Jay, Thanks for explaining. The internut article was more interested in running Obama and McCain down than explaining.

Floyd - thought I'd jump in. Obama does not want to change the Social Security tax rate (raise taxes), he wants to increase the threshold of who pays it. Right now, the tax is capped at $102,000 in earnings. Sen. Obama's plan would raise that threshold. As for inheritance taxes, as the law currently reads, the federal inheritance tax has an increasing threshold until 2010 (last year it was $1 million, this year $1.5, etc). In 2011, it goes away for 1 year, then comes back at the $1 million threshold.

Judie, I'm not arguing that point. I just haven't heard or read what he plans to change except the 2 I mentioned; reinstating inheritance taxes and increasing Social Security taxes. I read today he is changing his mind about exploring for oil off the coast since it looked like he was going to lose votes to McCain if he didn't.

Any change is better than just stagnating. It might be for the better, it might be for the worse, but nothing was ever accomplished by not at least trying.

IF what The National Review says about Obama are true, it is people like him that means I will end this life broke with nothing to leave my wife. When Sen. Bellmon was in office I wrote a resolution for our Grange farm organization to do away with inheritance taxes. My dad and mom both had to pay on what was left them by their parents, then dad died and mom had to pay tax on what dad left her even though the tax was on some that my mom inherited. When she died my brother and I had to pay the tax even though my brother and I did the work and earned what we inherited since dad was semi-invalid. When my brother died I was really hit hard and was forced to quit farming because of having to sell my cattle, machinery, and some land to pay. I kept enough machinery to be able to try to do custom hay work and rented out the land I had left. The National Review makes comments like Obama is opposed to Paris Hilton types who are protected by corporations. I wonder how I'll make it if I get sent to a nursing home but more, how will my wife make it. Then the Review says Obama wants to raise Social Security taxes. I do not pay them anymore so to me that is sort of a moot issue, but to those paying it may be a cure or a curse. Ask the sheep what it thinks.

And still, It doesn't change the fact that Obama has said he wants change and that the U.S. is still the greatest nation in the history of the world. What changes does he want and why?

Well, The National Review sure doesn't help decide between Obama and McCain. It doesn't like either one and would rather have had Thompson or Romney. They make fun of Obama supposedly saying raising your tire pressure would have done as much for the energy situation as over a trillion barrels of oil that could be found if drilling would be allowed. It says, on McCain, that he wants to give terrorists protection and rights. I think that is so much B.S. But it is on the internut so it must be true. Maybe that sheep has more going for it as president than the candidates.

The quote about Obama wanting to change the "greatest nation in the world" was on a billboard. I wish I could find who it was that said Obama was a worldwide celebrity. Both sides take their turns at mud-slinging.I do not like our lack of choice for president. I don't know if I'll waste time voting. I was sent the picture of the billboard by a fellow that sends me Max Lucado's writings quite often and if you can tell me where I can find the truth, if different, I'll write back and correct him. Now I'm going to see what I can find by going to National Review. No matter who says what on the internut, it is called a lie by someone else, or so it seems.

Floyd, I think the comment you are looking for is "We understand it might be beneath a worldwide celebrity of Barack Obama's magnitude to appear at town hall meetings alongside John McCain and directly answer questions from the American people, but we hope he'll reconsider", from a McCAIN Staffer. Furthermore, Obama never made the statement you quote - it's a parody from The National Review.You are bordering on bearing false witness. Either that or I know sheep that could outsmart you.

I didn't take time to read all the posts here. As Dover, Crescent schools were integrated in the fall of 1955 by Gov. Raymond Gary. (All state schools were supposed to integrate at that time. The larger schools simply weren't integrated due to segretation in neighborhoods.) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I was surprised at the Katz Drug store sit-in; not because they did it, but because the Drug store was segregated. I didn't realize that our local cafes were segregated at that time. - - - - - - - Judie, I'm so sorry about your father. I was fortunate to have forward-looking, color blind parents. I know they are both in heaven rooting for Mr. Obama today.

