Toolsview all

David Stanley Ford

Hispanics feeling heat of enforcement
Hispanics feeling heat of enforcement

By Devona Walker    Comments Comment on this article153
Published: December 20, 2007

Regardless of citizenship status, Hispanics say they are being hurt by the ongoing immigration debate. In contrast, a recent study by the Congressional Budget Office reports that local and state governments are uniformly incurring costs due to the presence of undocumented immigrants.

More Info

By the Numbers
300,000: Number deported in 2007

84 percent: Rise in deportations over 2002

900 percent: Rise in workplace raids between 2002 and 2007.

7 to 8 million: Estimated number of undocumented workers in the U.S.

1,562: Number of immigration bills introduced around the country as of last month.

244: Number of those bills that were enacted.

$1.6 billion: Budget in 2002 for patrolling the U.S.-Mexico border.

$9 billion: Estimated cost of building a fence along the southwest corridor of the U.S.

$1,700: Cost per arrest along the border, as of 2002.

480,000 to 660,000: Estimated number of illegal immigrants settling in the U.S. between 1990 and 2004.

Sources: Pew Hispanic Center, National Conference of State Legislatures, National Immigration Forum.


More changes in Oklahoma
While immigration continues to poll as a priority for many Oklahoma voters, the state's current immigration law, House Bill 1804, may change during the upcoming legislative season.

Sen. Harry Coates, R-Seminole, has vowed to introduce legislation to repeal portions of HB 1804. Rep. Shane Jett, R-Tecumseh, plans to introduce a companion bill for a program similar to a statewide temporary worker program, softening the blow of the enforcement-heavy HB 1804.

On the other side, Rep. Randy Terrill, R-Moore, plans to introduce what he calls the "Son of HB 1804” to strengthen immigration enforcement.

Coates says HB 1804 hampers economic growth and is causing a mass exodus of legal workers.

"The Hispanic family unit is such that they are not going to turn away a family member. Rather than subject themselves to the problems this immigration legislation has caused, they are pulling up stakes,” Coates said. "We are seeing a mass exodus of not just illegal immigrants but those that are fully documented.”

Oklahoma is home to thousands of families where one or two members are documented while other members of that same family are not.

"Since we are at full employment in Oklahoma, even when you lose a small number of workers, those jobs can't be filled. So companies are scaling back,” Coates said. "Our gross products are going to be affected, just because we do not have an adequate labor force.”

This stress has already begun to percolate into the retail and service sectors, said Guillermo Rojas, a Tulsa restaurateur.

"They don't go to buy cars. They are returning the cars. It's hurting the dealership, the salesman, and the restaurants. They don't sell the car, and then they don't come to spend money at the restaurant,” Rojas said. "The reality is, this is not only affecting illegal residents.”

Advertisement

The Pew Hispanic Center, a nonprofit national research group, reports that more than half of Hispanics recently surveyed fear they, their family or close friends might be deported. About two-thirds say Congress' failure to pass comprehensive immigration reform has made their lives more difficult. They reported increased difficulties in finding housing and work and less access to public services, increased fears over traveling abroad, and a higher likelihood of being asked to produce documents to prove their immigration status.

"A number of our analyses do include citizens and noncitizens. There has been some kind of spillover to citizens. They are feeling some of the same negative effects from the recent changes,” said the report's co-author, Gretchen Livingston, who is a research associate at Pew.

Some feelings might be related to the experiences of family members who are illegal immigrants, but they might also be a byproduct of perceived discrimination and increased scrutiny about their own individual status, Livingston said.

"What is clear is that it is affecting Hispanics regardless of their immigration status,” she added.

For non-Hispanics, about 45 percent approve of local law enforcement taking an active role in immigration enforcement. About 51 percent of non-Hispanics approve of increased worksite enforcement. By the largest margin of all, some 85 percent of non-Hispanics approve of checking immigration status when applying for a driver's license.

Congress tried twice unsuccessfully to pass immigration reform. Subsequent to those failures there has been increased activity by federal, state and local governments. Numerous states including Oklahoma have pushed for statewide immigration enforcement statutes.

What's the fiscal burden?
The Congressional Budget Office recently studied the fiscal impact of unauthorized immigrants on state and local governments. It found tax revenues generated from unauthorized residents do not offset the cost of services. Nor does the federal government adequately reimburse local governments for those additional costs.

It also reports that constitutionally many states have difficulty avoiding those costs. In most states unauthorized immigrants cost states less than 5 percent of the cost to provide citizens those same services. In terms of fiscal deficits, the largest tax burden has been in education, health care and police and fire services.

"We, in the public debate, have ignored those costs for too long,” said Carol Swain, a Vanderbilt University Law professor and author. Swain said illegal immigrants strain low-income workers and criticized their advocates for demonizing dissent. Beyond the highly politicized debate, she says people are paying the price.

In 2004, the Center for Immigration Studies, an anti-illegal immigration think tank, estimated that the net national impact of illegal immigration to be about $10 billion, roughly 0.09 percent of the annual budget at the time — a relatively low number.

What concerns Swain , as well as other critics of illegal immigration is that the benefits of illegal immigration are enjoyed by one group, primarily the businesses that employ them and consumers that use their services. However, the costs are endured by other groups — low-income workers who compete for those jobs and taxpayers.

"It's not costless to the nation. It's not simply a win-win, like immigration advocates would like to portray it,” Swain said.

The worst hit is native citizens, then law-abiding immigrants, she said.

"Those seeking to come to this country legally but cannot because all the attention is focused on one group,” Swain said. "What about the immigrants that are here legally and waiting for green cards and cannot (get them) because the system is clogged up with illegal immigration?”

Poverty does not justify the contradictions, she said.

How things changed here
More than 10 million undocumented immigrants have been added to our population since the 1990s.

That number includes a Tulsa landscaper who moved to the state five years ago for work. He came with a visa, but it expired. He chose not to return to Mexico.

In the last four months, he has watched relatives leave — including a brother who left for Texas and a cousin who moved to Kansas. He has stopped driving, fearing police will deport him during a traffic stop. Now, his life consists of only work. Even there, he says, he is afraid.

"I'm very scared of the law,” he said. "... I have no family here anymore; so many friends are leaving the state because they are afraid. I think they look for Hispanic people.”

"They look at our faces, and they try to see if we are Hispanic, and they are stopping us because of that,” he added.

Also in Tulsa is Antonio Perez, a well-established Hispanic businessman. He owns four grocery stores, and is seeing a significant downturn in business due to House Bill 1804. He says there has been a 30 percent decline in sales, and he is having difficulties keeping workers.

"I'm very worried about the economic impact of HB 1804,” he said. "It's only been a month, and it's already hurting us.”

Toolsview all

David Stanley Ford





Need Affordable Health Care?
Get Affordable Health Insurance Quotes Online - Plans from $30 / Month
USInsuranceOnline.com

Refinance Now at 4.25% Fixed
No hidden fees-4.4% APR! No obligation. Get 4 free quotes. No SSN req.
MortgageRefinance.LendGo.com


Leave a Comment

Something to say about this topic? Submit a Letter to the Editor online

Thank you for joining our conversations on newsok. We encourage your discussions but ask that you stay within the bounds of our terms and conditions. Please help us by reporting comments that violate these guidelines. To review our rules of engagement, go to Commenting and posting policy.


Log in below or sign up (it's free).





