Grown males, (over 18) who refer to other males as pledges and call their group a brotherhood (unless your a cop, fireman, or in the military) have serious emotional/mental problems. As an OU Student and life-long football fan, I do not particularly care for the Ruf-Neks. I like the Sooner Schooner, but we can find responsible students to drive it. The cheerleaders mean much more to OU Football games than the Ruf-Neks.

In regards to Shelly: You have taken the article out of context. It reads "Investigators found evidence of RUF/NEKS abusing alcohol and hazing pledges in various ways." I would like you to notice that it does not read "alcohol was used to haze." I am a RUF/NEK from pledge class 04. I would just like to make you aware that alcohol was never forced upon me by any of the memebers during my pledgeship. Nor did I ever force it on pledges, infactI probably did more to help my pledges because when they would get drunk at a frat house at a party they went with their room mates I would do my best to make sure they didn't drive, possible saving a few lives. Also a noteworth fact, is that during my pledgeship, is when Blake Hammontree died from alcohol poisoning, from a fraternity hazing him. Not the RUF/NEKS. The only other thing I would like to mention is that I am glad your son found out about his allergy before he became of age as I can tell by your tone that you are a caring mother. But if you are so caring and watchful of your children, how did your thirteen year old son get his hands on alcohol in the first place?

As a mother of a 21 year old male, who overdosed on alcohol at the age of 13, thank God we found him in time, and thank God we found out that he was allergic to alcohol before he actually started hanging out with kids who thought it was 'cool' to drink, I still have my son, and he knows he can not drink, and he is not ashamed to tell ANYONE, under any circumstances, no matter what they call him, or how much he is belittled, that he CAN NOT DRINK, HE WILL DIE!!. Until you have this happen, you do not know you are allergic to alcohol and I just wonder how many kids are killled by 'hazing' and forced to drink to 'fit in'. It is so STUPID!! It is not worth taking a life to find out that someone is allergic to alcohol. Hazing is a CRIME!! If more people were held accountable for it, maybe it stop. Instead those responsible, run, and hide behind mommy and daddy's skirt tails. This has got to stop!!

Tammy - WHATEVER!! By the way my 3 year old said OU WAS YUCKY not the person. I thought she was entitld to her opinions. She did not like OU at that time, fact still remains she was 3!!! The other child was in his late teens or early 20's. Who was the more mature. Sorry your son is affiliated with them and by the way the term houligans came fom a previous poster not me, I just used it. I don't know your son you are right but you don't know me or my daughter either, by the way she is 15 now care to ask her about it??? Dylans comment about he could no longer cheer his team on spoke volumes, (to me), he was just there for the tomfoolery and you may hav apologized but he called me a liar so again, whatever. Enjoy your life as well. I pray your kids don't share your BAD HABITS!!!!!

To Bob in Bedford, Lee was referring to a classic line from a movie... Hazing was something I went through when I was in a fraternity at OU years ago and it brought my pledge class closer together. But the things they call hazing today wouldnt be called hazing back then. These forms of hazing wouldnt even make the hazing radar when I was in school. It seems to me today that there is always something that happens that then changes a traditonal culture within an organization and then the organization is never quite the same. Its to bad

I have one word...... Toga Toga Toga Toga!!!!!!!!