Since this topic has gone off topic into politics, did any of you catch the comment yesterday (may still be on) by one of Obama's campaign people, talking about the coming Pres. debates. He said since Obama is an international celebrity, he will not field questions from common Americans,i.e. He is just too into himself. Then there is his quote, "America is the greatest nation in the history of the world. Join with me as we try to change that." I was e-mailed what Letterman wrote and Keith said it ought to be printed in the Oklahoman, I agree. It is quite long. I will just mention a few things. "As you know, I am no fan of Pres. Bush who has a 30% approval rating. Are you angry at him because on your daily visit to the grocery store you see more food that the people of other countries see in a year? Are you angry because you can drive from the Atlantic ocean to the Pacific and never once get stopped to check if you are legal? Are you upset because on the way there are many hotels and motels and gas stations and restaurants? Are you upset because if you are involved in an accident not only is there help close by but helicopters to take you to the hospital and hospitals to give you care? Are you upset because you have running water, electricity, and trash hauling which many other countries do not have? Or is it you are just an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats that have it too easy?" The list of good things is much longer. Remember at the start I said Obama says he wants to change this. I find I'm pretty satisfied with among other things I didn't mention, freedom of religion.

OFF TOPIC: If we are to be totally accurate, in our species, there is and always has been but one race: The Human Race. However, certain basic physical features vary by groups within our species . Certain basic differences are inaccurately and commonly defined as "race," even though we humans all belong to one race. Anthropologists have chosen to be more specific in regard to basic physical trait differences which appear within the human race. (These differences were specific to groups which tended to share (inhabit) certain, common geographical areas. These groups were designated by anthropologists as three major sub-divisions with the human race. These sub-divisions are Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid. (There was another sub-division labeld Australoid.) None was determined to be superior to another. As we all know, these terms are not commonly used today.

Oops, Larry. Sorry, I reread your post and think you were referring to Hillary rather than Bill. Sorry, you are right in their positions. I could have accepted either. But I still see McCain as only extending the Bush administration and I still don't want that. But if it happens, I'll live with it and still support our country and it's duly elected leader.

Like I said, Larry, that is just my personal opinion and I stand by it. It is also still my opinion that the differences in the two parties is greater than the similarities. You are probably right about people voting for personalities and other things than the issues. And, yes, Obama may be a clone of Clinton, but as far as leadership was concerned (leaving out personal involments), I considered him a much better leader than either Bush. Again, just my opinion, which I'm sure you will find fault with.

Both of my parents worked at Katz at about that time, though not downtown, they worked at the one that was located in Mayfair shopping center that was at nw 50th and May. Was a grocery store for years and years, just recently torn down and a CVC built in its place.

Hi Judie, you wrote: "Personally, I think our country needs a big change." But what kind of change? and "But I guess that's why we have two distinct parties..." Have you noticed that except for a few issues, the two parties are remarkably the same? Take the two remaining candidates as an example and their position on Illegal Immigration. Both are for the "path to citizenship" (amnesty) of the 12 to 20 million who are already here. Also found it interesting when watching the Democratic debates that Clinton and Obama's position on nearly every issue were nearly identical. Yet many supporters for either candidate said they would vote for McCain if their candidate lost. Obviously for those people, the race wasn't about the issues (since their position was nearly identical) but the personalities of the candidates themselves or perhaps the role of race and gender played a part too.