Interesting that every reference I have access to shows the term spelled ad hominem rather than ad hominen, however I can admit that I've never studied Latin and therefore am only going by the usage I've encountered in my 34 years. I'm sure you will return to your ad hominem/hominen tactics and use the fact that I don't know Latin to bash my intelligence level, but feel free to do that, as it only proves my point. I would think that a scholar such as yourself would be familiar with that terminology which you are using to call me out as a racist, but you obviously don't recognize the commonly used meaning of it, so why should one trust that you know Latin? I don't see where anyone has disproven anything I've said, only argued with what I've said. I haven't been trying to squirm away from anything, nor have I grown increasingly frustrated. In fact, I find you rather amusing. "When the dust settles and the pages of history are written, it will not be the angry defenders of intolerance who have made the difference. That reward will go to those who dared to step outside the safety of their privacy in order to expose and rout the prevailing prejudices."
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 23, 2007 at 7:30 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
First things first, from my Collins Latin Concise Dictionary: "Argumentum ad hominen, (lit: argument according to the person: Logic) 1...." The definition is not necessary, I'm quoting it only to show that the false little [sic] Paula so cutely inserted there is as phony as she is. Second, I indeed urge any and all interested to go back and re-read through the posts. One will see an ax-grinder with ulterior motives become increasingly frustrated with her inability to get away with half-truths, distortions, phony "facts", non-stop evasions away from issues on point, and outright falsehoods. As this poster has been unable to squirm away from the fact that at every point of the discussion she has been proven wrong, or shown that what she posted in "reply" was superfluous to the topic at hand, she has grown increasingly nasty. And oh, yeah, this poster thinks it's just jim-dandy to indulge in racial slurs. That pretty much covers it as far as this "debate" is concerned, and one and all are welcome to retrace its steps.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 22, 2007 at 10:25 pm
Those who have the desire (and time) to go back and read the posts from the beginning can easily see that the "argumentum ad hominen" [sic] began long ago, and not by myself. Those who have used it here have failed to recognize it in themselves and have projected it upon others.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 22, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
and gayson..you and doofus should go on a date. maybe add randy for a third...since i am his largest campaign contributer im sure i can get it arranged.
Randy, Moore - Dec 22, 2007 at 4:52 pm
and jason...what is your crowd? the right wing church freaks? the do nothing for society group? the sit around and post all day group? you belong in randy's group...which is all above and even more pathetic? jason been to a bar lately? been to a sporting event? gone on a date with a woman lately? did you go to work lately? how about pay some taxes jason....your no better than the illegals...but at least they paid taxes and generated revenues..something you can not seem to do.
Randy, Moore - Dec 22, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Argumentum ad hominen is always the last resort of those who have essentially conceded the argument, and have nothing left to say. With the pro-illegal alien apologist crowd, the onset of this stage of the debate is usually sooner than later, as is the case here.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 22, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Yet more ridiculous accusations from someone who has low self-esteem and no reading comprehension skills.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 22, 2007 at 9:24 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
Why have none of the candidates for President take a stand on the illegal immigration issue?
JH, deep red creek - Dec 21, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore JH
You know what they say about figures, but which ever there are still to many.
JH, deep red creek - Dec 21, 2007 at 7:18 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore JH
Rufus, the facts in your post stand unrefuted, despite yet more burbling silliness from yet another pro-illegal alien apologist. Well done.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 21, 2007 at 6:49 pm
No Rufus, you didn't say 81% of Hispanics were illegal, but if you read what I said (gee, there seems to be a real problem with people reading what I said) in response to your comment of "they aren't suppose [sic] to be here." ________ "Why are Hispanics not supposed to be here? It sounds to me like you are taking the meaning of 81% of illegals being Hispanic (still unsourced, and statistics like that are always based on estimates, not real numbers) and twisting it around to 81% of Hispanics being illegal. I don't think that's the way it works." I was providing clarification, lest anyone use your comments to turn the statistic around, since you yourself weren't clear about what you meant. And pay no attention to the poster who thinks he knows me. He's getting desperate in his attempts to shut me up. Funny, since he's the one who was screaming so loud that he's tired of being told to "shut up if you don't agree with me" which is exactly what he's trying to do to me. Since he can't do it with his flimsy rebuttals he's now resorting to name-calling and word twisting. The transparency of his MO is astounding.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
Also, Rufus, Paula thinks its cute to use racial slurs, then deny she knew it was a slur - or refuse to admit it. Her posts are really a trademark example of the ugly side of the anonymous internet poster.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Rufus, you're wasting your time with that one: quote her some facts and she responds with turgid non sequiturs, airy piffle, and half-truths - and reams and reams of it. Point out a specific fact and instead of refuting it, she just spews PC-speak and absurd cliches. She obviously has some kind of self-interested ax to grind here, and refuses to deal with specific issues, instead preferring the inanity of trite sound bites.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:29 pm
paula, I said 81% of illegals are hispanic, not 81% of hispanics are illegal.. I think the popular number is 40% of all hispanics in this country are here illegally, give or take. if we were to follow the lead of the open borders advocates, perhaps law enforcement should no longer refer to inebriated drivers as “drunk drivers” but instead should call them "sobriety challenged motorists." We then referred to murderers as "unauthorized executioners" and suggested that rapists might be henceforth known as "over-eager suitors!" Burglars would become "uninvited house guests" and bank robbers would be called "unauthorized funds withdrawers!" You get the picture. We can't even tell who these people are, they could be anyone. the 19 terrorists involved in the 9/11 attacks were said to have used 261 different identities in total to mask their movements and whereabouts...
Rufus, spencer - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Again, that still doesn't equate to 81% of Hispanics being illegal. Even on the highest end of your estimates, less than half of Hispanics are illegal. Some communities will probably have more than others. But that still doesn't explain your statement of "I'm sure the law is going to affect hispanic communties because they are not suppose to be here in this country." You're making it sound like no one in those Hispanic communities should be here, when at least 62% of them and possibly as many as 83% of them have gone through the proper channels and are not breaking any laws by residing in the United States.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
it's estimated those census figures are incorrect by millions since many illegals are never counted(example, in sanctuary cities like LA and Dallas officials are not allowed to ask about citizenship status). there are an estimated 12 to 20 million depending on who stat's you look at. Example, the hispanic community in Guymon is over half illegals, would that not cut their numbers in half thus affecting their communites.??
Rufus, spencer - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:06 pm
"I'm sure the law is going to affect hispanic communties because they are not suppose to be here in this country." _____ Why are Hispanics not supposed to be here? It sounds to me like you are taking the meaning of 81% of illegals being Hispanic (still unsourced, and statistics like that are always based on estimates, not real numbers) and twisting it around to 81% of Hispanics being illegal. I don't think that's the way it works. According to the US Census Bureau, there are 8.7 million illegal immigrants in the US. If 81% of them are Hispanic, that would make the number 7.047 million illegal Hispanics. There are 42.7 million Hispanics total (again, US Census Bureau numbers) so by those numbers, about 16.5% of Hispanics are illegal. That means 83.5% are legal.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
