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David Stanley Ford

Hispanics feeling heat of enforcement
Hispanics feeling heat of enforcement

By Devona Walker    Comments Comment on this article153
Published: December 20, 2007

Regardless of citizenship status, Hispanics say they are being hurt by the ongoing immigration debate. In contrast, a recent study by the Congressional Budget Office reports that local and state governments are uniformly incurring costs due to the presence of undocumented immigrants.

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By the Numbers
300,000: Number deported in 2007

84 percent: Rise in deportations over 2002

900 percent: Rise in workplace raids between 2002 and 2007.

7 to 8 million: Estimated number of undocumented workers in the U.S.

1,562: Number of immigration bills introduced around the country as of last month.

244: Number of those bills that were enacted.

$1.6 billion: Budget in 2002 for patrolling the U.S.-Mexico border.

$9 billion: Estimated cost of building a fence along the southwest corridor of the U.S.

$1,700: Cost per arrest along the border, as of 2002.

480,000 to 660,000: Estimated number of illegal immigrants settling in the U.S. between 1990 and 2004.

Sources: Pew Hispanic Center, National Conference of State Legislatures, National Immigration Forum.


More changes in Oklahoma
While immigration continues to poll as a priority for many Oklahoma voters, the state's current immigration law, House Bill 1804, may change during the upcoming legislative season.

Sen. Harry Coates, R-Seminole, has vowed to introduce legislation to repeal portions of HB 1804. Rep. Shane Jett, R-Tecumseh, plans to introduce a companion bill for a program similar to a statewide temporary worker program, softening the blow of the enforcement-heavy HB 1804.

On the other side, Rep. Randy Terrill, R-Moore, plans to introduce what he calls the "Son of HB 1804” to strengthen immigration enforcement.

Coates says HB 1804 hampers economic growth and is causing a mass exodus of legal workers.

"The Hispanic family unit is such that they are not going to turn away a family member. Rather than subject themselves to the problems this immigration legislation has caused, they are pulling up stakes,” Coates said. "We are seeing a mass exodus of not just illegal immigrants but those that are fully documented.”

Oklahoma is home to thousands of families where one or two members are documented while other members of that same family are not.

"Since we are at full employment in Oklahoma, even when you lose a small number of workers, those jobs can't be filled. So companies are scaling back,” Coates said. "Our gross products are going to be affected, just because we do not have an adequate labor force.”

This stress has already begun to percolate into the retail and service sectors, said Guillermo Rojas, a Tulsa restaurateur.

"They don't go to buy cars. They are returning the cars. It's hurting the dealership, the salesman, and the restaurants. They don't sell the car, and then they don't come to spend money at the restaurant,” Rojas said. "The reality is, this is not only affecting illegal residents.”

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The Pew Hispanic Center, a nonprofit national research group, reports that more than half of Hispanics recently surveyed fear they, their family or close friends might be deported. About two-thirds say Congress' failure to pass comprehensive immigration reform has made their lives more difficult. They reported increased difficulties in finding housing and work and less access to public services, increased fears over traveling abroad, and a higher likelihood of being asked to produce documents to prove their immigration status.

"A number of our analyses do include citizens and noncitizens. There has been some kind of spillover to citizens. They are feeling some of the same negative effects from the recent changes,” said the report's co-author, Gretchen Livingston, who is a research associate at Pew.

Some feelings might be related to the experiences of family members who are illegal immigrants, but they might also be a byproduct of perceived discrimination and increased scrutiny about their own individual status, Livingston said.

"What is clear is that it is affecting Hispanics regardless of their immigration status,” she added.

For non-Hispanics, about 45 percent approve of local law enforcement taking an active role in immigration enforcement. About 51 percent of non-Hispanics approve of increased worksite enforcement. By the largest margin of all, some 85 percent of non-Hispanics approve of checking immigration status when applying for a driver's license.

Congress tried twice unsuccessfully to pass immigration reform. Subsequent to those failures there has been increased activity by federal, state and local governments. Numerous states including Oklahoma have pushed for statewide immigration enforcement statutes.

What's the fiscal burden?
The Congressional Budget Office recently studied the fiscal impact of unauthorized immigrants on state and local governments. It found tax revenues generated from unauthorized residents do not offset the cost of services. Nor does the federal government adequately reimburse local governments for those additional costs.