You didn't disillusion me, judie. I just used a very poor, invalid analogy. I was too frivolous, I fear. I know that what you say is true in regard to species and hybridization and I knew prior to your post and prior to my own. But it is good that you offered that truth...to keep the conversation valid. I didn't intend and really don't want to misinform or mislead anyone. Please know that I do have some fairly good background in science...plus some practical knowledge in that area, as well. ____ I believe that you have quick intelligence and the capability of understanding. Hence, perhaps I simply lack the capability to explain and express what I mean. Once and for all, I am not seeking a purebred human being nor am I advocating that. Not at all! Never! Just the thought of an Aryan race appalls me and goes against the very grain of what I actually believe. That is simply not the essence of what I have tried to say. How anyone who knows of the horror and inhumanity of the Holocaust could ever embrace such a thing is beyond me!____Actually, I am trying to say something which I feel is just the opposite of such a notion! I happen to value each race which presently exists in our own species ( i.e., homo sapiens). It seems to me to advocate doing away with any one of them and thereby eliminating the existence of one or more or all is a form of racism. I am not elevating one above the other, but honestly do believe that God created all and equally. While it may be good that there has been some degree of blending over time and while it is important that there should never be a movement (or anything else) prohibiting that blending, there is also nothing wrong with having respect for that diversity as it still exists either. (My post just prior to the flower comment, hopefully, will offer some enlightenment into my thinking on this issue.) _________As far as experience as a requirement for attaining a job is concerned, I agree with you that there are also other factors one can bring to a job which can be important and of value and beneficial to the workplace. Your example of your daughter's bringing new ideas to her new job is one of them. She is to be congratulated. I have a hunch that she is endowed with good capability and talent like her mother. (I tend to believe that old saying that many times "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree." It's not just about the color of our eyes,etc. Genetics plays a role when it comes to brain power, too!) I do agree with you that the things your daughter brought to her new job were worthwhile contributions. Even so, I would like to ask if your daughter was hired to perform the duties and assume the responsibilities of the CEO? I feel that the particular job Senator Obama is seeking is of the utmost importance and bears a huge burden requiring far more than the freshness of new ideas. It's true that can and often should be incorporated into that position, but the weight of that particular job would seem to demand that and something much, much more....and a wealth of experience. Experience can actually be an important contributor in assessing a need for change and a resource for knowing what those needs and changes might be...Experience can provide the knowledge of what is working and what is not...and what needs to be done and how and what can't and why. It can give one the heads up to know what resources are available and what outcomes are reasonable. Experience can be the basis for forming new ideas and for making corresponding changes which will be beneficial. Change for the sake of change is not necessarily desirable and can even bring waste and mistakes and be counterproductive. Experience can cut those negative consequences to a minimum. Experience can help one discern the right course to take and help the bearer to have a handle..i.e., an understanding of what is required and what is needed and why and how it needs to be achieved. Authentic experience is an invaluable resource. We learn from our experience...what works, what was a mistake, etc. When comes to the presidency of this great nation it seems that experience is really very important and is definitely needed and is something we voters should demand.

I hate to disillusion you, C., but most flowers and foods and animals are all the product of hybridization. As a former dog handler, I have seen new "pure breeds" come forth that are the product of the blending of one or more breeds. Once that hybrid is intact for at least five generations, it can be considered a new breed. I do not want to see any species disappear, but homo sapiens are one species, just as dogs are a species, cats are a species and cows are a species regardless of color or markings. I believe the concept of pure race will die, unless, of course, someone comes up with the idea of a purebred human show that can trace the pure bloodline back five generations. Nothing's impossible I guess. Maybe that's what the Aryan nation would like to do. I have never thought that you would not be for Obama because of race, C. I know you're better than that. However, I do not believe experience is as important as bringing new ideas into a situation. My daughter just started a new job 9 months ago and already two of her ideas have been put into the works. She has been acknowledged by the president of a nationally renowned advertising agency for her inovative thinking and tomorrow will leave for Alabama to accept an award. I was in the business world and the military for many years and it always seemed that those who were the newest had the most to prove and were the hardest workers and the ones to most likely take advice from others. That is what I want, someone who will convene the most talent in all areas that America has to offer.

OFF TOPIC: For the record, just because a person does not support Senator Barack Obama for the presidency does not mean that person is a racist. I perceive some red flags in regard to the senator which are not related to race. To name only one: The senator has an obvious and real lack of experience. Experience is an important...a must have... attribute for someone who is to serve as President of the U.S. of America. Again...Senator Obama lacks adequate experience for that position and that is a huge red flag and should serve as a valid deterrent to his election.

For example, when it comes to flowers, I love flowers, but I prefer more than just one variety...I really like daisies, but I also like lilies, roses, cannas, tulips, iris, daffodils, and so on and so forth. I hope no one ever hybridizes them into one.

For example, when it comes to flowers, I love flowers, but I prefer more than just one variety...I really like daisies, but I also like lilies, roses, cannas, tulips, iris, daffodils, and so on and so forth. I hope no one ever hybridizes them into one.