Paula & Bud, you both really deserve an A for effort, but I feel you won't make much headway with this group of posters. I appreciated your thoughts, so thanks for posting them. I'd only like to add that there isn't much difference in the greed of the HB 1804 opponents and the greed of the HB 1804 advocates. One gains from cheap labor & the other from saving their all-mighty tax dollars.
Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Surely a cop would never abuse their authority..(sarcasm) Nothing new about that. With 81% of illegals being hispanic I'm sure the law is going to affect hispanic communties because they are not suppose to be here in this country. Citizens can be prosecuted for "KNOWINGLY" hiring, transporting, harboring illegals, they should be, they are part of the problem. When the smoke clears and all of them are out of Oklahoma the state will see massive benefits in taxes saved. I read the latest economic report this morning for Oklahoma, we are ahead of the national average in Ecomomic growth already...
Rufus, spencer - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Rufus, let me restate a previous post since you also seem to have missed it. "I never said the bill itself was discriminatory. That was another commenter. But many people take these new laws as the okay to openly discriminate against Hispanic people, regardless of their immigration status. You don't know when you see someone in the grocery store or the bank or wherever if they are illegal, or legal, or citizens, even! If you hear someone speaking Spanish or listening to Latin music, you don't know if they only speak Spanish or if they are bilingual. And if you've read everything I've said, you'll see where I noted that I don't blame this bill solely for the discrimination, but I do believe it's given people the impression that it's okay to make certain assumptions, and comments, and take certain actions, against an entire culture."
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
ohhh Doofus in spencer...go dig a ditch
Randy, Moore - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:24 pm
yeah gayson is up. so gayson what were you doing up at 2am? working on your run for governor? still using your 2 dollar words. you should change your name to Thesuarus. hey were getting together later for the bowl game and some beers. you know...supporting the businesses...raiseing tax dollars.... come on fella..ill buy you some beers and a dinner... lets truely see who garners the pity.
Randy, Moore - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:23 pm
The conversations I've participated in here began in reference to the impact HB 1804 has had on people who are here legally. I stated early in the conversations, and more than once since, that I am not pro-illegal alien, and your insistence upon referring to me as such proves that you a) either have not read or have not comprehended my posts and b) refuse to accept anything but your own beliefs and refuse to admit that you may have been wrong in your original assessment. This is further reinforced by the fact that even though I've addressed your ridiculous accusations you continue to ignore them, very much like a child on the playground with his fingers as far inside his ear canals as they'll go sing-songing, "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU." Had I known that these were your tactics I would never have engaged in discussion with you. You exhibit typical internet troll behavior. I prefer to debate with people who don't have to degrade others to build their argument. You do seem to have a grasp on English and grammar and it gives you the appearance of being intelligent, but it's too bad you don't aspire to utilize that intelligence for anything more than mud-slinging. That's a shameful waste of resources.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
I think I've established the HB 1804 contains not one iota of racism in it. I've asked and asked and asked for ANY PRO-ILLEGAL to quote ANY part of the law that is racist. No one has been able to because they can't. It's a color blind law.
Rufus, spencer - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Again, reams and reams of PC-speak, and not a single relevant posted fact. This issue under discussion is not anyone's willingness to "recognize anything but your own language and culture" (more cotton candy cliches), but the problem of illegal immigration to this country, its effects, and what should be done about it, all within the context of this article. All you do is post about "feelings" - how your friend got his feelers hurt, how it made you mad, how you think the entire western hemisphere is one big "America," how you think using Spanish as a vernacular in our country is just jim dandy, etc. , etc. And you continue to stand behind your use of a racial slur. Unbelievable. Of all the pro-illegal alien posters on this forum, your post must be both the most vacuous and arrogant at the same time.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 21, 2007 at 1:57 pm
I think your assumptions about me must reflect things about yourself. It's commonly known that the term "white-bread" means common, bland, conventional. The way in which it was used in my post doesn't pertain to race. If you are not aware of the usage of the term that isn't my fault, and I will not take responsibility for your misassumptions and misinformation. Your unwillingness to recognize anything but your own language and culture reeks of elitism and delusions of grandeur. Your attempts to pawn your contemptible qualities off on me also has a term - projecting. You sir need a mirror. Feliz navidad, vato.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 21, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
Poor todd. Such feelings of inadequacy and inferiority. As I've long said, more to be pitied than censored. Sad.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 21, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Paula, your most recent non-answer "answer"--a paragraph full of piffle--speaks volumes. You simply are not equipped to engage the issue under discussion without responding with cotton candy cliches ("It isn't contemptible to learn about other cultures. It isn't unpatriotic to want to live and let live"). Also, your use of a racial slur--and refusal to recognize and apologize for it--pretty much tells me what I already suspected: your use of ugly language to advance your argument is the sure sign of an ugly mind, and is, indeed, contemptible. Good day to you, ma'am.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 21, 2007 at 1:29 pm
lol jason...you were here at 2:12 posting last night...you finally close down a bar, you worthless piece of flesh?
Randy, Moore - Dec 21, 2007 at 11:34 am
if you dont speak cherokee you need to leave the state of oklahoma. it doesnt matter to me. i just sit around posting my two dollar words that come out of my 10 cent mouth. i sit around and sponge off taxpayers. i have no job. i live, alone, in my apartment and cant afford to put anything back into society. i do however, find it much more easy to be a racist. they are alot like me. semi-educated, poor, bad hygiene. i assume false identity's on this board all the time. i have nothing else to do. i have no girlfriends, job, i dont support local sports, arts, or entertainment. i do like to sit around with doofus and rile up all the ignorant little minded okies. see look at the post below mine. doofus says that paying for 300 illegals to be in jail is much better than having them mow lawns and paying taxes. and i agree. because illegal is illegal. thats why i dont drive a car anymore. i cant seem to follow ALL the laws. i also have a pill problem that was brought about by depression, and loneliness. todd in norman wants me to come hang out but i am to ashamed. i think i am to ugly to hang out with the fun and light folks. plus i dont think that todd goes to church.
Randy, Moore - Dec 21, 2007 at 11:33 am
WE NEED A NEW SHERIFF!!!!!!!!!In 2005, Arizona passed a law making it a felony, punishable by up to 2 years in jail, to smuggle someone across the border. Maricopa County Attorney Andrew P. Thomas has issued a legal opinion that those being smuggled can be considered co-conspirators to the smuggling and thusly can be charged under the same law. Under this opinion, Arpaio has instructed his deputies and members of his civilian posse to round up and arrest suspected illegal aliens. Arpaio said to Fox News, "My message is clear: If you come here and I catch you, you're going straight to jail. [...] I'm not going to turn these people over to federal authorities so they can have a free ride back to Mexico. I'll give them a free ride to my jail."[14] To date, Arpaio has arrested at least 263 people under this program.[15]