It also reports that constitutionally many states have difficulty avoiding those costs. In most states unauthorized immigrants cost states less than 5 percent of the cost to provide citizens those same services. In terms of fiscal deficits, the largest tax burden has been in education, health care and police and fire services.

"We, in the public debate, have ignored those costs for too long,” said Carol Swain, a Vanderbilt University Law professor and author. Swain said illegal immigrants strain low-income workers and criticized their advocates for demonizing dissent. Beyond the highly politicized debate, she says people are paying the price.

In 2004, the Center for Immigration Studies, an anti-illegal immigration think tank, estimated that the net national impact of illegal immigration to be about $10 billion, roughly 0.09 percent of the annual budget at the time — a relatively low number.

What concerns Swain , as well as other critics of illegal immigration is that the benefits of illegal immigration are enjoyed by one group, primarily the businesses that employ them and consumers that use their services. However, the costs are endured by other groups — low-income workers who compete for those jobs and taxpayers.

"It's not costless to the nation. It's not simply a win-win, like immigration advocates would like to portray it,” Swain said.

The worst hit is native citizens, then law-abiding immigrants, she said.

"Those seeking to come to this country legally but cannot because all the attention is focused on one group,” Swain said. "What about the immigrants that are here legally and waiting for green cards and cannot (get them) because the system is clogged up with illegal immigration?”

Poverty does not justify the contradictions, she said.

How things changed here
More than 10 million undocumented immigrants have been added to our population since the 1990s.

That number includes a Tulsa landscaper who moved to the state five years ago for work. He came with a visa, but it expired. He chose not to return to Mexico.

In the last four months, he has watched relatives leave — including a brother who left for Texas and a cousin who moved to Kansas. He has stopped driving, fearing police will deport him during a traffic stop. Now, his life consists of only work. Even there, he says, he is afraid.

"I'm very scared of the law,” he said. "... I have no family here anymore; so many friends are leaving the state because they are afraid. I think they look for Hispanic people.”

"They look at our faces, and they try to see if we are Hispanic, and they are stopping us because of that,” he added.

Also in Tulsa is Antonio Perez, a well-established Hispanic businessman. He owns four grocery stores, and is seeing a significant downturn in business due to House Bill 1804. He says there has been a 30 percent decline in sales, and he is having difficulties keeping workers.

"I'm very worried about the economic impact of HB 1804,” he said. "It's only been a month, and it's already hurting us.”