RUF/NEK Pres. '99 here. Has anyone taken the time to read the student code on hazing? If not, look here: http://www.ou.edu/studentcode/OUStudentCode.pdf Just to help you out, the actions and activities explicitly prohibited start on page 26 and continue to page 27. I would like to draw attention to action j and x as these two actions would affect almost any organization. Action j refers to "line-ups" of any nature. One could make the case that the Baptist Student Union may form a line during a reception for punch and ice cream. Does the football team also not line up? What about action x which refers to "carrying of items?" This is absurd. If pledges can not carry a pencil to a meeting for note taking purposes or carry a flag on gameday, why would it be okay for new members or guests of the BSU to carry a Bible? I think that if all organizations across campus were actually investigated and scrutinized using this code, all would find themselves in violation. Are the current as well as past members guilty of violations? Without a doubt. But is any organization guiltless or violation free? Probably not. The RUF/NEKS have had a sponsor for years. During my tenure, Danny Davis was in charge of overseeing the organization's activities as well as the cheerleading squad. Does the university need to assign a person to each organization? I would suggest it to be fair to all. The lessons learned through pledging not only taught myself and others what it means to be a 'NEK or an avid fan of OU sports, but they actually help later in life. I thought it was such a benefit that I even supported my brother who pledged 5 years after I did. Should my son express an interest in the organization, I would support him as well. I would never dream of subjecting my family to something that I knew would cause them harm or mental anguish. No, RUF/NEKS aren't for everyone. As I can see, our fan base is rather small. But, for an organization that was fostered from a single event where a woman disliked the behavior of a group of rowdy individuals, I have to give the RUF/NEKS credit for staying true to their origins over the past 92 years. For those of you that wish the organization gone, be careful what you wish for. The Sooner Schooner, while it is the official mascot, does not belong to the university. It is owned by the Bartlett Foundation and maintained by the RUF/NEKS. Sure you can do away with the guns or find someone else to shoot them. But, no RUF/NEKS = no Schooner. What a merchandising nightmare! For the pledges turned active members, keep your heads high. Should you have any questions about your origin, the alumni will happily share that information. For those that think nothing good has come from our organization, we have many alumni which have gone on to become viable and productive individuals in society. RUF/NEK alum include people like Carl Albert to english teachers, high school principals to members in the FBI, DIA and Navy SEALs, district attorneys to dentists. Waste of time and a worthless organization? Not to those who have been a part of it. FADADA BOHICA ILLEGITAMI NONCARBORUNDUM DON'T LET THE SPIRIT DIE!!!

only NEKS will appreciate this.... ILLIGITIMI NONCARBORUNDUM!!!!!!!!!!!! I say we do a full sweep of all dorms, frat houses and sororities for intoxicating substances on campus, and then hold a mass execution for all perpetrators. Get a life people, you act like this is the end of the world. How many of you self-righteous people have done stupid stuff in your life, especially in college when you first get out in the world? Oh lest we forget that the RUF/NEKS have been seen doing charitable work and supporting our university without any funding except our own.

Sharon- You can set there and talk about someone elses kids that you don't even know or have the facts- tell me that you wouldn't take up for your child. Yes I have read the articles and I'm sure this is not the only organization that has its troubles.Just like I said in the other article a investigation needs to be done in all the organizations and all would probably be banned. But they are human beings that doesn't deserve to be called names by so called adults. We as adults are the example and when they have no positive than how can we expect them too.You have had 2 people apologize to you for the incident that happened with your daughter and you are not even appreciative. I'm with Dylan can't believe a young man would point a gun at a 3 yr old child in the middle of all those people and I can tell you this if it had been my child I would have made a call to the University. I have a 2 1/2 old granddaughter that would not even think about telling someone they are YUKY. Those words would not even come out of her mouth. Thats whats wrong with this world people get into other peoples business that does not even have the facts. I would not even be on this blog if my son was not a RUF/NEK I would have better things to do with my life than talk down a bunch of young men that you don't even know! Yea your right but 95% of the comments that are against have not called these human beings names. Like I said before these are not the young men that did this so why would you hold THEM accountable! How immature! I'm done with this blog My son knows the facts NOT YOU! So have a great life and hopefully your daughter will not pick up on your bad habits!

Hey Lee, when did the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor? Can't believe I didn't hear about it! And after the Japanese bombed Pearl on Dec 7, 1941 you'd think we would have been prepared!
I hope you are not an example of an OU grad!

LOL@franscico

"Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

Maybe they can appeal to the NCAA? I just can't fathom a group of kids, no less, having a few alcoholic drinks. It's mind-boggling and I'm in total disbelief, frankly.