One of Arpaio's unorthodox practices includes the requirement that these inmates sing "God Bless America" and the "Star Spangled Banner."

The county attorney's legal opinion is being challenged in court. Many critics, including two of the co-authors of the Arizona anti-smuggling law, claim that Thomas and Arpaio are misusing the statute, which was meant only for human smugglers and not for illegals who are being smuggled.[16]

Rufus, spencer - Dec 21, 2007 at 8:37 am
So because I've not ever studied the language of the Cherokee people that makes me uneducated in every area? So should I assume that you know everything there is to know? Because otherwise, by your definitions, you'd be ignorant as well. White-bread means the same as vanilla. White-BRED would be a racial slur. I was careful not to use the latter. I am Caucasian myself, why would I want to put down my own heritage? No, it was a statement that means your world and what you know is not all there is. It isn't contemptible to learn about other cultures. It isn't unpatriotic to want to live and let live. I believe that specific conversation was about language, not about immigration. As I've stated before, I realize there is an immigration problem. And I don't support people being here illegally. Obviously you have a reading comprehension problem because I've said it several times, and I don't think I could be any more clear about it than that.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 21, 2007 at 8:10 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
todd, aka "haskell", aka "Jason", etc., no one here has ever expected you to be anything but yourself - and not once has anyone I've ever seen ridiculed you on this forum for being just that. You have chosen, sadly, to invite the scorn you currently receive for trying to pretend you're people that you are not. I remember quite well an exchange we had where you said something to the effect that "you're smarter than me" and I told you that wasn't true: that in areas of knowledge and experience I probably couldn't even start to understand in this world your expertise no doubt outstripped mine. This is the nature of men and women everywhere, the nature of humanity: I sincerely believe it. Sadly, for whatever reason, you have decided that instead of just being yourself and expressing your opinions--right, wrong, or indifferent--in these forums you must assume the identities of others, and post things beneath the dignity of even the meanest and most petty-minded among us. It is not necessary. You can be yourself, seriously. I doubt you will, but I still urge you to give it a try. The persona you've taken on for quite some time now is one that only makes folks roll their eyes, snicker, and dismiss your sad act. And you. It doesn't have to be that way.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:13 am
For all you city folks, I do exist and I am who I am. I am an old country boy who does not use all the mumbojumbo words that some do. I would put my education up against the best of you, but what would that mean. We have a problem not just in our state but our country. The Constitution is not being enforced by the Federal government and if we the people do not pressure them to do so, illegals from Mexico will be the least of our problems.
JH, deep red creek - Dec 21, 2007 at 1:14 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore JH
LOL, one final Paula quote: "I'm not very educated in that area."___Or any other, it would seem. Hmmm...methinks she doth protest a bit too much. Is it just as she says? She has a mere "friend" who inspires her to spend hours on end pimping the pro-illegal alien cause on a web forum? That impels her to post reams and reams of dessicated nonsense? Let's just say I'm highly dubious of that theory, and postulate that there might be something else afoot...
Jason, Edmond - Dec 21, 2007 at 12:29 am
"I don't get the hang-up about language."___Paula, that shows the core of your ignorance: a nation is many things, but one supreme factor that binds it together is a common language. History is obviously not your forte. "white-bread American standards."___What a contemptible comment. Those "white-bread" (that's a racial slur, folks) "American standards" built the most powerful, free, and prosperous Republic on the face of the earth EVER. That intellectual pygmies feel free to disdain it says more about them than it does about those "white-bread American standards" which provide you the liberty to spew your silliness freely. "P.S. there are other countries in America than the U.S. you know. Canada, Mexico, and all the LATIN countries in South America are all still, get this, AMERICAN countries. And they don't all speak English."___No, Paula, wrong. The analogy is so silly as to be almost incredible to have to refute, about like your earlier nonsense about a vacation trip to France. Paula, when we say "American" it is a term that applies within our country to United States citizens. When we speak of THE AMERICAS, we are talking of a hemisphere. A Brazilian is not an "American" - he is a Brazilian. A Canadian is not an "American" - he is a Canadian. Your semantic games have grown silly. Indeed, you can sputter, spit, and spew all you wish, but the bottom line is that the "hang-up" you have is one of a private ax you have to grind regarding this issue. Your opinions are of little account to those of us who see through the thin veneer of semi-coherent nonsense you seem to believe amounts to some kind of justification for the unlawful presence of millions of arrogant criminals squatting in our country.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 21, 2007 at 12:12 am
Define "True American" please, Todd. Because I know someone who is an American, born and bred in Oklahoma in fact, who is fluent in English and Spanish. She speaks both languages. I know a man who was born in Oklahoma who speaks English and Cherokee (sorry if that's not the correct expression for the language of the Cherokee tribe - I'm not very educated in that area.) I know a LOT of Americans who don't speak JUST English. Regardless, there is no official language of this country, and there are no laws making the use of other languages illegal, even in public. I don't get the hang-up about language. It seems pretty self-centered to think that in a melting pot such as this, we should force people to forget they ever knew any other language or culture than white-bread American standards. P.S. there are other countries in America than the U.S. you know. Canada, Mexico, and all the LATIN countries in South America are all still, get this, AMERICAN countries. And they don't all speak English.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
Paula, it is true that there is one person using several differant names to post comments. She does the same thing with the Tulsa World newspaper. She will post a comment, then she will post another comment using a differant name to answer herself. One can tell it is the same person by the way she expresses herself. She seems to think she has all the answers and no one is right but her. I am not referring to the same person that Jason is referring to, there is another one doing the same thing, or who knows, maybe that is her too. I think she must be in a mental facility and has access to a computer, becausr she is posting 24 hours a day.
Glenna, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Paula, all one has to do is go to their registration profile and they can change their name to whatever they wish. There is a sad little man named todd who frequently "assumes" the name of posters whose commentary he dislikes, and then he posts all sort of absurd rubbish under their pseudonym, much of it revealing a deep-seated obsession with homosexuality. You can always tell his trolling, however, because he is barely literate and apparently had never learned how to capitalize words by the time his formal education was completed. He goes under the name "haskell, randlett" quite a bit, at least lately. But usually he just uses my name and city. More to be pitied than censored, really, and if you hang around here very long you'll learn to spot him in a heartbeat.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 20, 2007 at 8:32 pm
haskell, the only person on this forum that isn't a real person is the jason from Edmond that writes ridiculous things in the comment section & picks on the real jason from Edmond, who I might ad is very intelligent & the other jason stole his identity. Why?? because he feels inferior & knows he can't compete in the conversations he has with the real Jason. One last thought you should speak english because if you are a true American that is what we speak & to do anything different outside of your private home is just plain rude.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 20, 2007 at 7:33 pm
paula, from what i hear and read, there may be just a hand full of people that are "real", the rest are one person with multiple personalities...sad to say, but watch their mumbojumbo and you can figure them out...
JH, deep red creek - Dec 20, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore JH
It's about time.
Earl, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Earl
The mexican mantra

All of the laws should be enforced equally, regardless of race, religion, and/or national origin. That is with the exception of mexicans, and they should be above the law and exempt from the law. And the only purpose that a tonto gringo serves is to pay taxes to support the superior and noble mexican.

Anyone who disagrees with this philosophy is Xenophobic and a Racist.