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Interesting that every reference I have access to shows the term spelled ad hominem rather than ad hominen, however I can admit that I've never studied Latin and therefore am only going by the usage I've encountered in my 34 years. I'm sure you will return to your ad hominem/hominen tactics and use the fact that I don't know Latin to bash my intelligence level, but feel free to do that, as it only proves my point. I would think that a scholar such as yourself would be familiar with that terminology which you are using to call me out as a racist, but you obviously don't recognize the commonly used meaning of it, so why should one trust that you know Latin? I don't see where anyone has disproven anything I've said, only argued with what I've said. I haven't been trying to squirm away from anything, nor have I grown increasingly frustrated. In fact, I find you rather amusing. "When the dust settles and the pages of history are written, it will not be the angry defenders of intolerance who have made the difference. That reward will go to those who dared to step outside the safety of their privacy in order to expose and rout the prevailing prejudices."
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 23, 2007 at 7:30 pm
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First things first, from my Collins Latin Concise Dictionary: "Argumentum ad hominen, (lit: argument according to the person: Logic) 1...." The definition is not necessary, I'm quoting it only to show that the false little [sic] Paula so cutely inserted there is as phony as she is. Second, I indeed urge any and all interested to go back and re-read through the posts. One will see an ax-grinder with ulterior motives become increasingly frustrated with her inability to get away with half-truths, distortions, phony "facts", non-stop evasions away from issues on point, and outright falsehoods. As this poster has been unable to squirm away from the fact that at every point of the discussion she has been proven wrong, or shown that what she posted in "reply" was superfluous to the topic at hand, she has grown increasingly nasty. And oh, yeah, this poster thinks it's just jim-dandy to indulge in racial slurs. That pretty much covers it as far as this "debate" is concerned, and one and all are welcome to retrace its steps.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 22, 2007 at 10:25 pm
Those who have the desire (and time) to go back and read the posts from the beginning can easily see that the "argumentum ad hominen" [sic] began long ago, and not by myself. Those who have used it here have failed to recognize it in themselves and have projected it upon others.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 22, 2007 at 9:48 pm
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and gayson..you and doofus should go on a date. maybe add randy for a third...since i am his largest campaign contributer im sure i can get it arranged.
Randy, Moore - Dec 22, 2007 at 4:52 pm
and jason...what is your crowd? the right wing church freaks? the do nothing for society group? the sit around and post all day group? you belong in randy's group...which is all above and even more pathetic? jason been to a bar lately? been to a sporting event? gone on a date with a woman lately? did you go to work lately? how about pay some taxes jason....your no better than the illegals...but at least they paid taxes and generated revenues..something you can not seem to do.
Randy, Moore - Dec 22, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Argumentum ad hominen is always the last resort of those who have essentially conceded the argument, and have nothing left to say. With the pro-illegal alien apologist crowd, the onset of this stage of the debate is usually sooner than later, as is the case here.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 22, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Yet more ridiculous accusations from someone who has low self-esteem and no reading comprehension skills.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 22, 2007 at 9:24 am
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Why have none of the candidates for President take a stand on the illegal immigration issue?
JH, deep red creek - Dec 21, 2007 at 8:55 pm
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You know what they say about figures, but which ever there are still to many.
JH, deep red creek - Dec 21, 2007 at 7:18 pm
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Rufus, the facts in your post stand unrefuted, despite yet more burbling silliness from yet another pro-illegal alien apologist. Well done.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 21, 2007 at 6:49 pm
No Rufus, you didn't say 81% of Hispanics were illegal, but if you read what I said (gee, there seems to be a real problem with people reading what I said) in response to your comment of "they aren't suppose [sic] to be here." ________ "Why are Hispanics not supposed to be here? It sounds to me like you are taking the meaning of 81% of illegals being Hispanic (still unsourced, and statistics like that are always based on estimates, not real numbers) and twisting it around to 81% of Hispanics being illegal. I don't think that's the way it works." I was providing clarification, lest anyone use your comments to turn the statistic around, since you yourself weren't clear about what you meant. And pay no attention to the poster who thinks he knows me. He's getting desperate in his attempts to shut me up. Funny, since he's the one who was screaming so loud that he's tired of being told to "shut up if you don't agree with me" which is exactly what he's trying to do to me. Since he can't do it with his flimsy rebuttals he's now resorting to name-calling and word twisting. The transparency of his MO is astounding.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:52 pm
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Also, Rufus, Paula thinks its cute to use racial slurs, then deny she knew it was a slur - or refuse to admit it. Her posts are really a trademark example of the ugly side of the anonymous internet poster.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Rufus, you're wasting your time with that one: quote her some facts and she responds with turgid non sequiturs, airy piffle, and half-truths - and reams and reams of it. Point out a specific fact and instead of refuting it, she just spews PC-speak and absurd cliches. She obviously has some kind of self-interested ax to grind here, and refuses to deal with specific issues, instead preferring the inanity of trite sound bites.
Jason, Edmond - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:29 pm
