument started off with good intention by listing "successful" people who "made it" in the world but it really fell short when you listed Bush (who barely made a C average in college), Gene Stipe (who, last time I checked is a crook) and Elvis (who can't be listed in the same category because at least he had talent that took him somewhere...who knows where'd he be if it weren't for that).

P.S. I am sorry for spelling your name wrong.

Sallie and Raven you have both made most excellent points. Stop rushing these children to grow-up. If we wanted our children raised like the Children in China or elsewhere we would raise them there. It's up to the individual as to how hard they push their children and if you want all year school find one and enroll your child. Jaime I raised my children just like you did nothing different and I taught them everything you spoke of without all year school. They turned out very well. They graduated college and all 3 are very well off more so than myself. You are teaching your children well and I am sure they will turn out wonderful even with summers off.

Your 7 year old is involved in your finances and world politics? My son has money in his piggy bank and a savings account. He knows if he has enough money in his piggy bank, he can buy toy A but if he waits a little longer, he can buy toy B which is more fun but more expensive. He sure as hell doesn't know how much our utility bills and mortgage payments are, nor would I want him too. He worries when he sees the gas gauge on my car at less than a quarter of a tank. Why concern a child with worries like this? My parents didn't do it to me and I won't do it to him. Let kids be kids while they're kids. Attack away.

Sallie, why just make it. I want my chilren to have better, do better, and be better then anything I ever was or am. Thats why we prepare them for the real world. My kids ages 7 & 11 know everything right now about our finances , and are very keen on saving money, spending money and such. They know what a budget is and can keep to it, which is difficult for even most adults let alone teenagers entering this world. My kids learn about world politics from myself, work ethics and the necessary skiils required to do more then just MAKE IT. They also know that they are going to college and it has to be on their own. So grades are held high just as our expectations are, that is needed to do more then just succeed. To Rise above the standard expectations is what we need to teach our kids, and going to school and getting your education is number one in our house. Not to rain down on anyones parade.. we just have our priorities straight IMHO.

Jamie, Obama, Pelosi, Bush, Brad Pitt, Gene Stipe and Elvis (the list is endless) all "made it in life" and they went through schools that had summer breaks. I agree that summer is a pain for the parents (financially and timewise), but that just goes with parenting. I went through the same headaches when my kids went were in the OK school system but we all survived it. Prepared for life? Impossible. But that did not stop the boys from shooting out into the big old scary world at the age of eighteen. Now they are crusty old goobers in their 30's hoping for the end of summer breaks too. I tell them (laughing) that they are big weenies. Your two children are going to be fine, regardless of how we grownups try to make them just like us.

I think what Vinita is doing sounds like an efficient plan. I don't think we ought to add time to the school day nor do I think recess should be eliminated. This No Child Left Behind stuff has already cut out a lot of important classes like P.E. and music at many schools. We must keep recess for the love of God! Lol.

Well Raven as you said the attacks shall come. The kids that make it in this life are the ones who have been prepared. I personally think that other countries are leading us in these areas for hte reason that they attend school all year with more breaks in between. I , too, think that we should go to this. As it is now, after returning from the long summer break, they take up to three months to REVIEW what the kids learned last year. It would not require that review if they were to attend all year long. That of course means that they then get ahead by three full months each and every year. These teachers could focus on what truly needs to be learned instead of what did you learn last year, and it would be a great overall outcome for all these kids. I have two in school now.. and summers are spent doing nothing school related.. which means that they need that review when they start back. Now of course I make them do school related stuff each summer so that they can keep up with what they have already learned and stay in the "know". As foe the younger kids, they are more plaible when it comes to school , they actually want to go to school, where as the older kids are getting to the point of disliking school. Also year round school will help parents out by not having to arrange summer sitting ( both costly and time consuming ) that way both the parents and the kids can concentrate on whats most important.

LOL @ Sallie

I think the way things are going now is just fine. I see no need to change it. I agree about letting kids be kids, especially the little ones. My little guy is already 5!! I want him to stay young as long as possible. I hate thinking about him facing some of the terrible things in the world today. I want to put it off as long as possible. (OK Now attack me for not preparing my son for the real world, people!)

The only time kids have to be kids is when they are young. Looking forward to summer with no school or alarm clock, lazy summer days of just being young. We old folks (35 & up) have either forgotten what we felt like in those younger years or were jealous that we are older and want can't wait to turn the young into crusty old goobers just like us. Leave the young alone for now...Heaven knows they will get old soon enough.