Good move and long overdue. Boren's plan for the future should be good for both the university and the Ruf/Neks. When I was at OU, we would tone down the hazing for a semester or two and then bring it back up after the heat was off. As a participant, I do not believe the hazing and culture of substance abuse was good for anybody and harmed a great many people associated with the club. Hopefully this represents a clean break from a tainted past. The members may feel victimized, but everybody knew the old ways were not in compliance with the new rules. Not being on the football field is a small price to pay; suspension from the university would be a much harsher penalty. As a Ruf/Nek alum, I see this as a chance to transform the club into a service oriented organization that can do more for its members and the university than shoot the guns and ride in the Schooner at football games. The supposed honorable suffering that we all went through can be channeled into community service rather than activities with no sensible purpose. I know that these comments will anger some of my friends and brothers, but I urge you to consider whether or not you would want your own child to go through what we all endured as opposed to being a better citizen of the university and more responsible as a young adult. Let's support a new vision and a better way. Best wishes to all.

I really don't care for the punishment because typically an organization is given some kind of probationary period which doesn't appear to be the case here. I have known several Ruf Neks and would place my life in their hands. But, to say that the pledges could quit at any time they didn't want to participate is kind of an oxymoron because I know exactly how young men full of testosterone and love of football can act toward another that they feel didn't "man" up. They can be cruel and make that persons life hell. I'm not saying this would have happened but to a young, impressionable pledge I'm sure that they would have rather died than "puss" out and be the tittie baby of the group and that's where the peer pressure comes into play. The "hazing" whether it's traditional or not forces young men to behave a way in which they may not feel comfortable with and it really needs to stop even if it isn't imminently dangerous. The drinking needs to be absolutely no part of the Ruf/Nek organization during the athletic seasons that they participate in. Athletes are supposed to restrain themselves from this kind of behavior because it does affect their performance and image in the public eye and I don't think that it is too much to expect any organization that is representing the school on a national level like the cheerleaders, band or Ruf/Neks to hold themselves to the same standards.

The news quoted that OU officials were aware of complaints earlier in the semester. The University-appointed overseer either ignored things or simply did not show up. This is not an excuse for anything but where was the University and why, if they knew there was a potential problem did they do nothing for the past several weeks until they got enough "evidence" to take action. It seems the University simply took advantage of these young men. Yes, they are young men and not the criminals that some of you seem to think they are. I know that the Ruf/nek alumni are coming to the rescue but didn't they participate in the same initiation rites as the current members? Nothing can take away what the classes of 01 through 06 have done. Guys, keep your heads up. There are many of us who know this "penalty" is far beyond what was appropriate.

Tammy - Talk about judgemental. Everyone has their opinions and are entitled. Just because you son is a RUF/NEK doesn't give yo the right to run roughshed over me and my opinions or anyone elses. Go back and read all the posts, yes there are some in support of the RUF/NEKS as well as against. DYLAN - I am no liar and the incident did occur which is why no matter what you Tammy or anyone else says I woud not support this group and as far a I am concerned if there have been problems with them from the beginning (as others have pointed out here), then it is about time that OU administration put somebody over them to make sure that act appropriately and honor the school.
Oh and Dylan, you can still cheer your team on, just not from the field sidelines. Are you going to quite supporting OU because of this? If so, then you were in it for the wrong reasons.

BACK OFF! That is what I have to say to RUF/NEK haters! Those people are as human as you and I. They make mistakes, but to crucify them like is insulting and disgusting. Has a tribunal been held? Has all the evidence been revealed? If so, then shame on them! However, as I just heard this, can we agree that the group is innocent until proven guilty? No, I am not now nor every have been a former RUF/NEK. However, I have NEVER been to an OU football game without their presence. Yes, I know it will continue and yes it will go on, but what level of expertise will these rookies have? Will they "accidentally" fire on the crowd? NO, give me the experienced RUN/NEK. They won't hurt anyone that I'm aware of!