Pancho

All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
George Orwell, Animal Farm, ch.10, 1945
Pancho, Jamestown - Dec 20, 2007 at 6:07 pm
I sure hope there are two different Jasons in Edmond. Otherwise it would appear that someone either forgot to log off and log back in under their sockpuppet name, or that someone has multiple personalities that enjoy arguing with each other over the internet.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 5:48 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
My "family trip to France" is not deeply flawed. You said my friend should speak English or go back to Mexico. However, my friend is not here to set up shop as an illegal squatter. Once again, my friend is here legally. He is also not here to sponge off the taxpayers. He IS a taxpayer. And since he is male, he will never be having an "anchor baby". Tell me once again why he should speak English 100% of the time? Because thus far you haven't given me any reasons that apply to him.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
yeah gayson...going to feista bowl? how about some voulunteer work gayson?
Randy, Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 5:08 pm
James, I'm amazed they caught him, too. Even more amazed that the Mexican government is apparently agreeing to extradite him. Wonder how long it takes our pro-illegal alien apologists to start "blaming the victim" in this case? See, she didn't "understand his culture" because of her "white privilege" and thus caused him "mental anguish" that caused him to "lash out" against "institutional racism". Seriously, I've seen that argument made in a similar case. The pro-illegal alien/multiculturalism wowsers are absolutely shameless.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 20, 2007 at 5:03 pm
todd from Norman is off his meds again, I see.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 20, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Paula, your "family trip to France" analogy is deeply flawed, not the least because on such a trip I wouldn't be in France to set up shop as an illegal squatter, sponging off the taxpayers of France, and my wife wouldn't be trying to have an "anchor baby" so we could whine about how mean "the children" were being treated when the French government took steps to deport us. Speaking of which, I've been to France, in my younger, single days. The food is overrated, the female companionship is not.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 20, 2007 at 4:57 pm
paula...your argueing with a pool-boy.
Randy, Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 4:53 pm
LOL jason you still posting your racist dribble on this board. you and rufus should go buy a six pack and split it. oh...im sorry you guys cant afford it right?? hows the moon tan jason? get any girls to go out with you in the past two weeks? yeah your racist, if your in this country you dont have to speak english...you dont have to be served either.. in this country even sad little neglected imbiciles like yourself are allowed a vote. and one other thing my church-going, fat, republican, no money having brother... you should watch "sicko". even mexico and cuba have better medical benefits than this country. maybe if you werent so jealous that mexicans compete with you over your unemployment welfare money, you may be able to get a chick...drink a beer, go to a sporting event, take a vacation, graduate from your granimal underwear, get off mommy's milk. you are one sad soul. tell your churchie's and doofus..i mean rufus to pray for your racist damned soul.
Randy, Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 4:53 pm
My friend speaks Spanish at work because many of his clients speak Spanish. Being bilingual is an asset, not something to be ashamed of. If you were to speak to him on the phone without the benefit of the visual, you wouldn't realize that he's Hispanic. He hasn't a trace of an accent. He's been speaking English since before he began primary school. And he's no less American than anyone else in this forum. And I still fail to see how my comments make me pro-illegal. You've obviously failed to read what I have said, or you're only selecting the things that suit you. I, as well as my friend (not sure why you put that in quotes by the way, as that's exactly what he is - a friend. My best friend since high school) realize that there is an immigration problem in this country. That's not something I'm disputing.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
Jason my friend does speak English. And I would wager that he speaks it better than many people here on this forum. I find it interesting that you really believe that if you went with your family on a trip to France that you would only speak French the whole time, even to each other. I don't believe that. You'd speak English to your family because it's what you're comfortable with. It's your first language, your native language. It's my friend's as well, and one that he speaks 95% of the time. He certainly doesn't go around speaking Spanish to everyone. But if someone speaks to him in Spanish because it's what they're more comfortable with and understand better, he's going to answer them in Spanish. There is no law against speaking a language other than English in this country. Try not to be so elitist with your next rebuttal.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
If you ever go to mexico and rent a car, make sure you include the $200 dollar bribe to the local police when you get pulled over for nothing as a cost of renting in their corrupt nation. Corruption is part and has been part of the culture since the Spanish conquered it hundreds of years ago. That is not racism, that is a fact. The drug kings own the border on the mexico side and owns about half of it on the US side..
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Jaso - Here's a quote from an article: "The Emily Sander Murder case has raised concern as she went missing since last Friday. Sander was last seen on Friday with the illegal immigrant Israel Mireles by the Retreat Bar. She was recovered dead and drenched in a pool of blood in the very next morning."____________ Had this not been such a sensational case, this guy would have easily disappeared. I'm amazed they were able to get extradition.
James, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Paula, your "friend" should speak English or go back home to Mexico. He is in America now. The arrogance of your pro-illegal alien apologists is breath-taking: I guarantee you that if the shoe were on the other foot, and an American in Mexico insisted on speaking English to everyone, Paula here would be one of the first ones screaming "respect their culture! Speak Spanish in their country!" What a joke this line of argumentation from Paula has become.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 20, 2007 at 3:47 pm
I have no soap box. Do you not get offended when people question the integrity and honesty of those you love? I do. And that's why my opinion is as it is. There are many things that my friend is subjected to during the course of his day. At least once a week people tell him to "speak english or go back where you came from!" Where exactly would that be? Guymon? Dallas? Houston? Or would it be a country in which he has not lived since he was a toddler? He speaks Spanish sometimes because it is the native language of some of his customers, but English is for all intents and purposes his first language. And let's not overlook when he was handcuffed to a bench at the police station for a mere parking ticket. I could name at least a dozen other things that my friend and others like him have faced. No it did not originate with the passing of this law, but the passing of this law makes it easier for people to behave in this manner because they have the backing of the government. And this is not the same as increased security at the airport. This is in the course of everyday living. Should any law-abiding person be subjected to such things "just because"? No. I welcome extra security at the airport because I want to arrive safely at my destination. I don't welcome being unreasonably detained when I go to pay a parking ticket simply because of my skin color or my appearance or the sound of my name.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
meant to spell everything right , but didn't.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 20, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Paula, come down from your soap box & give us some hard facts if you have any? Prove your point. Just like the rest you have a special interest in this article, your legal hispanic friend . A lot of people are discriminated against for one reason or another you are using this law as part of the reason for it. Could it possibly be just a rude person doing this or does he have to be basing his judgement on this law???? If you really look into the facts I think you will find that the numbers speak for themselves as far as how many Latin people are here as opposed to ohters.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 20, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Yes it is Paula. Mexico in particular is the most corrupt country in latin american. From their government, police force down to the local citizens. Bribery is part of the culture as well as extortion (especially US tourists). I wouldn't allow my son to go to cancun on his high school senior trip because I feared for his safety down there.
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Anyone see the news out of El Dorado, Kansas posted as another article on this forum? Those of you pimping for all the illegal immigration the nation can stand--which according to most of you pro-illegal alien apologists is the entire world migrating here--should be very proud of that charming "undocumented worker". Yes sir indeed, so very proud.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 20, 2007 at 3:14 pm
And it's comments like this: "It is part of their culture to break the law" in reference to ANY one culture that prove my point. You assume that because 80% (unsourced) of undocumented aliens are from Latin American countries that it is a reflection of the morality and lawfulness of the culture as a whole. That's not a fair assessment, nor is it a correct one.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
It's estimated that 8 out of every 10 illegals are from latin American countries. So millions of hispanics knowingly break our laws coming here. It is part of their culture to break the law. Hispanic organizations have sprung up nationwide to show these invaders how to "beat" the system with id fraud, how to obtain free medical care by just showing up at an emergency room to avoid paying for the services, welfare benefits, ect. ect... These organizations (like the latino clergy) are themselves violating federal law on a national bases enabling mass invasion from latin america. They are the ones screaming racism the loudest, only this time, it is not working.
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 2:47 pm
I never said the bill itself was discriminatory. That was another commenter. But many people take these new laws as the okay to openly discriminate against Hispanic people, regardless of their immigration status. You don't know when you see someone in the grocery store or the bank or wherever if they are illegal, or legal, or citizens, even! If you hear someone speaking Spanish or listening to Latin music, you don't know if they only speak Spanish or if they are bilingual. And if you've read everything I've said, you'll see where I noted that I don't blame this bill solely for the discrimination, but I do believe it's given people the impression that it's okay to make certain assumptions, and comments, and take certain actions, against an entire culture. Jason, fyi I am a decent and informed person, and I've seen the discrimination first-hand. I don't condone stifling anyone's opinion and I've never told anyone to shut up if they don't agree with me. But your comments about my "yakking" on and others' comments about me being "naive" sure indicates that you wish me to shut up because I don't agree with you. Double standard much?
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
"started" = should be "shrieked"
Jason, Edmond - Dec 20, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Bud, every single premise you have posited in this discussion has either been 1. a distortion of facts/history 2. a peculiarly grotesque example of special pleading 3. or outright false. Your commentary, sir, is largely a tissue of facetious piffle.____Paula, that yakking on and on and on about "discrimination" doesn't work with decent, informed people anymore. Oh, it used too, when people were afraid to utter so much as a peep in opposition to anyone who started "discrimination!". But that stuff closes out of town these days, as people have gotten fed up with all the politically correct code phrases for "shut-up if you don't agree with me!", and are speaking their minds more openly.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 20, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Devona quit engaging in pc speak.."Undocumented immigrant" =illegal alien lawbreakers.Where is Harry TurnCoates to explain how much he loves the alien invasion. Scum like TurnCoates only want cheap labor and even cheaper people to pad their pockets.Illegals bring gangs,trash, overcrowding,and mestizo invaders who are products of a backward,corrupt,cesspool called Mexico.
These rejects cost millions in that we have to educate their children,pay for their visits to the emergency rooms,and incarceration costs for their violent ways.Who would want to live in a neighborhood largely populated by these people.Junked cars,overcrowded houses,noise and gangs.As the liberals chirp about so-called diversity they usually live as far away as possible from the subjects of their adulation.
charles, tulsa - Dec 20, 2007 at 12:55 pm
KYTJA WEIR Staff Writer -

Charlotte Observer -

Six men were in custody Monday, charged with gang raping a 37-year-old woman visiting a Huntersville home over the weekend.

But Huntersville police are still looking for a seventh man.

The woman, whom police did not identify, visited a trailer home in the 11000 block of Cimmaron Road on the southwestern edge of Huntersville around 9:30 p.m. Saturday night, said Huntersville police Lt. Ken Richardson. The friend and six other men held the woman at the home for at least six hours and repeatedly raped her, Richardson said. Huntersville police visited the home Sunday afternoon to collect evidence and found the men were in the country illegally. The men charged are Blas Ceron Santiago, 27; Rafael Ceron Santiago, 23; Alfredo Munoz Perez, 26; and Antonio Islas Lucio, 24. All lived at the trailer. Also charged are Eladio Castillo Castillo, 28, who lives in Cornelius; and Alejandro Morales Suarez, 25, who lives elsewhere in Huntersville, police said.