Actually, I, too, believe a marker of the vigor and vitality of a strong America is the concept of the "melting pot." _______I offered a few thoughts...some that I would like to ponder more and more in-depth, but it is not really possible to do that here. Who can say what my conclusion at the end of my own debate, even if limited just to me, would actually be. For I, myself, don't know for certain exactly what conclusions would come from such an analysis and examination. _____ However, the point I was seeking to make is there within my text below: ______________Please note: It is not that one needs to change the color of his/her skin to have a sense of oneness/unity with mankind, it is that people need to change their hearts to become more kindred in spirit. And...yes, Floyd, God created all of us and each person, irregardless of race, is a part of his Creation...and He definitely loves each one. God's love is not contingent upon color or race or anything else. Nor should ours be! His commandment to "love thy neighbor as thyself" states clearly the pattern we are to live by. Jesus did not come to change governments...but to change hearts...and in doing so, the world can experience transformation. Fortunately, that transformation has been in progress for centuries and has brought great and positive changes to the world we live in....Unfortunately, there have been the times such transformation has waned and ..the result has been..WOE! Woe unto the world when it rejects the saving Grace of Christ and abandons the transforming power of God's love! ____________I may not have expressed what I actually meant when I offered keeping the characteristics of one's race intact. I am not sure I really know how to convey what I think or if I really even know just what I do think ...but I know the direction in which I lean. I believed I was saying I want to explore this avenue of thought further. ______ In 100 years, I won't be here so my thoughts are a moot point. I just know that I do not want to see the eradication of race....though, of course, I do want to see the eradication of a concept and attitude and behavior which weakens man's brotherhood one to the other...that concept is racism. Please do understand: I was not...I am not... denouncing intermarriage or insulting the offspring of such unions. I was simply saying that I believe God's Creation is lovely...Black, Yellow, Red or White...all are precious in His sight. If I am obedient unto his Word and His will....I feel that I will value each and, truly, I have no wish to see any race become extinct. Again...my thoughts may not be expressed adequately enough to convey my intent. I am not really talking about heritage, per se, here. I am talking about people...groups of people created as such...i.e., as members of different groups with distinctive physical differences. But I do believe that each race should be valued equally and I believe all people were created equally. Though there will be intermarriage and offspring will result...I prefer that while racism should be eliminated, race itself should not. I urge the brotherhood of mankind. As a part of God's Creation, each has its rightful place within it....I believe men need not seek to eliminate race, but to change hearts and fill them with the love of Christ....thereby eliminating racism and transforming the world. We can do that through Jesus Christ.

I don't remember the "sit in" but I do remember Katz Drug. As a young child, in the days before malls, my mother would take me downtown to shop on Saturdays. We would always stop at Katz for lunch or a snack. I clearly remember seeing the counter being divided and would ask my mother "why". She always explained that it was someone's way of being unkind to others. I was taught that "color" didn't make a difference. We all are equal in God's eyes.

I agree that experience is very important and as Harry Truman said, "The buck stops here." If it were someone other than McCain, I might be more enthusiastic, but from everything I've heard, read, and seen (including his negative campaigning) seems to just be a clone of Bush. It is my own personal vision that four years of McCain will not change anything. For those who don't want change, he would be great. Personally, I think our country needs a big change. But I guess that's why we have two distinct parties and why so frequently we have a Republican era followed by a Democratic era. Americans are just never satisfied with the way things are. As to the races, I think what you refer to as obliteration of races, I see the term as cultures. Race to me is biology, where culture is anthropology. The biological essence of any distinct human race is fading, but I hope the cultures that they produced will live on and that we take the best from all of them.

Judie, There is an enjoyable movie that was being shown on COX 200-208 called Carbon Copy which was Denzil Washington's first movie. His white father is played by the boss on"Just Shoot Me"(I'm terrible with names). It's about bigotry and really gets me that there are the actually people that are so closed minded for no reason. I mentioned falling at my nephew's birthday party a couple of weeks ago which ultimately led to my stay in the hospital for 4 nights with pneumonia. The reason I fell was I was talking to one of my Indian in-laws. Inside the house were my Negro, Mexican, Indian, and Caucasian relatives. Some of my relatives have been working on genealogy for years and there is evidence Pocahontas is in the list. I dated a Korean lady a few times and once asked her if she could understand Vietnamese. She surprised me with her comeback. "I hate them." I thought the Asian people were all one race even though I can see some difference in their looks. I know our Creator hates racism. We are all His children. Tom Poston plays the preacher in the movie and wants the father to repent for suggesting that God may be black