Let me set the record straight from someone who knows. I am a RUF/NEK and i am damn proud to say that. I am tired of hearing things about of that aren't even true. you guys don't even know us and who gives you the right to judge, like you think that you are so much better than us first of all we are not a bunch of drunken idiots who terrorize people at football games. We are people who have a deep love for this university than any of you can possibly even fathom and that’s why we join this club. This club is built around things like pride, tradition, unity, and brotherhood. We are not rejects of fraternities. Some of the guys in this club are in frats, and you can do both at the same time. We are never drunk when we are in uniform and at games or events and that rule is STRICTLY enforced, however, some of us do like to drink when we are not in uniform which should be a problem it’s college. We never shoot our guns directly at someone EVER because that is dangerous and against the law and none of us would ever even think about doing that even to a texas fan that crosses the line. Now Sharon I am sorry for what happened to you but I can’t believe that that story is completely true especially to a kid and if it did happen than I don’t condone what that individual did and I am sorry. Regarding our allegations: we never forced the pledges to do anything they didn’t want to do and they were told that they can quit anything that they wanted to. Everything that we did was to teach our pledges about what it means to be a RUF/NEK and to be a part of OU football tradition. Everything that we did was done in a constructive manner to teach them about the history of the club and university and stressed unity, pride, tradition, and brotherhood. The sleep deprivation comes from staying up all night the night before the OU/texas game to guard the schooner and the ponies. Do you really want the Sooner Schooner and the ponies to be painted burnt orange for the game or even worse. Plus, active members did stay up with the pledges to help guard the schooner and ponies as well. We did drink on the way down to texas, but this was done the day and night before the game and the pledges were never forced to drink against their will. Shocking as it might sound there are people in this club that don’t drink alcohol and haven’t ever even thought about it so it is not something that you must do to be a RUF/NEK. We NEVER EVER treated them like dogs as Kevin sims of koco channel 5 put it. All we did was try to instill in these pledges the history and the tradition of being a RUF/NEK and the brotherhood that we all share. We are the tightest and closest group of guys that you will ever find at OU and each and every one of the RUF/NEKS I consider to be my closest and best friends and the university can never take away the times that we have spent together as BROTHERS. The university went too far with the punishment. Now I am not saying that we don’t deserve punishment because we do, but don’t get rid of everyone who put their time, heart, blood, sweat, and tears into being a RUF/NEK and representing Our university. Reinstitute a different type of process for pledgeship and get rid of the hazing, but don’t get rid of the guys that care the most about the university. I will never get to walk out in front of 85,000 screaming OU fans and shoot another gun, hang upside down in the schooner or wave the OU flag ever again and cheer on my team that I have been rooting for since I was born. I am sorry that these things happened and I hope that you all will not look down upon a group of guys that just wanted to carry on 92 YEARS of tradition and be apart of OU football.

FADADA, DLSD, PTB

LAC5

Good for OU. It's nice to know that the university values the health and safety of its students above "tradition."

stynker in Scottsdale- Noticed your comments about my post earlier. No I'm not an "Aggie" I'm an Okie. I support both schools, but prefer OU over OSU. Personally it's rather silly to make this and OU/OSU issue because it's not. It's about decency and representing ANY institution that is the example of our state and what we are.

The RUF/NEKS have been part of OU history since 1915. We are Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, Chefs, Engineers, chemists, and english teachers. More of us than not contribute a great deal to our communities and all of us support The University of Oklahoma through and through. The end goal of the whole ordeal is to ensure the saftey of the members and pledges, so please don't pass judgement on a person because he is a RUF/NEK. Anyone who has not worn that patch, carried that paddle, or run with the ponies can't begin to understand the responsibility that is placed on their shoulders. Would any of you want the duty to escort the schooner at the OU/texas game? To my fellow RUF/NEKS, hold your heads up, fix the issues.

Too bad this is still America and people do have the freedom of speech. I enjoy reading people's perspectives and thoughts even if I don't agree with them. It leads to some healthy debate.

I say we implement a 100 word maximum for replies. Geez...people. keep your responses short.

Sharon you are a very judgemental person how sad for your daughter and the values you are teaching. This is exactly whats wrong with our youth! Do you even know each individual person on the RufNeks? My son goes to school full time, works almost full time pays his own rent and bills so has very little time with them other than going to the football games- a sport he truly loves! For you to say they are all a bunch of houligans speaks alot about yourself! There are some kids out there that are trying to do good things with their lives. Not all are bad!

Tammy - Unforunately that is what happens now. If you are out with friends and they rob convienence store even though you had nothing to do with you face the same charges they face. It is called guilt by association and people are sent to prison on this charges quite frequently. The very name RUF/NEKS insinuates that they ar a bunch of houligans. Judging from most of the posts, it seems that is how they are viewed. JMHO.