paula, I said 81% of illegals are hispanic, not 81% of hispanics are illegal.. I think the popular number is 40% of all hispanics in this country are here illegally, give or take. if we were to follow the lead of the open borders advocates, perhaps law enforcement should no longer refer to inebriated drivers as “drunk drivers” but instead should call them "sobriety challenged motorists." We then referred to murderers as "unauthorized executioners" and suggested that rapists might be henceforth known as "over-eager suitors!" Burglars would become "uninvited house guests" and bank robbers would be called "unauthorized funds withdrawers!" You get the picture. We can't even tell who these people are, they could be anyone. the 19 terrorists involved in the 9/11 attacks were said to have used 261 different identities in total to mask their movements and whereabouts...
Rufus, spencer - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Again, that still doesn't equate to 81% of Hispanics being illegal. Even on the highest end of your estimates, less than half of Hispanics are illegal. Some communities will probably have more than others. But that still doesn't explain your statement of "I'm sure the law is going to affect hispanic communties because they are not suppose to be here in this country." You're making it sound like no one in those Hispanic communities should be here, when at least 62% of them and possibly as many as 83% of them have gone through the proper channels and are not breaking any laws by residing in the United States.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:17 pm
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it's estimated those census figures are incorrect by millions since many illegals are never counted(example, in sanctuary cities like LA and Dallas officials are not allowed to ask about citizenship status). there are an estimated 12 to 20 million depending on who stat's you look at. Example, the hispanic community in Guymon is over half illegals, would that not cut their numbers in half thus affecting their communites.??
Rufus, spencer - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:06 pm
"I'm sure the law is going to affect hispanic communties because they are not suppose to be here in this country." _____ Why are Hispanics not supposed to be here? It sounds to me like you are taking the meaning of 81% of illegals being Hispanic (still unsourced, and statistics like that are always based on estimates, not real numbers) and twisting it around to 81% of Hispanics being illegal. I don't think that's the way it works. According to the US Census Bureau, there are 8.7 million illegal immigrants in the US. If 81% of them are Hispanic, that would make the number 7.047 million illegal Hispanics. There are 42.7 million Hispanics total (again, US Census Bureau numbers) so by those numbers, about 16.5% of Hispanics are illegal. That means 83.5% are legal.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 21, 2007 at 3:00 pm
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Paula & Bud, you both really deserve an A for effort, but I feel you won't make much headway with this group of posters. I appreciated your thoughts, so thanks for posting them. I'd only like to add that there isn't much difference in the greed of the HB 1804 opponents and the greed of the HB 1804 advocates. One gains from cheap labor & the other from saving their all-mighty tax dollars.
Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Surely a cop would never abuse their authority..(sarcasm) Nothing new about that. With 81% of illegals being hispanic I'm sure the law is going to affect hispanic communties because they are not suppose to be here in this country. Citizens can be prosecuted for "KNOWINGLY" hiring, transporting, harboring illegals, they should be, they are part of the problem. When the smoke clears and all of them are out of Oklahoma the state will see massive benefits in taxes saved. I read the latest economic report this morning for Oklahoma, we are ahead of the national average in Ecomomic growth already...
Rufus, spencer - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Rufus, let me restate a previous post since you also seem to have missed it. "I never said the bill itself was discriminatory. That was another commenter. But many people take these new laws as the okay to openly discriminate against Hispanic people, regardless of their immigration status. You don't know when you see someone in the grocery store or the bank or wherever if they are illegal, or legal, or citizens, even! If you hear someone speaking Spanish or listening to Latin music, you don't know if they only speak Spanish or if they are bilingual. And if you've read everything I've said, you'll see where I noted that I don't blame this bill solely for the discrimination, but I do believe it's given people the impression that it's okay to make certain assumptions, and comments, and take certain actions, against an entire culture."
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:25 pm
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ohhh Doofus in spencer...go dig a ditch
Randy, Moore - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:24 pm
yeah gayson is up. so gayson what were you doing up at 2am? working on your run for governor? still using your 2 dollar words. you should change your name to Thesuarus. hey were getting together later for the bowl game and some beers. you know...supporting the businesses...raiseing tax dollars.... come on fella..ill buy you some beers and a dinner... lets truely see who garners the pity.
Randy, Moore - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:23 pm
The conversations I've participated in here began in reference to the impact HB 1804 has had on people who are here legally. I stated early in the conversations, and more than once since, that I am not pro-illegal alien, and your insistence upon referring to me as such proves that you a) either have not read or have not comprehended my posts and b) refuse to accept anything but your own beliefs and refuse to admit that you may have been wrong in your original assessment. This is further reinforced by the fact that even though I've addressed your ridiculous accusations you continue to ignore them, very much like a child on the playground with his fingers as far inside his ear canals as they'll go sing-songing, "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU." Had I known that these were your tactics I would never have engaged in discussion with you. You exhibit typical internet troll behavior. I prefer to debate with people who don't have to degrade others to build their argument. You do seem to have a grasp on English and grammar and it gives you the appearance of being intelligent, but it's too bad you don't aspire to utilize that intelligence for anything more than mud-slinging. That's a shameful waste of resources.
BBJ, Midwest City - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:22 pm
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I think I've established the HB 1804 contains not one iota of racism in it. I've asked and asked and asked for ANY PRO-ILLEGAL to quote ANY part of the law that is racist. No one has been able to because they can't. It's a color blind law.
Rufus, spencer - Dec 21, 2007 at 2:06 pm

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