J.T.(I), Norman - Dec 20, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Interesting, I've asked for several weekends for ANYONE to quote ANY part of the new 1804 law that is racist or discrimitory, and NO ONE has ever bothered to do it. Why is that???
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Paula, would you quote 'any' part of 1804 that is racist or discriminates?
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 12:35 pm
If you think my being opposed to government sanctioned discrimination is less than patriotic you are wrong. What's more frightening is that you are apparently equating patriotism with blind faith in the government.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 12:27 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
todd, we would never know about money from mexico unless we asked. have we ever asked?
JH, deep red creek - Dec 20, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore JH
If you can't see how divisive (I assume that's what you meant) things like this are (not limited to this, but definitely including it) then you sir are the naive one. Hatred is poisonous to the self. If you don't get rid of it you are hurting yourself way more than anyone you direct it outward at.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
We could send Mr. Dees some money. I hear he's gotten quite wealthy off his SPLC tactics and misleading fundraising by calling everyone a racist and filing frivilous lawsuits.
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 12:02 pm
Well Todd, Rufus and all you other patriotic citizens of this state. I need to go take care of some every day chores, so I'll leave you good people to deal with the Oklahoman's planted patrons. Have a good day.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 12:01 pm
That's rich. F.A.I.R. has been labeled a racist group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, home of the Superman of the NAACP who claimed that the entire GOP was a Nazi organization. Gee, why should care what him and his buddies have to say?
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:53 am
I keep reading 1804 is racist. Can someone quote ANY part of the law and prove that?
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:53 am
Correction stinker, the Oklahoma relies on squigs like you to make sure the readers of their rag get pointed in the right direction to get this garbage without them having to take the risk of being called a garbage rag of a paper. But the Oklahoman is what it is, a garbage rag of a paper.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:36 am
Gary in OKC--The law is racist. It's the Southern Poverty Law Center that reports the group who helped Terrill write it--FAIR--is a hate group. It's here: http://www.splcenter.org/ The Gazette just reported it. Oh, and they interviewed your hero, Terrill. If you want to see what he says, read THEM. One thing is for sure, you won't read news like that in THIS newspaper. The Oklahoman keeps that kind of thing quiet.
stinkerpants, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:26 am
T.A. I think to tell the truth that this paper has people that just sit & try to keep this argument going. Bud in my opinion is exactly what he called low income citizens ( worthless) I am sure this comment will be deleted by the people that monitor it because it shames the paper , truth hurts. Bud has no argument in my opinion.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:25 am
Todd, it appears as though Bub didn't like getting caught and has fled rather than admit he actually was/is profiting off illegals.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:16 am
Stop trying to appear so naive Paula. You comment about the voting says you’ve either never registered to vote or you’re in denial. And please don't pull the "decisive" and "hate monger" cards with me. They won't work either. When it comes to this invasion, it is a matter of us against them.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:15 am
People like Coates with his interest in the illegals should be proof enough that this is about hurting the greedy & their construction companies, restaraunts, hotels & farms. I can't wait until election time to rid our state government of the bleeding heart section & I know I am not alone in my thinking. T.A. you could probably make a safe bet that Bud owns a few illegals.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:10 am
How exactly does one get "votes" from an illegal alien? Even LEGAL residents cannot vote. Only citizens. And I think you missed where I said even my (Hispanic) roommate/best friend will admit that there is a problem with immigration. But this bill is only further splitting the country. Everything these days is "us" against "them" regardless of what side you're on. There's so much animosity. It's disheartening to see some of the vitriol spewed here.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:09 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:09 am
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:07 am
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:06 am
I'm just "asking serious questions about your" business Bub. Come on, share with all of us what line of business you're in that makes you so concerned about the illegals in this state.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:03 am
You "implied" that my son did something to warrant losing his job and there was far less evidence of your "implication" than there is of mine. So it is you that is making assumptions not based on fact. It is you that can't stand up to someone who challenges your arguments with facts. And yes, you have done nothing but advocate this invasion. Facts are facts Bub.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 11:01 am
There isn’t one person in my family that hasn’t been negatively affected by the illegal invasion of this state in the past 5 years. But greedy businesses, greedy employers, greedy slum lords, greedy clergy, and greedy politicians couldn’t care less about the families of citizens. They’re willing to lie through their teeth and resort to any means to keep their ill-gotten $$$ and votes from illegals streaming in.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:57 am
Oh, and now you imply I employ illegals. All you have to offer are ad hominem attacks. You can't stand up to anyone who challenges your arguments without resorting to quesitoning their motives. The arguments are the arguments, the logic is the logic, and you girls can't keep up. Sorry, but it would seem I'm the one wasting my time.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:56 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
stinkerpants - using the oklahoma gazette as a source show's your ignorance. That paper is a "looney left" piece of trash that is or was run by a ignoramus by the name of Frosty Troy.
Gary, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:53 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Gary
T.A., so now not only in addition to advocating an invasion of my homeland, I also have some character flaw for asking serious questions about your son's experience. Hmm, I think you are trying to tell me how I think. You brought up your son's situation, not me. All I wanted to clarify is how much of this is your opinion and how much of it is fact. It seems peculiar to me that someone could be forced out of the state using "mafia" style tactics and nothing reported about it in the news. Your son's story sounds remarkable, for sure. But at no time have I ever said illegals are never guilty of criminal activity. Again, you make assumptions not based on any fact. Don't get upset and start making false remarks about another when your facts come into question.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:52 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
Todd, he can deny it all he wants, but he's exposed himself as one of many greedy people in this state that is only interested in what they can make off the illegals and is now all bent out of shape because his golden goose is being sent away. He could care less what the cost of that goose has been to the average citizen.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:52 am
"Randy the Great" LOL. I'll have to tell him about that one.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:48 am
T.A. you as well as myself are wasting words on this guy Bud he doesn't get & never will. Rufus, evidently Mr. Perez isn't receiving as many foodstamps as he normally would .
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:46 am
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:44 am
Bud, you stated earlier that you own a business. What business would that be? How many illegals are working for you right now?
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:44 am
Bud, the details concerning my son were indeed reported to the authorities, but they aren't really any of your business. Furthermore, I find your attempts to make him out to be the bad guy very telling of your character. You seem to think illegals are never guilty of doing anything criminal when the fact is their very existence in this country is criminal.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:41 am
the word should have been wrote!!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:39 am
Bud, It has to start somewhere & Oklahoma is doing a great job by making this Hb a law. One state at a time & Arizona I think is leading the way & we are not far behind, so good job whomever write the law. We were a better state before they came here & will be better when they leave.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:39 am
who cares who authored 1804, it's a great law that is working. Of course some businesses that cater to illegals or exploit them to underbid competition are going to suffer, good. Antonio Perez can close his grocery stores if business isn't good, I shop at Wal Mart...
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:33 am
Low income jobs? To hear you advocates of this invasion talk the only jobs illegals took were in slaughter houses, picking cabbages, and landscaping. But that's another lie on top of all the other lies. The majority of those jobs were NOT low income jobs until the illegals got here. They consisted of jobs in building construction, road work, manufacturing, etc.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:32 am
T.A., just how exactly did I twist what you said? And the story of your son just gets more interesting. Did he file charges? Did he complain to his boss? Or was he so afraid of the illegals that he had to quit? I'm confused. Who was it that forced him to move to another state- the illegals or the company he worked for? Or was it both?
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:31 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
T.A., do you know who actually authored HB1804? It wasn't Randy the Great.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:28 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
Bud, nice attempt to twist what I said; but like everything else you've posted it is wrong. My son, a former West Pointer, did a good job and was seriously burned (as in physically burned with molten metal) by 2 illegals who wanted his job for a "family" member.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:27 am
Todd, Oh, so HB1804 is all about national security and nothing about tax dollars, free social services to illegals, and lost low income jobs? Just exactly how is Oklahoma going to secure the nation's borders with its laws? Go stick your head back in your Bircher materials, okay. HB1804 won't stop another terrorist attack- except maybe in Oklahoma.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:26 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
Oh stinkerpants, no it wasn't. Another lie on top of so many others. Good grief, when will it ever end?
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:22 am
Of course not Paula. Every male between the ages of 16 and 50 that isn't white claims they're discriminated against and targeted for being a minority in this country.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:21 am
Bud, Once again you missed the point illegal immigrant means any race of people not just Hispanic, the point being our borders are wide open & people like the hispanic in this article with his expired visa go unchecked. Again Bud just stick your head in the sand because if you can't see it then it wont hurt you right!!!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:20 am
Oklahoma's immigration law was written by racists. If you don't believe me, read about it here:

http://www.okgazette.com/p/12776/a/1454/Default.aspx?ReturnUrl=LwBEAGUAZgBhAHUAbAB0AC4AYQBzAHAAeAAslashAHAAPQAxADIANwAyADkA
stinkerpants, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:18 am
T.A., I'm not going to cry you a river. What did your son do that mafia style tactics had to be used to get him to quit?
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:17 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
Todd, Oh, boy! The twin towers argument. Just exactly how many of the terrorists were Hispanic? Oh yeah, it was zero! So Todd, once again, you miss the point entirely.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:14 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
Bud, cry me a river and then get over it. I haven't seen my oldest son in nearly two years because he had to move away to find a job after he was forced off a good job here using mafia styled tactics and replaced by an illegal. I hope the company that allowed that goes down the tubes after I.C.E. pays them a visit.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:14 am
I'm definitely not "imagining" the discrimination that my roommate faces all too often, and has faced for a long time. HB1804 isn't the cause of the discrimination, but it gives people the idea that it's okay to continue doing it and that it's supported by our government.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:13 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
T.A., it's called "comparing," not "validating" one wrong with another. Just taking care of the Ripple drinking illegal gang memebers is not going to fix the gang problem since most gang members are citizens. If you think HB1804 is going to fix gang problems, you're being naive. Gang probelms cross state, as well as national boundaries.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:11 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
I found another article (there are a million in favor of the illegal invasion) in the Oklahoman that whined about how Hispanic workers leaving the state now is making it difficult for roofing and building contractors to finish jobs and bid on new jobs. Now there are some jobs I'm sure no citizens want. But the roofing and building contractors don't want to hire citizens because then they'd have to pay a legitimate wage and taxes, which would actually force them into competing with legitimate businesses.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:06 am
Bud, I didn't miss the point at all! Your argument is ridiculous because times have changed or did you forget the twin towers??? We need to do everything possible to protect our country & our legal citizens . We have people in this country that are here illegally from all over the world & they pose a danger because we have no idea who they are or where they are, so Bud if you want to live in the past feel free, as for me I live in the real world & all this boils down to is somebody is going to lose cheap labor, a yard boy etc, the illegals do not need to be in this state or country.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:06 am
This is for T.A..... Oh yeah, you "got" me there.. Illegals get free social services just like low income citizens. Well, not exactly like low income citizens. Illegals get a lot less. One thing I agree with you on is that it is tiring for people to tell me how to think. You want to ignore that this law busts up families, go ahead. Or you want to ignore the economic consequences, go ahead. Or you want to ignore that legal Hispanics are feeling harassed, go ahead. But don't tell me that if I don't agree you I'm supporting some fantasy world invasion of the country.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:04 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
Since 1/4th of all incarcerated persons in the USA are illegals, once we weed out the illegals their will be a 1/4th drop in the billions spent yearly to keep them locked up, maybe more since 98% of drugs are smuggled over the mexican border.. The benefits of kicking illegals out of the USA are enormous...
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 10:04 am
Bud, why do you continue to attempt to validate one wrong with another wrong? Let's take care of the issue of the ripple drinking gang members that are here illegally. Then we can tackle the drinking gang members that are citizens.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:59 am
Barry, that offer is already in place and the pro-illegals are up in arms about it because they claim it unfairly targets Hispanics to send them to war.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:56 am
Sorry, that comment should have gone to Rufus.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:56 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
T.A., my tax dollars get redistributed all the time. I used to have this girl that worked for me part time and had a baby out of wedlock (native born, native american, if it matters). That made her eligible for the so-called "earned" income credit. I used to think that it would have been easier if I just wrote her a check every April 15th instead of sending it all in to the IRS to be redistributed. And do you also get tired of all your tax dollars going to those Ripple drinking gang members that are citizens? I do, but that's a whole other argument.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:55 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
Offer them the chance to serve our country in Iraq. After they serve their country grant them citizenship. If they don't want to serve their country, ship them back to Mexico.
Barry, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:52 am
The next thing we'll hear from the Oklahoman is that the percentage of crimes are down but with a disclaimer that the numbers shouldn't be taken literally because they don't reflect the drop in immigration. This rag is getting so good at twisting the truth to suit its agenda.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:49 am
correction "shouldn't be here"
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:43 am
Amen T.A., Bud I'm retired from my first career and almost retired from my 2nd one, all Legally. I'm also sick of my legally earned tax dollars going to some ripple drinking, crack smoking illegal gang member who should be here in the first place.
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:42 am
What at least you finally admitted one thing Bud. First we were told we should feel guilty because all these illegals just wanted to come here and make a living for their families and that they weren’t really hurting us because they only took jobs citizens didn’t want. When we didn't fall for those lies we were told we should feel afraid of the impact it was going to have on our economy if they were suddenly forced out. But we didn’t fall for that lie either so now we're being told that we should feel guilty about the impact HB-1804 is having on legal citizens of Hispanic background. I’m so tired of being told how I should feel by people who continually use lies to support this invasion. For your information I don't need "free health care" or "welfare", and I'm retired with a good legally earned income. I'm just tired of paying for them to get "free health care" and "welfare" which you just admitted they were getting.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:27 am
Bud, illegals are a blight on Oklahoma in to many ways to list without writing a novel. It's nice for you to have liberal notions of redistributing my tax dollars out of my wallet to support this noble cause, but you could join the peace corp and go save the world without my money.
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:24 am
T.A., the "those who support the illegal invasion of this country" line is getting old. Just because someone is against one thing doesn't mean they support another. This is almost as stupid as the ad hominem argument that keeps popping up stating that someone who opposes HB1804 "hust have a dog in the hunt," i.e., meaning they must either be illegal themselves, or harboring someone illegal. Using the same logic, since it seems that the ones profiting from illegals are businesses that exploit their labor, and the ones hurting the most from illegals are low income, all you posting here in support of HB1804 must be low income. That would be your "dog in the hunt"- these illegals are taking away your free health care, welfare, or job picking up trash.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:21 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
I know several Hispanics that are here legally and none of them have said a word about being harassed or single out because of their face. This is just another false claim by those who support the illegal invasion of this country.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:11 am
Todd, you missed the point entirely. Why should citizens, not illegals, have to give up their rights to protect the fatherland? That's what you and others are advocating- that someone who is Hispanic, and a citizen, shouldn't mind being harassed since it's all in the name of national security. This situation is really old hat. We had similar situations with the Chinese, the Italians, the Irish, etc., etc. They were going to ruin the country, take away our culture, use up resources that citizens (or should I say native born citizens) could use. It's tough to hear, I know, but low income citizens are just as much, if not more of, a drain on the economy as low income illegals. Paw Paw may be exaggerating to call them worthless citizens, but the reality is if you look at it from strictly an economic perspective low income citizens are worthless. Their only right to better treatment than illegals is their citizenship. And just like the son or daughter of an illegal that was born here, they had nothing whatsoever to do in making that happen.