C, I can understand your viewpoint in wanting to preserve ones individuality, but I don't think that can be done by ascribing a race to one. My great grandchildren are technically half European-American and half African-American (I like the term Afropean) but they also have in their background American Indian, Japanese, and Caribbean, and that's just what we can document. No telling what else there is. There is no way they should be individualized by race because we wouldn't know where to start. However, they are so unique and special to me (I admit bias). I believe everyone should want to preserve the culture of their ancestors, but more and more that involves so many cultures that I think it might be better to have not only black history month, but Italian history month, Irish history month, etc., etc. Then each month could be devoted to learning everyones culture. I'm kind of doing that now with my grandchildren by cooking special foods for whatever country we are currently studying. Just an idea.

C, As you know, the U.S. is know as the melting pot. My ancestors came from Israel by way of Germany, then the British Isles. We do not call ourselves Germen-Americans, or Israelite-Americans, but just Americans. "All Israel will be saved." Is not about race but religion. You can be an Israelite no matter what your race (Isaiah 56:6). There is no such thing as a Jewish race. My only interest in this whole Universe is for what is listed in Hebrews 4. The reason for the Messiah was to allow everyone to join Him and His Father in the final Sabbath. Many people wonder what life is about. I just told you. Verse 11.

p.s. To me, it would be sad to have "bred" away the wonderful characteristics of individuality that define one people from another. I prefer variety more than sameness. I would find the model of mankind that Jess projects to be lacking and bland in comparison to the rich variety of physical characteristics that demarcates the differences in mankind of today.

Hmmm...could be!?____ I am trying to imagine what Floyd will say about that.____Personally, I find it somewhat ironic that someone concerned about the blight of "racism" would suggest that such a "blending" would be a desired remedy to banish racism from the world. That almost seems "racist" to me...for that suggestion seems to be the "wiping out the markers of individuality" which define one race from the other. If one is truly not racist, wouldn't if make more sense to seek to preserve the individuality and characteristics of race rather than merge them into oneness? This lends itself to some deep and lengthy analysis, comparisons, etc...it would take a lot of time to properly consider and ponder....taking time that kind of time is something I don't have at the moment ..I can't properly or adequately grapple with this thesis or delve into it just now, but I think it would be very interesting to more fully consider. It is an interesting topic. _____If we truly believe that one race is not superior to another, then why would we not want to preserve them all? We seek to preserve wildlife as it appears in nature...why not mankind? ___When the color of man's skin becomes the problem..it seems to me that it is not actually his race..his outward appearance that need changing, but his heart. ___(BTW/Jess, there are the times people use race as a crutch to enable themselves to assume the posture of victimization.)

I agree with you, Jess. In fact, most anthropologists now claim that the only pure races now are some indigenous tribes in remote areas of South America, New Guinea, Africa, etc. If everyone had their DNA analyzed, they might be very surprised at what they would find.

I think within the next 100 years we won't have race any more. We will all be integrated into each other to create a mass race that nobody can distinguish you falling into a certain category. I know racism won't go away overnight and it's bred into some people. However, I'm tired of the media and government always trying to throw up that wall and force us to be identified by our race and categorized. If a man breaks into a store and robs it, it's always a "black" male... yet if a white person does it.. it's then an "unidentified" male. When you fill out job applications the gov wants to know what race you are. Who cares! Stop using race in everything and maybe it won't be a big a deal as it has been.

Yes Judie, I'm quite proud of our little Dover school for never having a racial incident to my knowledge. We wondered why they had their Booker T. Washington school out east of town. My neighbors were black and my best friends. The teachers and staff, being older, were worried we kids might have ill feelings about integrating but we were far more ready and willing to accept our neighbors. We would hear about the crap going on other places and wonder why they couldn't get along or wouldn't try. The forced busing was a big mistake because it, in itself, was racial. It could have been settled by lottery to see which school the children should go to. That was one thing good about our small towns, the ONLY school was the one from each town to go to.

Floyd, you must have gone to school with some unique and wonderful kids. I went to NW Classen and I can't remember one student, other than my best friend and myself, that supported the sit-in. However, NW was brand new back then and very snobbish.

I just looked at the date of the sit-in and I do recall it. The kids from our school walked out of restaurants that wouldn't serve blacks. The children had to lead.