Bud, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:04 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Bud
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 9:01 am
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 8:57 am
Pawpaw must work for the Oklahoman. He, like this rag of a paper has it all backwards. It's the illegals that routinely can't show up for work, don't know OUR language well enough to follow directions, don't know the difference between a plant and a weed, don't care what the difference is as long as payday comes immediately, want only cash so they don't have to pay any taxes, drive vehicles tagged from out of state because many of them are stolen, don't support the schools their kids are going to, use the emergency rooms at hospitals to avoid having paying for it, jam our jails for DUI, meth production, credit card fraud, bad checks, assault, burglary, rape, vandalism, etc., Watch next years crime statistics drop now that the illegals are fleeing the state. Thank you Randy Terrell!!
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 8:55 am
PawPaw, You must have a very large yard & a dog in the fight!!! I don't care what I have to go through to keep this country intact & as for anyone getting a cavity search done, that probably would not happen if they were not putting themselves into that situation & being somewhere doing something he shouldn't have, go stick your head back in the sand PawPaw you are a bitter old man with absolutely no common sense!!! We should do a study on people that hire illegals to mow their lawns.If anyone needs more education Pawpaw it's you !!!
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 20, 2007 at 8:49 am
Cry me a river Paw Paw.. Still supporting illegals and bashing the citizens of this great state I see. We're taking names and kicking a###!!!!! Illegals are at the top of the list!!
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 8:47 am
You know, this garbage about legal citizens being lazy and illegals being the only hard working people out there is about the most offensive argument there is to date. Not to mention it's a flat out lie.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 8:44 am
So I should care who mows my lawn? It's the job that gets done, not who does it that matters. If "low income" citizens can't show up regularly, don't know their own first language well enough to follow directions, don't know the difference between a plant and a weed, don't care what the difference is as long as payday comes immediately, wants only cash so they don't have to pay any taxes, drive vehicles tagged from out of state so they don't have to support the schools their kids are going to, use the emergency rooms at hospitals to avoid having health insurance to pay for, jam our jails for DUI, meth production, credit card fraud, bad checks, assault, burglary, vandalism, etc.,I'm supposed to prefer that to "undocumented workers?" Judging from the comments here, we certainly do need to spend more on education of our citizens! Why don't we do a Vanderbilt study by some out of state lawyer/author on the costs to the state of our virtually worthless low income "citizen" population? Wood shampoos for all the "Grapes of Wrath" Okies still left inside our borders. Remember California, where the Okies received such a welcome during the dustbowl days of mass exodus in search of ways to support those losers from Oklahoma? And if you aren't doing anything wrong, why should valerie and todd object to cavity searches? In the name of national security, of course.
Percy F., Ardmore - Dec 20, 2007 at 8:40 am
The Oklahoman can whine all it wants for these criminals. I'm glad to hear that HB 1804 is working.
T. A., Moore - Dec 20, 2007 at 8:36 am
"Perceived" discrimination and increased scrutiny is BS. It's real. And maybe when you've felt it yourself you'll understand. My best friend and roommate is Hispanic, who is NOT ILLEGAL, and he's been on the receiving end of everything from nasty comments about his heritage to appalling treatment from some of our own OKC law enforcement officers when he had done NOTHING WRONG! Even he will agree that illegal immigration is a problem. But the way it's being handled right now isn't a solution, it's creating more problems.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 20, 2007 at 8:28 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore BBJ
They should snatch that illegal up and give him a wood shampoo all the way back to the border!!
Rufus, spencer - Dec 20, 2007 at 8:04 am
Mister Bogata, We will never keep that money in this country unless you move the people they are sending it to over here. Haskell do you really think for one minute that Mexico is going to reimburse us for anything?? Why buy the cow if you get the milk free???? As Valerie said if you are not doing anything wrong then you have no problem but the fact is that most of the legals are harboring illegals. As for the guy that stayed because his visa was up his butt belongs back in Mexico. Do it right or don't do it at all.
Jimmy, Sandy Shores - Dec 20, 2007 at 8:04 am
As for the inconvenience felt by legal hispanic residents, it is the sacrifice you pay for keeping this country safe, just a millions of Americans have to deal with tighter airport security, and innocent people get searched for drugs in routine traffic stops. If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to hide?
valerie, cordell - Dec 20, 2007 at 7:51 am
Anyone have any idea how much money is being sent BACK to Mexico in remittances ? What if we could keep those wages in our country ???
mister, bogata - Dec 20, 2007 at 6:54 am
jason, finally without those mumbojumbo words, you have made some real sense. don't you folks think that the real reason the daily disappointment puts these articles in the newspaper is to put a burr on each of our saddles. why not send the government of mexico a bill to offset the cost. surely they could pay with all that extra oil money they have.
JH, deep red creek - Dec 20, 2007 at 3:42 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore JH
concur, money spent on education and health should be for the people who built this country. if their own country doesn't care about their education and health, is it our job to, and what countries are next, the world? have no problem with legal immagrants.
troy, edmond - Dec 20, 2007 at 3:34 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore troy
"THEY WERE JUST IN A BAD SITUATION AND NEEDED MONEY. THAT IS WHY THE ILLEGAL WITHDRAWL OF THE BANKS MONEY HAD TO HAPPEN. THE THEIF WAS A GOOD HARD WORKING PERSON WITH A FAMILY." lIKE THE MAN IN TULSA THAT CHOOSE NOT TO RETURN AFTER HIS VISA EXPIRED. HOW IS THAT HEADLINE ANY DIFFERENT? HE IS A CRIMINAL AND THE PERSON THAT INTERVIEWED HIM SHOULD BE ARRESTED FOR KNOWINGLY ASSISTING A CRIMINAL. THEY COULDN'T INTERVIEW A BANK ROBBER AND PRINT IT WITHOUT GETTING IN TROUBLE. WHY DOES THE NEWSPAPER KEEP PRINTING THIS TYPE OF NONSENSE? THEY SHOULD FEEL THE HEAT, THEY ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONGGGGGGGGG! I AM GOING TO STOP MY SUBSCRIPTION TO THIS BIAS PROPOGANDA OUTLET THEY CALL THE OKLAHOMAN. THEY TRY TO MAKE IT SO HEARTBREAKING.
Justin, Norman - Dec 20, 2007 at 2:33 am
If they are here illegally, they SHOULD "feel the heat of enforcement" - just as any of us would from the legal apparatus of our judicial institutions were we in violation of our democracy's laws. What I can't understand is this constant chatter about the "economic" impact of sending illegals back to where they belong (in their own countries): can you imagine if a number of employers fretted in public about the "economic impact" of ending segregation in restaurants as these Chamber of Commerce folks have over this sensible law? Well, in fact, they DID back in the 1960's...the Chamber of Commerce people have loyalty only to the dollar of this or any given day, and are largely made up of the absolute scum of the earth in any given era.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 20, 2007 at 1:54 am
Here we go again. The center says it amounts to a net cost of about 10 billion dollars which is a relatively small amount.. a small amount ? how stupid!!! 10 billion put into education, environment, intrastructure.. i.e. bridges etc. how dare she say "small". This is absolutely the stupidest argument I have seen in this country in a long time. Illegals are trying to tell us how we will run our country.. do you HEAR that? They have no say whatsoever. NONE. Think tanks can go find another topic to play with. They keep stirring the waters. Two legislators are going to try to introduce some garbage next session and the DOK treats it like it's going to be a massive reform.. TWO.. only TWO... it has a snowballs chance in .... to go anywhere but back to their districts when election time comes again.. and they will be gone..
Mike, Oklahoma City - Dec 20, 2007 at 1:33 am
Report as inappropriate or
Ignore Mike

News Photo Galleriesview all