This topic has been on for a few days but with being in the hospital for 4 days and not recalling anything about this incident, avoided even reading it. I copied what Deu. had to say about juvenile delinquents and did not express my opinion. I get a LOT of religious literature plus others, such as David,Altus, direct me to others. I was amused that the early Christians were called idiots by the Romans for not going along with the Romans and Greeks hedonistic life-styles. The Christians were tortured, imprisoned, and murdered, and their rights taken away. I wish I had the fortitude to be considered an idiot. That, from them, is the highest compliment. If I am enough of an idiot, I may hear my Creator say,"Well done my good and faithful servant."

Rufus, as a caucasion, I'm only familiar with white racism as I was growing up. However, now that I have a black grandson-in-law, I have seen it on his side of the family regarding my granddaughter. It seems there are many blacks now (and I don't intend to imply that this means most or even a majority), who feel that their time has come and that they are entitled to look down on whites the same way they were looked down on. My grandson thinks this is hogwash and that he will not ever lower himself to be linked to any kind of racism. He is a wonderful young man and a great father.

only white people are racists, right cherrie??

I was the one who was burning the cross...I remember it well.

Julie, those sentiments are still prevelant. Not much in regards to emotions has changed, place N-word with Hispanic or Muslim and you'll find the same sentiment as in the 50s

My dad's cousin wrote a letter to the editor over the situation (he was always complaining about something) and in essence it said that the only way to control this "nigger" (and yes, they printed that word) was to either send them all back to Africa or section them off in another part of town and fence them in. As I recollect, his sentiments were very popular at that time.

It would be interesting to see any editorials written by this nrewspaper during the time of this protest.

Nada. I was only ? years old.

Thanks for putting your comments in the proper context, Montgomery. _____judie, I don't know. There are the times... when it's possible that we may agree more than it seems. It would be neat and interesting to have the opportunity to have real one on one, heart to heart talks with you. ________Like judie, most of you have my respect and I believe most of you seek to be fair, honest and sincere...and to be respectful. Interpreting statements in the proper context is important to me. I want to be fair.

Floyd and I seldom agree and even C and I disagree more than we agree, but I respect all of you and trust whole-heartedly in your sincerity. I call my daughter an idiot all the time, but she knows I love her. Gotta go! I have a cockatiel on my keyboard.

Oh, and for anyone who feels sorry for Floyd, may I post a quote from him: "You didn't go far enough explaining the Jesuits quest for word conquest with their "One World Order" under their high leader Satan and the help of the Federal Reserve. Most people are completely ignorant on the Illuminati. "

C, perhaps my comment needs some context. Floyd has previously thanked me for calling him an idiot; he considers it a compliment in the style of "the wisdom of men is foolishness in the eyes of God". As for my guesses as to Floyd's take on the issue, I am merely extrapolating from his previous posts, condoning the stoning of disobedient children. The man worships the Levitical law, and I am merely assuming he is consistent in his beliefs. Hope that cleared things up; ban the nickel!

One really shouldn't assume he/she knows just what another is thinking. The post of today at 12:35 PM seems outrageous. It's surprising that Montgomery would resort to statements so presumptious. It really doesn't seem characteristic that Montgomery would stoop to insults and name calling. I thought Montgomery was a class act. Of course, I could have been wrong to have made that assumption! But...then...perhaps this is not the "ban the nickle" Montgomery. ____ In any case, I don't know what Floyd recalls about this historical event. I can't offer information in that regard. However, when it comes to making judgment calls regarding this event and Floyd and his nature, I have an opinion and it is one that does not match the comments posted by "Montgomery." I feel sure that making condemnation of this historical event is something that Floyd would not do. I strongly disagree with "Montgomery's" conclusion. BTW, Floyd's no idiot.

No doubt Floyd would condemn this action, since 2 of the 10 commandments mention (and therefore condone) slavery, and the last chapter of Ezra concerns the expulsion of all who have married those of another race. Of course, Floyd is an idiot.

I remember it well. I was 17, at the height of my rebellious stage. My father was an avowed racist and ranted and raved about this for days. I ranted and raved right back and as a result our tenuous relationship became even more so. I was inspired from that day forward to work for equal recognition. It is amazing now to think that it is "politically incorrect" to be biased now, but in 1958 it was PC not to be biased.